![2015-08-29-1440859572-2171847-wall_street_sign[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Qh3BILx.jpg "2015-08-29-1440859572-2171847-wall_street_sign[1].jpg")
Explain to my why the "speculation tax" proposed by Bernie Sanders won't work to provide free college for everyone.
>>66293944
Because of math and reality.
Kill yourself.
>>66293944
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/22/bernie-sanders-doesnt-have-a-case-for-a-financial-transactions-tax-it-would-lose-money/#4ad784375974
It's been tried before, and failed miserably.
>>66293944
Knowing Bernie's grasp of economics, his version of s speculation tax would be to tax anyone that speculates whether or not he knows what he's talking about.
>>66293944
Because they tried it in Sweden and all the asshole banks packed up and fucked off. Shit like this might have worked in the 1930s when they had no option but to stay but it's a global market now and banks dont' give a fuck - they'll just move the majority of their operations to London or Shanghai if you try and fuck with them.
>>66294139
Forbes is biased
>>66294018
doesn't explain it
>>66294264
Is Sweden the USA? Sweden has many problems of its own
>>66294472
Take your pick
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/bernie-sanders-s-financial-transaction-tax-won-t-raise-much-revenue-he-thinks
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b9b40fee-9236-11e2-851f-00144feabdc0.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-explains-why-a-european-financial-transaction-tax-wont-work-2011-9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_financial_transaction_tax
>>66294472
>Is Sweden the USA? Sweden has many problems of its own
What's your point?
If you tell the banks you're going to cut into their profits by stopping them gambling, they WILL just move their operations elsewhere, depriving you of the tax they create.
>>66294018
FPBP all Sanders supporters will kill themselves in 2 weeks
>>66293944
Lower trade volumes, trading operations moved overseas, larger permanent market price inefficiencies, wider market spreads, fucking the massive swathe of soon-to-be boomer retirees in the ass, long-termism, etc. Need I say more?
>>66293944
Speculation is a huge part of the American economy. If you tax the hell out of it then you'll just end up with capital flight. Also, who is to decide what is "speculation" and what is not.
>>66294018
Such argument
>>66297236
According to burnout's plan, it's anyone who buys or sells a security no matter the reason.
>>66293944
It would work but the Jews would lose some money so it will never be implemented
>>66294264
>Because they tried it in Sweden and all the asshole banks packed up and fucked off.
>financial bubble speculators leave country
>a bad thing
I wish I had a facepalm macro.
>>66297384
So he's just looking to tax anybody with a small savings outside of $'s?
Serenity now!
>>66293944
>free
>no cost
>null value
>without trade-off, compromise
>un-real
Its ultimately fantasy, OP -- no matter how hard the country votes.
>>66297493
The problem is that any financial risk you take can be considered "speculation". It's a stealth tax on capital movement of any kind.
>>66297557
Pretty much. It'd also tax bone-fide hedgers as well which is tippity-top kek.
>>66297649
If that lowers the amount of trades it's a good thing.
It's only a minor tax, the major part is payroll
lelele tax le rich wallstreet types... a bit
>>66297901
I suppose if you want to see your economy crash to hell and you can go back to living off the land.
>>66294472
Funny how you liberals are always comparing Sweden to the US when it comes to programs you want but ignore the distinction when it comes to their failures.
>>66297557
The ultimate irony is that this tax will destroy those same middle class families he claims to support. The speculation tax will kill their 401ks and any other small investments they might have made.
>>66297580
I think you mean how hard the college millennials and parasites vote. You only need 51% to win presidency, not 100%
>>66298086
LIBERALS BTFO AND ON SUICIDE WATCH
>>66297901
Which results in less liquidity, higher volatility, lower capital gains tax collection, and lower market competiveness.
>>66293944
Stealing is wrong.
You want a college education, you pay for it.
>>66297901
What? How? What's the optimal number of trades?
You have no idea what you are talking about.
>>66298023
Last time I checked the world economy crashed thanks to your precious trading.
>>66298418
What'd you check? Your ass?
>>66298518
Great argument.
>>66298562
Ironic.
It would be the devastation of millions of American's 401k and retirement plans.
A hefty tax on investments would mean less investing.
>>66298418
Not because of trading.
People valued subprime securities incorrectly. This triggered a financial liquidity crisis which propagated to many European governments that had borrowed too much and struggled to serve their debt (note that those governments would have been in trouble regardless of whether the trigger was a subprime crisis, an emerging market stock crisis, a large-scale 9/11 terrorist attack, an earthquake in Japan, etc.)
Incidentally, the securities involved were non-liquid securities that were not traded on exchanges.
>>66294139
>failed miserably
then why isn't Bernie our meme candidate?
>>66298418
No, it crashed because the government decided it wanted the loosest lending standards possible and mobs of people started using that credit to binge shop like idiots. The same people that use credit to binge shop borrow to pay for college when it's absurdly clear that the price is unbelievably high. Here's an idea dumbass, if college is overpriced, stop pumping credit money into it for the sake of buying votes from the idiots.
>>66298740
>the entire world economy crashed solely because a bunch of Americans bought houses they couldn't afford
Yep, there is definitely no systemic problem in the financial system. We all know markets can never fail (theoretically).
>>66299074
You really don't know anything about financial markets or the global financial crisis do you? America didn't 'crash' the entire world. The Eurozone for example crashed due to its own irresponsible borrowing both on the sovereign and household side.
>>66299074
The US is the dominant economy. If they are in a recession the rest of the world will follow, whichever way the financial system is designed, because the American consumer restricts their spending.
And it's not their fault that foreign governments failed. The PIIGS debt crisis was their own fault. Nothing to do with subprime. That was just the trigger.
Markets are actually quite efficient. They're very quick to propagate information. Sometimes it's good news, sometimes it's bad news.
>>66299074
The point I was making is that any business, whether it's private or publicly traded is technically speculation. If you wanted to gamble at a casino it's speculation. If he taxed securities only, then people will just speculate in other assets that aren't securities. The crash was more the fault of the government and debtors as it was speculators.
>>66299262
>>66299264
>mixing up Financial crisis and Euro crisis
>Markets are actually quite efficient. They're very quick to propagate information.
Which isn't the case in financial markets. They access the same macroeconomic information and interpret them in the same way, leading to herding behavior.
>>66299752
If people interpret the same interpretation in the same way it *does* suggest markets are efficient.
Otherwise they would clearly be irrational.
I'm not confusing the two crisis. One was a trigger for the other. But the euro debt crisis would have happened regardless.
>>66293944
because speculation is not illegal why should it get taxed more?
>>66299942
Herding behavior destroys market efficiency because it leads to the self-enforcing overshooting of prices.
>>66300408
Market efficiency is about assets reflecting their true value (which we can only know post-hoc).
Overshooting is not caused by herding behavior. Because it takes a single leveraged trader to correct any valuation error.
Overshooting is caused by different rates of adjustment of exogenous factors determining an asset's value.
>>66299752
>the global financial crisis is unrelated to the European debt crisis
Cute.
Also, I suggest you read pic related. Markets propagate information immediately and often times before an event is suspected of occurring otherwise an arbitrage opportunity would exist and would be exploited until it no longer does exist.
>>66300751
>Because it takes a single leveraged trader to correct any valuation error.
A single trader can't correct the entire market dynamic. That there is a valuation error is not clear to people when prices rise. It is rational to jump on the market trend because you will make profits that way.
>>66293944
Because it is suppose to limit harmful speculation, and because even with volume of transactions staying on the same level (which would defeat the purpose of the tax in the first place) it wouldn't be enough.
>>66301983
*supposed
>>66301783
>A single trader can't correct the entire market dynamic.
Yeah, a single trader can. It's called arbitrage. That's primarily what HFT's engage in.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2012/10/16/a-tax-to-kill-high-frequency-trading/#4a5430a72861
>>66302082
And it's empirically wrong. For instance arbitrage didn't prevent the Brazilian currency from appreciating against the Dollar even tough Brazilian inflation was much higher than in the US.
>>66303173
Sorry, inflation=/=forex rates.
>>66303990
That higher inflation will lead to depreciation of a country's currency should be clear.
>>66304790
On the ground inflation is different from exchange prices. There remains a real world shipping cost and other expenses that we don't see that can influence prices. Orange prices in Florida are much different than orange prices in Alaska.
>>66304790
Again, inflation does not directly impact the exchange rate of a currency pair. Exchange rates are affected by the overall health of the economies (relative to one another), the difference in interest rates, and capital flows (both currency hedging and foreign purchases/sales or investment). About all that can be said about inflation as it relates to exchange rates is that it may lead people to believe there may be a change in interest rates.
Also, inflation is not the depreciation of a country's currency, it is an increase in broad consumer good prices.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/business/argument-for-financial-transaction-tax-regains-footing.html?_r=0
>>66306711
Inflation differences lead to trade imbalances. And trade imbalances are mostly corrected by exchange rate adjustments.
>>66307905
Except it doesn't. I'm not sure if you're really grasping my point, inflation exists independent of exchange rates.
>>66293944
Because it will either create exempt entities like in UK, that will lead to contracts for difference (under the table derivatives) or will kill the liquidity. If I will have to pay transaction tax, I will not provide market at below the tax rate, thus liquidity will dry up. So you will have a lot less taxable transactions and much lower liquidity. In general, taxes should be paid on profits, not on transactions. It's also possible consumer rates for credit will go up, because all the securitizations will just charge more to the consumer if its possible or the market will just go away. If banks will be taxed on every transaction, some securitizations will be impossible, and ETFs and mutual funds will lose that transaction tax, thus even bigger hole in retirement savings. Good luck taxing transactions in a world that has a lot of transactions, because transactions are cheap. Lets make them expensive, and see what happens. Fucking morons.
>>66293944
From wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_transaction_tax
>In 2011 there were 40 countries that made use of FTT, together raising $38 billion (€29bn).[6][7]
Bernie says he is going to make $300 billion/year while the rest of the world combined has managed to pull only $38B/year combined. The number is out of this world. Nowhere has anyone done something on this scale so it is officially unexplored territory, it is impossible to know how effective it will be or what the side effects of it will be.
>>66308280
Of course inflation differences lead to trade imbalances. The Euro crisis alone proves this perfectly.
>>66308508
You know... I was going to type out a response but the things you're spewing are just painfully inane. I think I'm done here.
>>66308842
Your arguments were weak from the beginning.
If the rich leave under Bernie we will be better off.
If the rich stays under Bernie we will be better off.
You people defending the establishment of financial powers because you don't know what our country would be like without them forget American history where we have always been better off without them. you the prime examples of the robots who just regurgitate what they hear. In order to be rich the wealthiest 1% don't give anyone a good deal they MANIPULATE AND DESTROY THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND ECONOMY TO ACHIEVE THAT WEALTH.
READ A BOOK!
>>66309474
>MANIPULATE AND DESTROY THE POLITICAL SYSTEM
If you want the financial sector out of your political system the last thing you want to do is make the political system reliant on the steady income of speculation tax. With this tax you only further entangle Wall Street and the Capitol Hill together. Isn't this the complete opposite of what you wanted?
