Islamic Golden Age
Did it really happen?
>>60029489
No, they nearly destroyed Greek mathematics on top of it.
No it was all stolen from the Greeks
>>60029489
It happened, ever heard of the arabic numerals?
0123456789
No. Arabs stole all the knowledge from the Greek and Romans, then flaunted about it being theirs.
>asking about Islamic history on an anti-islam board
You stupid OP
>>60029663
Pure, unbiased facts are not anti-anything.
The Islamic Golden Age meme is so significant because it was the end of Roman-Greek influence in the area.
>>60029489
it did
>>60029489
the islamic world had good trade links with most of the known world at the time e.g europe and china/india so they figured out what the chinks and indians knew and then figured out what the europeans knew slaped all these foreign ideas together and declared it their own.
>>60029716
You're a bluepilled idiot if you think /pol/ would be unbias on this subject. I doubt most people ITT have even studied the period.
>>60029489
Oh, and then they stole a bunch of logic from the Hindus as well like the concept of zero.
To be fair if the Arabs did anything, they bridged a lot of these ideas together.
>/pol/ claims the islamic golden age was just stolen greco-roman knowledge
>the successors of rome (western europe) were living in wooden huts and actively shunned ancient knowledge as pagan and un-christian
>places where rome never had influence like persia were better than rome itself
>even greece wasn't as prosperous as muslim lands
>>60029489
If by golden age you mean that they stopped killing each other for like 2 centuries during which a maximum of 4 people in the entire Islamic world caught up with Ancient Greek knowledge...
Then yes.
For them it's probably the pinnacle of their civilization, so don't take it lightly...
What's really interesting is what was happening in the Middle East in the 1800's.
Yes, it happened. No it wasn't their own doing. They were literally building off of what was done before hand. Nothing wrong with that, Greeks after all were building off of older civilizations.
During the period of Islamic Golden Age, Islamic World was in it's infancy. It was the dying embers of much older and grander civilizations in the area. They did a lot for mathematics, sciences and astronomy. Giving the western world their numbers which were way better at doing math with than Roman Numerals.
However infancies don't last long and they collapsed back into barbarians. It wasn't until 1920s and the finding of oil did they become relevant again. However they never did grow out of the tribal stage, or sectarian tribalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
inb4 >wikipedia
prove it wrong
>>60029929
I just read the history on early mathematics. To be fair, Germans contributed even less.
As for trade, they had slavery going, not exactly something that liberals should want to gloat about.
>>60029489
>loot, pillage and destroy all the libraries in North Africa
>preserve a few books
>export them to Spain
>claim that WE WUZ SCIENCE N SHIIET, RAFIQ
>call it Golden Age
>>60030010
>even Greece wasn't as prosperous as muslim lands
Thats not true. Greece was the economic heart of the Roman empire, and later as Byzantine empire, it was the richest place on the planet.
You'll never guess who put en end to that...
>>60029929
/pol/ is surely biased and that's good, but historical facts are not. Expressing them is always neutral.
>>60029613
>It happened, ever heard of the arabic numerals?
You mean Indian numerals?
>>60030321
Pretty much the only actual invention Islamic golden age brought about was distillation.
>>60029489
It did happens BUT THOSE FUCKING SAND NIGGERS STOLE OUR AND GREECE.KNOWLEDGE AND BUILT THEIR SHIT ON IT
If anything, their Golden Age is right now. Islam has never been so strong across the world than it is today. It's the fastest growing religion and the 'refugees' are making sure it reaches every corner of the world.
>>60030290
> Greece was the economic heart of the Roman empire
more like egypt
>>60030391
You're an ancient Greek? Was your people athenians and shit?
>>60029489
No. Europe is so great that when the Muslims allowed themselves to translate a few European translators they lived much better lives. The major failing of every society is abuses of power intended and often succeeding to preserve the status quo. Muslims are massively guilty of this. They reject better ideas so they don't have to change. Compare the Chinese Boxer Rebellion. And for most Muslim societies this type of rejection and self-limiting is their main mode of social analysis.
>>60029489
>collect scientific knowledge from dissolving of the of Western Roman Empire
>couple hundred years after this go all WE WUZ SCIENTISTS N SHIT
>>60030290
>You'll never guess who put en end to that...
the crusaders
>>60030368
Don't forget goat fucking.
>>60029489
tldr; it's mostly a deal because europe went dark
Full disclosure: every Muslim I've ever met is bro-tier, and I'm personally euphedoric.
Historyfag here.
Undergrad in poli sci and int'l law, master's in history from F.I.T., 2002.
It's not nice to say it /didn't/ happen, but ... it kinda didn't happen. Middle-age "Islamic" science, medicine, and philosophy has very tenuous ties to Islam itself. It's closer to "Arab and Berber golden age" than anything. During late Rome, greco-egyptians were doing great things in the medical field, and Muslims now claim responsibility for this, as well as "holding the books" of Plato et al.
And it's /mostly/ a golden age in that Europe is seen as a backwater at the time--after the collapse of Rome--and that is for several reasons that aren't quite correct either:
>It was deemed a "dark age" by quatro-ciento Italian philosophers who didn't identify with Christians so much, so of course they didn't appreciate the beauty of Christian philosophy
>There was indeed a dearth of lit that survived the "dark ages," which was why the term was initially coined. Researchers found a great gap in source material from Europe, and only stuff from the Arabs, transmitted by Muslim-enforced trade routes. Those routes, extending into the Med. were vital in shutting down the Euros' ability to "talk" to us with source material.
>>60030499
Oh please that is so pre-islamic Arabia.
>>60030453
Knows about ancient Greece and Athens knows nothing about ancient Egypt 100% retarded anglo
If by golden age you mean destruction. Sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG9ONF3CWV8
>>60030488
Well, yeah tbqh.
If it weren't for the crusaders the fall of Constantinople wouldn't have happened.
But the notion that Islam was experiencing a golden age is still questionable. Consider this: Under the Roman emperors the Balkans and Anatolia were the richest places in the world. And of course they were. They are in a strategic position, have temperate climate and are full of resources.
But they were never rich again under Ottoman (Islamic) rule ...
>>60029489
Yup. While yuropoors were acting like wild animals, the muslims retained and expanded old world knowledge which Europeans would later on use.
>>60030488
>>60030488
Their own interior fraction technically.
>>60029489
It did. But contrary to what islam-apologists try to say, it didn't end because of the Crusades. The seeds for destruction of arabic science were sown by a philosopher called al-Ghazali, who pretty much said that things like aristotelean logic and experimentation are not islamic. As his ideas spread, the world of islam became more devout, but also more and more scientifically illiterate.
Math was satanic in the 9th century to Islam and they killed all of the smart people. Muhammad using sabotage did more damage to the Middle East than any Mongol invasion could've dreamed.
>>60030796
There isn't a risk the fall would have occured earlier?
>>60029489
It was real, but it was basically because of stuff the Muslims stole from Persians and Byzantines. There was a golden age, despite them being Muslims, not because of them being Muslims. That's the important thing to understand.
Guess who put end to the crusaders oooh yeah the kingdom of Egypt ;)
>>60029489
Rape and pillage age would be a better description.
>>60029553
>>60029489
>>60029571
>>60029615
>>60029724
>>60029954
>>60030010
>>60030119
>>60030207
>>60030290
i enter this thread because i knew that white people will be saying that it was all romans and greeks when even arabs and other muslim have admitted always that it was iranians knowledge that give birth to the islamic golden age
>On the long-term impact of this battle, Sir Muhammad Iqbal wrote: "If you ask me what is the most important event in the history of Islam, I shall say without any hesitation: “The Conquest of Persia.” The battle of Nehawand gave the Arabs not only a beautiful country, but also an ancient civilization; or, more properly, a people who could make a new civilisation with the Semitic and Aryan material. Our Muslim civilisation is a product of the cross-fertilisation of the Semitic and the Aryan ideas. It is a child who inherits the softness and refinement of his Aryan mother, and the sterling character of his Semitic father. But for the conquest of Persia, the civilisation of Islam would have been one-sided. The conquest of Persia gave us what the conquest of Greece gave to the Romans."[16]
its amazing how pathetic and stupid you people are
>>60030812
But look at what you're saying:
Muslims were simply /less barbaric/ than Euros, and they held the books of the Euros while they experienced the effects of judeo-christianity.
>>60029489
Yes and no.
You can call it an Arabian golden age, but the knowledge gained had nothing to do with Islam. The religion just played a role in acquiring the resources necessary for scientific advancement.
>>60029613
It's indian/Persian like the Rest of Islamic science
>>60030992
Guess who defeated the Seljuk ooooh yeah the Egyptian kingdom guess who defeated the ottomans after fleeing from their rule and.took 70% oh yeah the Egyptian kingdom guess who defeated the mongols who tried to invade Europe and Africa oh yeah the Egyptian kingdom
>>60031148
>they held the books of the Euros
they didnt
>>60031226
>who defeated the mongols who tried to invade Europe and Africa oh yeah the Egyptian kingdom
they didnt defend europe, they just defended themselves to not get conquered
>>60030996
>Muslims stole from Persians and Byzantines
they destroyed everything from the byzantines
>>60031226
And now look at you
>>60031139
It's amazing that you can read that and not understand that Iqbal is saying exactly what the people you're calling stupid are saying!
>>60031238
They didn't hold Greek philosophy texts dear while Europe was undergoing the throes of Christianity?
Wanna check again?
>>60031329
what?
they are all saying IT WAS GREEKS AND ROMANS, EUROPEANS ARE DA BEST
when in reality it was iranians and not europeans
>>60031148
They used books from India too.
>>60031164
>Arabian golden age
The Berbers and the Persians played a big role too. Naming it the 'Islamic golden age' would encompass all those groups.
>>60031328
Well fc>>60031320
xk you anglo since 4000 b.c and we have been doing good stuff but well Anglo looks like you are right we are shit tier country
And yes we defeated mongols look up ain jault war we cucked them so hard
>>60031413
they destroyed everything, that was haram for them
they also destroyed most of books of the iranians and some iranians learned arabs and started translating the few books that they didnt destroy
>>60031164
>Arabian golden age
Arabs were always stupid and are still worthless trash, they can't produce anything (E.g. Gulf States, everything in their country is almost made/run by foreigners), while Iran still produces many things on his own and has a great history of achievements
>Arabs
>Not like Niggers
>>60030532
>Middle-age "Islamic" science, medicine, and philosophy has very tenuous ties to Islam itself.
And suddenly, everything clicked. Thanks for the answer.
ITT :
IT WUZ THE GEEKS AND RUMANS !
>>60031555
>4000 b.c
you arent the ancient egyptians
>>60031555
>yes we defeated mongols
you just stopped their campaign to conquer egypt, they still kept their empire
>>60031139
>it was the persians
No shit faggot
>>60031603
>(E.g. Gulf States, everything in their country is almost made/run by foreigners)
that is false
>>60031603
>while Iran still produces many things on his own and has a great history of achievements
they are arabs just like gulf arabs
they arent the ancient iranians
>>60029489
Happened about as much as the Dark ages (ie. It didn't)
>>60031461
If you don't understand the veneration and importance of Greek philosophers to the Muslim golden age, you're not prepared for this discussion.
>>60031749
Iranians*
the entire regio was called persia because the empire at the moment was persian
Like almost everyone else on /pol/ I haven't studied the period so i don't know and I'm a history student.
>>60031328
Almost makes me wonder what happened their once so great country?
>>60029489
No. There was nothing "Islamic" about it since most of the contributers were Assyrians and Persians
>>60031794
what is your source you stupid faggot?
fucking arabs themselves havd admitted it was iranians that gave to the islamic golden age
they havent said anything about greeks
the world doesnt revolve around europe
Numeral system was invented by India, Arabs took it, slightly improved it, and transmitted it to Europe.
Also they translated a book on math from India and took it into Europe.
They didn't do a whole lot of original work but did some good stuff unifying concepts that were developed separately from one another.
It happened but it was vastly overrated. What others have said about them basically borrowing the ideas of the classical Greeks is correct. This was knowledge that they came across after subjugating Syriac-speaking Nestorian Christians. The equally borrowed from the Chinese and Indians.
In terms of their own contributions to the sciences, these came mainly in the fields of optics, magnetism, and medicine. Figures like al-Kindi quite literally just adapted Hellenistic philosophy to an Arab-Islamic framework.
>>60031829
Tldr
Every society struggles with change.
Almost all try to stop it and go stagnant.
Europe, because of its lack of centralized authority, went the other way and as a result dominated the world for centuries.
A society that successfully limits what can be read cannot have a Golden Age and can only make incremental material gains from superior societies.
>>60031686
Are you . Retardes faggot troll or a shitposter we are same people by DNA test.you nigger plus look up mongols history faggot nigger we are the reason why they got cucked
>>60031878
We gave ours up. We're nice like that.
Anyway you're one to talk my fellow fucked nation.
>>60032015
>as a result dominated the world for centuries.
hahahahaha
this is what white people believe
>>60032037
This post
>>60031890
haahahahahah lmao XD
>>60032056
Kek that fag thinks that you Anglos suck now the british empire was too big to handle plus you are stronger this way
>>60031890
>he doesn't know farabi and kindi streamlined aristotlean thought into arabic jurisprudence
Why do you think averroes was praised so much? Because he came up with it? Nah mate, he was fighting against the ashari (read : anti-mutazilite) movement started by alghazelus a hundred years before to bring it back into their culture.
>>60032203
please learn some english
>>60032037
I want to keep you as a pet. I can unleash you on any Finnish burglars.
Falsafa is a Greek loanword meaning "philosophy".
Pic related, arab art depicting the persi....I mean SOCRATES teaching his pupils.
>>60032248
source
>>60032015
Wasn't it only because of the strongly centrialized catholic church western europe atually preserved and the Karolingian renaissance from the strong frankish empire we began making progress? The enlightenment even started in the absolute monarchy of France.
>>60032037
The English coming out of the sand nigger countries is like fifty rungs below that of white countries. Jesus fucking christ, my head hurts.
>>60032037
your ancestors are the ones to came and destroyed the civilization that created the pyramids
>>60032056
As expected from one of cuck country
>>60029615
Don't forget the Persians. The Arabs also stole a lot of knowledge from the Persians.
>>60031555
Anon must be Macedonian.
>>60031890
Wew lad
>>60029489
They conquered the Byzantines and used their knowledge for a couple of centuries before the constant infighting and stupidity of their religion tore it all down. So I guess yes, technically.
It's just a good thing that westerners stole it back before the mudfucks burned it all down.
Take a look at what ISIS is doing even today: destroying ancient history and knowledge because it's non-Muslim. When Muslims have no one to fight they just start destroying shit around them, and then eventually start destroying themselves. It's a destructive religion by its very foundation.
>>60031810
Dont be autistic, the "aryans" went through so many periods and names in history that it really depends where you want to start.
>>60032269
>Finnish burglars
No such thing, Finland is a nation of peace.
You fucking fennophobe shitlord.
>>60032358
dont reply to him, he is a idiot
>>60032288
Read a book if you dont know either of the names I used.
>>60029613
Though they might have originated from there, nowadays they don't even resemble that much, but let's give credit where it's due, they did a whole bunch of stuff on álgebra, chemistry, literature, among other fields
>>60029489
It was heavily romanticized by Enlightment philosophers like Voltaire. That's were the myth started
>>60031627
You're welcome.
I'd say all rational inquiry is inherently anti-religious. Interesting discussion of Jesus as "logos" aside, a bastion of thought that ultimately relies on faith is by nature anti-rational.
>>60031981
>Syriac-speaking Nestorian Christians.
They're called Assyrians my friend
>>60032286
>>60032269
>>60032115
>>60032015
>>60031878
GIYS‚ IGNORE THIS NIGGER JUST TRIES TO DENY ALL THE CIVILZATIONS BECAUSE HE I. A CIVILIZATIONLESS FAGGOTS THAT NIGGER WILL JUST DENY ANY FACTS ABOUT HOW THE BRITISH EMPIRE WAS THE.BIGGEST EMPIRE ETC AND WILL DENY THE ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS TOO STUPID NIGGER LMAO
>>60030000
>the successors of rome (western europe) were living in wooden huts and actively shunned ancient knowledge as pagan and un-christian
maybe the anglo and germanic savages in the northwest...
>>60032435
>They conquered the Byzantines
hhahahhaha
>>60032440
its depend of the current empire, its a parthian empire, the region is called parthia, its the roman empire, they are called romans, etc
>>60032544
>>60030000
>>places where rome never had influence like persia were better than rome itself
yeah, no.
No Muslims has ever walked on the Moon.
/checkmate
>>60032075
This is how africans cope with being irrelevant.
>>60032544
Dude, i were refering to how it's the eternal anglos fault you fell
>>60032488
>they did a whole bunch of stuff on álgebra, chemistry, literature, among other fields
Nope, algebra comes from Greeks and Persians that were later conquered by Muslim armies. Mostly Arab Muslims claimed credit, but that's the pattern -- they conquer and claim they "invented" things that the people thay conquered created before Islam. Muslims are pathological liars, and once they run out of cultures to conquer and assimilate, their civilization rots and withers.
> http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/09/03/they-came-they-saw-they-plagiarized-1001-so-called-muslim-inventions-virtually-none-of-which-were-actually-invented-by-muslims/
> http://enzaferreri.blogspot.com/2013/08/how-muslims-did-not-invent-algebra.html#axzz3wI4lA3cN
nah. maybe a few good things happened but wouldn't call it a golden age
we wuz kangz tier revisionism
>>60032456
I will reply to him, you faggot.
>>60032649
>yeah, no.
what?
they were at the same level in knowledge and sometimes in power
Pic related
if the Sassanid empire would have conquer central asia and united all the iranians under 1 empire the rome empire would have been ravaged
>>60032911
well fuck you then bitch
>>60029489
it did because there was ONE based guy who allowed people to learn and then afterwards: nothing,
>>60029489
Well, yes. The Islamic world had a Golden Age. The mistake that is often made, however, is to think that either Islam or the Arabs had any hand in it. The Islamic Golden Age was mostly based on the translation, comment and research of previous works by Greeks, Han Chinese people and Indians, amongst other things numbers ("zero" is either Egyptian or Indian in origin, not Arab). Another very interesting fact is that most scientists from that era were of Iranian or Spanish descent and were mostly not Arabs.
>>60032544
>the middle east
>uncultured
Come on family, I know things have been pretty shitty for the orient since 1699 but still, no need to lie.
>>60032976
Fuck you too, you smelly shit-skin.
>>60032917
this carving is haraam please delete this
>>60032882
>algebra comes from Greeks
no
>>60033020
Zero is Indian in origin.
>>60033060
Well we found traces of a similar concept in Ancient Egypt. That's why I included it. But yeah, technically, "our" zero is Indian.
>>60033030
no
fuck you mongoloid nigger pigskin what eever you are
>>60032882
A good amount of algebra knowledge comes from Indians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmagupta
>>60031885
Assyrians are gay ass cowards and way too irrelevant since thousands of years
Sort of. But people think that strict adherence to contemporary strict interpretations of Islam had something to do with it.
>>60033020
>Spanish descent
there werent such a thing
>>60033120
>>60029489
We wuz scholarz n shit
>>60032589
Then in that case we should call them buyids, abassids, seljuk and so on since in those proto-feudalistic days the concept on nationality/nationalism did not even exist.
"Khorasanian" then maybe?
>>60029489
No, everything science and mathematical was stolen from the Designated Street Shitters and the Greeks. Well, except for man on man anal sex, the Greeks stole that from the Arabs.
>>60033181
Well the scientists from Al-Andalus weren't exactly Arabs.
>>60033185
well see pic related
you see the province called persia?
that was the home of the persians and only on that land you heard the persian language
others had their own language and culture
>>60033313
They were berber
If Celts for example would have preserved and translated ancient text to the extent that happened there you'd be all going ZOMNG MASTER REIZ
Keep moving them goal posts
>>60033183
They try this to defend Islam. They say it's "scientifically accurate", while it's clearly not...I mean the greatests experts of the Qur'an believe the earth is flat, for fuck's sake....
>>60033020
This. Its not as if the middle east was some primitive area before islam. It was already a great center of learning.
In all fairness to our non-white guests, we do need to admit that we are coming from a place of privilege. We cannot understand what it's like to *not* be the race that is known as the authors of modern civilization.
This privilege surrounds us and blinds us to the fact that marginalized groups (some who are not yet civilized, and some who had to be dragged into modernity kicking and screaming) need to be able to dig into the footnotes of history to find their own relevance, however tangential to the subject.
"Oh look, a connection to Persia," they might say, totally ignoring the fact that Alexander the Great was a thing.
Civilization + power = privilege^(current year)
>>60033438
and some people dont understand that byzantine and Sassaniand empire were in their golden age
basically ME without arabia were in their golden age
>>60033170
>based razi
He got BTFO by ibn sina (avicenna) but still his contributions to medicine were bretty good. Including the discovery that fever was one of the human body's reaction to infections.
The problem with the islamic golden age is that all the good it did was rendered impotent by al ghazali's "incoherence of the philosophers". Hence why averroes called his counter response "incoherence of the incoherents". Sadly it never was enough to turn back the ship.
Islamic intellectuals to this day still consider ghazali to be a "proof of islam", which in respect is a title even superior to sheihk ul islam (the arabic equivalent of "doctor of the church" eg. Aquinas). Says it all really.
>>60033143
No. Fuck you, you smelly shit-skin.
>>60033401
FUCK. I always forget about the Berbers. And yet they're so much better than the Arabs...
>>60033482
>Alexander the Great
a barbaria that adopted many persians traditions?
and even took persians arquitect to macedon
the achaemenid was about to fall, the kings were corrupt and no one didnt want to fight for them, that is why they lost the war with greece
Islam is a mountain of lies and deceit. Of course there was no Islamic golden age. Muslims are sex obsessed goat herding sand-monkeys.
>>60033671
no
you fuck you smelly bitch
>>60031238
You stupid fucking Dominican monkey
Greek was one of the official languages of the Persian Empire. Yes that includes muh Aryans.
To act like they had no interactions, and took nothing from Greek scientific discoveries and philosophical writings is inaccurate.
>>60033438
Well the only relevant thing that Islam brought to the Arabs was unity. Same thing as with Europe and Christianity.
>>60033708
>Alexander the Great
>a barbaria that adopted many persians traditions
top kek, you're one stupid nigger.
>>60032056
That is the most cuck reason i have ever heard
>We gave up Singapore to Imperial Japan, We're nice like that
>>60033741
>Greek was one of the official languages of the Persian Empire
what?
are you this stupid you pigskin smelly fag
>>60033741
>took nothing from Greek scientific discoveries and philosophical writings is inaccurate.
they didnt you idiot
if so why alexander adopted many persians traditions and took persians arquitects to macedon, idiot
>>60033382
Of course. That doesn't mean the farsi/parsi language and culture didn't quickly become the dominant one in the future "iranian" region.
Eg. The franks came to dominate france under Clovis and later germany under Charlemagne. Does that suddenly mean we should stop referring to old france as french just because the franks only came from the northern regions of france and belgium/netherlands in casual conversations?
I see your point but it's semantics that belong in research papers and essays, not a wannabe chink imageboard.
>>60033827
>you're one stupid nigger.
read some history you stupid pigskin subhuman
>>60033889
>Alexander took some architects and that means he stole EVERYTHING from the Persians and Persians didnt take anything from Greece
just kill yourself, your historical knowledge is fucking laughable.
>>60029489
It's all propaganda by the muzzies. Never trust a muzzie. They are worse than the jews.
>>60033929
>That doesn't mean the farsi/parsi language and culture didn't quickly become the dominant one in the future "iranian" region.
lol that was AFTER ARAB INVASIONS
and it happened because many arabs had to learn persian to understand the books they didnt destroy
they mongrelized persian culture and while mixing with other iranians they imposed that language on them and that is how you get your modern "iranian"
>>60033889
>>60034071
>say a muzzie
>>60034009
hahaaha
read some history
>>60034119
that wasnt a persian empire, idiot
you are just a troll
>>60033932
He himself didn't since he died pretty sharpish after extending into iran. The seleucid dynasty (and later the parthians & sassanids )did though.
It's pointless to argue that neither the greeks nor the assyrians had no cultural influence on either, let alone that they had any of their own. Ancient civilizations simply did not behave or think like we do about such things.
>>60034141
>The Seleucid Empire was a Hellenistic state
No you're right shitskin, the Hellenistic period had nothing to do with the Greeks.
Alexander pillaged the fuck out of the Persians, but yeah dude, he just copied them you're totally right.
They're having golden-haired underaged women in europe right now.
>>60034254
k. you were educated in a school with dirt floors so I don't blame you for being retarded
>>60034364
>He himself didn't since he died pre
its in his history
have you read about him?
>>60034364
the sassanid didnt
look it up
>>60034141
>say a muzzie
Me not a muzzie anymore. Me an ex-muzzie atheist.
>>60031139
http://www.academia.edu/8749355/Islamic_Inventions_were_Roman_Greek_and_Persian
Just read the whole thing
>>60034427
>>60034461
you are confused
we are talking about a Persian empire using greeks as official language and that didnt happen
>>60031139
Before Baghdad happened though they had already gone full reaction and had begun to persecute scientists they found to be anti-islamic as well as artists.
Everyone always ignores this and blames the end of their run on the Mongols, but that's simply not correct, the Abbasid Caliphate had already swung conservative and militaristic toward the end of it's tenure.
>>60034814
>>60034080
>lol that was AFTER ARAB INVASIONS
Exactly. There is no point in arguing what they were before since we're talking about iran during the islamic golden age, not the achaemenid/parthian/sassanian kind. Or even further if you want to unclude the babylonian/assyrian eras.
Point is that persians/iranians/whatever you want to call them were responsible for much of the intellectual contributions of the golden age. Even the bad ones like ghazali.
Ultimately what killed the islamic enlightenment was the resurgence of the faith in response to the mutalizite movement. Look up the ashar'i history, you'll see.
>>60034814
AN official language doesn't mean thats what every single person spoke, but they spoke it there.
just like French is an official language in Canada but only one province really uses it.
>>60031139
Greeks improved what Babylonians and Egyptians did.
>>60029489
Alot of them were athiests
>>60035012
oh lol
that was an Hellenistic Empire found it by one of alexander's general
retard
>>60035093
>Greeks improved what Babylonians and Egyptians did.
what did they improved?
>>60035071
parthians were an iranian group just like persians, they werent persians
>>60035017
>Point is that persians/iranians/whatever you want to call them were responsible for much of the intellectual contributions of the golden age
that is what im saying
>>60033438
None of the Gothic cathedrals were built during the dark ages, even by the widest definition of the former term they're medieval.
>>60029489
Yes.
But it's over.
>>60035328
Axioms, reasoning, and proofs.
When you think about it, Islam has been nothing but a fucking shitshow. It's a religion dedicated to war. It has done nothing for humanity. Look at christianity and just,fuck man. Even then Islam is growing rapidly as shit. I would really like to see how the world looks like 1000 years ahead.
>>60035558
>I would really like to see
It's either glassed or brown
>>60034486
You seriously think leaving behind bogus governments (future diadochi and seleucids) is the equivalent of adopting persian culture?
And read that post again, I clearly said that thinking the hellenistic and persian cultures didnt influence each other is nonsense. Back in those days, you always made use of pre-existing modes of adminstrations and culture when you were doing your conquering presicely because it was difficult enough to develop and spread effectively on one's own. Simply put: you work with the locals and vice-versa.
But that does not mean Alexander was unmitigatedly adopting persiam culture and traditions. When he conquered gordium, he slashed in half their holy knot for fuck sake...
>>60033154
What's wrobg with gays? What's wrong with cowards?
>irrelevant since thousands of years
Do you know what irrelevant means?
>>60035940
>>60035964
>>60035406
And i agreed. But you went full autist over me saying persian.
It was a bunch of conquered Persians and Greeks that were responsible for it. Arabs didn't invent or discover shit.
>>60036056
The fellow is what happens when critique of "euro-centrism" goes wrong.
>>60035790
>You seriously think leaving behind bogus governments (future diadochi and seleucids) is the equivalent of adopting persian culture?
i didnt say that
just read his history ffs
im done
Was the scientific method really invented in the Islamic world, or was it built from empirical methods from other civilizations?
>>60035558
Either this or a worldwide sharia slum.
>>60036056
>But you went full autist over me saying persian.
im not
>>60036508
>>60033482
They're almost as bad as the whites who have no personal achievements and prefer to identify with the elite of their race while they contribute nothing.
No one is jealous of the bottom of the barrel whites on here.
>>60029489
All pre-islam Arabic cultures.
>>60035940
>>60035964
>expecting Obama to know anything about anything
I chuckled at Al-ahzar's mosque being europe's model for the renaissance though.
Sylvester II already got most of his shit from Cordoba by the same time the mosque was even built. And no, islamic egypt didn't get gud until the ayubid (saladin's dynasty) and later the malmouk sultanate (which was actually where the remaining abassid rulers retired after the rise of the ottoman post mongol invasions).
>>60035940
>one will find very few mentions of Muslim contributions to science. Because there aren't any
Here is one. Wall of text disproven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhazen#Book_of_Optics
>>60029489
Put it this way: How many "Islamic" philosophers weren't Aristotelians or Platonists?
Also think of it like this in the 600 years between Mo snuffing it and the sack of Baghdad almost nothing changed in the Islamic world technologically speaking. In Europe the time between the Renaissance and putting a man on the moon was about 600 years.
So the golden age wasn't really a period of spectacular human achievement.
>>60036508
It's kind of hard to say that the Islamic world didn't do anything. I mean, they did contributed to the world to a degree. But is it really fair to actually give the credit to Islam and not the scientists who managed to do science within an Islamic culture? You'd be surprised to know that Christians actually resented Greek ideals because of how the Romans treated Christians. It's all the same shit really. Religion is awful, Christians and Jihadists are just the same thing, a cult. Just give the credit to the scientists and individuals and not the societies they were in.
>>60036482
>i dont like what im reading
>cant provide a single evidence of what he claims
>just read sum real history!!1!
Coming from someone asking for proofs that the western hellenistic culture impacted on the islamic world, it's laughable.
If it wasn't for aristotle, you would never have had your golden age.
>>60035071
just to play devil's advocate, French is used in the province of New Brunswick also
Lingua franca is different from lingua bourgeoisie (which isn't really a term, but I made up for the sake of showing it is a language spoken by the non-plebs)
>>60037070
They did though. Avicenna's cannon of medicine was the medical go-to book in europe til the 17th or so century.
I'd give you that much of what they did was streamline, translate and compile al forms of knowledge they came across (being right in the middle of europe, asia, india and africa must have greatly helped for that). But they did come up with quite a few discoveries and inventions of their own. Either way it served its purpose.
The key difference is that we don't have europeans going around their daily lives spouting shit like " WE WUZ CONSULS N SHIEET" as if having been great aeons ago is a justification for remaining shit today.
>>60037952
>" WE WUZ CONSULS N SHIEET"
That would be the Romans.
>>60029489
Nope, it was a Persian Golden Age when persians were under islamic rule.
Arabs have never been intellectuals, the are just dirty bedouins.
>>60038149
Hasn't stopped western africans from claiming to be nilosiharans, or pakis from pretending to be descended from ancient baghdad.
If you're retarded enough, nothing's impossible.
>>60038582
That's not true luigi, there's a long list of non Persian scientists in the middle east during that era with many of them being Arabs. The modern day surgery tools were invented by an Arab.
>>60029489
Yes. Fuck off revisionists. It's well established that Muslims are intelligent (yet delusional) so no doubt when Muslims controlled world trade they would have a golden age.
And one more note, suck my big brown arab dick like all your wommenz do :DDDD
>>60038869
>implying you're not a virgin still
>implying all the women in your village aren't Hamas shields
Stop your "WE WUZ SCIENTISTS N SHIET". Arabs did nothing but arabize everything. Even you, you're an arabized kike.
>>60036916
>Sylvester II already got most of his shit from Cordoba
You mean the city?
>>60038797
Why aren't you intifada today, muhammad? So, there was an arab that was good with knives. Color me shocked.
>>60039091
He's not a kike, he's an Armenian rape baby.
>>60039099
I mean the cordoba emirate/ taifa. That's where he got his literature from.
>>60039283
Ok.
Mostly of his works derived from the Greco-Roman
culture.
>>60038797
>60038149
>Not providing us with the list.
At first I took your comment with a grain of salt. Then I realised you weren't kidding.
>>60038869
Don't you have a goat to fuck?
>>60039724
Not saying he wasn't. He still got a lot of stuff from corboda though. I referred to him because he is one of the first well known european humanists to deal with arabic numerals, amongst other things.
Back in the 900s. Most intellectuals were platonists/aristotlean scholars. The europeans and arabs were no exception.
>>60040185
Got it.
Some scholars decided to stay after the Christian Reconquista, the environment was freer. I remember this dude, Ghalib the Mozarabe.
He was not in Cordoba but translated a ton of stuff.
>>60039755
Here's a roughly accumulated list on wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_scientists_and_scholars
And here's the father of surgery being an Arab
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Zahrawi
>b-but muh /pol/ memes
eat shit fake frog
>>60029489
Why do you people think historians suck Persian dick? It was all from them. And they got it from the Mesopotamians. Ever since the original settler tribes, the cultures that followed took what their predecessors had and took if forward.
>>60041818
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Zahrawi
Al-Ansari, huh? Wow. I almost expected the link to be about some obscure berber who was claimed to be an Arab.
As for the list...Well thank you for it. It does say "In some cases, their exact ancestry is unclear.", but at the very least, you got me a list.
شكرا لك
>>60042418
>Salah is speaking to me
>B*rber
ewww
>>60038869
Shut up Hawke.
>>60043001
Yeah, there were lots of Berbers there at that time. That's the original population of North Africa, by the way.
Also, I'm not an Arab. I'm just learning fus7a, not one of your dialects (although darija probably should be on my priority list, given the population of North african sandniggers in the capital.
>>60029489
Short answer: no
Long answer: Google it fgt
>>60030315
>what is historiography
In choosing which events are deemed significant and worthy of mention, and which are not (what fits the narrative) you are editorializing and making an argument
The construction of histories is not neutral
>>60043441
I see, well Zahrawi makes a strong case for being an Arab, and that list is probably part of what have been lost during countless wars in the middle east and the burning of Baghdad library by mongols which possessed millions of books with many of them belonging to Arab scholars.
>>60043881
Historiography is always going to be a subject of contention, regardless of the source. It's a bit like epistemology where it's the structure itself of a field that's being studied and scrutinized.
It's hagiography that we could all do without.
Yes and No.
Europe fell into a state of serious disrepair following Xiongnu incursions, resulting in germanic migration, empire crumbling, etc.
while the arabs kept "ancient knowledge" that europe lost, greek maths and sciences, Carthaginian physics, astronomy, Roman concrete, and built universities and shit to continue the legacy and over centuries improve on it. Islam didn't exactly big it to fruition, but it didn't suppress it either, originally at least.
>>60044179
I'm not sure they even bothered to make that kind of list at the time. We are interested in them, not the people of that day, at least I think. As far as I can remember, the people of the Middle-East made a bigger deal of their religion than of their bloodline.
Yeah, the burning of Baghdad was a crime against humanity. Not sure about "millions", but I know they had huge amounts of books and knowledge there. Loads were lost as well. Very sad, then again, there's nothing to be done about it.
Talking about Iraq always makes me sad. I've had to study its history for a course at university. It disgusts me how the region was plundered and abused, how many great things were lost and brought down by fools and barbaric hordes.
>>60041818
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_scientists_and_scholars
Let's see: persians, egyptians, syrians, spaniards and the occasional arab.
How does that help your argument, muhammad?
>>60044796
I am an atheist myself, and I hate how people interpret Islam through its many stages by a brief period in modern day history or its earliest days. Sure, Islam is fictitious like any other book out there, and it has many wrongs. But Muslim history during that "Golden era" was very interesting, and there was even advanced religious sects within Islam that Caliphs of that era followed called Mu'tazili, it called to consider religion as just spiritual thing, and scripts as a heritage and if they disagree with reasons then we must follow reason and science. That was 1100 years ago!
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila
Sadly, and due to Islam having the "one nation for all" mentality, such a large empire couldn't have a continuous breed of good caliphs, and it lead to its weakness like Roman empire before it, and several other kingdom arisen inside this empire and its neighbors were getting stronger and attacked these newly formed separatist kingdoms. I hate modern Islam and the way Islam spread, but the Umayyad and the first half of the Abbasid caliphates were probably one of the best things to happen in that region.
>>60045091
>spaniards
lol
Anyway, many of them are Arabs, as for why "Gulf arabs" Don't have large representation, well it is easy, the gulf states were part of Persia, the inner part "Saudi" had a few immigration waves towards the north, and they were smaller in numbers compared to neighboring regions. So of course bigger populated regions are going to have more representation. With that being said, Arabs aren't just the ones living in the gulf, there's a second part of the Arabs that was even part of the Roman empire and had their own kingdoms and prosperous amazing cities (Eg. Petra)
>>60045578
Dude, all the "arabs" you listed didn't live in the arabic peninsula. They all lived in places which had prior civilazations? Coincidence?
>>60045335
>Atheist
>Palestine
Life must be fucking terrible where you live. Hizb Allah and the like must be a daily pain in the arse, mustn't it?
Yeah, there was an insane number of sects of Islam. I personally have heard good things about the Sufi's. They kind of fit your describtion of the Mu'tazila, but they were more spiritual than intellectual. I agree that there were amazing achievements during that era, but the system was made to fail. Not enough centrality, be it on a political or a religious level. The concept of 'ummat doesn't give enough coherence, since every sect will consider itself a 'ummat.
I wouldn't say in the whole region, but it certainly was for the Gulf region, Palestine and North Africa. I'm not so sure about Iraq, Iran and the other northern countries.
>>60045999
Dude, Saudi Arabia was empty even in the days of Muhammad, Muhammad was a good military leader whether you like it or not, he united the southern arabs and attacked neighboring regions, and the few guys that came after him were just as good as commanders. When wars ended and the empire expanded, many of these southern arabs returned to Mecca and Medina and their contributions were only to Islamic literature, the elite ones remained in the newly conquered regions and started to expand, and btw many of the local population remained with their original religions and languages, it was Mamluks and Kurds and later Turks that imposed Islamic conversion and Arabization on the population, first Arab caliphates (Umayyad, Abbasid) were much more relaxed about it that caused many parts of Syria and the Levant to remain Christian up until the Crusades ended. I used the term arab to express that not only Persians as many suggested in this thread contributed to the scientific movement but many from the regions that we consider Arabs today.
>>60046390
>I'm not so sure about Iraq, Iran and the other northern countries
Are you kidding? Persia and Iraq reached an abundance in the amount of wealth during the Abbasids, even more than any region in the Islamic world. And combine that with the great scientific movement then, I don't see why it was bad for them?
>M-muh ancient religions
Even Islam is an extension of these religions.
>Life must be fucking terrible where you live
Nah, just having different opinions most of the time.
>The concept of 'ummat doesn't give enough coherence, since every sect will consider itself a 'ummat.
That's what I said. It is good as long there's a strong advanced empire to control all of the ummah and shit without it.
>>60030796
ottomans never cared about anatolia. they cared about balkans and gave their everything to that region. they exploited resources of anatolia for hundreds of years. in return, anatolian people rioted for 200 years.
>>60029489
This is a very complicated question. There certianly were quite a few advancments made in middle east during the medieval period. However, many of these were either:
A) slight to non existent advanments and improvements of roman, greek and/or persian classical age knowledge
B) discoveires in fileds such as medicine or astronomy, many of which had already been done by either earlier civilizations, or had been discovered by isolated civilizations (namley the mezo-american and south american civilization ps in regards to astronomy), or the inventions would be relativly useless in the long term, as people from other areas with no knowledge of the islamic discoveires would discover better solutions to the problems these inventions tried to solve.
Or
c) artistic works lost to the ages
Furthermore, most of this was funded by rich shieks who were in no way funding this because of islam nor where the inventors scientists artist ect. motivated by islam. So to call it the "islamic golden age" is a misnomer, a better name would be "the medieval middle eastern golden age", telling us when where and what happened without confusing us by subtly implying islam had anything to do with the golden age beyond being the majority religion of the region it took place in.
>>60047197
>Burger opinion
>>60047017
I didn't mean that it didn't prosper. I'm just not sure it prospered more under islamic rule than under any other previous rule. The Middle-East was ruled by big powers, like Alexander the Great, Babylon, Akkad, after all.
I don't see where you get that "muh ancient religions" thing from.
The problem is, the 'Ummat is probably the reason why the Arabs aren't going to be a big power for a very long time. That's crippling.
>>60047485
Do you think your greentext somehow disproves my arguement? Or did you have no way to refute it and so you said to yourself "I know what I'll do! I'll rely on the steryotype that americans are stupid and use that to try to discredit him"
>>60029489
there's no such thing as the Christian Golden Age.
So why is there an Islamic golden age? Is it because Muslim countries are so inferior they have to pitch in together to try to match Europe?
>>60029489
Yes, it did. It's pretty interesting because while the Carolingian renaissance was all Latin the Islamic Golden Age was all Greek. Catholics rediscovered writers like Cicero and thought of them as righteous pagans and all that, the Muslims did the same thing with philosophers like Plato.
The constitution of Iran is heavily influenced by Plato's Republic.
>>60047965
>there's no such thing as the Christian Golden Age
That's because there hasn't been one singualar "golden age" for the western world after it became christian. We have the Renaissance, englightenment, the advancments made duting the 20th century, which includes a few different periods, like the space race, the computer boom, ect.
>>60030290
Rome at its peak was worth only 1/10th of a unified India or China. Even then the richest province in Rome was Egypt.
>>60029489
Yes it was a period where they stole everyone's gold.
>>60047197
I think of it this way:
Without Islam, the Arabs wouldn't have been able to unite and would have stayed mainly irrelevant. Because of Islam, they started working together, built an empire so defined by muslim culture that I tend to call it "the muslim empire".
"Golden Age" refers to a period of great prosperity. I think it's really used a lot for "scientifical achievements", but the original meaning is just that, a period of prosperity.
Also, to say "middle-eastern" would misrepresent the ethnical changes that were operated during that era. If you don't call it muslim, call it Arab. Given how important arabisation was to the muslim empire and how massively the non semite population was demographically crushed, I think that's one fair thing to say. Or maybe do you don't agree on this?
But yeah, lots of what was claimed to be either muslim or Arab was actually Persian, Berber, Kurdish, etc etc.
>>60031890
http://www.greekmedicine.net/whos_who/Avicenna.html
here is one example you dumb faggot
>>60048306
>Update
thats my point really.
>>60047819
>The Middle-East was ruled by big powers, like Alexander the Great, Babylon, Akkad, after all.
And what makes you think they were more prosperous or peaceful than Ummyyad and Abbasid? If we consider Persia, Muslims didn't destroy any city in their capture of Persia and later Persia turned into a great hub for commerce and science, how's that a downgrade? When if you look at it, Persians at the time were defeated by a bunch of sandniggers from the desert. I think the first half of Abbasid and Umayyad were as great as any of these ancient civilizations. They had their own art, philosophy, scientific discoveries, bigger empire to trade in..etc. If anything they did what Alexander wanted to do which is unifying the empire in a one nation like state.
>>60047940
>invented surgery, and many medical advancements
>great contributions to maths, even started their own branch of mathematics
>earliest form of programmable machine
>chemistry
>astronomy
>philosophy
>invented optics science
>many contributions to geography
>engineering contributions
.
.
.
etc..
>burger says they didn't do anything original
LOL
>>60030796
>If it weren't for the crusaders the fall of Constantinople wouldn't have happened.
Timur saved your ass from the Turks.
>In 1394, Bayezid laid siege to Constantinople.
>Thus, the siege of Constantinople continued, lasting until 1402.[8] The beleaguered Byzantines had their reprieve when Bayezid fought the Timurid Empire in the East.[9] At this time, the empire of Bayezid included Thrace (except Constantinople), Macedonia, Bulgaria, and parts of Serbia in Europe. In Asia, his domains extended to the Taurus Mountains. His army was considered one of the best in the Islamic world. In 1400, the Central Asian warlord Timur succeeded in rousing the local Turkic beyliks that had been vassals of the Ottomans to join him in his attack on Bayezid, who was also considered one of the most powerful rulers in the Muslim world during that period. In the fateful Battle of Ankara, on 20 July 1402, Bayezid was captured by Timur and the Ottoman army was defeated. Many writers claim that Bayezid was mistreated by the Timurids. However, writers and historians from Timur's own court reported that Bayezid was treated well, and that Timur even mourned his death. One of Bayezid's sons, Mustafa Çelebi, was captured with him and held captive in Samarkand until 1405.
>>60048767
they took what was already available and did fürther research (like the first glasses based on Greek research)
>>60048498
Yeah I can agree with most of that.
And I know the definition of go,den age, which is why I didn't deny that it happened, because the region definitely had one, but I was simply refuting the idea that this golden age entailed a great advancment of science without which the world would have never have been able to advance.
"Arabian golden age" or "islamic empire golden age" would probably be a much better term.
>>60048498
>Kurdish
Also you are being an ignorant nigger again. When people refer to it as "Arab" they are not taking the contribution from their original maker and attributing it to Arabs from Saudi Arabia. It is because even among your precious Berbers, ahmed, being an arab was a high status thing, as Arabs had sort of fanaticism about ancestry lines and their "purity". And back to the point, they say they are arabs because these people became Arabs whether at the time of the invention or later.
>>60048995
"Islamic Empire Golden Age" is long but probably captures the essence of what it was.
As for the rest, I agree, although you'd have to discuss the relevance of that empire in terms of what it preserved from the Greeks and the Romans.
