fusion energy for many decades?
pic related is the T-15 tokamak of the Soviet Union in 1988. The T-15 was a revolutionary industrial fusion reactor with superconducting magnets to control the plasma. Fusion energy on an industrial scale was in reach... and then somebody acted to collapse the Soviet Union. Convenient coincidence? I do not think so.
>>65524174
Yes. Nuclear energy has been puppeted by big oil for decades.
Everyone with half a head knows this.
Fusion would make oil obsolete within a few years with correct state subsidies for electric vehicles, so as a result the oil industry has been buying up patents and disappearing them for a long time now to force us to keep using oil.
>>65524174
Provide source this was legit.
Specifically that this was viable, because if I recall correctly similar attempts have been made many times.
>>65524174
>Convenient coincidence?
Yes.
>>65524919
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8pamtNX64
Watch and weep. Fossil fuel industry in the 2000s torpedoing fusion power.
>>65524354
/thread
Fusion research is slower and the oil lobby may have put significant pressure on defunding such projects. On the other hand, research is still ongoing it's not like it's being actively suppressed.
>>65524354
you literally put mankind on hold
how and why is that even legal?
>>65524174
Meh, the physics of fusion is all known. We're still waiting for a breakthrough.
Even if you could go energy-positive in a controlled fusion reaction, it wouldn't be by very much, and you certainly wouldn't be able to easily pipe it around the country from a single localized power plant.
Nah man, fusion is way off. It will happen someday for sure though, count on it
>>65525155
doppelte nummern geprüft
The jew has the money and power to do this.
>>65524174
Type in MIT Draco if you want to see "delayed" things that will help humanity.
>>65524174
Tesla had working free wireless energy in 1920. Maybe we should band together and murder the entire Rothschild and Rockefeller families.
>>65525098
Poo
Loo
>>65525129
>On the other hand, research is still ongoing it's not like it's being actively suppressed.
Look at ITER. It is actively sabotaged. ITER was proposed by the Soviets in 1985 with the goal to have a working industrial-scale fusion reactor by 2000.
Then the Soviet Union (was) collapsed and do you know where ITER is now? It has been delayed so often that deuterium-tritium fusion is not expected before 2030.
>>65525280
>Meh, the physics of fusion is all known. We're still waiting for a breakthrough.
>Even if you could go energy-positive in a controlled fusion reaction, it wouldn't be by very much, and you certainly wouldn't be able to easily pipe it around the country from a single localized power plant.
Go away, you oilman hired ODIF (oil defense internet force) dude.
>>65524174
We don't even need a fusion reactor, a fission reactor is more than capable of providing the energy we need using uranium to power any future needs. One gram on uranium can power your home for an entire year.
Next generation reactors, such as the Integral Fast Reactor, which was researched and tested in the 1980's was shown to be meltdown proof. Tests were performed where Emergency Core Cooling (ECC) was lost, and still no meltdown. A complete power failure (similar to a Fukushima type situation where the diesel backup goes out) was tested, and still no meltdown.
This technology exists, and could easily be brought into large scale energy production. China is already doing this. The oil industry has North America by the balls, when we could have complete energy independence using technology and resources we already have.
Oil is used for plastic, you know?
If you find a way to make plastic out of fusion energy then go ahead.
>>65525973
Plastics are made out of oil, however the largest percentage of oil is used for energy. Whether that energy is kerosene, petrol, or other distillate products doesn't matter, the fact is plastics only constitute a small percentage of what oil is primarily used for.
>>65524174
>and then somebody acted to collapse the Soviet Union.
n...nothing to see here, goy.
>>65525973
>If you find a way to make plastic out of fusion energy then go ahead.
Dude, we can make all the plastic we want worldwide from natural sources, if we wanted to. Plastic, asphalt, etc. are just byproducts of gasoline and diesel and kerosine production... we use waste products, not because they are the only source, but they are a damn cheap source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic
>>65526275
>just byproducts of gasoline and kerosene production.
>both products which are made from oil.
I think what you mean to say is that plastics can be made from other hydrocarbons outside of oil, such as hydrocarbon gas liquids and natural gas.
>>65526507
>such as hydrocarbon gas liquids and natural gas.
No, I said we can make bioplastic.
Bioplastics are plastics derived from renewable biomass sources, such as vegetable fats and oils, corn starch, or microbiota. Bioplastic can be made from agricultural byproducts and also from used plastic bottles and other containers using microorganisms.
>>65525628
it was proposed in 85, first draft in 90 and a final design in 98. giant international projects take a lot of time. The LHC was planned in a decade. Not many people were willing to pay huge amounts of money for a technology unnecessary during that time. everybody had cheap nuclear energy and oil.
>>65526656
>it was proposed in 85, first draft in 90 and a final design in 98. giant international projects take a lot of time
In 1985, the Soviets suggest to have it up and running in 2000. Guess what happened after the proposed that in 1985.
Guess how fast the Soviet Union built the T-15.
>>65524354
>Yes. Nuclear energy has been puppeted by big oil for decades.
The opposite is true desu, big oil funds green parties and renewable energy to go against nuclear power, while fusion remains a pipe dream for crackpots (cold fusion) or governemnt programs that expect the first fusion power plant in 2050.
>>65527067
>while fusion remains a pipe dream for crackpots (cold fusion) or governemnt programs that expect the first fusion power plant in 2050.
Now guess why they created ITER and delayed it for 40 years? No, it is not that the US or Germany don't have the 6 or 7 billion to build it, it is because they are paid to delay research and divert funds to big tokamaks instead of the various alternative designs.
The oil and coal industries are evil. In Germany they have managed to shut down fission reactors plus they have managed that we won't have fusion until 2060 or 2070 instead of 2000 or 2010 as was originally planned by the Soviet Union.
>>65524174
The USSR made most of its money from fossil fuel exports and it was a shit tier economy since the 1960s, while the 1980s militarization finally bankrupted the communist turd.
Some meme reactor was never, ever going to be a factor as to why the USSR underwent (in Putin's words) "the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century" when it voted to break itself up.
>>65527067
>big oil funds green parties and renewable energy to go against nuclear power
Big oil also owns uranium mining operations. They control nuclear power through and through.
>>65527439
>instead of 2000 or 2010 as was originally planned by the Soviet Union.
Any USSR fusion plans were inherintly unrealistic because they lacked the tech to actually go through with their desires. It would not have happened if they threw all the money in the world at it.
>The oil and coal industries are evil. In Germany they have managed to shut down fission reactors
No, that's merkel and greenies being evil.
>>65527510
BS.
>we wuz physicists an shiet!
>>65527799
>Any USSR fusion plans were inherintly unrealistic because they lacked the tech to actually go through with their desires.
The T-15 worked and produced results. It was shut down in 1993 due to lack of funds following the collapse of the Soviet Union.
>>65524174
well considering the fusion reactor in construction for nearly 20 years was only funded with 14 billion euros from multiple countrys it´s kinda obvious that they aren´t hard pressed to get this shit running.
14 billion for the richest countries on the planet is fucking nothing. even germany pays like 7 billion a year for funding solar cells and fucking windmills.
>>65527439
>various alternative designs
for the numeric calculation of the plasma and wendelstein's superconductors you need a lot of calculation power not available during that time. and you talk about the t-15 like it produced huge amounts of excess energy which it certainly did not. all those fusion reactors operated to this day did not produce any excess energy.
>>65527745
>Big oil also owns uranium mining operations.
They got them for cheap when the oil glut of the 1980s happened, followed by USSR firesales in 1989-1991. They also own many of the world's largest cement foundries which also supply worldwide nuclear plant construction.
>>65527835
Meaningless image to be honest senpai.
>>65524174
tokamak has been retired as a fusion design, you know. Did you do any research at all? Several were built, and the USA has at least one. Yes, the energy of a particle was surprisingly high but the reality is that the spiraling magnetic field is too unstable causing the stream to quench and crash into the vessel walls.
Philo Farnsworth invented a fusion device that American kids build in high school, called a Fusor. Useless for power, does produce free neutrons though. Just very very few.
Anway, the wikipedia article says it quite plainly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokamak
Plasma disruptions[edit]
This device where a large toroidal current is established (15 megaamperes in ITER) suffers from a fundamental problem of stability. The nonlinear evolution of magnetohydrodynamical instabilities leads to a dramatic quench of the plasma current on a very short time scale, of the order of the millisecond. Very energetic electrons are created (runaway electrons) and a global loss of confinement is finally obtained. A very high energy is deposited on small areas. This phenomenon is called a major disruption.[5] The occurrence of major disruptions in running tokamaks has always been rather high, of the order of a few percent of the total numbers of the shots. In currently operated tokamaks, the damage is often large but rarely dramatic. In the ITER tokamak, it is expected that the occurrence of a limited number of major disruptions will definitively damage the chamber with no possibility to restore the device.[6][7][8][dubious – discuss][page needed]
--
A new design is being researched but don't expect any breakthrough soon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellarator
>>65527875
Thats actually true, most of the foundations of knowledge in nuclear physics was established by Germans or Austrians (i.e.: guys other than einstein)
read a history book
>>65527958
>The T-15 worked and produced results.
It wasn't net energy positive or any better than contemporary reactors though.
>>65528368
>tokamak has been retired as a fusion design
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
ITER (Latin for "the way") is an international nuclear fusion research and engineering megaproject. It will be the world's largest magnetic confinement plasma physics experiment, housed in the world's largest experimental tokamak nuclear fusion reactor that is being built next to the Cadarache facility in the south of France.
>>65528368
This was completed what, 4 months ago, IN GERMANY. OP IS A GERMAN.
abandon retard thread
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X
>>65524174
No.
>>65526654
>>65526507
>>65526275
>>65525973
What is every ford car manufactured from the mid 2000s onward.
Dashboard? made out of tomato scraps purchased from the Heinz corporation (material not used in food production).
Seats and seat cushions? Evil government subsidized soy beans.
Should I go on? They also use Corn.
Ford the global company is also huge on ethanol vehicles in the rest of the world (Brazil comes to mind) and unlike GM which denies their vehicles are capable of running on bio fuels, Ford admits since their fleet is now global that it is an issue of a few parts and a programming (which may in 2016 not even be an issue as the onboard computers adjust automatically and being global are probably all the same)
>>65529121
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X
So?
>>65529121
Ford is ok. Government Motors is shit.
>>65528866
of course he is a retard. the wendelstein is the most ambitious stellerator ever made and it will take years to get the results. OP doesn't even realize that there is more than just building those things. the technology to accurately measure and process the information gained during operation is another huge obstacle.
>>65528267
>>65529265
why no reaction? you are just spouting the things you consider important proving your points without real evidence
>>65529339
>the wendelstein is the most ambitious stellerator ever made and it will take years to get the results.
Guess when the first stellerator was built. And then guess why we are building new ones now in 2016.
>>65529121
Interesting I was unaware of this. Do you have any articles that you would suggest reading on it? I would like to know more about this.
>>65529339
Jesus Christ, someone to talk to.
Any idea when we'll get some numbers?
I have nothing against Poccийcкaя people. I put science above politics, I think most scientists do.
>>65524354
Too bad because of their greed plastic will be fucking expensive in the future... Unless you guys make me happy and tell me that even without fossil fuels around there are ways ... but very unlikely.
>>65524174
They don't have the right fuel to make the fusion reactors last.
>>65530071
Except the world oceans, you just need the hydrogen and water is a great source of it.
>>65530037
Synthetic plastics have been engineered and are only less economical by virtue of oil price and abundance.
Oil is just a collection of hydrocarbons and we can synthesize hydrocarbons to make plastics.
>>65530071
>They don't have the right fuel to make the fusion reactors last.
We got deuterium and tritium, what are you talking about? Don't come with this shit helium-3 Elon Musk moon mining shit.
>>65530235
Yay good news :D, nothing to lose in that case.. except the asphalt - it would pretty much force engineers into looking into a different material ... or would it?
>>65524174
>boiling water
This is why mankind has no future. Your great, revolutionary method of generating electricity that's supposed to save the world is...boiling water with a different fuel source.
>>65530259
Holy shit, this guy.
>>65530071
Wendelstein 7-X: The first helium plasma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_kPM1J-F0Q
>>65529899
it is always good to love the science you do but this shouldn't result in pseudo science like some people here are pushing.
this month they created the first hydrogen plasma for a fraction of a second. they are planning a 30 minute run in the coming years and eventually with a protium-deuterium mixture.
>>65530517
That is correct. Asphalt (bitumen, very viscous form of oil) wouldn't be hard to replace since there is an uneconomical bio alternative and the fact that
>A FUCKING LEAF
has more oil sands than England has square kilometers, we wouldn't run out of pavement surfaces for a long time.
>>65525098
1:10 Moe Howard
>>65530945
Holy shit - you made the future look really bright right now ( at least energy and constructions wise ) - but this could only mean even more civilization for third worlds as well.
And who cheap vertical farms in Africa may lead to elimination of hunger. A fact tho is that a great deal of Africa problems is caused by corruption ... so technology might bring no change there unless there's also a cultural change.
>>65530751
I'm a computer scientist and applied mathematician but I have friends that are particle physicists. Sadly research pays poorly, so while they would not find this site worth their time, they are probably working on some experiment right now. =(
>>65531326
4chan always insults engineers and researches so they don't usually come back.
It happened on /sci/ so many times.
>>65529847
I will do some looking, don't have the sources on hand.
I forgot about the denim in the door panels. Ford uses linen scrap from the clothing industry in their door panels as sound proofing.
If Alan Mulally ran as president America would be great again. (Look him up if you don't know who he is)
>>65531258
>African problems
That is caused by Western idiot governments sending "aid" to them and letting them breed like rabbits. They run out of food to eat because there are too many of them. We should cut off the aid and let them die off, just like a Malthusian check.
>but this could only mean even more civilization for third worlds as well.
They will never let themselves become civilized.
Those nations who want civilization have it by now. Anyone else is making a conscious decision to remain in the dark.
>>65524174
The banks who support the oil industry (private interests) are what cause problems. Oil is good, otherwise. We need oil. We need more oil coming in, and less going out, because people are selling it off. We don't need people who make shitty deals.
>>65531420
Unfortunate.
>>65530751
Not hard to find info. I've pasted in the interesting part.
https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4010154/02_16
"The present initial experimentation phase will last till mid-March. The plasma vessel will then be opened in order to install carbon tiles for protecting the vessel walls and a so-called “divertor” for removing impurities. “These facilities will enable us to attain higher heating powers, higher temperatures, and longer discharges lasting up to ten seconds”, explains Professor Klinger. Successive extensions are planned until, in about four years, discharges lasting 30 minutes can be produced and it can be checked at the full heating power of 20 megawatts whether Wendelstein 7-X will achieve its optimisation targets."
>>65531326
i'm a nanoengineer. you are right with the poor pay but in return you work with amazing things.
>>65531420
debating with stupid people on an image board is exhausting, i don't know why i still try
>>65531516
Their number is a problem yes, but from what I researched their corruption level is like the worst problem. It's good for a while - then the leaders fuck every thing up, and scrap the little civilizations the west leaves behind.
>They will never let themselves become civilized.
Let's hope that they will have some eccentric people in the following decades that will revolutionize collective mentality.
>>65531326
I know many comp Sci and mat/ physics doctorates and all of them are autistic fucks and all they do is browse 4chan, study, and have gross awkward sex.
>>65531846
Well mos of us still browse this imageboard for amusement mainly, rational discussions are a rare delight.
>>65529847
http://corporate.ford.com/microsites/sustainability-report-2013-14/environment-climate-policy-southamerican.html
>In 2013, most of Ford’s light-duty products in Brazil were offered as ethanol flexible-fuel vehicles. The new Ford Focus introduced in Brazil in 2013 is the world’s first direct-injection flexible-fuel engine. We also provide light- and heavy-duty vehicles that meet biodiesel requirements.
Ford USA did not take a bailout like GM, but instead sold off their assets and acted like grown ups (Volvo was sold to the chinese, Jag and Landrover the poo in the loo folks)
What they did do though was request and obtained a low interest loan to work on R&D, engine design, and bio materials. Its why the Ford lineup is arguably the most efficient in the world with their new motors and also why Ford global is producing some of the best cars in the world.
>>65531837
>https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4010154/02_16
thanks. i was searching their site and didn't found this, really bad of me. but nevertheless i wasn't that wrong with my estimate of a few years
>>65532171
No problem, how long before your nanomachines turn us all into gray goo?
>>65524174
There are many fusion type producers. The problem is they havent been able to make it output more than they input.
>>65524174
I see no inherent reason to assume why a fusion reactor would be cheaper to run per Watt than a fission reactor (either way fuel costs are irrelevant at the moment).
>>65532921
Uranium is pretty expensive.
Fission and fusion are completely different technologies.
ITT: Pleb science 101
/pol/tards should realize you need 100 mill celsius for fusion to take place and you need to generate and contain that heat and get more energy out of the process that you put into it
It was never available in the soviet era, it`s not available now and it won`t be beneficial for a very long time.
>>65532747
>nanomachine
i guess not before the first commercial fusion reactor is running. nanomachines are more of a meme right now
>>65532921
>I see no inherent reason to assume why a fusion reactor would be cheaper to run per Watt than a fission reactor
>fusion
>fission
They are antonyms.
Fission splits an atom whereas fusion combines atoms.
>>65533201
Actually an experimental reactor recently achieved breakeven, or a Q of 1.
Cold fusion is alive and well
Breakthrough possibly ongoing -replication recipe-
http://www.e-catworld.com/
>>65524174
>and then somebody acted to collapse the Soviet Union
Their inability to micromanage market forces?
>>65533331
>Actually an experimental reactor recently achieved breakeven, or a Q of 1
there is no tokamak or stellarator capable of break even right now.
inertial confinement fusion broke even but on a small lab scale which has nothing to do with actual real world application
>>65533743
wew lad
>>65534059
The problem with fusion reactors currently is with the magnets. We need better superconductors in order to generate and contain the plasma better.
>>65531482
>Alan Mulally
Just did some reading and DAMN this guy sounds great, really puts into perspective how much a truly great CEO can do. Also its an endorsement for technical knowledge in addition to business experience for industry leaders.
