Hey guys. I want your opinion on something.
When I was ~11 years old I discovered the internet. Shortly after that, 9/11 happened and I was desperate for an answer as to "why". How I ended up at a page dedicated to some guy named Željko Ražnatović, I can't be sure, but for whatever reason, I started to regard him as a hero and was confused as to why my country would have wanted to kill people I regarded as brothers. Well, I had mostly forgotten all of that until today, when I decided to google him 15 years afterwards. For some reason, everyone regards the man as "scum" everywhere I look. I'm confused. I have spent the last 15 or so years thinking that it is a tragedy that my country sided with our enemy to kill our brothers. No one ever told me to think this way. I don't know any Serbians, I don't know any Bosnians. I'm just a guy from the midwest who made up his mind at age 11 based on what he read on internet explorer. Is this man really that hated? I have always thought of him as the good guy. I don't know, maybe I'm on the wrong side. Just wanting others' opinions on him. Anyway, yes this post is serious and I haven't used 4chan in a long time (3-4 years??) so I don't know how you all do it now but this board sounded like the best place to post this. One thing I do remember:
tl;dr: Željko Ražnatović, was he the good guy or the bad guy?
>>57360744
Bad guy, even a Serb could agree to that.
Prior to the war, he was already a wanted man in Europe for criminal activities. When the war came, he pretty much went anywhere he was payed to go. Post war he kept up with his criminal activities, married a singer, and helped build up the gangster and whore culture of turbofolk.
He maybe faked his own death too...
He also got BTFO by based Šešelj once, not that I like Šešelj, but honestly, he is one of the few Serb nationalists you can give some respect to.
>>57361601
Thank you for your perspective I have never heard of "Šešelj" but I will check him out. But the serbs do not consider this man a hero? This confuses me.
>>57361976
For one he sold artillery shells to Bosniaks while they were fighting Serbs. He was what we would call "gorenje brigada", gorenje being a household utilities manufacturer, they would go into an village, clear it out, take things like stoves, TV, fridges and burn the rest down.
>>57362956
I appreciate your response. From your viewpoint, the man was "in it for the money"?
>>57361601
Ok, I looke at "Šešelj", but he sounds like a petty war criminal. Was he something more? Sorry I am looking at this from the perspective of the west I hope you can help me understand.
>>57363203
Yes and no, he did hate Muslims, but he also sold guns to muslims to fight Serbs, but at the same time a lot of people did the same. Bosniaks at the start of the war had at most 30000 AK and few anti tank weapons, and survived for 4 years in a complete land blockade. So a lot of back room deals were going on. Arkan was a typical Balkan criminal who was lucky that his father worked for secret service and could refer him to some high powered people who needed someone to do the dirty work, be it clearing out villages or selling guns to enemy. For example more Serbs in Croatia were killed in disputes between local Serb army and Arkansas tigers and few other units from Serbia than by Croats in 94.
>>57363424
Seselj is a nationalist, probably one of few honest Serb nationalist, him being a war criminal is a different story but he did what he did for the good of his people while most Serb politicians in the 90s did what they did for their own good under guise of nationalism.
>>57363864
Hmm this is definitely something to think about. I always thought of him as the one guy with the bravery to defend his people. Perhaps not.
>>57364066
Dude stay away from thee balkans , no meter which version you choose its always going to be someone's narrative more than the facts. There are no heroes here only criminals how got cought and those who got away.
>>57364423
Interesting. Thank you for all your information. It is nice to hear from someone with the truth.
>>57360744
The guy was basically a career criminal. Apart from being involved in robberies and similar stuff all over Europe, he was also close with the head of then-Yugoslavia's secret police, so it is also believed that he basically worked for them as a hitman. When the breakup of Yugoslavia started, he formed his very own paramilitary unit made up of football hooligans. His unit was to become one of the most notorious in the war because of war crimes.
He also married this popular singer who is considered the 'mother' and 'queen' of turbofolk, this trashy genre of music that became popular around here during the breakup. In the end he got assassinated, quite certainly by mafia/secret police (that distinction is not quite clear in Serbia). A couple of years after his death, police raided the house of his wife, finding a whole cache of illegal weapons, including a crossbow, lel.
Sorry to inform you of this, but here only edgy ultranationalist teens and/or hooligans hold him in high regard.
Not the OP but what do you think of pic related?
>>57365085
>wearing brass knuckles on your wedding day
>>57363424
Seselj is the chief living ideologue of Serbian nationalism. He used to be a big deal during the 90s and early 00s, and even came close to getting in power (his party was the most popular, but moderate, pro-western parties managed to get in power by creating a coalition), but then he got sent off to the International War Crimes Tribunal. While he was there, his party friends decided to split off and create a new party on a moderate platform, dropping the nationalist rhetoric. This eventually got them in power a couple of years ago. Seselj returned to Serbia like a year ago, but in the mean time he lost all relevance, so he's basically just a meme now (the dankest of memes in Serbia, though).
By the way he's actually quite a smart guy; he was the youngest recipient of a PhD in the entire ex-Yugoslavia. He also has this weird sense of humour, which can be seen in the titles of his books. Here are a couple of examples:
>In the jaws of the whore Del Ponte [chief prosecutor at the International Tribunal]
>Washington sex maniac, Bill Clinton
>English faggotic piece of shit, Tony Blair
>Pontifex Maximus of the satanic church, John Paul II
>Antichrist's vice-regent, the criminal Roman pope Benedict XVI
>Cunning Gallic pussy-singer, Jacques Chirac
and many more... (he actually wrote more than a hundred books)
>>57365085
As an American, I have to say I actually kind of like this "turbofolk" stuff (just did a youtube search). Regardless, it is interesting to hear from a Serb who was against the man.
>>57365395
Actually it's quite possible that he is holding a sabre or something.
>>57360744
My dad knew him personally.
He was shady as fuck. Involved in basically any kind of organised crime, smuggling etc. Nothing more than a common thug who made it big time.
>>57365944
Your icon says you are Austrian, is this true?
>>57365666
At the very least I can concede that he has a good sense of humor.
>>57360744
>>57361601
can confirm
>he is one of the few Serb nationalists you can give some respect to.
no. he would rather see all serbs die for his ideals than create something worthwhile for everyone to enjoy.
>>57366421
So according to you, a Serb, both were on the wrong side?
>>57360744
>I have spent the last 15 or so years thinking that it is a tragedy that my country sided with our enemy to kill our brothers.
> I don't know any Serbians, I don't know any Bosnians.
>I'm just a guy from the midwest who made up his mind at age 11
sounds like you're ready for the BLM/sjw scene
>>57366511
not the wrong side, but both were bastards who took from the people for their own benefit. arkan degenerated us with turbofolk and seselj made up so many taxes, most notably the gun tax, that is screwing us even today.
that may have fought against america and the west, but it sure doesn't seem like they were on our side
>>57366802
I don't agree with that statement whatsoever. I do not agree with the BLM movement and while I consider myself a political "moderate" by our country's standard, I don't think of myself as a "SJW" by any means. Please understand I am not here to troll thus board but just hope to get a better understanding.
He did nothing wrong.
>Željko Ražnatović
For disinterested Anons scrolling past: This is Arkan's real name. He's talking about the leader of Arkan's Tigers.
The Serbs were heroes that fought against the zionist terrorist organization NATO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kohsgr4kLdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq_J2C6Hrz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_WMWdDoHjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9-mYg5VDzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U97eCjWdrvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrceV9NU4YY
>>57367018
I thank you for your view and while I am not familiar with your gun tax I want you to know that I don't understand why my country did not support Serbia in the conflict. On the other hand, I still don't understand the hate for "turbofolk" music as I said in another comment it is actually quite enjoyable in my opinion.
>>57366279
>Your icon says you are austrian, is that true?
No, i'm Serbian,
There were a bunch of guys from my hometown involved in business with him. Actually showed up with a military helicopter to meet them for the first time. According to them, they were all treated fairly and with respect, for the time being.
After a while, they get offered to play a part in his cigarette smuggling operation, as investors. Now, something seemed off about the whole deal, the pot was too sweet, too good to be true. Most of them backed out of the whole arrangement.
One guy didn't though. On the way to deliver his part of the bargain, was mysteriously ambushed by the police. Money ''confiscated'', never to be seen again. On top of that, Zeljko acts pissed and accuses the homeguy of stiching him up.
In the end, he had to flee the country.
But there was no doubt who was behind the whole charade. He had his strings everywhere, police, military, government, you name it.
>>57367356
I do thank you for your input, and begging your understanding that I am not from Serbia, it seems kind of strange that the police would get too upset over cigarettes? Maybe there are taxes/customs I don't know about just seems weird that such a powerful man would need to flee his own country.
>>57367249
Thank you for the vid list.
>>57367333
not music, culture. it's even more degenerate that gang culture.
and they didn't support our country cause kosovo is filled with mines whose control still fought over by berlin and washington.
>>57360744
see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ_AOep4nI8
>Testimony from a survivor of the Kalinovik camp, where roughly 100 women had been detained and subjected to MPR, the rapists continually told their victims, "You are going to have our children. You are going to have our little Chetniks", and that the reason for their being raped was to "plant the seed of Serbs in Bosnia". Women were forced to go full term with their pregnancies and give birth.[33]
Serbs are literally subhuman
>>57367786
Maybe the Bosnians should have stayed in Yugoslavia then if they didn't want that to happen.
>>57367333
also don't think that what >>57367249 posted is turbofolk, that is folk music
this degenerate shit is turbofolk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiPOVLEYZ_g
even arkan didn't like it, he just created it and profited massively from it
>>57367627
You didn't understand me correctly, perhaps i should have been clearer.
Let me clarify
>cigarettes
Was big business back then. But anyway, police was on his payroll, whole deal was set up so he can ambush lesser criminals for cash.
>flee the country
Zeljko wasn't the one fleeing. It was the guy from my hometown.
Perhaps it's easier to imagine it as a game of thrones style plot. With Zeljko pulling all the strings.
>>57367880
Well the music seems good to me, please excuse me as I don't speak the language (so maybe the lyrics show what this is really about?). I see an attractive woman singing to "techno", I guess I just don't get it"
>>57367786
Whatever makes you feel better mudslim.
>The original Carrington–Cutileiro peace plan, named for its authors Lord Carrington and Portuguese ambassador José Cutileiro, resulted from the EC Peace Conference held in February 1992 in an attempt to prevent Bosnia-Herzegovina sliding into war. It was also referred to as the Lisbon Agreement (Serbo-Croatian: Lisabonski sporazum). It proposed ethnic power-sharing on all administrative levels and the devolution of central government to local ethnic communities. However, all Bosnia-Herzegovina's districts would be classified as Muslim, Serb or Croat under the plan, even where no ethnic majority was evident.
>On 11 March 1992, the "Assembly of the Republic of Serb Bosnia-Herzegovina" unanimously rejected the plan, putting forth their own map which claimed almost two thirds of Bosnia's territory, with a series of ethnically split cities and isolated enclaves, and leaving the Croats and Muslims with a disjointed strip of land in the centre of the republic. This plan was rejected by Cutileiro. However, he put forth a revised draft of the original which stated that the three constituent units would be "based on national principles and taking into account economic, geographic, and other criteria."
>On 18 March 1992, all three sides signed the agreement; Alija Izetbegović for the Bosniaks, Radovan Karadžić for the Serbs and Mate Boban for the Croats.
>On 28 March 1992, after a meeting with US ambassador to Yugoslavia Warren Zimmermann in Sarajevo, Izetbegović withdrew his signature and declared his opposition to any division of Bosnia.
>What was said and by whom remains unclear. Zimmerman denies that he told Izetbegović that if he withdrew his signature, the United States would grant recognition to Bosnia as an independent state. What is indisputable is that Izetbegović, that same day, withdrew his signature and renounced the agreement.
>>57367933
My apologies I thought you meant that it was Zeljko fleeing. It now makes much more sense as a story of corruption; still I cannot fathom cigarettes being a big business so I will trust your account on this one.
>>57367786
>>57368287
I have no sympathies for mudslims at all, wherever they go they're like king Midas except instead of turning things to gold they turn them to dogshit. The only reason Yugoslav mudslims looked reasonable is because Tito held tight leash on them and they were stomped by communism. Today they are still showing their true colors.
If you take in consideration the size of federation and the size of Kosovo, then you'll see that Bosnia and Kosovo are easily in top 3 of world's exporters of ISIS fighters. Not to mention that Neo-ottomanism is rampant and that Saudi influence grows by the minutes.
Bunch of brainwashed imbeciles, that's all they are.
>>57360744
>9/11
>ended up on page about Arkan
Kuku lele the dušmani know, shut it down!
>>57368261
The music itself is only a part of it. As always, it is about the people involved. And the singers are whores (a bit more subtle, but not by much) and uneducated morons. The listeners mainly consist of off people who barely finished grade school, and can hardly speak Serbian, let alone a second language.
People are bitter about the turbofolk takeover, given that we used to have a proper music scene throughout the second half of the 20th century.
>>57368486
Turbofolk is gonna be global now, lel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gotvmSQydS4
>>57368450
Oh no, not the douchemans!
Serbs are genocidal assholes, you don't become a hero by attempting to exterminate another people by killing everyone
>>57368401
Ever heard the saying ''smokes like a turk''?
Well, we are just a notch better, cigarette consumption is extremely prolific. Sanctions had a profound effect on the market.
Fuel smuggling was also big, to name another example.
>>57368450
I honestly wish I got the joke.. I googled it and got a really weird music video of a guy trying to get through airport security??
>>57368486
I think I understand what you're saying with it being a sort of fringe youth fad thing; hard for me to comment as I can only judge the music and the women
>>57368819
>fighting against literal monsters is not heroic
Fuck off Ahmed.
>>57368558
jesus fucking christ
>>57368261
all of the lyrics are about getting drunk in expensive clubs
>>57368834
I think I see your point now. Sorry for my confusion. It's just weird for me because if I saw a guy on a corner selling cigarettes in the U.S. I would think he was a homeless person not an organized crime boss.
>>57369038
Smuggled them in by the truckload. Whole logistics of a legal business, without any of the actual legality.
Wasn't just a dude selling on the corner. They sold them to bulk buyers, let them handle the rest.
>>57368558
I have to admit I liked it a lot better not in English. If this is representative of the Serbian lyrics.. I think I see the problem now.
>>57369038
Cigarettes cost like $12 a pack in NYC. Organized crime take them up from North Carolina where they're $5.
