Reminder that libertarian is a white middle class ideology (+ a few token others)
Every other group of people either come from third world peasant cultures where they vote for whoever gives them handouts, or they're islamists, or they're pragmatic nationalists are fine with a big government (japan/sk would be considered 'fascist' by sjw standards'.
Libertarianism is the ultimate cuck ideology. The only thing that is important to the libertarian cuck is money, every other value, his race, his traditions, his heritage, thrown out the window.
The reason why the republicans never do anything to win in the long-run is because they're infected by braindead jewish goldwater libertarianism, which reagan also inherited and act as another conman as a diluted libertarian. That's why even their judge appointments who are infected by this retarded ideology often end up flaking out. Neocons are basically diluted libertarians, who favor slightly larger governments and more interventionism but are otherwise exactly the fucking same.
>>61228371
too bad you don't actually know what libertarianism is
>>61228371
Reminder that "libertarianism" is a reactionary ideology and as such has almost no concrete definition. A lot of people in America claim to be libertarian but are actually anarcho-capitalists/left-leaning conservatives.
>>61228472
libertarianism = no faith in one's national heritage or culture, only money/low taxes.
It's a religion based on low taxes, which turns off normal people.
Neocons are libertarians with an added religious pandering element + slightly more interventionism and bigger government.
Reagan loved Goldwater.
>>61228602
Both Ancaps/Ansocs are totally retarded. Without a government, you'd just have a warlord society, which is basically monarchism.
>>61228842
This
>>61228673
Libertarian is a broad position. There are left and right libertarians, and ones that believe in strong private property rights and others that believe in socializing the means of production. All of them however believe in minimizing the state.
>libertarianism = no faith in one's national heritage or culture, only money/low taxes.
This posits that libertarianism is incompatible with heritage or culture which is false.
>It's a religion based on low taxes
Not necessarily, anarchism is a subset of libertarianism which implies no taxes.
>which turns off normal people.
No, it does not turn off most people because of economic freedoms, but because of other ideological misunderstandings. It really is just a fringe position that few people even dare to entertain but rather would precede it with "lol".
>Neocons are libertarians with an added religious pandering element + slightly more interventionism and bigger government.
Bigger government is contradictory to libertarianism and therefore is incompatible.
>>61228842
Not necessarily, it depends on the morality of the individuals.
>>61228842
>statist cuck is afraid of what will happen when big brother isn't there to hold his hand
>>61229052
It's called monarchism, which is what every single post-hunter-gatherer society has had for thousands of years of civilization.
Yes Libertarianism is defacto leftist. It's one of the tenants of the root of all the garbage we endure: the french revolution. Liberty, equality, fraternity.
It would only be good in a white state with enforced borders which is ironically against their own position.
>>61229158
*except for a couple of fringe states in ancient greece and a period of time in rome
>>61229158
Monarchism isn't anarchism, retard.
>>61229158
It's called a logical fallacy nigger just because something has always happened one way doesn't mean something else can't happen.
Flipping a coin 50 times and coming up heads every time doesn't mean the coin can't land on tails.
>>61229242
>Implying Equality of beginning is the same as this all kids get a trophy bullshit version of equality we choke down now.
>>61229571
It is, that's why you don't support equality in the first place, because it doesn't exist. So what happens is that you cucks support it, while others don't, and the others who come from more primitive societies (non-white middle class) get their way.
>>61229571
Not to mention the females who leech off of child support and welfare.
>>61229742
Libertarians support equality of opportunity and are stridently again affirmative action and redistribution.
>>61228371
Libertarianism in its purest form requires free exchange of labor in order to ensure a truly free market i.e. no borders. Libertarianism is anti-nation, individualist fedoralord bullshit. Almost as bad as atheism in terms of the cringeworthiness of its proponents.
>>61228371
>freedom
>cuckoldry
go suck uncle adolf's cock bootlicker
>>61229889
That's the point, that's what you support, but those people from more primitive cultures don't, that's why you lose, because like I said, libertarianism is very much so a white middle class thing.
>>61229242
>It would only be good in a white state with enforced borders which is ironically against their own position.
Not necessarily, minarchism would maintain a government to ensure military protection and security such as enforced borders to keep undesirables out.
>>61229889
>Libertarians support equality of opportunity
Not necessarily, for instance in a private school system some schools would be of lesser quality.
>>61229918
>Libertarianism in its purest form requires free exchange of labor in order to ensure a truly free market i.e. no borders
Not necessarily, a minimal state can enforce borders.
>Libertarianism is anti-nation, individualist fedoralord bullshit. Almost as bad as atheism in terms of the cringeworthiness of its proponents.
two memes in one post, congratulations
>>61229889
Equality of opportunity is inherently leftist. Truly conservative ideology seeks to preserve an inequality that is overall beneficial to the people. For example a border is a preserved inequality, the rights of the citizen are put over that of the 'human rights' of the average human.
You can see this in the fact that the extreme of left wing is communism, pure equality. While the extreme of right wing is oligrachy or Facism, inequality taken to the extreme.
>>61229989
>Not necessarily, for instance in a private school system some schools would be of lesser quality.
In a public school system some schools would be of a lesser quality, too.
>>61230235
I don't think you understand what equality of opportunity is.
>>61230336
>>61230273
See the contradiction? That's exactly how sjws win over moderate libertarians in appeal-to-emotion arguments. Who they can't win over are fascists, which is why the 1930s is the only period in history in which sjw values were actually reversed.
>>61230273
This is true, and brings a more crucial point that forcing equality of opportunity is both futile and detrimental. Letting the free markets serve the best needs of its customers is practical and effective.
>>61230950
There's no contradiction. You just refuse to see what I'm saying because you're an ideologue.
>>61228371
Libertarianism is an economics redpill plus a race bluepill.
They cling to egalitarianism like a life raft.
Libertarianism is an ideology for robots. Totally logical, utilitarian.
In that way it is inhuman. Human beings just aren't like this.
>>61231456
Give me an example of libertarians clinging to egalitarianism.
>>61231741
Humans aren't like what?
>>61228842
Yeah but Microsoft armed with nukes sounds really cool.
>>61231741
>I'm irrational
>>61232012
Human beings are not pure individuals.
They are nations, they are families, they are communities.
>>61232566
That doesn't justify a big state.
>>61232722
>My dubs are higher than your dubs
But it does justify some sense of nationalism and community. Such as border controls, regulations, standards for media, cultural reinforcement....etc.
Libertarians don't want cultural issues enforced by the state
>>61232566
Which nation are you? What sort of laws do you have?
>>61232566
Humans are pure individuals. Do the people you're associated with think for you? Do you have a sense of self? Just because one form communities and lives with family does not mean that we are not pure individuals. We form groups out of necessity and convenience, not because we can't function without them.
Every Libcuck should watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUZrDX5P7A
Libertarianism implies the end of the welfare state.
It is an ideology related to law and order. The fact it doesn't care about other things (agriculture, culture, energy, industries, etc.) does not mean it is against those, or even has a particular opinion about them.
It just means: the government shall defend justice, and nothing more.
In fact, libertarian societies would tend to be conservative, since without the welfare state the main source of welfare would become the family again, and then immediate neighbours, etc.
So people would defacto organize themselves along ethnic lines.
>>61232882
And if you don't believe me just look at which countries are the most cucked: Sweden, Germany, etc.
The ones with extensive welfare states and strong, powerful governments.
Switzerland is more based and much closer to a libertarian society, for example (in relative terms).
Do libertarians believe that the world currently operates on what they would consider a fair/free market? Why/why not?
>>61232868
If I were to rip you out of your community, you would be lesser. You would not reach your full potential as a human being.
If you were to grow up in Saudi Arabia where the people are totally different than you and you are an outcast, your children are outcasts, you have no community or nation, you would be like a vagrant.
>>61232841
Culture and the state are completely independent so I don't understand why you are trying to associate them in any way.
>>61233032
>Culture and the state are completely independent
You're fucking retarded
>>61232051
Name all wars Microsoft was involved in. Then name all wars the USA was involved in.
>>61233030
What? So aware you going to remove me as I am now or would I have been born that way? If you were to do it now, I'd obviously already hold the values I do now and would do everything in my power to excel by my own merit. I don't need 'the nation' to hold my hand and if I do then I don't deserve anything. If I were an outcast, I would leave. That's it. You're acting as if people can't move or find places that cater to people like them.
>>61233107
Fantastic rebuttal.
>>61233012
No.
It could be worse, but there are a few significant issues:
* the implicit bailout of banks and even large corporations like GM removes a fundamental control mechanism of a free market (bankruptcy)
* the extensive powers of governments mean they are being lobbied by large corporations; another fundamental control mechanism (competition) is damaged
* central banks interventions affect decisions on a very large scale basis (to the point that investment decisions in countries like Australia are influenced by policies of the Fed)
But, again, it could be worse. We still have relatively free markets and capitalism.
>>61233107
They are. Are all German people supportive of refugees? Are all Swedes progressive feminists? Their states are so they must all be then. See how you're not making any sense? Jews held together their culture and traditions even when they literally had no state.
>>61233107
I'm pretty sure that, in history, states have destroyed more culture than they've protected.
>>61233120
>Microsoft
Console wars
>USA
Shit man I gotta sleep tonight
>>61233195
Spot on.
>>61233208
The younger ones are.
>>61233282
How many people died in the console wars?
The only corporations interested in war are ones producing weapons of war. Their only client is the government.
>>61233304
No they are not.
>>61228842
>if the old government doesn't hold a gun to my head, the new government will hold a gun to my head waaaah
I read that as "I have given up living, so I don't care if I live in an Islamic shithole of a country".
If everyone was afraid if new thins like you are, Donald Trump would be dead in the water and USA would have no hope just like EU.
>>61233429
So state doesn't influence culture. Great. Do I need to make a Nazi argument?
>>61233429
>The only corporations interested in war are ones producing weapons of war. Their only client is the government.
Hanz please, light small arms sell like hotcakes worldwide to civilians.
>>61228842
> We need a permanent centralized authoritarian ruler to take decisions for all of us !
>>61233569
>>61233493
Wait do you want to use the Nazis as an argument AGAINST libertarianism?
>>61233501
>civilian small arms
>war
I know you probably smoked like 59 bongs today but please try and read. There is a difference between companies producing tanks and warships and companies producing AR-15s with tacticool accessoires.
>>61233429
Microsoft goes to the US government to complain about trade issue with [x] country --> US government sends Navy over to [x] country's waters -->Microsoft gets better agreements. Seriously, why do you think governments and military exist? Just to give officials big pensions? They are the executive and military branch of the nation's corporations.
> A smaller goverment = mateprialism, destroy your heritage and your culture.
> Big goverment= Decency, spiritualism and preserving values.
Implying this means that you know nothing about history. The lost of traditional values has happened under big goverments mostly.
No wonder only beta and degenerate cucks are natsoc nowadays. It is just an ideology meant for sissies that hide their own inferiority on their heritage, implying that it makes them stronger
>>61228673
>no faith in one's national heritage or culture
Libertarians believe one's heritage and culture can prevail without government support. In comparison, you seem to lack faith in the strength of your "culture".
>>61233694
>There is a difference between companies producing tanks and warships and companies producing AR-15s with tacticool accessoires.
Not to the liberals.
>>61233120
Microsoft gets in wars in it's own way (they aren't allowed to be violent).
Anyway, you're operating under the assumption that "all war is bad". This simply isn't true, sometimes wars are necessary.
When two competing ideologies clash, it's necessary to have a trial by fire to determine which of the two is stronger and has the right to live on and reproduce itself. This process has overall resulted in much progress in human history. The Romans were the strongest, and therefore managed to spread their values all over Europe, resulting in Roman law being flung far and wide, and Europe advancing out of it's primitive state.
You basically want to devolve Capitalism into a less centralized form (so that it can happen all over again). What's the point? That's a step backwards.
>>61231741
Libertarianism is probably the most organic political system there is. It is based around property and voluntary trade. Saying that something like socialism, that is basically the control of burocrats over everything is more natural just shows how misinformed you are.
>>61233812
The point of libertarianism is to make that impossible.
How can you not grasp that simple concept? I know Greece can't into economics but you must realize that a small government would not be lobbied by corporations because it would have no power over the economy.
You are using things happening right now in our authoritarian big government world to argue against a system that would make those very things virtually impossible.
Wtf are you doing
>>61233850
Is that a midget tranny?
What a world we live in that we can see these things
>>61228371
>americuck thinking he has traditions, heritage or has anything left from his traitor ancesters who fled to americuckistan
lol fatass, protip: you have no culture, flipping burgers and drinking big gulps excluded, you're as much related to god tier europeans as much as nigs to wewuzkingsandsheeeeit.
americucks are like zebras in a zoo, on a continent they don't belong to. all your culture and "heritage" is artificial, a mere dream of what god tier europeans have.
now look amerifat, start accepting that your shit tier country will be ruled by spics because it actually belongs to them.
>>61234036
The corporations themselves would form a government to protect their interests, goy. You just want to re-do what has already happened. Good job.
>>61228371
>very other value, his race, his traditions, his heritage.
> Has literally nothing to be proud of
>Uses the achievements of people that he will never meet to validate is meaningless existence
>>61233820
This.
You can refuse a government authority, it doesn't mean you would gladly live with muslims or support race-mixing.
You can decide to and use your purchasing power to live with like-minded whites if you so wish.
Living according to your ideas is actually easier without a government to force its own progressive ideology on you.
>>61233850
Are you a liberal?
>>61233963
I never said war was bad. Libertarians can go to war to defend themselves, their nations etc.
My point in this chain of arguments was that is idiotic to support a big government because you are afraid of Microsoft buying nukes, because it's big government who has started wars all over the world, not Microsoft.
It's like saying: "I support being a slave to this violent tyrant, because that guy with the horses might buy a weapon sometimes"
>>61234048
you mean a world with photshop.
>>61234101
Sadly this is right, America isn't a real nation, not even whilte america because it sucked up so many immigrants from different nations of europe and homogenized them into one group of consumerist cultureless suburban goyim. That 50's dream was a big deception.
If anything only certain regions (Texas and the south for example) have real "national identity" due to being largely anglo founding stock descendents. Seperatism would be the only way to have a real traditional society in America
>>61234035
Human beings aren't about numbers and cost and maximization algorithms. They aren't robots.
Human beings are emotion, feelings, and traditions. They are alive.
>>61234101
>you have no culture
We do, it's just been forgotten.
>>61234207
When did I claim that libertarianism was supposed to be an eternally stable system that could never be disturbed?
'The tree of liberty from time to time must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots'
Are you the type of person who doesn't get on a plane because it MIGHT crash?
>>61234277
Humans functioned best in a pre-industrial agricultural society, with NEITHER an overly intrusive state nor a corporate machine.
>>61234366
No, no. The thing is we already know what will happen with this plan. It happened 200 years ago. Remember when Germany was dozens of smaller Kingdoms who competed with one another? That evolved into the Big Government. Why? It was more efficient. The same will haplen again.
>>61234277
Exactly. That is why more libertarian societies fare better than ones controlled centrally by bureaucrats.
You can't reduce people to statistics.
Governments should only ensure law and order.
But it should not intervene in how people want to transport themselves, produce energy and so on through taxes and subsidies.
Same thing regarding culture and traditions. You can't enforce them through government, almost by definition.
>>61234207
>The corporations themselves would form a government to protect their interests, goy. You just want to re-do what has already happened. Good job.
If the people don't support the government, it won't last.
>>61234486
More efficient for what?
>>61234493
this is why we need a minarchy
>>61234493
What branches of gov't do you eant to cut?
>>61234439
Yeah humans were functioning really well when they were under the suffering of nature: natural disasters and disease. The agricultural and industrial revolutions were emergent creations from humans in order to get as far away from the shit nature is.
>>61234529
For everything. From production, to managing human affairs, which also relate to production. You can't have industry without workers.
>>61234493
Yes, the key is culture is built bottom-up like the free market. It is not a top-down construction like the state and religion.
>>61234557
Everything except police, justice, defence and diplomacy. And tax collection to support those.
We're not doing too badly here actually. We continue to privatize infrastructure like roads, electricity generators, electric grid and so on.
I don't see why governments should get involved in schools, hospitals, etc. except obviously in matters of law and order (i.e. a school cannot endanger its students, a hospital has a responsibility to protect life, industries cannot pollute the environment, etc.)
But otherwise I'm fine for industries to set their prices and decide what and how they want to produce goods and services.
>>61234689
There you go, you've got it.
The government must be an extension of the culture and the people must control the government
>>61234837
Do you currently have public schooling/healthcare?
SHILL THREAD ALERT.
Kill yourself OP
>>61229052
>afraid of what will happen when big brother isn't there
Because there is nothing to fear in nations where the government has weakened to the point where outside interests have been able to move in and carve up what they want/destabilise everything right?
>>61234859
No.
>>61235002
>smaller government = weaker government
statist shill pls
>>61235002
Small goverment=/= weak goverment. Having a goverment that regulates hate speech wont make military stronger
Having a goverment that fixes prices wont make military stronger
Having a goverment that regulates what you can do wont make military stronger.
>>61235276
>larger government = weaker government
This is a fun game.
>>61235421
A smaller government does not necessitate a weaker government just as a larger government does not necessitate a weaker government. They are independent. That was a strawman, and your reasoning skills are piss poor because your IQ is standard deviations below mine statist shill.
What the fuck Ameritards?
Right up until the fucking Roosevelts cucked your country right into taxation, it was the epitome of what a libertarian country is.
>libertarians are actually okay with China fucking us raw because muh free market
>>61235613
The Roosevelts coincidentally made America important.
>>61235648
>muh assumptions with no basis
>>61235702
Why is being 'important' important?
>>61232959
>The ones with extensive welfare states and strong, powerful governments.
on the flip side of the coin so was nazi germany. just because there is a strong state doesn't mean the country has to be cucked.
>>61235527
A smaller government that also permits mass immigration, eliminates all checks on corporate power/activity and minimises taxes, military spending, social programs and infrastructure spending is weaker.
>>61235751
American industries needed to expand to foreign markets at the time. Should we stop historical development?
>>61235808
>A smaller government that a b c d e f and g is weaker
I'm seeing a slippery slope emerging
>>61235808
Without infrastructure spending and an educated, healthy workforce, industry will plummet.
>>61235935
Yeah, and they were doing so without government interference. America was already the largest economy in the world by 1900 and was undisputed leader by the 1920s. Tell me more about how horrible we were before the advent of state worship.
>>61236012
Industry grew exponentially in the mid-to-late 1800s in America, at a time where all of the things you mentioned were rather scarce and government control was basically non-existent. You're just making uneducated assumptions here. Businesses, private individuals, churches, etc could provide these services, and in a more efficient way than government. It's what was happening at the time, then government fucked it up.
