The universal constants just happen to be set perfectly for atom/star/life formation in our universe.
>atheists seriously believe these constants weren't set by God
>atheists instead believe there are infinite universes with infinite possibilities
>this is the only way to explain how our universe can just so happen to form matter
>in order for this to be true infinite forms of universes must exist within these infinite possibilities
>in some fraction of these infinite universes God must exist
>a fraction of infinity is infinity
>God exists in infinite universes
>God exists in all universes
Checkmate atheists.
This guy again
>>59980363
Prove me wrong.
>>59980225
Why do you feel the need to convince anyone. It's like trying to convince that people have brains. I mean .... duh.....
Think of the infinite universes where it is not. only in the one where it is do we notice it.
>>59980568
Mark 16:15
>>59980647
Ok so I jumped a little bit from "infinite" God universes to "all". But still, so there's a 50/50 shot of God existing in this one? Except there's far more forms that God can take then no God... So there's far more universes with God. Odds are God exists in this universe, even if it's not 100% (hence "believing" and not "knowing")
>>59980733
Eughhhg, I hope your cat catches heavy shrapnel, heathen.
>>59980733
I mean, heretic.
>>59980520
"Infinite universes" conjectures
For all we know the constants were set by a random number generator and the universe kept popping into existence and falling out of existence until it got everything right.
God bless
>>59981847
Right. And in some of those random universes God exists
>>59980225
anthropic principle.
/thread.
>>59981992
Where is the proof the so called infinite universes exist?
>in order for this to be true infinite forms of universes must exist within these infinite possibilities
>in some fraction of these universes God does not exist
>a fraction of infinity is infinity
> God does exist in infinite universes
> God does not exist in any universe
/thread
>>59980225
>a fraction of infinity is infinity
>there's bigger infinity and smaller ones
The only reality where you wouldn't believe some "God" exists is one where you wouldn't even be able to form such a thought, right?
>>59980225
Take this garbage back to /b/
>>59982345
Read this anonymous soul
imagine if you will, a dice with like, a billion sides
roll the dice. go on.
don't take note of when the dice rolls anything random.
instead, focus on how "miraculous" it is when the dice suddenly rolls a 1, out of all other possible numbers
with infinite tries at universe creation, one of them is going to be "correct".
you are looking at the problem from the limited perspective of inside the only universe that has succeeded.
>>59980225
>in some fraction of these infinite universes I personally must be God
>a fraction of infinity is infinity
>God exists in infinite universes
>God exists in all universes
Checkmate religionfags, I am God.
>>59982489
>>59982041
No shit this is exactly what I'm spelling out. I get the infinite thing. It's my premise.
My point is if there's infinite universes to start with, which as you pointed out is the very premise of proper constants without God, then in some of those universes God exists.
>>59982489
The Universe that is experienced is the one that worked. The probability is 1:∞
but we're here, so we made it
>>59980225
Your logic is sound OP
That doesn't prove the Christian God is real though.
There may very likely be god, as you suggest; but it has nothing to do with any of the silly religious texts that humans have created for themselves.
>>59982745
>the one that worked
>one of the ones that worked
FTFY
And of that "working" set, some have no God, and some have God. Atheists need to admit God is at LEAST as likely as not.
>>59982951
Are you saying there's not at least one universe where the Christian God exists? I agree we don't know for sure we're in it. But we might be...
>>59982698
>major premise: there are infinite universes
>minor premise: in some universes magic is real
>conclusion: magic is real
your minor premise is unfounded.
>>59983048
We have the same chance that the Greeks were right and Zeus rules us right now.
>>59983090
>in some universes magic is real
That's my claim, yes. Just like in some (probably failed) universes the gravitational constant is half of what it is here.
>>59983192
Correct.
With all the different possible Gods, and only one possible "no God" it seems the odds are stacked in favor of us being in a universe with SOME God(s). Yet atheists exist
0.999... = 1
Checkmate atheists.
>>59983296
You're letting us get beaten by a bunch of 3rd world Brazilians.
If an omnipotent being existed, it would be outside of time and space.
This being could transcend boundaries and be in every universe. If he has power unbounded, which the Bible is in no way unclear about, then every universe would have him.
But that explanation is unlikely: it's far too complex.
I don't personally like the big bang theory, but it makes a heck of a lot more sense than the universe and everything in it being created by some entity's grand design.
>>59983438
That's not true though. There may be an infinite number of universes that aren't governed by a God. We might be one of those.
When we're talking about infinite possibilities, chances and odds kinda mean nothing. Infinite God universes, Infinite no-God universes. We can be in either.
>>59983296
your claim is unreasonable and unverifiable anyway.
i suppose your argument is something like "if there are infinite universes, there must be a universe in which any irrational thing is possible."
but it may be that infinite universes are identical to ours. or it may be that irrational and impossible things that cannot exist in our universe cannot exist in any.
or, most likely, it may be that there are no other universes.
>>59980225
if you dont see god constantly in this life i feel bad for you, he signed his name to everything if you look, you will see.
>>59983608
Ok so then at least 50% odds. At least.
>>59980225
>muh invisible sky-daddy
"I am too dumb to understand science, so it must be Jesus!"
>>59983724
I agree. But when you're arguing with someone you must argue in their language. It's like avoiding nationalistic arguments with pro refugee SJWs and instead speaking to the anti-feminist and anti-gay rights nature of the refugees. Use their own logic against them to show the absurdity of their beliefs.
Nice
Is good seeing that you are using science!
>>59983728
The only people who should be frowned upon are those who truly believe either scenario.
An atheist who has 100% conviction that there is no God is just as bad as someone who has total conviction that there is.
We should live life continuing to seek the truth and not settling with either answer.
>>59980225
You don't science much, do you cunt?
>>59983941
And how do we do that?
Answer: Science
>>59983826
Good argument.
>muh empty universe
>muh if there's a God then I'm accountable for my degeneracy and evil ways, must deny deny deny
>>59984028
Science can't solve everything. It's a human institution and therefore suffers the same frailties as human beings.
I personally don't believe there is a sky wizard but there might be a God. I can't really say.
>>59982109
There is no proof. But aside from God, it's the only sensible reason the universal constants would be exactly what they have to be to support life. The anthropic principle relies on infinity.
>>59983826
>implying that any christian belief worth its salt believes in sky daddy
No.
God, from a catholic view, is a even handed ruler who will forgive you, but only if you mean it.
>implying the universe is not a neuron in God's mind and all creation is not a figment of his imagination
It's mostly a matter of probability that likely made life exist in the first place. In a sea of countless amino acids on primordial Earth, unlikely events such as the formation of a protein still have a chance of happening. The random formation of a self-replicating protein is likely the first instance of "life," and mutations will eventually create more complex structures that can compete. Evolution is slow, so it's not like it pumped out even single-cell organisms without a few hundred million years of buildup.
I won't say God isn't real, as he may have created the universe. But intelligent design doesn't need to exist for life itself to form.
>>59984229
>Science can't solve everything
Certainly not with that stagnant thinking
>>59984635
My neurons aren't figments of my imagination.
>Canada
>DUDE WEED level ideas
Zoolander really did a number on you guys, you really are worse than Australia.
>>59984662
Saying 'Science can't solve everything' is equivalent to saying 'No human can survive a 100ft fall'. There are limits to what humans can do. It's a fact.
>>59984662
Ok, I'll bite. Tell me how science deals with purpose of life, or meaning?
>>59984745
I don't have time to find that image of the model of the universe bearing a striking resemblance to a human neuron.
>God created man in his own image
>God created man in his own imagination
Life can exist in .000000000000000001% of this universe. This is basically the worse possible universe for life besides one where it wouldn't be possible at all.
I know this is bait tho because /pol/ is an atheist board.
>b..but I'm agnostic
Kill yourself.
>>59984643
Cool lecture bro. I get all that. I'm speaking to atheists only, not agnostics. I'm an agnostic Catholic myself.
Under infinite universe theory there is at least SOME chance we're in a God-inhabited and created universe. And without infinite universe theory it's insane to think the constants are perfect without Gods input. So either way, there's at least some chance God exists. That's all this thread is meant to show.
>>59980225
>>59984954
>I know this is bait tho because /pol/ is an atheist board.
I thought most of /pol/ was protestant and considered atheism to be the fedora of religion?
>>59985090
Then there's 5,000:1 odds a God exists by your own admission, and that's not even counting all the Gods that aren't worshipped.
Face it, there's a 99.999999999% chance some God exists.
>>59980225
Haven't seen this meme in a while
>>59985076
A better premise is that mankind creates an AI that ascends to God-like abilities, eventually attaining the knowledge required to merge with the multiverse itself, outside of time as we understand it.
We're either in the first iteration, or in a simulation of that pre-God state.
>>59985090
Yeah, but which one is accepted by the most technologically advanced and most powerful civilizations in human history?
Face it, Christian nations have historically dominated, even winning in the face of impossible odds which outcomes can only be considered divine intervention.
God is with us you savage, fall in line or die.
>>59985746
>muh the last question
Cool story, Asimov. Equally likely God exists
>>59980225
It's not even 100% certain other universes exist and the only evidence of them are found in science. I never understood why most people who believe in multiple universe follow the idea that the other universes somehow parallel our own.
For all the know other universes could have trillions and trillions of miles of absolute nothing between them. But really going by your logic I'd be more likely to believe we're in a computer than believe we were created by a magical deity.
>>59986237
>For all the know other universes could have trillions and trillions of miles of absolute nothing between them.
I don't think you understand the conversation at all.
>>59985775
The most powerful nation in human history is secular.
>don't even start with that FOUNDING FATHERS WUZ CHRISTIAN crap
>they would've phrased the Constitution entirely differently
>>59981439
Multiple universes(if there are) cant interact wih each other u idiot, not even through quantum tunneling.
Wait for LHC V2 and see how atheists get btfod again
>>59980225
The fuck do you think is going to happen because of this thread? No one is going to read this and say "oh wow, what a great point, I believe in God now!"
>inb4 "oh wow, what a great point, I believe in God now!"
>>59980225
take it to /b/
>>59986855
The same could be said for any thread with literally any argument about anything. What a non-contributing shitpost.
>>59980225
>set... for
Other way around.
>Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, “This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!”
>>59980958
>so there's a 50/50 shot of God existing in this one?
It depends on what you define "God" as. There are many ideas which don't correspond to anything that could coherently exist in reality. I believe "God" as most people define it is one of those many incoherent ideas. It's better in my humble opinion to let your ideas follow from basic, observed reality rather than try to conjure up what you think reality could be like based on your ideas. In cases where we're forced to follow abstraction alone in the absence of ability to observe directly, we should be especially skeptical of where it leads us.
Get off my board you cunt fucking normies
>>59980225
If it weren't suited to life we wouldn't exist to notice. Still not proof.
>>59987712
You're saying nothing at all. Bunch of big words to make you feel smart and sidestep the entire discussion in the thread.
>>59988075
Agreed. But you're missing the point
See
>>59985076
>>59989192
Which part of what I wrote doesn't make sense to you? You're the one sidestepping discussion by making vague criticisms of the quality of my post instead of actually addressing the argument of my post. Will summarize the argument here if that helps.
1) The cosmological constants weren't made for life, life was made for the cosmological constants i.e. we note the circumstances are well suited to what exists because what exists was molded by the circumstances. Hence the Douglas Adams puddle quote.
2) I deny that there's a 50/50 shot of God existing in this or any other universe. I also deny there's a small, nonzero chance of God existing in this or any other universe. My reason for doing so is that reality is under no obligation to produce existing versions of incoherent ideas. Even in an infinite amount of time with an infinite amount of changing material, there is still such a thing as an idea which can be discussed but which doesn't correspond to something that can happen in reality.
>>59980225
>The universal constants just happen to be set perfectly for atom/star/life formation in our universe.
Are they? So far, the only life we've detected is on this planet. If the constants are perfect for the emergence of life, we would expect life to be everywhere, and it clearly isn't.
>atheists seriously believe these constants weren't set by God
Correct. Because invoking a god as an explanation for the purported fine-tuning of the constant just pushes the problem one step back: why is reality fine-tuned so that god exists? And not just any god...a god that has all the right features and goals to make physical lifeforms exist.
Your god is fine-tuned.
>>59983048
Just because there are infinite universes does not imply that magic exists in any of them. All universes would begin and play out according to basic physics. The laws of physics could be different in each universe, but each universe would start out blank. No complex being right from the get go. Infinite universes still does not support your idea.
By that logic there are infinite more religions people/aliens made up, and therefore your preferred religion has an infinitely small chance of being the correct one.
Checkmate christfags.
>>59990139
Read the thread. I grant that. I'm just saying there's a chance.
>>59980225
if those constants were slightly different, intelligent life would have arisen adapted to completely different physical laws. Or, it wouldn't have happened at all. There's probably infinite parallel universes, look up the 'sentient puddle' hypothesis.
>>59990713
Just like there's a chance no god exists.
Infinite universes doesn't mean infinite possibility. For instance, in no universe is there people teleporting to the sun to take a shower by burning off dirt. Magical things like that have a strict 0% chance of occurrence.
>>59989895
>we would expect life to be everywhere, and it clearly isn't.
Expected everywhere? No, it means a necessity for life.
>Because invoking a god as an explanation for the purported fine-tuning of the constant just pushes the problem one step back: why is reality fine-tuned so that god exists?
It's not, it's fine tuned for life on earth.
>And not just any god...a god that has all the right features and goals to make physical lifeforms exist.
>Your god is fine-tuned
Smoking weed: The Post.
>>59990890
You think "infinite universes" just means the constants would be tweaked but "physics" itself wouldn't? That there aren't other universes where gravity doesn't exist but instead teleportation does? Why?
>>59990890
Yeah except there is no way to verify that. How convenient. Yeah, it's not like we already live in a big enough universe already. You have to have an infinite number before atheism sounds logical.
Good job on that. Really thinking things through.
