How does socialism sustain itself?
I like how it sounds but it comes off as an ideology that will not be able to last.
>>63704204
It doesn't
>>63704204
the first pillar of socialism, which is fundamental, is that the people in a country love each other and want to cooperate. Which is why immigration + socialism never works
>>63704364
National Socialism on the other hand...
>>63704204
it can't
you'd literally have to be a robot for it to work
>>63704445
it worked well while it lasted.
Sanders is not a socialist, at least not in that sense.
Nor will he "destroy America". Chill the fuck out.
It sustains itself the same way North Korea sustains itself. By begging for aid every year from functioning countries.
If a socialist countries doesn't have any other country to leech off of, it collapses like USSR did.
>>63704204
>it comes off as an ideology that will not be able to last.
Gosh, could this be why in every attempt at socialism, it never lasts? Apparently when you make the wealthy your enemy and simultaneously rely on taxing them heavily to fund your welfare state, you eventually run out of money to steal. Who could have seen this coming?
>>63704605
my god thats a rare flag, what is that even?
>>63704623
Depends what you mean by "socialist".
Arguably USSR was state capitalism.
>>63704559
Oy vey, racist.
We can't have selfish whites caring about and cooperating with one another.
Multiculturalism has to happen goy, without it Europe will not survive.
>>63704559
With a gun behind your head of course
>>63704204
borrowing money from the jews
why do you think they push it so hard?
>>63704204
It's like Robin Hood, nigga. Take all the new wealth created by the 1% and give it to the poor. Bar any US companies from moving overseas. Boom. America is great again
>>63704204
Imagine a light bulb hooked up to a solar panel which powers that exact same light bulb.
Imagine a power strip plugged into itself.
Imagine one of those old troll physics comics where a car moves by attaching a magnet to it, pointed at the bumper.
Imagine lifting yourself into the air by standing in a bucket and trying to pull that bucket upward.
That's how socialism stays afloat: exclusively in fiction.
>>63704204
this is from someone who lived in a socialist shithole
>first you have a successful capitalist type of country which builds everything and has a functioning system
>then you have a violent revolution which promises those on the bottom of the ladder equal wealth of those on the top
>installcommunism.exe
>now you kill those rich folks and take their money and property
>you replace them with your communist friends and those on the bottom of the ladder stay there
>you run a "successful" state for a few years while you have money leftover from murdered bourgeois
>after that money is spent, you plead and whine to IMF for funding
>then you crash the plane with no survivors
>>63704605
>As if Montenegro knows anything about anything...
You're right that he's not a Socialist. He's a Communist.
We'll see how well European socialism works when they don't have the U.S. Military to fight for them so they can afford all their social programs.
Laughs will be had.
>>63704973
>U-US companies moving overseas
Do you wanna work like Chinese or Vietnamese?
No? Then deal with it. Companies will always aim to increase their profit.
See how "market fixing itself" looks like? Fix is inevitable, but millions will suffer until invisible hand does it's work. Of course, those with money and power can always force their own will and stop "fixing" if it suits their narrow interest.
That's why I understand libertarian argument, but they can do it always as long as there is basic minimum, or state monopoly over force.
>>63704973
Robin Hood stole from a corrupt lord who was taking too much money from the people. His story is about how the people need their money in their own pockets and that the government should not be taking so much from the people.
Socialists merely believe that the rich aren't people.
>>63704813
>everything but my utopian vision of socialism is capitalism
Yeah, we get it...
>>63705282
>he's a communist
He's Stalin's spirit in a body of 70 year old Jew!
>this is what Americans actually believe
>>63705389
>if you correct me you're communist!
Sure thing McCarthy.
I'm just saying socialism is a very wide term. It doesn't mean USSR style economy and government automatically.
>>63704907
absolutely. A gun instead of the threat of losing your job, kids and social life if you dare express contrarian views :)
>>63705938
That's still better than a gun to your head though.
>>63705589
No you fucking dipshit. If he's anybody, he's Lenin. The guy who makes Socialism (really just Communism) acceptable which allows a guy like Stalin to rise to power.
Jesus Christ, this shit is History 101. What the fuck are they teaching in Montenegro?
And Sanders is a Communist. Has been since 1964 at the University of Chicago.
>>63706023
I'd rather have neither of them
>>63705833
>McCarthy
>yfw you realize McCarthy was right...
>>63706145
Jesus Christ what a sheep.
>>63706175
True. But one is clearly lesser evil.
>>63704204
It doesn't. Europe is going to become 3rd world by 2050
>>63704204
"Bad" socialism like Vietnam and Russia fail.
"Good" socialism like Sweden only continues to thrive and function thanks to support and protection from capitalist allies.
It would also fail on its own though. The successful socialist state is a myth.
>>63706466
lol. Okay, pal. Don't you have some Redditing to do to spread your Communist leader's message?
>>63706358
About what? That everyone he didn't like was a commie?
That's actually commie-style thinking. Mass paranoia and wild accusations are hallmarks of totalitarian regimes.
>>63704813
>Arguably USSR was state capitalism.
Sure, just like arguably Paris is located in India and the moon is made of giraffes.
>>63704204
It can't sustain itself, you are blind to the parasite that enslaves you, if you have deluded yourself otherwise.
>>63705282
Pretty much this.
If the US was able to cut its military spending by 2/3rds we might actually be able to afford some of the shit sanders wants to do.
That would still put us above Germoney's military spending per capita.
This is not possible though because all of our allies are bitches and we are mortal enemies with Russia and China.
>>63706702
More buzzwords. Why are you even trying? You don't have any arguments.
Bernie Sanders is not a communist, nor is he a socialist in what socialism traditionally means in Western world (USSR-style system).
I just explained you that socialism is in reality a very wide term.
You just called me commie and compared Sanders to a guy who literally amassed power by violence and who was openly communist and propagated a single-party dictatorship.
Not everyone your masters don't like is a commie.
Furthermore, fuck commies too.
>>63706943
It's not possible because your MIC is harvesting some serious money from you ''defending'' your allies.
You know, by selling them stuff, and by selling your military stuff.
>>63706800
Do you even know what state capitalism is?
>>63707034
Argument is that those rich people don't gain money in vacuum, they profit from society.
Since they profit from society, it is only fair that they give a (bigger) share of their wealth in return.
I mean, that's the argument, I personally believe in a flat tax rate.
>>63707003
>Furthermore, fuck commies too.
Hey look! The only intelligent thing you've said in this thread!
>>63707433
I've said many intelligent things, it's just that you were conditioned thoroughly to act like Pavlov's dog.
Whenever some directly or indirectly attacks your corporate masters, you bark ''communism''.
>>63707347
How much money do you make? If it's more than what I make, give me some.
Centralized systems that concentrate too much mass do not anneal or adjust incrementally so they always fail catastrophically, they lack degrees of freedom.
Physics explains why socialism fails (every time without exception) and history will demonstrate this aswell.
>>63704445
Not sustainable, even if he didn't go to war.
>>63707749
>I personally believe in a flat tax rate
And why would I give you some? I'm not American.
>>63704204
>How does socialism sustain itself?
You get rid of the minorities first.
>>63704204
Depends on what you're talking about.
Are you talking about total state ownership of the means of production? Then it will sustain itself on the hardships of the people it is imposed upon.
Are you talking about a high level of government spending within the context of a market economy, with a certain degree of state guidance on the investment patterns of the financial sector? Then this type of system can sustain itself both on tax revenues and on purchasing power created by either the treasury or the central bank ("creating money out of nothing"). Contrary to what you're told, this type of money creation does not entail indebtedness to a central bank, since the way central banks operate, they pay back the profits to the government after the bond expires. The only type of government debt which actually entails an interest burden on the populace is bonds bought by private parties or foreign governments. I realize this is probably contrary to everything you've ever been told and this will probably attract massive amounts of libertarian/conservative shitposting, but public debt held on central bank balance sheets LITERALLY DOES NOT MATTER. The only negative qualities that could conceivably be ascribed to this is A) inflation (which actually, depending on the definition) is not really bad at all and B) increasing government allocation of resources (which actually can be bad, based on circumstances). Therefore government issuing of currency based off of central bank balance sheet operations only entails an increase in purchasing power / demand in the economy. This is a good thing. Increases in the public debt are a good thing. Within reason. MUCH better that, than increases in the money supply at the expense in private debt (debt held by you and I and private businesses) which is how libertarians would prefer the money supply to increase (whether they realize it or not)...
>>63707616
lol. And because I disagree with you, your conditioned response is to call me a sheep and say I'm behaving like Pavlov's dog...while behaving like Pavlov's dog attempting to defend socialism.
The irony is rich.
>>63708001
Okay, pedant. If your neighbor makes less money than you, do you give him some?
Socialism will never work but communism will if you do it right.
Here's how you properly communism
>You should never ever have an end goal.
>All social services and low income housings are owned and controlled by the state. Everything else is privately owned and laissez-faire
Here are the benefits
>No one will lobby for leftist laws and humanitarian causes because no one can profit from it.
>Much lower taxes
>No refugees
>Free healthcare
>Free education
>Free housing for low income families
>>63708195
Some people have trouble seeing past the massive erection they hold for Marx.
>>63707749
this
>>63704204
It's a slow but steady process driven by technological innovation.
The Internet and entertainment are the best example for this. Netflix/Hulu/YouTube are a step beyond your regular TV bullshit. Games on PC can become affordable very quickly thanks to sales and bundles. Indie devs can make a buck much more easily thanks to ability to crowdsource funds, marketing and bug-testing. People can now buy whatever song they like and freely sample instead of getting a much-more expensive physical album, and even that is optional given things like Spotify/Pandora/Piracy.
If renewable energy, 3D printers and self-driving cars/automatons will become big things in the future, socialism is doable. We will live in a world where most of the hard-work will be done automatically while we focus more and more on intellectual and cultural affairs.
Obviously I'm day-dreaming in here a lot, but we could still accomplish small steps towards an improved future.
>>63704843
kek, saved. Thanks friendo!
>>63704605
The ideas I hear from him are exactly what our government does here.
First they claimed they were going "for the top 1%".
Now, the taxes on the whole middle class (around the top 50% of population) are so heavy that everyone that studied and has a decent job is getting fed up.
The bottom 40% of dindus that do nothing and most important, has no will to improve themselves, get free money, but they do nothing with it, they run and buy LED tvs and booze that could last an eternity.
It's basically populism and buying votes from the lowest bracket of society.
Can't wait for the biggest nation on earth to experience the glory of socialism first-hand.
And you guys have waaaaaaaaaaaaay more niggers and poors than we do, Bernie will basically enable millions and millions of nig-nogs to be able to sit in their homes doing nothing but drinking booze with "dem programz" money.
That's what happens here at least. Correct me if I'm wrong and im not reading well Bernie's intentions, I havent been following him that much.
>>63705097
Nice
>>63708788
Nigger, everything you just pointed out became a thing because of capitalism.
>>63708788
>socialism is doable
No it's not. As technology improves, costs come down. In the future, we'll likely get paid less, but our costs will come down in conjuction.
>>63709344
I know, which is why I said it's a "slow and steady" process. Capitalism is still useful.
>>63709475
>>63709623
Why would we ever want to switch to socialism after all of that?
>>63709731
What short sighted dipshit made this?
When no one can afford to pay for the widget, the capital and the rent have to come down or the labor price has to be brought back up. Fuck, it's not hard.
>>63709880
the socio-political changes follow by themselves once scientific/technological advances are made.
>>63704204
>socialism
>economic policy in which resources and their use are controlled by the public who together share the benefits of their use
>democracy
>political system in which governing power is derived from the people of the public, who together elect representatives to govern on behalf of all
>americans elect politicians
>politicians create tax policies
>americans pay taxes
>americans pool resources
>publicly elected officials distribute the taxes to fund programs and infrastructure for benefit of public as whole
>roads bridges utilities parks and military all funded through taxes
>public is already in control of economic resources used for mutual benefit
>americans too stupid to know they're already democratic socialists
>>63710016
And how are these prices changes expressed? Magically? According to your assumption there cannot and never has been any structural deviation from equilibrium or shrink in output. Please don't comment if you don't understand.
>>63704204
Short story >>63704291
Long story, by relying on capitalist neighbours and others to protect them which lessens their overall spending, and by making every generation baby boomers which is impossible since people naturally have children at a lower rate once life becomes more comfortable.
>>63708788
And those technological innovations are caused by capitalists wanting to make more money.
>>63711706
i dont understand why venezuelan socialism is well regarded...
>>63704623
>Yugoslavia pre 1980
>>63704779
"MonteNegro"
also known as Mt. Nigger.
>>63704728
>le running out of other people's money meme
>implying wealth can't be created
>>63705097
Except that's not true
>>63708443
won't work.
the moment those poorfags get what they want they start fighting for the right to free beer, free iphones, free fast food, free internet, free computers, free drugs, free mansions, free boats, free personal planes, free tattoos, free everything i dont have.
it will never end really.
socialism is a like a gradually draining bathtub without enough water being put into it to replace the water lost.. and also the tub itself is shrinking.
>>63705231
That's a ridiculous oversimplification.
>>63704204
By corerning parts of the world market.
>>63705282
>Europe relies on US military
There hasn't been a military threat to Western Europe or Scandinavia for decades.
And Bernie's no communist.
>>63713516
cornering*
any system that rewards failure and punishes success will fail, it is mathematical certainty.
>>63705389
Where was that mentioned? It's irrelevant.
>>63708844
Except I never said I support Sanders.
I just think that he's not a USSr tier commie like some imagine.
Also, I support socialized healthcare and free education (depending on academic success).
I don't support giving money to people who don't want to work.
That's what I meant by "socialism means many things".
Besides, America already has socialist policies.
>>63708844
>Now, the taxes on the whole middle class (around the top 50% of population)
Don't be silly, it's the top 49% of the population.
The majority has to be tax free so they can vote for you.
>>63706145
Lenin actually didn't plan on dying so early, and he did everything possible while alive to keep Stalin out of power.
>>63713605
And any system that creates massive inequality is bound to collapse.
Nothing is perfect.
>>63704204
Basically you pay higher taxes but you get a lot of the things that you are currently paying for out of pocket for "free".
>>63704364
Is right, it only works if everybody is committed to the idea of helping their neighbor so we can advance forward as a country together. People don't like doing this if the system is susceptible to immigrants comming in and taking advantage of services without paying the taxes. Thats where the nationalism comes in basically "america is for americans and fuck pretty much everyone else".
>>63713835
Not true actually. The only ones that collapse are the bottom poorfags. The top 10% will be just fine.
>>63706358
>paranoid, egomaniacal fuckwit who ruined countless careers and manipulated the fears of millions
>>63704204
the only way it can sustain is for the state to remain homogeneous. it will never work for france germany sweden etc
>>63713835
>And any system that creates massive inequality is bound to collapse.
Any system is bound to collapse.
Unequal monarchies lasted 1500 years. Equal USSR 70 years...
socialism predates the wealth that is left from past market consequences or the least market niche it remains
>>63706662
In that sense, almost every state is a failure. No country could stand on its own.
>>63706943
Or if we just reorganized the military budget and stopped funding useless shit.
>>63704559
It worked in that instance because there were enemies internally (jews) and externally (everyone not down with the regime)
>>63704779
The other side of Yugoslavia
>>63713564
>There hasn't been a military threat to Western Europe or Scandinavia for decades.
top kek, anon. Gee golly, I wonder why?!!
>>63708195
>any mainstream conditioning defending socialism with Pavlovian responses
wat
>>63713924
Problem is when number of ''bottom poorfags'' keeps growing, while ''middle poorfags'' start to approach them and get even more distant from upper class.
Then a lot of 10% hangs or escapes and some angry people build a shittier system which will then collapse too.
>>63713973
True, but that was different for many reasons.
And I didn't say USSR was good, why can't you people read?
It's just that I hate this bullshit how Sanders is a commie and that ''eat the poor'' is equally idiotic as ''eat the rich''.
Wealth isn't immoral, but wealthy people aren't Gods nor are poor people scum that needs to suffer.
>>63704204
Pretty much every country uses some degree of socialism, including the US. There's a degree to which pure capitalism and pure socialism just aren't going to work, and it's usually due to the size of a nation and its economy.
>>63708475
>Marx
>popular in the US
lols at america trying to understand the rest of the world:
>"How can it work if it's not america?"
>>63713821
Yeah. That's the point. Once the system is in place, Stalin (i.e. anyone) can use that system to take power.
>>63704204
The Soviet Union literally received massive direct aid in both cash and wheat, and often in materials and machines, every year of its existence from Wilson to Reagan. It was never self-sufficient for a day.
>>63708844
>le ebin nigger gibsmedats meme
>>63714473
Once again, you don't do that because you're great guys who break their back for someone else, you do that because:
1) military power secures your influence
2) military-industrial complex
Your elite is perfectly fine with militarily weak Europe.
>>63714602
>but wealthy people aren't Gods nor are poor people scum that needs to suffer.
Wealthy people are objectively superior to poor people.
In a free market society, wealth is determined by worth.
>>63713041
kek
>>63714696
>direct aid
They didn't receive direct aid, why are you lying?
They paid that shit in gold.
However, it's comical that commies couldn't create a good agriculture. Mostly because they kept insisting on collectivization even though it didn't work at all.
>>63714637
You're right. It doesn't work unless it's America or has America backing it up.
>>63709344
Marx knew that. He appreciated capitalism for bring industrialization. He just thought the benefits should be reaped by all rather than a few.
>>63712922
I've seen that image with Chavez edited out for good reason.
>>63714602
>Problem is when number of ''bottom poorfags'' keeps growing, while ''middle poorfags'' start to approach them and get even more distant from upper class.
>Then a lot of 10% hangs or escapes and some angry people build a shittier system which will then collapse too.
Yeah that's pretty much how it goes, it's intentional. This is how society improves over time, natural selection will never stop not even for us.
>>63714760
>1) military power secures your influence
This is "bad"?
>2) military-industrial complex
That has given us untold amount of technological advancement, including the internet that you just typed this shit on?
>Your elite is perfectly fine with militarily weak Europe.
Again...this is "bad"?
>>63714768
You mean worth is determined by wealth?
So, a son of a rich man is superior to a son of a poor man, simply because his father has more money, even though he didn't do anything to poses that money besides the simple fact of being born?
Great thinking you have there.
>>63713605
Socialism doesn't do either.
>>63714898
Do you want me to repeat myself?
They were helpless.
We fed them.
We fed them because they could not feed themselves.
Without us they would have died.
Cold War rhetoric was to mislead anti-Communist rage, not a real intention: we verbally condemned them and then we did everything we cpuld tokeep them alive.
>>63715124
>You mean worth is determined by wealth?
No, you stupid nigger. I said wealth is determined by worth. Not the other way around.
In a free market society, the worthy will earn more money than the lazy. It's inevitable. That's why losers hate capitalism so much.
>>63715201
>socialism
>not rewarding niggers who do nothing
nice try kike.
Depends what kind/how much. The US already has some socialist policies. Could you be more specific OP?
>>63713247
What a great argument
>>63713924
The top often relies on the working class for labor.
>>63715081
>natural selection will never stop not even for us.
tell that to all the weaklings who won't die tonight in the cold outside instead of comfortably sitting at home tucked-in and happy.
overcoming nature is our thing as evolved animal species.
>>63715114
No it's not bad, but it's hypocritical to cry about how Europe spends less money, when that's serving US goals.
Furthermore, military budget doesn't mean much.
Your military is overpriced, simple as that.
>That has given us untold amount of technological advancement
True, but it's still overpriced. I suggest you research the subject and see the unholy amount of money that's wasted on some dubious shit. Yet you aren't bothered by that, but God forbid you even give a cent to your fellow citizen.
>Again...this is "bad"?
It's not bad, but you're crying about it.
>>63715081
>it just happens
No it doesn't, we don't live in 11th century, some people understand how shit happens.
Key is moderation, restoring things to balance.
>>63715415
not anymore.
but when that was true then the poor did fine.
>>63715500
ill tell it to the niggers who kill each other every day.
>>63715584
>No it doesn't, we don't live in 11th century, some people understand how shit happens.
>Key is moderation, restoring things to balance.
You can't balance retardation. The rich are powerful because poorfags made them powerful with their bad finances.
>>63715225
>we fed them
...and they paid for it. It wasn't aid.
Besides, you didn't supply all of their grain, all of the time. That trade was to cover shortages.
You're lying. Stop lying. No, I don't like commies, I just don't like liars either.
>>63715278
Problem is that many are ''worthy'', including people who cheat and do immoral things to gain wealth.
>losers
You don't understand me. When losers grow in sufficient number, chaos erupts. This should be avoided for everyone's sake.
By the way, no market is ''free''. It's utopia, just like communism.
It's more free for some people than others.
>>63715584
>No it's not bad, but it's hypocritical to cry about how Europe spends less money, when that's serving US goals.
It's not hypocritical at all. Anytime Europe wants to spend more money, go right fucking ahead and spend more money. I don't give a shit. Of course we're serving our goals. European countries are serving theirs by signing treaties like NATO where we back them up.
>Your military is overpriced, simple as that.
Yeah, probably. Still doesn't mean it's a bad thing to spend money on.
>wasted on some dubious shit.
No, I'm not really. We are giving cents to our fellow citizens. We're spending money on technological advancement and military defense so they can operate their own free enterprise. That's helping them.
>It's not bad, but you're crying about it.
I haven't cried about shit, son.
>>63704204
It works when your country isn't 40% niggers.
So it won't be working for Europe much longer.
>>63715750
Yeah and poorfags don't care about that and when in sufficient number they will burn everything.
>>63715626
>ill tell it to the niggers who kill each other every day.
or you can tell them to go to school. They tend to stop killing each other after they get educated and integrated.
>>63714749
the first thing the left did here when they were elected back in 2005 was to implement the called "Plan de Emergencia"
(emergency plan)
which is basically "gibsmedat" welfare checks.
They also created out of thin air a "Social Development Ministry" which siphoned a good chunk of the government's budget that was until that point used on the other ministries, now full of nepotism and with almost 600% more employees than before 2005. All that money goes "for them programs".
Basically what happened in Argentina too under Cristina Kirchner, and now Macri is firing them all. We need to do the same at some point when we get rid of the commies.
don't forget we are the country of "THE GOVERNMENT PLANTS AND GIVES US FREE WEED LMAO"
Our government IS a meme that came to life.
>>63716135
>Yeah and poorfags don't care about that and when in sufficient number they will burn everything.
Here we go with not accepting responsibility for your actions.
Enjoy trying to fight against this.
>>63715980
>I don't give a shit.
Are you dictator of USA?
Otherwise, your post makes no sense. I noticed you Americans often write shit like this.
Your elites (government, business) don't want strong Europe. Simple as that. What you give a shit about doesn't matter. You vote those people in.
>it's a bad thing
Dude, that's your money they're spending, and you willingly give FREE money to arms industry and others?
>That's helping them.
I'm not saying that's dumb, I'm saying it's dumb you're ignoring massive corruption in this system.
>>63716274
>or you can tell them to go to school. They tend to stop killing each other after they get educated and integrated.
>niggers
>going to school
You've never interacted with american niggers if you think this is true.
They are mentally incapable of learning or integrating into society.
>>63704204
my biggest complaint about my fellow leftists is how remarkably naïve they are about "oppressors & the oppressed" & capitalism being the enemy.
i think that's actually the biggest reason why communism & socialism are so dysfunctional.
& i'm all for grassroots capitalism, mom & pop businesses, & even competition. i mean do these retards really believe that they can have a sustainable society w/o meritocracy?
what i am against is corporatism, i do not support the aspects of capitalism that allow bigger companies to strangle smaller business w/ the sole purpose of destroying their competition, THAT is unfair
>>63716341
>not accepting responsibility
If you didn't read my post I'm not approving of that, I'm just saying it will happen.
And nothing will stop them. Minority can't prevail over majority. Especially when minority is very tiny and majority opposed to them grows.
>>63716635
>Minority can't prevail over majority. Especially when minority is very tiny and majority opposed to them grows.
0/10 bait, the minority isnt as small as you think it is and its definitely not stupid.
the top 10% pay over 50% of the tax income, we're literally carrying your faggot welfare ass.
>>63716773
You're not carrying my ass, we aren't even living in the same country my friend :)
>minority isn't as small
Problem is it's becoming small. And in present day people are more aware of that than in past.
I'm just saying that unless some things change, shitstorm will happen.
>>63716593
basically i'm only against capitalism @ the point where it start cannibalizing itself
>>63716522
No, but I shared a dorm room with a gypsie last year and he was pretty based. Of course, the difference from your typical gyppo was that he had normal parents and brothers who told him to study and work hard instead of begging on the streets and being a retard.
The best you can prove with racism is that negroes can never be the same levels of smart as we are. Which only means that they'll never be neurosurgeons (kek) but that doesn't mean they can't do less stimulating but still respectful jobs, instead of being shitty people.
>>63712524
Extended story
https://mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited
Full story one should read "Human action" and " Socialism " by mises
>>63716433
>Your elites (government, business) don't want strong Europe. Simple as that. What you give a shit about doesn't matter. You vote those people in.
We don't care about a strong Europe. You're right. Because Europe itself doesn't give a shit about being a strong Europe. You vote these people in.
>Dude, that's your money they're spending, and you willingly give FREE money to arms industry and others?
THEY'RE SPENDING MONEY ON MINE AND EUROPE'S DEFENSE. IT'S NOT FREE.
>I'm saying it's dumb you're ignoring massive corruption in this system.
Of course there's corruption. No one ignores it. There's no corruption in a Communist or a Socialist system? Jesus, your naivete knows no bounds. It's life, man. People make bad investments and people make good investments. No system offers zero corruption.
Now, I have to go do some shit, so I'm not going to reply anymore. I just want to be clear, I'm not replying anymore because I have to go do some shit.
>>63716922
>You're not carrying my ass, we aren't even living in the same country my friend :)
nice proxy first of all
And second, we do carry you as our automated farms produce nearly all the worlds food supply.
>Problem is it's becoming small. And in present day people are more aware of that than in past.
It's actually growing larger as the middle class is being torn apart, some of it is definitely going to the top.
They either get with the program or they fall back down to being low income morons who can't figure out why they cant afford their water bill when covered in 20 dollar tattoos.
>I'm just saying that unless some things change, shitstorm will happen.
civil war 2.0, there is no stopping it at this point and something tells me a seceded country of womens studies major won't be doing that well.
>>63708844
>>63714749
>>63716317
Save us
our right is retarded
our left is retarded
we're all retarded
america help
>>63716953
>The best you can prove with racism is that negroes can never be the same levels of smart as we are
already been proven.
>Which only means that they'll never be neurosurgeons (kek) but that doesn't mean they can't do less stimulating but still respectful jobs, instead of being shitty people.
that would be nice but the problem is that they are unstable.
they arent smart enough to make good decisions on their own so the only way this happens is if we all put a ton of work into stabilizing them.
its even more work trying to stabilize them now as we have to basically say that over half of them aren't allowed to raise their own children because they're fucking morons that raise them horribly and perpetuates niggers.
>>63717198
I keep repeating I'm not a supporter of communism or socialism and you keep stooping down to that level. What the fuck is wrong with you?
>as our automated farms produce nearly all the worlds food supply
What???
>some of it
Almost none of it.
>seceded country of womens studies major
How do you think rich people are rich? They just magically produce money themselves?
You don't know what you're talking about you fool. This isn't a video game. If chaos erupts, everyone will suffer.
>>63715584
>give a cent to a fellow citizen
>last year, my allocated taxes for welfare programs was ~$12,000
Fucking enough or no? How many more fat slobs do I have to cover for their diabetes and heart medication?
>>63717489
>>as our automated farms produce nearly all the worlds food supply
>What???
the top 10% run those automated farms, they have very high income due to their knowledge and hard work.
>>some of it
>Almost none of it.
around 40% moves up, the other morons move down.
>>seceded country of womens studies major
>How do you think rich people are rich? They just magically produce money themselves?
>You don't know what you're talking about you fool. This isn't a video game. If chaos erupts, everyone will suffer.
rich people get rich because niggers, spics, liberals all spend their money badly.
no matter how you look at it, you fucked up.
>>63717517
Why are you Americans all shitting on me, like I'm IRS or something?
You totally misinterpret my posts, I'm not a Bernie supporter, I don't want to eat the rich etc.
I'm just saying it's clear that Western society in general is kinda losing it. And that Sanders isn't a commie.
>>63708788
>3D printers make socialism doable.
Nigger how did you make that conclusion? Honestly curious.
>>63717690
>nearly all the worlds food supply
This was my ''what'' part.
>around 40% moves up
Source.
>you fucked up
I'm middle class. I'd probably be even far better off if my dad wasn't a degenerate gambler, but I'm doing fine.
I'm not American.
>>63717916
>Source.
>http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/
The upper and lower class have both expanded.
>I'm middle class. I'd probably be even far better off if my dad wasn't a degenerate gambler, but I'm doing fine.
why are you mooching off of your dad?
>I'm not American.
you tried I guess.
>>63718166
I'm 22, finishing my studies.
I nisam Amerikanac, nego Srbin.
>>63717854
Because you move the instruments of production in the hands of the people.
Of course, I mean a vastly superior version of 3d printer, not the shit we have today that can print cheap plastic in many hours.
>>63715356
>having a roof over your head and a cheap meal every day is a reward
Christ OP are you 16?
>>63704204
It doesn't.
100+ years of failure proves it.
Only retards, niggers and faggots want Socialism.
again, as a leftist, i think that the most important problem w/ the left is their tendency to vehemently reject meritocracy, & antagonize those who use capitalism as a means to vanquish poverty.
in summary, the 1st things that needs to be done is for the left is to make its members grow the fuck up
>>63719645
if "the people" were even close to intelligent enough to handle "the means of production" they would have been doing so.
>>63721638
& also, it's come to my attention that poor capitalists are more charitable than wealthy socialists.
& i was under the impression that charity was above all the most important value held by socialists.
it kind of made me disappointed in my fellow party members.
the very best thing any political party can do is engage in introspection, admit faults, & redact our values accordingly
>>63704204
Socialism doesn't work because it breaks down at some point, someone has to plan your activities for you. You don't get to decide what's right for you, someone else does. This has shown throughout history as a big failure.
China was able to lift the most people out of poverty in a very short time just by freeing it's economy.
>>63708844
Isn't one of the aims of dem. socialism to stimulate the economy through wealth redestribution?
So in this respect it does acheive an artificial increase in consumer confidence.
It really is a band-aid to the upwards transfer of wealth occuring.
He also seems to want to redistribute federal government spending towards the middle class (importantly tertiary education) rather than the M-I complex and natural resource subsidies.
Also, concentration on campaign finance reform may help reduce the anti-intellectual banter going on.
>>63704204
Are you referring to socialism as Marx theorized or socialism as in social democracy?
>>63722407
Got any examples of that? That sounds hilarious.
