Liberals love to point out how trans women, for example, have female brains as is supported by pretty much every study out there. There's even brain scans out there that show that trans women have brain scans that match cis women but not men, gay or straight. (see: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564 ) Sure, that seems realistic, far stranger abnormalities than inconsistent gender development across the body have been found, like people growing 6 fingers or even conjoined twins.
What they don't realize, is that it shatters their "gender equality" argument completely. So, female brains are so different from male brains that just living in a male body causes pain up to suicidal levels? That's a pretty good argument against females being put in the same roles as males. If trans females hate living in a male role, doesn't it show that cis females should stop trying to get the same roles as males, because it will just make them less happy the more they push it? If trans females live best in a female role, than so do cis females, with even higher probability! Try to find scientific evidence as rigorous as the kind that shows that trans females have female brains, to show that females have the same brain as males. You can't do it, because it's just not true. There's lots of scientific evidence in favor of trans females having different brain structures (img: (a) is cis man, (b) cis woman, (c) is gay man, (d) is MtF woman) but none in favor of females having the same brains as males.
TL;DR: feminists, by signing on for trans rights/gender dysphoria, you've just conceded your point of genders being equal
>female brains
are they genetically female?
>>66057183
Learn the difference between genotype and phenotype? One is a molecule, the other is the whole human body, including the brain, the only part that is conscious and matters at all in the ethical sense.
>feminists, by signing on for trans rights/gender dysphoria, you've just conceded your point of genders being equal
Why do you think so many feminists are against trannies being considered "women". They know that the trans thing fucks them
>>66057183
Brain is independent of the XY chromosomes it seems.
>>66057308
Not independent in the statistical sense, in 99% of cases if the chromosomes are male the brain is male. It's only in the 1% that the abstraction fails.
>>66057183
no.
also leftists recently said that there is so such thing as male and female brain.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/04/male-female-brains-same-but-people-all-different
stop spreading lies and disinformation.
>>66057138
>>66057611
You don't argue abstractions when the abstraction is known to fail. It's like telling an amputee "humans are defined as bipedal mammals!" and thinking their leg will grow back.
what people should be talking about is MTF's autogynephilia. it's a sexual attraction toward imagining yourself as female. you can even read about it on /lgbt/.
these people are sick and fetishise the thought of being female to the point of committing emotional blackmail on society by threatening to kill themselves or harm themselves unless we facilitate their demands.
they are also a lot of the time "lesbian", so being men they are straight. they often pursue lesbian women specifically and when get turned down they cry transphobia.
let's not forget the vast majority of MTFs still have their penises but still expect lesbians to have sex with them.
>>66057789
Did you even read a single one of the brain studies? Even if you're some great genius and somehow know all the biologists are wrong, the brain is still a person and the body is still unthinking property. Saying the sentient being should bend their will to unthinking cells no different from those of a monkey is utter madness.
>>66057907
We see the brain acting differently in other mental disorders such as depression.
Seeing the brain act differently with this disorder is nothing special.
>>66057298
Makes sense. Of course, by doing that, they have to ignore every single study of gender brain differences out there and utterly separate themselves from science.
>they have to ignore every single study of gender brain differences out there and utterly separate themselves from science.
You mean the "science" created by the White male patriarchy?
>>66058000
The difference is, for trans people it's been shown by almost all studies that just changing their body can fix whatever problems they have. Like if someone is poor, they can fix their problems by working and earning a better life for themselves, and it would be stupid to say that they have to change their brain to like being poor. Meanwhile the ones with genuine mental problems can't ever fix them by changing the external world. If your unhappiness is due to solvable external conditions, it's not a mental problem, otherwise, it is.
>Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers.
baloney, of course it would
>>66057138
OP this is your argument with all the faf removed:
>gender is a construct
>genders need to be recognized
that in itself is a contradiction.
but desu senpai desu, you're either born with a cock or a vag. there's no middle ground.
>>66058093
>You mean the "science" created by the jews?
FTFY
>>66058287
I'm a nice person, I don't say this often, but you are an utter moron without middle school reading comprehension. Re-read my post, and you will see that I explain gender differences as biological differences in the brain backed up by peer-reviewed scientific studies.
>>66058245
But the suicide rate after the sex change is the same as before the sex change.
Doesn't seem like it can solve shit m8.
Op is saying MTF have the same brains as Females and vice versa and that genitals are irrelevant, and that gender roles reinforce this paradigm
Nice
>>66057138
Most actual trannies do accept gender differences.
Actual trannies are demonized in the sjw community.
>>66057138
Daily reminder that you would have to be seriously retarded or a straight up nigger not to realize that cultural marxists essentially took the opposite meaning from that study that what the study concluded
>>66058514
I read it, but because someone sees shapes in an MRI machines doesn't mean they know anything about the functionality it performs. Let alone if it's a side affect of something else going on. your "biological differences in the brain backed up by peer-reviewed scientific studies" is speculation at best.
" Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not """""""""""""""seem""""""""""""""" to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers "
ambiguous and uncertain conclusion anyway
>>66058019
It is either that, or they hate trannies because they see it as men invading women's spaces by infiltrating.
>>66058515
I hope you're not referring to the study that uses cis controls for measuring transgender suicide rate. That's like saying, people treated for cancer are still 10x more likely to die than cancer-free people, so we should give up cancer treatment. See this: http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/about/news/2015/june/study_finds_that_risk_of_suicide_in_transgender_community_may_be_reduced_by_changing_policy_and_societal_factors_.html - the farther along people are in their transition, the lower their suicide rate becomes.
>>66058515
>>66059068
And here's the actual study, btw - took a while to find so I posted the article first.
Apparently there's a jewish conspiracy against posting that link. Whatever I do, 4chan doesn't let me submit it. Just google "Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons: a respondent driven sampling study in Ontario, Canada"
>>66059068
Nah let them kill themselfes. Nature has developed all the needed mechanisms to get rid of genetical defects and mutations.
PENIS = MALE
VAGINA = FEMALE
GROW THE FUCK UP AND DEAL WITH IT HOLY SHIT
>>66059068
>>66059705
Have you ever heard the term "confirmation bias"?
You can always find information backing your view. Gender dysphoria still has valids reasonto be considered as a mental illness.
http://rodina.pastorbonus.sk/plugins/studie/upload/inclusion%20of%20GID.pdf
>>66059068
This article is saying that transgender suicide is caused by trans phobia but i believe it is because of the underlying disorders they have.
These articles tell quite a different story to the one you are telling:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
>>66057294
Don't end imperative sentences with question marks?
these niggas can't even use a common word without having to use an elipsis and fabricate an argument that makes their side look better.
>>66059738
Yes, let's let evolution optimize for ingroup genetic fitness instead of human values like happiness, caring, and justice, so we implement eugenics, kill people who can't reproduce, ignore art and such in favor or reproduction, and if our population is constrained we eat each other people's babies instead of reducing our own breeding (not fiction: see the experiment by Vero Wynne-Edwards, Warder Allee, and J. L. Brereton). Evolution doesn't give a fuck about human values. Why should we give a fuck about ingroup genetic fitness wnen we've advanced beyond that?
>>66059805
No there is a third possibility. It is intersex.
But then your X ans Y chromosomes are in some ways mutated. An intersex person can have multiple X chromosomes and a Y chromosome and would appear still as woman. There are many athletes out there with this disorder.
>>66059068
>cis
Fuck off you worthless SJW cunt. No I'm not going to give you a reasonable protracted debate because your case is retarded prima facie. There's dozens of hugbox sites you can go sperg on. /pol/ isnt one of them.
>>66060062
>intersex
Does it have a penis or a vagina?
M or F?
Thats all there is to it. Everything else is mental disease and/or childish failure to grow up.
>>66060153
They have both actually.
>>66059876
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
"The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). "
Did you even read? I will repeat: I hope you're not referring to the study that uses cis controls for measuring transgender suicide rate. That's like saying, people treated for cancer are still 10x more likely to die than cancer-free people, so we should give up cancer treatment.
>>66057138
>>66060205
Then they're an abnormality and a genetic dead end, shit happens.
>>66060077
This is a scientific debate, get your political tribal cheers to another thread, shut up and let the adults do the talking.
>>66060224
>cis
Kill yourself
>>66060303
Science goes on >>>/sci/ where your shit will be thoroughly debated, rightly laughed at and thrown out. This is SJW political bullshit. Fuck off
>>66060370
Really, GTFO. I can waste my time calling you a stormfront pseudoscientific bioconservative bigot, but I'd rather debate with the 90% of others in this thread that are actually giving intelligent responses that make me think rather than "Yay right-wing! fuck SJWs" or "Yay left-wing, fuck bigots!" idiotic sports cheers. This is the last time I will reply to you.
>>66060370
>>66060303
You know thats actually a good question. Would you care to explain why one would try to argue your """""scientific""""" bullshit on a political forum instead of the scientific one right next door?
You're as fucking bad as creationists.
>>66057138
Can we just fire up the fucking ovens already?
>>66060589
Go to >>>/sci/ if you want a reasonable scientific debate. Come back and apologize once you get BTFO. Go to tumblr if you want an SJW hugbox, this aint it.
>>66060630
Ready when you are boss.
>>66060606
Because if for you politics is a mind in the clouds ideology utterly separated from science and reality, there's no way I can convince you of anything and there's no way your policy will ever accomplish anything useful, because at some point it has to deal with reality, which you choose to ignore as a matter of policy.
>>66060862
>a mind in the clouds ideology
You need to take a long hard look at yourself.
>>66060927
Me: posts scientific papers which represent empirical reality
You: says science and reality is irrelevant, only your feels about "SJWs" matter.
I think it's pretty clear who is more grounded in reality.
>>66061057
>empirical
>scientific
0/10 im done
>>66061091
Thank you, I'm pretty much done too. If you can't accept the judgment of the entire scientific community, you're the utterly dogmatic kind and trying to convince you of anything by reason is a waste of my time.
You don't get the "female brains" until after hormone therapy.
The only physical abnormality of trannies is an enlarged putamen, which is responsible for gender perception
>>66057138
Identifying cause for dysphoria doesn't make you another gender.
Identifying cause for baldness doesn't make you hairy.
At the very least, that just means they had a defect in utero that caused their condition, be it hormonal or any else.
>>66057138
This and the logical fallacy that is trans. I am inherently a man. I am a man whether or not I fit the stereotypes of a man. Women are female whether they apear feminine or want to be feminine. By living as a man the trans woman makes the claim that a persona is defined by steroetypes and predjudice while simultaneously rejecting stereotypes and prejudices.
>>66060279
some of them are fertile.
>>66062027
trans people hormone levels are normal
