Guys, can we rationalise for a sec and have an Islam appreciation thread? HEAR ME OUT! I've lived in New Zealand all my life but I frequent Malaysia quite often since I have relatives and friends living there.
What a misinterpreted view Islam has had in the mainstream. A rich and diverse religion full of people from different ethnic groups, I do not believe the actions of few should represent an entire race and religion. Although stereotypes exist for a reason and there are statistics showing some very extreme radical Islamic ideas, let's just boil it down to the everyday Muslim. Do you really think the average Muslim advocates for extremist laws on a regular basis? They're just people, like you and me :)
Now before we all go "HURRR DURRR ISLAM, ISIS GOAT FUCKERS ALL OF THEM" At least us Westerners should try to do some research first, just to be rational and have some facts...:)
I dunno if y'all hate John Green but this video ties up everything about Islam in a generally appeasing way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpcbfxtdoI8
tldr: watch the video (maybe), research some facts about Islam and then let's make up our minds
New Zealand you will never be able to compete with Australia or even Canada for shitposting quality.
Not even a good shitpost. As soon as you open it and see the inside of Hagia Sophia, you know it's a shitpost.
>>57246338
lol this is blatant wellington tier banter, you are shit cunt.
>>57246435
fuck off canada. There is nothing cool about your country.
>>57246338
>At least us Westerners should try to do some research first, just to be rational and have some facts
Do you know about the Principle of Abrogation? It states when a contradiction is found, the new teachings take precedence over the old ones—as such, the Islam of Medina holds higher priority over the peaceful Meccan Islam, due to the very logical principle of abrogation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_%28tafsir%29
Also, compulsory viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU
>>57246338
No, fuck Islam, and this is why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYAcLudBbhg&list=WL&index=3
>>57246338
>Do you really think the average Muslim advocates for extremist laws on a regular basis?
Stop trying to skew the facts, they're not extremist laws, they're literal interpretations of the Qu'ran, they're Islamic laws.
>>57246338
This was a Church way is it a shity mosque now.
How peaceful is this atrocity?!
>>57246643
actually canada is really cool, cold even
>NZ education
>>57246338
>Hagia Sophia is a former Christian patriarchal basilica
Why do these shitskins take over amazing cathedrals and just fucking destroy them or hang their tacky shit everywhere
God damn fuck niggers and sandniggers
>>57246947
Okay hmmm. this is very interesting. I've always found it extremely fascinating how the Quran is taken as the literal word of god HOWEVER I was not aware of the wikipedia article you linked me. Very interesting stuff. Unfortunately I am not well educated enough to make a counter argument. Thank you for the information
>>57247289
Have you ever studier the life of Muhammed?
It basically is about how a man starts in a city not supporting him where he have to play it calm to not be persecuted and then manages to gain control of a whole other city, allowing him to play it aggressive and start to expand his power by military force.
>>57246952
Hmmmm......hard to ignore that this is a fact. However watching the video when the speaker starts radicalising, some of the audience appears to be laughing as in "is this guy serious?" I don't know if the audience is on the guys side or just descended into mob mentality. Thank you for this
>>57246338
>your wife goes out and gets drunk
>your daughter is turning lesbian
>this is bad
>you ask "what do I do?"
>suddenly Achmed knocks on your door
>he wants to move in
>Achmed puts your wife in a cage
>Achmed locks your daughter in her room
>Achmed removes all bacon from your house
>Achmed kills your dog
>Achmed demands jizya from you
>now you work all day just to give your wage to Achmed
>Achmed rapes your wife and daughter every night
>you watch from the cupboard
Now ask yourself, is Achmed your friend just because he stopped your wife drinking and your daughter being gay?
>>57247168
Another interesting fact is that more rapes and murders were probably committed inside that building than any other in the world. when the Turks took the city, they unleashed an orgy of rape and murder of nuns, infants, and everyone in the city not capable of defending it the likes of which had never been seen before. It's hard to even look at the inside of that building if you know the story.
>>57247384
Ah yes, the phrase "Islam spread by the sword". I do find it fascinating that Muhammed was an actual ruler unlike let's say Jesus. This however is a fact and yes there may be a lot of sketchy Hadith's and references of what happened, this is commonplace in any monotheistic religion is it not?
>>57246338
If you love Muslims and Malaysia so much, then get the fuck out of my country and go live with them in their shit country.
>>57247591
What is common? That there are many rulers or that there are many scetchy hadiths and references?
About the actual ruler part, the only Christian/Jewish Prophet who ruled I can actually think of only one and that's Moses.
And he didn't really rule a kingdom but instead a varying tribe moving from one place to another.
About the sketchy part, I think Islam is rather alone about that.
Sure, Christinity do also get verses and such who are controversial, but most of christianity do agree on what verses that are cannon and who that are not, the sects that do not barely existing any more.
In Islam on the other hand we have had this "civil war" going on since the death of Muhammed between the Shites and Sunnis over what verses that are correct and who are not. In Christianity it has been more about the interpretation.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.
>>57246338
>why appreciate Islam, when all it wants to do is force you to convert or decapitate you if you don't?
>can't rationalize such radical beliefs. Your religion better get with the times or be destroyed.
>better destroy your "heretic" brothers before the rest of the world decides to wipe out each and every mudslime because not doing anything means you're enablers.
>>57247524
turks should be nuked
>>57247681
C'mon bud I'm non religious. I know in their eyes I am scum and to be eliminated. It's just when you frequently visit an exotic land, it's kinda human nature to wanna explore, morbid curiosity if you wanna call it.
>>57246338
God you sound like 90% of the people who live in this fucked up country.
We are becoming as leftist as Sweden.
>Last week the head of police was told BY THE MEDIA to stop pulling over Maori people and giving them fines.
>HE AGREED
So these useless idiots who drive around with no licences, no warrant of fitness and no registration get off scot free. While everyone else will be fined.
>All this because lefties and the idiots who support them think the prison statistics are "racist" and white cops are out pinning crimes on Maoris.
>They fail to see just how diverse the NZ Police force is (At least in Auckland) Iv been pulled up by Asians who can barely speak English, Hindus wearing turbans and god damn Maoris who were bigger assholes then the white cops.
>>57246338
BOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>57246338
Let actual Muslims apology for their religion not some hack white jewish guy I mean give me a break with all these armchair Muzzies telling us how we should feel about it, its like if a bunch of douchebags from Pakistan were trying to tell me Christians were okay or Icelandics about the Buddhists.
>>57247775
It's all right. You probably know way more about Islam than I do given that you're answering me seriously. It is really sad how Islam is extremely definite and does not allow any new ideas at all. When I first learned about people in Islam killing each other over what verses are correct, it really sunk my heart
>>57246338
> :)
Why are you trying to outshitpost Straia?
>>57246952
Muslim here. What the fuck is this video
>>57248206
I think that's the problem with having a warlord as your number 1# prophet.
Another problem is that the state and the "church" are one. The leader of the state is supposed to lead the church, so he got no problems with separating them.
IN Christianity you usually had the leader of the church be someone else than the monarch, so they didn't really have such a strong interest in making the church all that powerful.
Even during the height of the inquisition Spain didn't turn into a theocracy as an example.
(Feel free to correct me on this Fellow /pol/ artists)
>>57246338
Why are you posting a picture of a Christian Orthodox Cathedral as the title image for a thread about Islam?
>be white
>DNA test
>1% malaysian because dutch ancestors fucked slaves
>lumped in with this guy now
Fuck off islam has no place in the civilized world they stole their culture from literally everyone because they were repeatedly keked by Europe
>>57246338
Their greatest structures are either direct copies of glorious catholic churches via emulation, or literal theft
the Hagia Sophia WILL be back in christian hands by the century's end
>>57248414
Hmmm never really thought about that Muhammed was a warlord. That actually explains a lot of the extremist views actually.
Wasn't in the past the church and state were one? As in the church had a huge impact on everyone's lives such as redistributing land and collecting taxes? or am I wrong?
>>57248545
ahh.....that really hit the feels.....how did you know I have Dutch ancestry.......?
>>57246338
I'm well aware, that the Islamic community is ethnically and even ideologically diverse. They still share the same core beliefs, which lead to the suppression of free inquiry and speech, authoritarianism and senseless violence.
>>57248321
The truth about why there will always be radical Muslims.
>>57248780
Yes I will agree, even in this modern age it is still very mob mentality like
>>57248637
You bet your ass, once islam conquered much of the middle east and Africa, and the entirety of Spain, they installed three caliphates and ruined the Mediterranean by funding piracy, they subjugated every other religious group living under their empire and caused the dark ages. Your "religion" rewound civilization. Your religion is basically equal to a Mongolian horde and many steppe asian Mongolians converted to islam once they established a kingdom. Now people follow it blindly for "Muh religion of peace" not knowing its inception was to conquer and capture. Muhammad was literally a brown hitler of his time if you will.
>>57246338
Kill yourself, do the world a favor
>>57246338
The Hagia Sophia is Christian architecture, and Islam has been ripping it off for their mosques ever since.
>John Green
Notorious kek, don't believe a word he says.
I'm not watching his video, but I'll bet you good money he won't mention that the Quran literally says you should beat your wife if she steps out of line, and cut off hands and feet for thieving.
>>57248892
This brings us to the the turks, the turks seriously threatened much of Europe, they relentlessly attacked the Bosphorus, were the main funders of Barbary pirates who raided infidel merchants and coasts, traded slaves etc. They eventually managed to conquer up to Hungary but got beaten back after WW1 all because "Muh religion of peace". This is all very bad but whats that you say? Europe was infighting for hundreds of years too? Not shit their trade was ruined they had to fight to survive amongst themselves with no imminent threat they did a fine job of it. So now think of the jewish role in all of this, Rome ruled over the kikes for quite some time dont you think those kikes would have pulled something to get this started? The world is a cluster fuck of this shit, we're seeing the remains of all of this transpiring
>>57246338
>I frequent Malaysia
Then you should know how those lazy corrupt sloths portray themselves as Mudslimes.
Fuck off you librul kek.
>>57249280
"Hey lets put minarets on 4 corners of our stolen temples becoz we wuz muhammad and sheit"
>>57246643
They have Ariel Rebel.
Wait, is quebec still canada?
>>57246338
There is nothing wrong with Islam. Its the culture that predominates in much of the middle east that islam exists in that is the problem. Religion is only as bad as the culture it exists in,
>>57249455
>ariel rebel is 30+ yrs old
>her pussy still looks like lettuce
>>57248592
>Hagia Sophia
>Catholic
>>57246338
See the recent post about the dress.
This minority group, claiming Muslims are okay, cough Jews, are trying to shift your opinions and increase the rate of societal collapse.
Ignore all Mudslime posters
>>57248892
>caused the Dark Ages
>>57246338
>I've lived in New Zealand all my life
>GOAT FUCKERS ALL OF THEM
No, in this case we're all going SHEEP FUCKERS ALL OF THEM
>>57247775
Christian apologists have nade an art of quarantining the craziest parts of their religion. What we have now is a domesticated version of christianity
>>57249606
Oh it was you wasn't it? My mistake Boris
I read again Sinbad the sailor not so long ago. Made me realize that Islam and arabs had a pretty great culture/art/civilisation, centuries ago. How everything turned out so bad ?
>>57249960
This video makes me incredibly sad. So much potential for a new (then) country like Iraq. I guess that's one of the consequences of multiculturalism...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AajPxROvcTA
>When you realize Islam is literally the perfect ideology for mankind
>When you realize a form of Islam practiced by Europeans and Westerners, would literally put us in a second golden age of science, humanity and technology
>>57246338
>but I frequent Malaysia quite often since I have relatives and friends living there.
Confirmed kebab sympathist. This ackbar enables radical Islam by defending his religion in its current form. No mehmet, "We have good people guise" does not cut it. Your religion is a vicious and dirty cesspool that should have been left in the medieval period.
Crescent moon please go.
>>57251835
Golden age of science:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rF3wXGqkxQ
>>57249494
This
Islam with classical European culture would be the greatest thing ever
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Islam
I mean look at Andalus, it was Muslim and European, and it was like a post-Enlightenment, 16th centurty tier nation, in the 800s
It is funny because Muhammad introduced Islam to remove a lot of the barbaric Arab practices, and for a short burst of time, when Islam spread early on, they would leave their old Arab culture, and follow better ones, often adapting the good parts of Byzantine and Persian culture (see reforms under Umar's caliphate).
And then by the time the early Muslims died out, and the Shia-Sunni split happened, the old culture started creeping back in. The Andalusians were somewhat isolated from the rest of the Muslim world, so they continued their enlightened period
>>57252225
>one retarded Saudi cleric
versus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
Saudis are corrupt as shit anyway, they claim to be so Islamic, then allow Americans to build millitary bases all over their country, including near the Islamic holy sites (half of which they destroyed, because they don't want anyone to remember what Islam was like in the early days)
>>57252373
>because they don't want anyone to remember what Islam was like in the early days
incase you want sauce because you think I'm lying
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia
not half, like 90%, many of the buildings which actually existed since Muhammad's times, which they have now replaced with shopping malls and skyscrapers
Fuck Islam and fuck justifying it's spread through decadent morality and most importantly fuck you.
>>57246338
>Posting a picture of The Hagia Sophia
>Used to be a Christian marvel of architecture before being invaded and conquered by Islamic Jihadists
>John Green
>Ignoring the Genocide of Banu Qurayza and the slaying disbelievers
>3 million views
>Ignoring the fact Zakat is only for Muslims, non Muslims forced to pay Jizya or face execution
Fuck John Green, the fucking lying cunt. One minute he's vilifying Christian Crusades, but sucking Jihadist dick
>>57251835
No. Islam suppresses science. It also tells you a ritual to wipe your ass and which direction to face when shitting.
Not fucking kidding.
Do visit malaysia though. Devirginize their women and beat the muslims into compliance. Malays are savages.
>>57247959
The police go to great lengths to not be just white people. It's insane to say they are being racist since there's so many minorities in the police.
>>57252373
Don't give a fuck about the past. Only care about the institutions governing the religion today. The fact is, Islam as practiced today, is a backwards-ass ideology.
Listing Muslim scientists doesn't mean anything either. (And note: most of those are from the 10th - 14th centuries.)
You claim Saudis are "corrupt as shit" and "claim to be so Islamic", and yet millions of Muslims migrate every year to Mecca on pilgrimage. Muslims from all over the world.
I don't care about what your bumblefuck ideology has done in the past. I don't care whether YOU personally have the opinion that it would be the next great thing. I care about what your ideology stands for TODAY.
I have Arab friends. All educated. Kind. Hard-working. I've lived in Arab countries. These friends are not the norm. The average Arab is lazy, arrogant, very poorly educated and prone to skim excesses off foreign (non-muslim's) hard-work and productivity, while giving said immigrant a pittance.
^These are the people who control your religion. Your ideology. They are your ambassadors currently. Maybe if you and all of these other great "moderate" Muslims decided to get rid of the rot in their own ranks and shape the religion into something more palatable and benevolent, you wouldn't find resistance on these boards.
As it stands you're trying to convince us that Islam is something it's not and spreading rhetoric. And you're not even cherry-picking good, contemporary examples to do so.
>>57252894
>they migrate to Mecca
no they go for a pilgrimage to mecca, because Islam asks them to, over 1400 years ago. Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with that, they just took over Mecca and Medina
Everything else you said about Arabs today is true
>>57252961
>migrate every year to Mecca on pilgrimage
^That's what I said no? I went to Riyadh on business during the Hajj and was greeted by a plane full off half-naked Pakis eye-fucking me.
In fact, the flight was delayed because said Pakis were trying to wash their feet in the plane toilet and walking up and down the aisles during take-off.
While in Riyadh someone tried to punch me in the face for being white. An off-duty police officer tried to extort me for $500. I was nearly turned away from doing my WORK due to safety concerns (concerns for my life).
Even in more "moderate" Arab countries (like Dubai and Bahrain) the locals were celebrating 9/11 in the streets. I was getting tear-gassed every night in my apartment because the locals were dinduing because they all thought they should be CEOs with shitty highschool diplomas. These countries are not poor by any stretch. They have wealth and development, and yet still, they have extremely low levels of education.
That's what your religion currently is. A bunch of uneducated and barely literate extremists. And the leaders of those regions, both religious and political like it that way.
>>57246338
>HEAR ME OUT!
>about Islam
No.
I've heard about everything I need to know you little shit.
>>57253273
So what are Muslims who need to do the pilgrimage meant to do? Not go, because Saudis currently control Hejaz?
It is a religious requirement to go on pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina
>have an Islam appreciation thread?
Stopped reading here.
>>57253372
Whether you like it or not, the position you have taken enables these regimes. By trying to divert attention away from the facts about Islam and the medieval nature of its current practice, you are enabling mass-ignorance, stupidity and the hubris that comes with it.
If you love Islam so much, educate yourself in real scientific pursuits, educate others, and fight to change the religion from within. Don't take an apathetic stance on a system which willingly encourages and spreads ignorance and stupidity.
If humans hadn't fought against this we'd all still be nigging in forests, and would be swaddled in animal skins.
>>57252961
Mecca exiled mohammMAD for being a violent dickhead.
MohamMAD killed the jews in medina who sheltered hom after he was exiled from mecca.
He then took his army and killed he people of mecca. (And raped all the women)
He hen took his army killing everyone and raping the women from spain to the edge of india.
Religion of peace.
Gengjis khan basically has thr same story. Exiled from his village for being a dickhead. Meets some sheepherders who rescue him. He barters with some nomads to kill the male herders and rape the women. He then goes back to his home tribe, kills the men, rapes the women. He then makes it to somewhere in lithuania.
The survivors in these countries are thr descendants of the most violent, evil people. They dont deserve to live.
Africa for 5k years has been big nigguh rapes neighbor tribe. Wow they all are violent? Go figure
Lesson; kill criminals, dont spare them.
>>57246338
reminder its because of the mongols that islam turned into the monstrosity it is today
>>57253633
Well I'm not, I specifically stand for a European cultured Muslims, which Arabs in general, at this point in time are not capable of
I am pretty sure, in the first post I made in this thread, I was talking about how great a Muslim society that was formed by Europeans (ethnics, not immigrants) would be.
Maybe, after seeing this form of Islam spread successfully, Arabs and other Muslims would learn from it, and abandon there few hundred year old pseudo-Islamic ideology
>>57253738
And it is every individual within Islam's fault that it's still a shitheap of an institution over 500 years later.
>>57253738
Shut up clockmed. Inshitallah feces be upon him
>>57246338
>Islam appreciation
>posts a Catholic building where Christians were slaughtered and enslaved
Wew lads
not true at all, the malays here are supremacist scum, us non muslims pay sharia tax
>>57253784
Again.. Europe has its own problems. The people here are goose-stepping towards a backwards-ass position. Partly because of political propaganda and partly because of immigration.
I don't claim Europe to be the bastion of all things awesome right now either. I do, however, recognize that problems here need fixing and if I sit back and just let things happen, I'm just as responsible as the idiots who are perpetrating this nonsense.
>>57253786
you dont understand
genghis almost wiped out islam completely
like anything that is almost killed it has to adapt to survive
a harder more aggressive islam was born in response to that
>>57253861
If there's one thing Muslims are good at, it's rape. So here's some appreciation for those rape skills.
>>57246338
>islam appreciation
>posts picture of the Greek Orthodox Church of the Divine Wisdom
>>57246338
that's some high test in the blue skirt
>>57253888
One day the proc will free you from the malays by gassing them. Please be patient
>>57253916
No, you don't understand. YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL have the POWER to be the change you wish to see envisaged. YOU have the POWER to influence other Muslims. To work hard. To educate yourself. To build better institutions.
Since you are trying to shift blame to a group of people who did something half a millennia ago, I can only assume you are not interested in changing Islam in its current form, and only want to convert kafirs. I which case you can suck my 2" wonder, you choad.
>>57253888
Holy shit then it's true. So there is Jizya? I've asked my relatives living there and they've declined to comment
>>57253998
lmao you think im muslim?
kek
just helping you slags get some basic understanding of history
>>57253916
It was never anything but rapey.
Fuck off. You are lebo scum or indo scum? Id really like to know which country gets nuked first
>>57253982
come soon brother
>>57253916
Not just that, but the hard-ass extremist Muslim scholars, that no one took seriously before, that always spouted shit about science being haram, and math's being the devil's magic, and everyone including the Caliphs, would just ignore, but not punish, because they don't want to censor different ideas, suddenly had a platform to talk about how science brought down the Muslim society.
When you see libraries being burnt, and scientists being slaughtered, then those scholars would come out and say "See! Allah is punishing us because we followed and dwelled into science and maths, it happened in Andalus, and now it is happening to us here in Baghdad! Truly, this science bullshit is the downfall of humanity, and Allah is punishing us for engaging in it!"
>>57246338
>/pol/
>Islam appreciation.
My sides are rocketing throughout the cosmos, OP.
>>57254045
Oh I'm sorry.. I must have missed the part where you:
-Come from Malaysia originally, (a country with Muslim iconography on its flag.)
- Have relations in Malaysia.
- Visit Malaysia frequently.
But yeah, I guess you have no sympathies for Islam right? No Muslim relatives? No ties to Islam?
Just decided to come here and give us a history lesson? How kind! How benevolent!
Was thinking about this looking at that photo: the night before Constantinople fell, many people reported seeing an eerie, green light around Hagia Sophia. The next morning, the city fell and the Turks went on their rampage. Later, it was said to be "the Holy Spirit leaving the Church." Byzantine history/Lit is actually really interesting. Would love to be really rich and just spend the rest of my life on topics like that. In an earlier time, would love to have been an academic, bc it's almost the same experience (with less freedom).
>>57254128
you brain dead mate?
look at the fucking ID
>>57254012
Yup, they call it "bumi putra", sanskrit for "sons of the land", essentially non-muslims pay 20% more for properties
Also in government unis they have an 80% muslim quota despite the country's population only being 60% muslim
>>57254062
Welcome to organized religion dipshit. It always starts off benevolent until it can reach a critical mass (typically 50.00000001% of the population) and then kills any kind of independent scientific discourse.
It is predominantly a control mechanism for populations. It is a political tool. As such it's subject to the same corruption and abuses as government.
>>57254012
The malays are welfare niggers. They live off the jizya imposed upon the chinese.
One of the reasons theyve developed so fast is that they understand taxes fairly wrll because of their history with singapore. So they let in whites now, obliged to pay the jizya but no corporate tax or capgains. In an indirect way, their retardation has led them to the most efficient form of parasitism.
Thry dont let chinese leave, they dont let them own more than 3X% of a company, chinese dont recieve welfare, it goes on and on.
Kill every malay. Every single one.
>>57254193
Yes, Malaysia is extremely infamous for gearing almost all laws to benefit Malay Muslims. All the Malaysians I've met here who weren't Malays left for that reason. They were afraid even if they were good, they wouldn't be able to study in uni because Malays would be priority.
>>57254167
My bad. Fed up of Muslim apologists in general. Rustles my jimmies.
Sorry brah.
>>57254237
>all religions stifles science
how about you open a history book instead of smoking buds all day mate
>>57253998
I personally don't think blaming anyone is going to solve shit
I mean one of the reasons the majority of the Arabs are so shit, because they always go on about le Israel and America bogeeyman
You would have lazy incompetent Arabs that have the chance to go to school and university, but refuse to, then they grow up to be untrained, skill-less taxi drivers, or shop assistants, with like 12 kids, and then complain about how Israel is keeping the Arabs down, and America is stopping us from being successful
I mean sure, America and the West has fucked over Arabs in the past, and America and Israel are still doing it, but not to the degree that they complain
Thing is, Arabs are un-inspired. The honest few times they tried to do something good, they get destroyed. What they need is real inspiration, coming from other Muslim countries.
SEA would have been a good candidate, even Pakistan had hope. Syria was pretty stable before the civil war, maybe after they win with the help of Russia, and be stable for a while, they could achieve something
>>57254193
In beijing they are trying to convince the westerners to begin advocatig for muslim finance laws to be established. I eavesdropped a conversation at a business hotel.
They are shameless. They also know we dont put up with their bullshit, so they go and get white liberals to do their dirty work for them.
>>57254378
Or they have a genetically low iq, hovering around 82.
No, that couldnt be it. No way.
>>57254237
Except that modern universities were literally invented by the Catholic church. Stop being an edgy faggot.
>>57254378
What they need is a modern-tier education system and hard work.
We need that in Europe too.
>>57254378
It is true though. Politics seeps into anything that broadly speaks to the population. See: radio, media, education, social-media, religion, broader internet.
So while religion probably isn't directly responsible for many of the problems which have been committed in its name, it does enable these systems.
The real problem always lies in politics and governance. Just take a look at all of the batshit policies, and batshit ideologies which have cropped up over the last decade and it's clear as day. Especially in the west.
>>57254237
The fall of Baghdad wasn't some natural event, or "Muslims becoming too big"
Genghis Khan literally came and fucked them over, but honestly that happened a long time, and if you read my other post, it shouldn't have affected them this much, but there is little hope for Arabs picking up where they left off, they need inspiration from some other culture, or some rare Arab country that managed to not get fucked over by the west, maybe with some help from Russia, could be a good idea
They are a threat to my survival and will be dealt with as such.
They are genociding europe as we speak. John green is fucking vile.
>>57254437
Liberals should be gassed along with them for enabling these barbarians
>>57253664
>On the night of 16/17 September 1943, while the 13th SS Division was training in Villefranche-de-Rouergue in France, a group of pro-Partisan soldiers led by Muslim and Catholic junior officers[31] staged a mutiny within the Pioneer battalion. Led by Ferid Džanić, Božo Jelinek (aka Eduard Matutinović), Nikola Vukelić and Lutfija Dizdarević, they captured most of the German personnel and executed five German officers, including battalion commander SS-Obersturmbannführer Oskar Kirchbaum. Apparently, the mutineers believed that many of the enlisted men would join them and they could reach the western Allies.
>The revolt was put down with the assistance of the unit imam, Halim Malkoč
#NotAllMuslims
>>57254527
The person you're responding to is the type of person who sips on Coke wearing his Che Guevara shirt talking about how bad Capitalism is as he taps his foot in a pair of new Nike shoes.
He is adamantly sold on the idea that the Crusades and the Muslim Conquest were the same exact thing , denies the existence of the Muslim slave trade while incessantly mentioning the Atlantic slave trade, and that Muslims dindunuffin it was the Khans fault they are militant and have yet to reconcile their religion with science and come out of the dark ages as happened with Christianity.
>>57246338
Malaysian here.
If u try to goes against Islam, Like disagreeing with them, the average muslims will turn extremist within no time.
>>57254779
#NotAllNazis
>>57254641
I'm aware of the Mongolian hordes, the destruction of scholarly books in Islamic cultural centers etc.
They had 500 years to fix these problems though. Yet they are now the new Mongol horde. Case in point:
Saudi Arabia declaring Atheism to be terrorism:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html
Foreign invasions of Europe via immigration policy leading to rapes. Bombings. Terror. Radicalization:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQ94jFg_4A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksNvokBcKGw
If they take over Europe they will try to crucify scholars and (wo)men of learning, burn libraries etc.
>>57254628
Religion is something, that people can use to enable anything they want
Religion has been used to enable science (see monks dedicating their life to studying science, and copying, translating and preserving books, and then a lot of Muslim scholars, that did the exact same thing), but it has also been used to enable corruption, war, greed.
Religion is something that can be exploited easily, because of the way people follow them
>>57254841
This, I'll give you an example, a kid here was charged with sedition for literally clicking like on a Facebook page called "I stand with Israel", literally all the kid did was click like
>>57254816
>bad Capitalism is as he taps his foot in a pair of new Nike shoes.
I am a staunch Capitalism, edgelord. I do have Nikes, though I'm not wearing them at the moment. I also own Nike stock.
>A rich and diverse religion full of people from different ethnic groups, I do not believe the actions of few should represent an entire race and religion
Do you not even know your audience? Are you one of these dumbass reporters that write for sjw magazines?
We do not like "diversity" or any other of these liberal buzzwords. You fucked up within a few first lines.
No, to appeal to us you have to mention how much hate hate niggers/kikes/mudslimes in the first sentence. I am not even joking. I respond well to hatred of degeneracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
>>57254914
I don't dispute that, but do you truly believe that's how Islam is being used today?
>>57246338
shut up malaysian shitskin, islam is not a religion, it's a death cult and must be wiped off the face of the earth
>>57254841
So I've heard, it's pretty abysmal over there. And I'm supposed to go there by mid December. Care to update me when they see my brunette hair, pale skin and light blue eyes?
>>57247524
>when the Turks took the city, they unleashed an orgy of rape and murder of nuns, infants, and everyone in the city not capable of defending it the likes of which had never been seen before
You are confusing Turks with crusaders lad
>The Latin soldiery subjected the greatest city in Europe to an indescribable sack. For three days they murdered, raped, looted and destroyed on a scale which even the ancient Vandals and Goths would have found unbelievable. Constantinople had become a veritable museum of ancient and Byzantine art, an emporium of such incredible wealth that the Latins were astounded at the riches they found. Though the Venetians had an appreciation for the art which they discovered (they were themselves semi-Byzantines) and saved much of it, the French and others destroyed indiscriminately, halting to refresh themselves with wine, violation of nuns, and murder of Orthodox clerics. The Crusaders vented their hatred for the Greeks most spectacularly in the desecration of the greatest Church in Christendom. They smashed the silver iconostasis, the icons and the holy books of Hagia Sophia, and seated upon the patriarchal throne a whore who sang coarse songs as they drank wine from the Church's holy vessels. The estrangement of East and West, which had proceeded over the centuries, culminated in the horrible massacre that accompanied the conquest of Constantinople. The Greeks were convinced that even the Turks, had they taken the city, would not have been as cruel as the Latin Christians. The defeat of Byzantium, already in a state of decline, accelerated political degeneration so that the Byzantines eventually became an easy prey to the Turks. The Fourth Crusade and the crusading movement generally thus resulted, ultimately, in the victory of Islam, a result which was of course the exact opposite of its original intention.
>>57255477
>The Crusaders looted, terrorized, and vandalized Constantinople for three days, during which many ancient and medieval Roman and Greek works were either stolen or destroyed. The famous bronze horses from the Hippodrome were sent back to adorn the facade of St Mark's Basilica in Venice, where they remain. As well as being stolen, works of immeasurable value were destroyed merely for their material value. One of the most precious works to suffer such a fate was a large bronze statue of Hercules, created by the legendary Lysippos, court sculptor of no less than Alexander the Great. Like so many other priceless artworks made of bronze, the statue was melted down for its content by the Crusaders.
>The Library of Constantinople was destroyed. Despite their oaths and the threat of excommunication, the Crusaders systematically violated the city's holy sanctuaries, destroying or stealing all they could lay hands on; nothing was spared, not even the tombs of the emperors inside the St Apostles church. The civilian population of Constantinople were subject to the Crusaders' ruthless lust for spoils and glory; thousands of them were killed in cold blood. Women, even nuns, were raped by the Crusader army, which also sacked churches, monasteries and convents. The very altars of these churches were smashed and torn to pieces for their gold and marble by the warriors who had sworn to fight in service of the Pope without question. Although the Venetians engaged in looting too, their actions were far more restrained. Doge Dandolo still appeared to have far more control over his men. Rather than wantonly destroying all around like their comrades, the Venetians stole religious relics and works of art, which they would later take to Venice to adorn their own churches.
>>57254816
Precisely. But I'm glad to see that more of us are waking up to the hypocrisy.
>>57255460
Like most asians the women have wide ons for white men, visit the Chinese/Indian majority states and you'll be knee-deep in pussy
>>57252373
>I mean look at Andalus, it was Muslim and European, and it was like a post-Enlightenment, 16th centurty tier nation, in the 800s
No it wasn't:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/Norman_Berdichevsky/The_Myth_of_the_Golden_Age_of_Tolerance_in_Medieval_Muslim_Spain/
Note that a lot of the talk of Islam's "Spanish Golden Age" is based on a couple of sources exaggerating the size, scale and development of Cordoba. Archaeologically we've actually discovered more from Londinium, a city reputedly (according to secondary sources) 5-10 times smaller than Cordoba, whose archaeological profile is slim to non-existent - which in turn means the secondary source were lying.
>>57255521
What hypocrisy asshat?
>>57254993
^Here is where I stand on Capitalism.
I believe Islam and Socialists to be the two most destructive forces out there right now. They will remove capitalism and technological progress to push their own agendas.
I've been advocating for education and learning throughout this entire thread. In sciences preferably, not in social conditioning.
Please explain where I am anti-capitalist.
>>57254641
The funny thing about the so-called "Muslim golden age" is that the vast majority of scholars were Persian, not Arab. The Persians were descendants of the original indo-europeans and had a complex civilisation long before the arab goat herders banded together under the banner of Islam. The Arabs have always been useless. When they talk of their achievements they have to pretend that the (relatively insignificant) contributions of the recently conquered Persians (as well as Christians and Jews under their rule) can be attributed to Muslims in general.
>>57246338
Neatly prepared shitpost but it's nowhere near as natural and effortless as an Aussia one.
You lack grace.
>>57255477
And? Doukas records even more violent, savage things about 1453.
>>57255581
Yeah malaysians (and asians in general maybe) kinda have a thing for Ang mo whether it be positive or negative. I visit Ipoh and Miri quite a bit so I often get stares ESPECIALLY when I open my mouth but I don't mind
>>57255724
>The funny thing about the so-called "Muslim golden age" is that the vast majority of scholars were Persian
Or Nestorian Christians, or, in the case of Al-Andalus, Jews.
Arabs achieved very little, if anything, of note as an ethnic group intellectually speaking.
>>57255477
>>57255503
War is a piece of shit, but the point is, religion was not the reason those soldiers were shit. I wouldn't say it was because of the Catholic religion, that the Crusaders did what they did to Constantinople. The same way I wouldn't say (but a lot of people do) Islam was the reason these terrorists are doing what they did. Religion is just used as a tool, and even no religion still is associated with some of the worst acts against humanity. The torture and pillaging done by Communist forces, is proof that these barbaric acts doesn't eminate from any specific religion, it is really about the people and their culture.
If you are a corrupt, shit person, you will use religion, and twist it, to make people do the things you want them to do
>>57255763
Doukas wasn't even in Constantinople during the sack.
Anyway I didn't say Turks didn't sack it, what do you expect from bunch of nomadic horseriders that happened to destroy an Empire?
Believe me I hate Islam more than you do but my gripe is people here pretending Christians were saints. The opposite side of the same coin as the leftard universities talking about Christian violence while ignoring the Muslim ones.
>>57255845
*emanate
>>57246338
Fuck off, kike
>>57246338
>>57247289
>>57247394
>>57247591
>>57247918
>>57248206
>>57248637
>>57248865
>>57250032
>>57254012
Congratulations on taking the red pill.
>>57249308
>Barbary pirates who raided infidel merchants and coasts, traded slaves etc.
Like privateers funded by European powers
Please understand what the cultural Marxists are doing (youtube the term if unfamilar)
First day:
>No Muslims celebrated, RACIST liar!
First week:
>Ok it was dozens in New York, and dozens in New Jersey, and a few in Texas, not thousands!
One month later:
>Why don't Muslims have the same 1st Ammendment right to celebrate anything they want to, even 9/11?
This is how cultural marxism works, people. It's real. Your country is at stake. Wake up.
NYPost has deleted the original:
http://nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/32549.htm...
but it's still available on WaybackMachine: > https://archive.is/s3oio
CBS has tried to claim it has no stories in it's archives verifying Trump's statements, but the following clip was found in a private VHS collection recorded off TV broadcasts that week:
https://youtu.be/3auKMHkZJnQ
Dan Rather on Letterman (skip to 12:33)
http://www.visibility911.org/video-dan-rather-on-david-letterman-1-week-after-911/
Mayor Rudi Giuliani
https://youtu.be/hdk7snHe0kM
The media really IS this controlled, this Orwellian. Don't be manipulated by those trying to do you and your country great harm.
>>57255845
I thought this was common knowledge.
>>57256351
not here
>>57255909
Mate, understand I dislike all semitic religions, but the problem with Christianity isn't that it's "violent" - but that's it fucking kekked and promotes mass immigration, "turn the other cheek", etc.
>>57256290
See:
>>57254628
>Politics seeps into anything that broadly speaks to the population. See: radio, media, education, social-media, religion, broader internet.
Why is this a surprise? First the printed word, then radio, then television and now the internet.
All powerful tools in mass-propaganda.
>>57256351
>>57256419
>be in a death-cult driven on the belief that you have the right to kill people for not joining it
>people start to frown on this
>WOW, what about communism, look at them!!
>>57255909
Unlike Muslim countries, Christians actually came out of the dark ages.
>>57256442
That's not about Christianity in itself. That's about enlightenment era in Europe, where prosperity and welfare of the general population in western European countries consequentially led to a less religious and more secular society, which was later established firmly after Napoleonic era.
Promoting immigration of uneducated masses as well as not being selective or at the very least deporting any which doesn't want to conform to European standards of society has more to do with just Christianity. Not to mention the geopolitical reasons on why there are so many refugees can't be fixed with something like "muh kek christians" or "muh uncivilized muzzies".
Religion is the result, not the cause, of a society's upbringing.
>>57256594
Indeed. Largely thanks to the Italian city states who exported capitalism to the rest of Europe.
>>57256594
It is not as simple as that, Muslims in the area actually went more backwards than how they were before. You can find more """"progressive"""" views among Muslim officials of 500 to 1000 years ago than you can of Muslims today.
>>57255845
Islam is explicitly the motivation for Islamic terrorism. To say otherwise is simply retarded. Even The Atlantic have explained in depth how everything IS does is 100% justified by the Quran.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
>Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”
>In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war. This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.”
>>57246338
Low quality bait,I'm not falling for it
>>57246338
Dirty Muslim detected
>>57256783
You have to examine the reasons why those who follow this type of backwards belief do so in that area and how did they come to power.
It is extremely superficial to think religion is what guides people when people only believe because they want to and religion is a tool for control like no other.
>>57246338
Also,gtfo of /pol/ we don't want you here you filthy goat fucker and rapist
>>57256722
Perhaps this is true, but scholars were being persecuted back then too. See: Rhazes (Muhammad ibn Zakariyā Rāzī), a world-reknowned physician from Persia who was persecuted by Muslim scholars around 900AD for writing medical texts.
>>57256634
>Religion is the result, not the cause, of a society's upbringing.
True. As well as being a result of a societies past they adapt to the current dominant ideology.
Christianity now simply reflects the dominant cultural forces. Whereas in the past the Catholic church was the dominant cultural force and could direct the society, now secular society (left-wing ideology) is the dominant cultural force and the churches are required to adapt. Hence, in the name of multiculturalism, they enthusiastically support an invasion of people fundamentally opposed to them.
>>57256968
That's irrelevant to the point I'm making. We could likewise examine why it is that in South East Asia people cling to their combination of Buddhism and ancestor worship. However, that wouldn't help us answer why Muslims are compelled to act violently in literally every country with a sizeable Muslim population but Buddhists are not.
>>57257324
>That's irrelevant to the point I'm making. We could likewise examine why it is that in South East Asia people cling to their combination of Buddhism and ancestor worship. However, that wouldn't help us answer why Muslims are compelled to act violently in literally every country with a sizeable Muslim population but Buddhists are not.
Again geopolitic reasons. Back 1000 years ago Muslims thought Europeans were the violent barbarians. The area simply went backwards after 1700s in development. There are many reasons for the violence of middle-east, religion could be counted among one of them but to think it is the sole reason and the area would have been peaceful if not for the Islam provided they went through same historical developments is delusion.
I cannot claim to know how middle-east would be if the Islam was completely extinguished in crusades or it was made completely irrelevant in size and numbers by the Mongolians, why do you think you can? There are so many variants in this equation.
>>57256998
Brazil, home of beastiality and pedophilia.
>>57257531
>The area simply went backwards after 1700s in development.
What we call the Islamic World was in intellectual decline well, well before the 18th century my friend.
>I cannot claim to know how middle-east would be if the Islam was completely extinguished in crusades or it was made completely irrelevant in size and numbers by the Mongolians, why do you think you can? There are so many variants in this equation.
There are some things we can say with some certainty. For example, pre-Islamic Arabia DID give women more liberality than what came after, and that's a fact straight from the hadiths.
>>57257531
Stop skirting the issue. You know damn well that the Quran preaches intolerance and violence. Islamists move somewhere, colonize, spread violent teachings and try to outbreed the local population (while spreading said violent Quran-based teachings to their young children.)
Again, while this may have been rooted in geopolitical issues at inception, this is no longer based on geopolitical issues. It's based on a system of indoctrination perpetrated in a book which was written by a warlord centuries ago.
While it is true that there are (truly) moderate muslims- muslims who do not buy into Sharia etc. These are the individuals who have escaped the system and schooled in modern learning institutions. They also tend to be more intelligent than the average "moderate" muslim.
>>57254696
HAIL CHRIST CHAN
>>57257588
Bestiality? The mass rapes that muslims does aren't a fucking bestiality? Also,Mohammed is the one who married a fucking 6 years old Girl you pedo freaks.
Into the oven you go
>>57257798
PS: To put this into perspective, this is like Europeans canonizing Julius Caesar's annals from his Gaulish campaigns and calling a righteous war upon anyone who dared to draw a cartoon of him.
>>57257616
>What we call the Islamic World was in intellectual decline well, well before the 18th century my friend.
It is in 1700s that it became as obvious and as steep as it is.
>There are some things we can say with some certainty. For example, pre-Islamic Arabia DID give women more liberality than what came after, and that's a fact straight from the hadiths.
This is unrelated to the point I am making.
>>57257798
>Stop skirting the issue. You know damn well that the Quran preaches intolerance and violence. Islamists move somewhere, colonize, spread violent teachings and try to outbreed the local population (while spreading said violent Quran-based teachings to their young children.)
I do and it is unrelated. You should be looking for reasons WHY this belief system is still being practised today while religion was largely put to back stage in Europe, rather than why it is bad, everyone already knows that dingus.
>Again, while this may have been rooted in geopolitical issues at inception, this is no longer based on geopolitical issues.
If you can enlighten me on how the situation in middle-east is not based on geopolitical issues since the end of WW1, I would be very happy to concede my belief that faith is result of uncertainty and underdevelopment.
>>57257531
>There are many reasons for the violence of middle-east, religion could be counted among one of them but to think it is the sole reason and the area would have been peaceful if not for the Islam provided they went through same historical developments is delusion.
Actually, I'll concede this point to a degree. A large part of the problem in the middle east is due to the tribalism/collectivism of the people. Clans are formed according to kinship and kinship is reinforced by endogamous marriage, often between first cousins. This entrenches strong in-group out-group distinctions that inevitably lead to low trust societies and conflict.
>>57257970
>It is in 1700s that it became as obvious and as steep as it is.
No, this is untrue.
The Ottomans managed to capture a large amount of territory, but they never really had a significant influence on anything scientific, technical or intellectual beyond some Koranic hair-splitting. Their backwardness was always obvious, they were awful civil administrators too which is why I find it amazing that Turks actually believe the subject peoples of the Empire owed them loyalty in the first place. Not even insulting you here, it's just astonishing some Turks believe the dhimmi class could have anything BUT contempt for them.
>This is unrelated to the point I am making.
Well we know that Islam went backwards in some respects from what came before, that, to me, is extremely relevant.
>>57252225
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rF3wXGqkxQ
>>57258155
>The Ottomans managed to capture a large amount of territory, but they never really had a significant influence on anything scientific, technical or intellectual beyond some Koranic hair-splitting.
This is not true there have been Sultans that promoted arts and sciences, not only that they directly funded guilds based on arts and sciences. On top of this, Sultans generally always rewarded skill, if you were a skilled engineer, architect or a shipmaker, you could easily be hired by Ottomans regardless of your background. That's why there have been many Italian, Hungarian and other European converts under Ottoman employment. The main reason Ottomans stagnated was because of their backwards military tradition and corruption awakened after loss of trade monopoly they once had.
I hate Ottomans and I would be happier if it never existed, please don't make me defend them.
>Well we know that Islam went backwards in some respects from what came before, that, to me, is extremely relevant.
So did all Abrahamic religions, again unrelated to why Europe was able to let go of these aspects and only embrace the cultural parts while Muslims failed to do so.
>>57246338
fuck off shitskin nigger
>>57257970
>I do and it is unrelated.
Good. I'm glad we're in agreement here.
>You should be looking for reasons WHY this belief system is still being practised today while religion was largely put to back stage in Europe, rather than why it is bad,
>everyone already knows that dingus.
Well apparently not (see OP).
The two regions diverged based on technological development borne by education in the right sorts of things. One region had a political system which killed dissent and did not permit educational progress, the other enabled it.
It is a fact that Capitalism is a superior economic system to everything that came before it, or since. It is not a perfect system, by any stretch of the imagination, but it is superior.
>If you can enlighten me on how the situation in middle-east is not based on geopolitical issues since the end of WW1, I would be very happy to concede my belief that faith is result of uncertainty and underdevelopment.
You make a point here to an extent. Capital flows have something to do with this. Investment will always seek out the "best deal" regardless of politics. And by best deal I mean the best return for the initial investment.
Evidently if your population are relatively unproductive, your education system is slipping in relative effectiveness and politics is getting in the way of scientific pursuit, it will flee to somewhere else. Like Europe.
>>57257970
>You should be looking for reasons WHY this belief system is still being practised today while religion was largely put to back stage in Europe
One reason I've come across is that since the Quran is believed to be the literal word of god, it is much less open to interpretation, and anyone who does try to de-emphasise parts that conflict with modernity is labelled a blasphemer. On the other hand, the Bible is a collection of accounts from various authors, which allows for different parts to be emphasised.
>If you can enlighten me on how the situation in middle-east is not based on geopolitical issues since the end of WW1
No one who is discussing Islam in good faith can deny that our elites in the West have fuelled Islamic fundamentalism. Iran would not be an Islamic state if not for the CIA, and numerous other Arab states had progressive movements that were opposed by the USA because of their relationship, however tenuous, with the USSR.
We have to acknowledge that our elites have fucked over the Muslim world and in the process they've fucked us over as well. All good /pol/acks know that the (((neocohens))) and (((internationalists))) don't represent us or our interests.
>>57257970
Also: while external influences CAN be a factor in a region's decline (perhaps even to a large degree), the blame for the decline ultimately has to lie with the individuals within that region. The people who make up the collective society.
Until Islam reforms itself from within and joins the rest of the developed world in pursuing educational excellence/technological progress they will be nothing more than a destructive plague of locusts.
>>57258529
>One region had a political system which killed dissent and did not permit educational progress, the other enabled it.
More like one region realized pursuit of knowledge and philosophy was more important than the blind submission to God (enlightenment) and other region thought the reason why they weren't as "glorious" as they once were because they failed in faith to their god and perverted Islam (Wahhabism).
There was pursuit of knowledge and appreciation of this pursuit, there is even a hadith about this and how Persians would attain learning even if it was suspended by heavens.
>Evidently if your population are relatively unproductive, your education system is slipping in relative effectiveness and politics is getting in the way of scientific pursuit, it will flee to somewhere else. Like Europe.
Yes and those reasons are caused by geopolitic challenges faced before. The unfortunate deal in all of this is the fact Wahhabism was allowed to have control over the richest regions of Arabian Peninsula thanks to outside intervention.
>>57246338
>New Zealand growing up and shitposting like his big brother
This is so cute
>>57258681
>One reason I've come across is that since the Quran is believed to be the literal word of god, it is much less open to interpretation, and anyone who does try to de-emphasise parts that conflict with modernity is labelled a blaspheme
Salafist beliefs. See Islamic theology and jurisprudence.
>We have to acknowledge that our elites have fucked over the Muslim world and in the process they've fucked us over as well.
Exactly, Islam is a dangerous ideology but the fault here is in allowing it to flourish directly and indirectly.
>>57258804
> the blame for the decline ultimately has to lie with the individuals within that region. The people who make up the collective society.
I do not deny this but it is not that easy is it to reform a society when your country is completely wartorn and there is no hope for welfare let alone education? People in desperation turn to religion when they have nothing left.
>>57258326
>This is not true there have been Sultans that promoted arts and sciences,
Are you seriously going to claim the Ottomans were more advanced than Europeans?
Your original firearms foundry was founded by a bloody Hungarian of all people. Venice was producing far more advanced war galleys than you as far back as the 15th century.
The Ottoman Empire made no significant advancement to science, industry or technology. Deal with it.
>So did all Abrahamic religions, again unrelated to why Europe was able to let go of these aspects and only embrace the cultural parts while Muslims failed to do so.
Because we are Indo-Europeans and they are Semites. It is in their blood to be hardcore monotheistic lunatics, it is in our blood to be pagan-bros. Hence all the pagan elements in Christianity and how it had to be dressed up in pagan and greek forms for Europeans to actually take to it in the first place.
>>57259118
>Are you seriously going to claim the Ottomans were more advanced than Europeans?
At what in which period?
>Your original firearms foundry was founded by a bloody Hungarian of all people.
Not true, Janissaries had muskets and Ottos had cannons way before conquest of Constantinople in which Orban was hired.
>The Ottoman Empire made no significant advancement to science, industry or technology. Deal with it.
Unrelated to what you have said before.
Again, I told you I hate Ottomans, don't make me defend it by being completely wrong. Ottoman empire is shit but not for these false reasons you claim.
>Because we are Indo-Europeans and they are Semites. It is in their blood to be hardcore monotheistic lunatics, it is in our blood to be pagan-bros.
Confirmed retard.
Hint: Arabs were pagans and the Arabia stayed pagan long after Christian took a hold in Europe.
>>57259287
>At what in which period?
At any point from the foundation of the Osman Dynasty?
>Not true, Janissaries had muskets and Ottos had cannons way before conquest of Constantinople in which Orban was hired.
And? Europe had a significant firearms industry as far back as the 13th century.
>Hint: Arabs were pagans and the Arabia stayed pagan long after Christian took a hold in Europe.
Their brand of paganism was more brutal.
>>57259042
>I do not deny this but it is not that easy is it to reform a society when your country is completely wartorn and there is no hope for welfare let alone education? People in desperation turn to religion when they have nothing left.
Doing something worthwhile is never easy. Humans also have a tendency to double down on stupid.
See: Europe after WW1. Greece's problems perpetrated by the Euro Parliament (despite knowing perfectly well that the same sorts of policies lead to Germany starting WW2.)
Implementation of the Euro, despite the failings of the classical gold standard.
Everyone being Socialist and wanting more hand-outs despite the bankruptcy of the Government AND the failings of communism.
Lots of Euros on this board saying they will move away rather than fight back to push out Islam. (This is the worst one to me. Where do these Euros expect to go that will accommodate them?)
People get paralyzed with fear, and turn to concrete "solutions" which make problems worse. Still. It is up to intelligent and capable individuals to fight (and die for) their prosperity, when necessary. Otherwise they will have none.
Muslims here got triggered by the sight of a cross on a church and literally formed a mob demanding it be taken down, AND IT WAS.
>>57248321
You should ditch that religion.
>>57247775
Moses led a highly skilled Mercenary company, do history.
>>57259442
>At any point from the foundation of the Osman Dynasty?
They have been technologically and medicinally more advanced than a fair bit of Europe in their earlier period.
>And? Europe had a significant firearms industry as far back as the 13th century.
Unrelated again, why are you moving goal posts. You said your original firearms foundry was founded by Hungarians, which is wrong.
Hint: British were buying gunpowder from Ottomans because it was better in quality.
>Their brand of paganism was more brutal.
Moving goal posts again, what you said was wrong.
Not gonna respond to this any further, no point.
>>57259472
>Doing something worthwhile is never easy. Humans also have a tendency to double down on stupid.
I know, Syrians should stay and fight instead of running away but it is not an easy situation, not like how it has been a century ago.
It is hard to stay and fight when all you have is lost weapons and while 4 different bigger powers are bombarding the country on a daily basis because of proxy wars they are running on your soil.
>People get paralyzed with fear, and turn to concrete "solutions" which make problems worse. Still. It is up to intelligent and capable individuals to fight (and die for) their prosperity, when necessary. Otherwise they will have none.
I agree but extreme times lead people to extreme measures and extreme measures are often retarded.
>>57259697
>They have been technologically and medicinally more advanced than a fair bit of Europe in their earlier period.
Which parts of Europe?
What periods?
And in what scientific and engineering disciplines?
>Hint: British were buying gunpowder from Ottomans because it was better in quality.
Prove it.
>Moving goal posts again, what you said was wrong.
No, what I said was right. There is no way Europeans would have taken to a religion as iconoclastic and binary in its monotheism as Islam.
>>57259800
>I know, Syrians should stay and fight instead of running away but it is not an easy situation, not like how it has been a century ago.
Yes, this one is especially hilarious. All the Euros who are screaming out "Muh Europa! I will leave" are exactly the same as the foreign invaders that they proclaim to hate.
>I agree but extreme times lead people to extreme measures and extreme measures are often retarded.
Extreme measures and smart measures are not mutually exclusive. Often they do not overlap, but they can, in some circumstances. Ultimately intelligent solutions to problems are needed. That's the core issue.
>>57259800
Reminder that Saudi has several beautiful fully furnished air conditioned asylem centers for Syrian refugees that are what?
Thats right t*rkanon they are completely empty.
>>57259800
They're not interested in "safety". They're interested in gaining residency over here, and unfortunately our governments, in their infinite wisdom, provide anyone who washes up on our shores with some sort of "route to citizenship", even if they're a fucking illegal....
>uses a picture of a CHRISTIAN CHURCH, the Hagia Sofia, stolen by Moozlems and converted into a mosque as evidence that kebabs are great
Sorry kebabs, but "you didn't build that!". The last vestiges of the Roman Empire made it, and one day it will be a Christian cathedral once more after the Neo-Crusades have occured.
>>57260012
Saudi and Qatar are a large part of the problem. They are exporting their Wahhabist shit all over the world.
What's the difference between ISIS' application of Islamic law and Saudi? Oh, right. There is none.
>>57260173
The time is near anon, all denominations of Christ shall descend upon Thrace and liberate her from muslim rule... then we need to find Christians to occupy the land as all of the Christian Greeks in Thrace were either made into sex slaves or converted into the Janissaries. Fucking Turks must pay for what they have always done to young Christian boys.
I don't normally believe in generational guilt, but the turks MUST pay, my Ancestors demand this of me!
>Hagia Sophia
