The United States constitution is so incredibly old that its age is getting in the way of growth.
The constitution was written by rich old white slave owners that. (Unrepresentative of the real United States Citizen)
Get rid of the Senate: the only thing the Senate does anymore is impede progress.
Cameras should be mandatory inside the supreme court.
Re-word the 1st Amendment: "Congress cannot make a law that favors the establishment of one particular religion, which by definition means the separation of church and state; or, just to be even more clear, you can't hang up the Ten Commandments in public courthouses; you might not approve of coveting thy neighbor's wife, but it's not illegal; that prohibits the free exercise of religion
MAKE THE CONSTITUTION MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REAL PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES!
Not representative of the few. I don't want a democracy for the few, I want a democracy for the many.
Fuck you the Constitution is fine as is. Just because you are too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it's outdated.
The constitution is racist and sexist!!!
>>57356831
fuck off kike.
>>57356831
How about you start the amendment process then?
You only need a super-majority in both houses and 39 states to back it after all, that's not too hard is it?
>>57357056
>>57357109
>>57357122
The constitution was written by and for rich people. And it will continue to be that way unless something is done about it.
>>57356831
>>57356831
>>57356831
>democracy for the many
>70% of the U.S is Christian
>>57356831
Yet, you offer not even one suggestion for the critical changes you think it requires.
pro-tip: writing a Constitution is hardmode; it's like you need to be actually educated and intelligent or something.
> We all get it OP. You are smarter and more educated than all of the founding fathers. Dazzle us with your genius.
>>57357402
The richest 1% of the American population own 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% own 50.5%
>>57356831
>MAKE THE CONSTITUTION MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REAL PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES!
It already is. Senators, Representatives, and Presidents are elected by citizens. Are you mad that not everyone agrees with you? Too bad. If you want to change the constitution then get a movement started to get 2/3 of congress to agree on it. Good luck. :^)
>>57357312
>The constitution was written by and for rich people. And it will continue to be that way unless something is done about it.
Ah yes, this tired old argument. If you don't realize that the constitution empowers people of the lower classes then you are very shortsighted. Please don't reproduce.
>>57356831
Can you explain exactly which parts of the constitution you have an issue with?
>>57357643
And?
>>57357643
>The top 20% own 85ish% of the wealth
>He literally doesn't know about the Pareto Principle.
Please, do not reproduce.
Oy Vey that right no more free speech of guns for you goy!
>>57356831
We're a democratic REPUBLIC
Remove your citizenship and go give it to some shit tier country that you long for
>>57356831
How dare you criticise the bible/quran/constitution?!?!
>>57356831
Your amendments all suck.
How bout an amendment that states that only humans have rights and corporations only get privileges, when we feel like giving them.
An amindment banning states from gerry rigging electorial bounderies.
An amendment preventing someone from serving back to back terms (politicians spend 90% of there time smoozing to downers instead of legislating), I would prefer this to generic term limits, but that's not a bad alternative.
>>57356831
Pretty sure constitutions were created to prevent the leaders of countries from going mad with power. Messing with the constitution is basically reinviting the absolute monarchy dictatorships that were european governments in the past.
>Get rid of the Senate: the only thing the Senate does anymore is impede progress.
Yeah, we need the legislative branch, you dense fuck.
Literally all you need to do is call for a constitutional convention from the state level - clean up campaign finance law, prevent PACs from existing and put a cap on donations from citizens at some low threshold, or do away with the system altogether and have state-funded elections without funding coming from any other source.
The Constitution's amendment process is probably the greatest fucking thing in the history of constitutions, ever. It's literally why we don't have to worry about rewriting the thing every 50 years or so. We can just change/add on the stuff we need as it arises.
>>57356831
>what are amendments
>Let's make Constitution for the modern population.
>As long as it represents the dickless crybaby college student and nobody else.
Yeah, nah. The Constitution serves as an enumeration of natural rights. You literally can't vote them away. No matter how big your crocodile tears, you cum swilling faggot.
>>57357661
>If you want to change the constitution then get a movement started to get 2/3 of congress to agree on it.
That is the wrong way to do it these days.
>The Constitution of the United States
>Article V
>The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments
>or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments
>convention for proposing amendments
Congress is broken, lets call for a constitutional convention and fix this shit ourselves.
The next amendment will ban all corporate money being used to influence politics. If your wealthy and you want to influence politics you will have to use your own money not the money of the company you can manipulate into spending theirs.
>>57358883
>implying ZOG wont burn up the constitution and write it out of history
Constitution? What are you talking about goy?
>>57356831
Getting this achieved would be a near impossibility. You'd basically have to overthrow the American government.
Good luck with that.
>>57356831
>Get rid of the Senate
How about you go fuck yourself.
>>57358955
A tall order for the most well armed and well educated civilization that has ever existed in history.
>>57356831
>growth
lolwut?
>real people
Landowning white males
>>57356831
Governments either work, or they don't. Time and modernity is of no importance.
>>57356831
We tried this once, and the War of Northern Aggression resulted.
>We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.
>>57358994
Isn't that what you have your epik guns for?
>>57359334
>the war of northern aggression
>>57356831
>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.
>reform the constitution
Because that would involve breaking the USA up into 3 or 4 separate nations.
>>57359334
>All independent and sovereign
>Couldn't agree on anything
No wonder they lost.
>>57359443
>supporting the top-hated Jew
>>57356831
>>57356831
>Get rid of the Senate: the only thing the Senate does anymore is impede progress.
Pro-Tip: Congress was created to stop the passage of bills so that only the most necessary could become law.
>>57356831
I will assume you are an immigrant who doesn't understand what the constitution means for the regular American. You have not study the constitution or politics. You can not fathom why our bill of rights exists since it is validated by the constitution. Our constitution was meant to last 1000 years because it was created to benefit the country and their citizens while understand the concept of oppression of a tyrannical government. Fuck you. I'm ashamed that we live in the same country.
>>57357661
>Presidents are elected by citizens.
Correction: The President is elected by the electoral college not the popular vote.
>>57359417
That's part of the reason. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be absolute mayhem.
>>57359558
Exactly this. It's supposed to be slow by nature, and ensure that bills go through good amounts of deliberation before making it into law.
It's just been corrupted by special interests/corporations, admittedly, decisions of the fucking judiciary had a lot to do with it.
If you want to attack something, attack the fucking idea of judicial review. That's what sold our country away.
>>57358901
Conventions only propose amendments.
The next amendment should kill citizens united, break up the two party system, further reduce the powers of the executive, add term limits, and give every political candidate a fixed operating income for campaigns - making donations and super PAC's illegal
>>57356831
>Birth rights are getting in the way of growth
I want you to tell me how restricting freedom encourages "growth."
>>57359334
>War of Northern Aggression
stay angered, Dixie
>Yanks: 1
>Rednecks: 0
Memeage aside, I'd be fine with letting states secede from the union, so long as they remain peaceful towards the USA.
>>57359475
That's in The Declaration of Independence, not the constitution.
>>57359745
It's been corrupted due to the nature of keynesian economic systems propagating a corporatist relationship between government and business interests.
An actual free market is the cure we need
>>57357643
The top 10 percent of income earners paid 68 percent of all federal income taxes in 2011 (the latest year available), though they earned 45 percent of all income. The bottom 50 percent paid 3 percent of income taxes, but earned 12 percent of income. Source: Internal Revenue Service.
>>57357056
/thread
Founding fathers knew what they were doing when they put together the constitution.
>>57359745
>It's just been corrupted by special interests/corporations
Special interests, or "factions" as Madison put it, are built in to the Constitution. Not only special interests but also governmental interests aka Separation of Powers. The only way to get rid of such special interests is through draconian repression which would be anathema to any free people. Thus it is best to allow special interests to pursue power but to ensure that it does not get to entrench itself. Thus why corporations compete with special interests not to mention special interest with special interests and corporations with corporations.
The Constitution was created in such a way that it could be changed as time passed so it could remain relevant. It's called the Amendment process.
The current problem with the Constitution is that people revere the document, and they hold the founding fathers in such high esteem that they're unwilling to make changes which need to be made.
It isn't that it can't be done, it's that some small percentage of the people want to hold us all hostage and refuse to allow anything to be changed.
FWIW, John Paul Stevens wrote an excellent book about six amendments which should be passed, I suggest everyone should read it.
But he says the biggest flaw of the Constitution is that it's too hard to amend.
>>57359840
Anon, I fear it's too late to institute a truly free market at this point.
Currently-existing megacorps would just eat everything up and would be able to shut new enterprises out from being able to compete, I can't think of any mechanism to prevent this that doesn't result in throwing the notion of "free market" out the window for some brief period to ensure a level playing field at the start of the game.
>>57359926
If the Constitution was too easy to amend it would not have any permanence or worthwhile stability.
>>57359959
Some government regulation is important. Regulation to prevent monopolies, for example.
People worry about abuses of power with the government run amok. Those same abuses can occur when corporate power runs amok.
>>57359998
He didn't say too easy, he said it should be made easier. The US Constitution is the hardest constitution in the world to amend.
>>57359833
Same thing
>>57360080
>He didn't say too easy, he said it should be made easier.
No, he said it is too hard. It is too hard for a very good reason. We do not want the Constitution to be the plaything of Congress or a minority of states.
>>57356831
I live in a city of 6 million and I've never seen a gun not on a cop. Just give them up America.
>>57360201
>I live in a city of 6 million
You live in Australia. Your anecdote matters little.
>>57360080
>The US Constitution is the hardest constitution in the world to amend.
There is not a single problem with that.
>>57359926
Not really true. We only hold the Bill of Rights with such reverence. That's only the first 10, which include freedom of speech/press/religion/petition, right to privacy, rights as far as search and siezure, conditions for quarters of soldiers, rights of the states, some trial rules, and yes, the right to bear arms.
Everything past that, nobody really cares about.
>>57360138
Only if you're ignorant, and don't realize that one is the supreme source of law in our nation, and the other is a letter which was basically a "fuck you" to England and carries no weight of law.
>>57360175
It requires two supermajority votes. First, it requires a supermajority of both chambers of congress, and then it requires a supermajority of all states to ratify it.
What harm would it be to make it a simple majority vote for congress to propose the amendment to the states for the states to then decide if it passes by a supermajority?
>>57359654
And you think the popular vote doesn't influence the electoral college?
>>57360249
We banned guns after the first mass shooting and haven't had one since. I'd say we're entirely relevant to the discussion.
>>57356831
Define growth and give examples of getting in the way.
>>57356831
Before I can take you seriously you have to finish that 3 page gender studies essay you have been putting off for a week.
>>57360252
The problem with that is 26 Senators can hold up the entire amendment process.
One quarter of the population should not be able to bring the entire amendment process to a complete standstill.
>>57357312
Then stop being a poor faggot and earn those mad dollars.
>>57356831
>Cameras should be mandatory inside the supreme court.
No, cameras in the Senate is a main drive behind all the pointless grandstanding, if the cameras left more would get done, no cameras.
But I do think we should shred the second amendment and rewrite it.
>>57360265
>nobody really cares about.
Quite a few care about 16A and the personal income tax. Many care about the two term limit. Others care about direct election of Senators (used to be state governments elected them).
>>57360304
>It requires two supermajority votes.
Exactly the point.
>What harm would it be to make it a simple majority vote for congress to propose the amendment to the states for the states to then decide if it passes by a supermajority?
I believe I called that as making the Constitution "the plaything of Congress." That would give any one party with a simple majority in both houses that ability to waste a lot of time and tax dollars proposing friendly amendments. Do you know why neither party has taken the "nuclear option" in the Senate and do away with the cloture vote?
>>57360315
Strawman.
>>57360327
>We banned guns after the first mass shooting and haven't had one since
Geoff Hunt
>>57360430
Correction, the 75% part is ratification of the states. Still, 34 Senators can completely stall amendments.
>>57360201
>>57360327
Don't lay the b8 on so thick; you give yourself away like that.
>>57360430
Then we elect those who will do their jobs.
Democracy sure is swell, ain't it?
>>57360472
>That would give any one party with a simple majority in both houses that ability to waste a lot of time and tax dollars
This already happens. There have been how many votes to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and how many of them have actually had a chance at repealing it?
>>57360304
Bro, we declared our independence with the constitution. did you graduate 8th grade
>>57360472
>Geoff Hunt
>Relevant
Try again
>>57360587
>This already happens.
[citation needed]
To the best of my knowledge, while many individual Congressmen propose amendments very few, and none recently, have been passed by Congress.
>>57360664
>Relevant
Pardon? Are you claiming that Geoff hunts shooting and slaying of four people is not a mass shooting?
>>57356831
>Why is There No Effort to Reform the Constitution?
WHY WOULD ANYONE ASK THIS FUCKING QUESTION
>>57356831
The Constitution is a weird but somewhat effective way to substitute a monarch aka the physical representation of the soul of the nation. Blame the freemason retards who made it be that way.
So, you're better with it than without it. Trying to change it will just cause chaos due to the constant flow of relative values, which will vary with time, instead of an objective "truth".
>>57360622
You clearly did not.
>Inb4 I was just pretending.
>>57360538
The problem when you get an extremist group like the Tea Party which is holding the GOP hostage is that they become obsessed with purity of ideology. It leaves little room for any ability to compromise, because they see compromise as weakness. Compromise is merely good governance.
>>57360622
What the fuck is wrong with you? We declared our independence with the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776. The Constitution of the United States was not ratified until June 21, 1788.
>>57360722
i have a college degree
in what world do you live in i live in the 50 states that were founded in 1776 faggot
>>57360717
Because they are fucking ignorant senpai, because the vast majority of Americans fucking uninformed, barely educated, mouth breathing retards, and those retards get to vote.
>>57360684
You misunderstood. Congress already wastes time and money. It's their sport of choice. Not necessarily with Constitutional amendments simple legislation will do. My point is they will waste money regardless.
>>57360622
You might want to go read about the Articles of Confederation.
>>57360792
>You misunderstood. Congress already wastes time and money
Let's get this straight. You want to give Congress the ability to waste MORE?
>>57360794
yeah that was before 1776
>>57360817
It wouldn't waste more, really. They'd have a simple up or down vote. And then it would go on the state ballots every Congressional election cycle. The cost would be relatively negligible.
>>57356831
>thinking the American government could rewrite itself to be anything better than it is now
>>thinking the American government could rewrite itself to be anything not horribly much baddenered than it is now
>>57360847
Clearly you're a moron.
The Declaration of Independence was just that. It was us declaring ourselves independent of England.
It has no weight in law. It was just a nifty little bit of soap box talk.
The Constitution came along much later.
>>57360766
Except nothing was founded in 1776. The articles of Confederation were adopted in 1777 by 13 States, and then later scrapped and replaced entirely by the Constitution in 1788.
I don't have a college degree but I can and actually do read things now and then, having a degree doesn't mean a god damned thing if you're still an ignorant fool.
>>57360443
>remove the misunderstanding-prone militia clause
>repeal GCA
>repeal NFA
>remove F from BATFE
>recognise as unconstitutional states' AWB, mag caps, NY SAFE, etc.
>enact nation-wide constitutional carry
Bam. Firearm laws unfucked.
>>57360943
>>57360956
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
>1776
says so right there
>>57360847
>yeah that was before 1776
[citation needed]
>Formal ratification by the states was completed by 1781.
>>57360871
>It wouldn't waste more, really.
Bullshit. You give Congress the power to ratify amendments by simple majority and you honestly believe a party with a simple majority will not take advantage of that? Exactly how naive are you?
>>57361076
Did you not read what I said above, idiot?
The Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4th, 1776.
The Constitution came along later.
>>57361094
No.
I said give Congress the power to forward amendments to the States with a simple majority. Congress shouldn't ratify amendments, the states should ratify the amendments.
>>57360871
Actaully, nevermind. You are that naive. You honestly assert that anything accomplished by either house is a "simple up or down vote." Go read Redman's "Dance of Legislation" as you clearly have a rudimentary grasp of how the Legislature works.
>>57357643
>34.6% of the country's total wealth,
as if this is a static amount and not a variable.
>>57361076
The declaration of independence neither established nor founded anything.
It was a letter written by the representatives of the continental congress to the King of England stating their intention to rebel, nothing more. It was like a petition, except instead of asking, they were telling. It holds literally zero legal weight, and held just as little then. It was literally just a Statement, the way that political bodies makes blustery long winded statements in front of cameras today.
>>57361216
>I said give Congress the power to forward amendments to the States with a simple majority.
Which requires ratification by both houses. Congress already wastes enough time and money with bullshit proposals like "Personhood at Conception" idiocy because bills can be sponsored by any legislator over any subject matter and you want to make it easier for Congress to sanction those kind of idiotic amendments? You sir, are an ignoramus.
>>57361076
You're a fucking Business major, aren't you?
>>57361216
>Did you not read what I said above, idiot?
Can you not read? THEY ARE THE SAME THIG
the FIFTY GODAMN united states of america were founded in 1776 with the dec
>>57360943
While it technically isn't law, many Supreme Court cases have referenced the Declaration. So it does have some legal importance in that it is an example of how the Founding Fathers thought, which is useful in interpreting the Constitution sometimes.
>>57359334
>Northern Aggression
>N O R T H E R N
You fucking Nigger-riggers literally shot first.
Like god damn I don't fucking blame you for being upset about how bad the North bungled 'reconstruction,' that shit was garbage for everyone, black or white. But fuck's sake, at least own up to firing the first goddamn shots, you cowards.
>>57357312
>Faggots like this will tell you cultural marxism is a wacky conspiracy theory
>>57361311
>(you)
Alright time to stop feeding it.
>>57361413
Cultural marxism is a buzz word that means "Things conservatives don't like."
>>57361224
I know that passing normal legislation in the house is a simple majority vote. In the senate it is as well, except that filibusters have become the rule, not the exception, and so there has to be a 60/40 vote to invoke cloiture on every fucking piece of legislation.
I know that some votes require a supermajority of 2/3rds to pass. Such as in removing a sitting President after he has been impeached.
I'm not as naive as you think.
And yes, I'm aware there would be a lot of idiotic amendments proposed. But I'd rather some idiotic amendments get proposed along with some good ones than none at all because some people are holding Congress hostage.
>>57361336
I'll agree with you there. It is not in and of itself law, but it has been used to determine the spirit of some laws.
>>57361414
Damn. Alright. I should go to bed now. I have work in the morning.
Always nice trolling the /pol/. Peace out my niggas. Ya'll my homie bopper crew, you know m8s?
>>57359840
>>57359959
>>57360080
>mfw everyone wants market socialism but are afraid to admit it bcuz skurry red gommuniss wurds
>>57360201
>I live in a city of 6 million and I've never seen a gun not on a cop. Just give them up America.
you are a subject not a citizen
>>57361512
>But I'd rather some idiotic amendments
I don't care what you prefer. I care when you make idiotic statements like "my suggestion would not lead to more waste." You are making up shit you claim you know is completely wrong and you expect me to be persuaded in some fashion?
>>57361474
>I learned this from the daily show
Kill yourself.
4CHAN TODAY
AMERICAN GUN NUTS ON SUICIDE WATCH.
"Muh Guns"
"Muh 2nd Amendment"
Ha ha ha ha - stricter gun laws are going to happen, whether you like it or not.
>inb4 a shit load of the usual excuses
>>57361540
I'm not afraid to admit it, I just get ad-hominem'd with FUCK YOU COMMIE SCUM every time I suggest it because most people are idiots, doubly so on this board.
>>57361583
Okay, as it stands:
Amendment is proposed. There's floor debate, and it's shot down.
As I'm suggesting:
Amendment is proposed. There's floor debate, and it might pass.
The only difference in the cost between the two is that states would have to print it on the ballots. Congress already spends the time on deliberating them.
>>57360725
>extremist group like the Tea Party
extremist loses its meaning when you apply it to everyone you disagree with.
>>57356831
>actually fucking with the Bill of Rights
End your life.
has somebody mentioned that it's nearly un fucking possible to do because votes? hope so
>>57361762
I'm not applying it to everyone I disagree with.
I'm applying it specifically to the Tea Party, and to people like Grover Norquist, and groups like the Christian Coalition. There are plenty of other groups I disagree with. The defining characteristic is that these are the groups that tend to call Republicans who are willing to negotiate things like RINOs and such.
Any group which demands obedience to an ideology is an extremist group.
>>57361512
>I know that some votes require a supermajority of 2/3rds to pass.
we can end this thread now, is done
>>57361742
>The only difference in the cost between the two is that states would have to print it on the ballots.
You missed the whole committee process before it gets to a vote, retard. If most proposals fail, each house is going to send a proposed bill doomed to failure to die in its first or second committee. If it has a chance of passage, and by simple majority a great deal more of them will, that means more committee processes, more waste, and that doesn't even include having the states government having to deliberate about them and their potential impact on state law rather than simply "print it on the ballots."
Really. Go read Redman's Dance of Legislation you clearly have a simplistic grasp of how legislatures (both state and federal) function.
>>57360664
Australia is a country of 20m as opposed to 320
Australia is surrounded by ocean and guns aren't manufactured there
Australia is a relatively new country compared to the US
Until recently Australia has had no immigrants
Australia has a relatively low crime rate and most of the habitable land has been built upon so there is nowhere near as much to hunt as in the US; therefore there's no real need for guns
Guns are not completely banned in Australia
Australia has never had a civil war
When the gun ban was issued following the Port Arthur massacre 85% of the country supported it, whereas in the US that's not the case; a gun buyback program was created there but bought back less than a million guns - the US has over 300m guns so this would probably not be effective. Criminals would not sell theirs.
Using Australia as an example of how a gun ban would work in the US is extremely dishonest or shows that the person has no clue what they're talking about.
>>57362603
>Until recently Australia has had no immigrants
American education everybody
>>57361675
No, I learned it from special snowflakes like you. Fuck off.
>>57362896
What I mean is no niggers. We've had niggers being imported for 400 years, Australia has to deal with petrol-sniffers (where the US handled theirs just fine) and Maori. Nobody except whites was emigrating to Aus until what, 30 years ago? And half of the non-whites are Asian.
I should have put "no niggers until recently" because it's more accurate, but I copy/paste that every time someone says gun bans worked in Australia and I can't use the word nigger everywhere
>>57363156
Racist...
>>57363156
>nigger
Try "forcibly relocated populations," anon. I believe that's the proper Newspeak terminology.
>>57361714
Americans are not cowards like you who would just give your rights away.
>>57356831
Oy Vey, progress is a one way road, goyim! You're on the wrong side of history, don't you know it's 2015!?
>>57363961
>Americans are not cowards
No you just live in fear of your Government.
>>57365150
Considering how Obama repeatedly calls for gun control I'd think it is the government that is afraid of its people.
>>57357056
/thread
>>57356831
>>57356831
dumbasses like yourself can never articulate what it is that the constitution needs to be changed. the usa constitution is perfect. it has given birth to the oldest republic in the world.
what you need to do is read the motherfukcing federalist papers aka the guidebook on how to use the constitution. follow the user guide and things will go smoothly.
>>57356831
Age holds no relevance to the merits. What you are talking now is literal communist propaganda.
>>57356831
>impede progress.
Obamabot detected
