>SU-24 warned 10 times in 5 minutes not enter turkish airspace
>Russian plane enters airspace
>In Turkish airspace for 1.15 miles for a total of 17 seconds
Pic related, full document
>>56614594
bump
>>56614594
pumb
17 seconds? da faq am i reading
>>56615794
total time spent in turkish air space 17 seconds
>>56615794
US pilots heard warning too
>>56614594
>LEAKED TURKEY DOCUMENT TO UN
literally 5 minutes on word
>17 seconds in Turkish air space
>50 warnings per half second
This is done retarded logic
>>56616440
the jet pilots were warned 10 times over a timewindow of 5 minutes.
>>56616440
>>56616426
They sent the warning before they entered turkish soil
>>56616602
And Turkey owns Syrian Air space now? every time Turksmell enters Cyprus Airspace or Greek Airspace they just blow it the fuck out of the sky?
Fuck i hope so it will teach those dogs.
>Be russian
>Get shoot
>>56616778
bumping with nato conference
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/events_67375.htm
>>56614594
>Mr. Ban Ki-moon
Fuck off faggot.
>>56618903
That's his name...
>>56619269
NATO is a scam. Do I have to go to war with Russia if they attack Turkey tomorrow? Lol no. Fuck you guys come fight for Turkey yourselves if you want. I doubt any real Americans want that too
>>56620250
>greece talking about scams
PAY DENBTS
>>56616862
No but it makes sense. If you see Russian jets nearing your space on the radar you warn them.
>>56614594
TURKEY HAS MASSIVELY BREACHED NATO ROE FOR INTERCEPTION OF ANY AIRCRAFT.
YOU MUST VISUALLY INTERCEPT THE AIRCRAFT AND HAVE VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE PILOT
IF THE AIRCRAFT IS ON AN EXIT COURSE OF AN EXTREMELY NARROW BAND OF AIRSPACE, INTERCEPTION IS UNCALLED FOR
AT THE HALFWAY POINT, AN AIRCRAFT ENCROACHING UPON AIRSPACE IF ON AN EXIT COURSE, HAS COMPLIED WITH WARNINGS AND ORDERS AND CANNOT BE FIRED UPON
THE MINUTE THE AIRCRAFT IS OUT OF YOUR AIRSPACE, IT CANNOT BE FIRED UPON AND YOU MUST TURN AROUND AND GO HOME
IF YOU KNOW THE PURPOSE OF AN AIRCRAFT OPERATING CLOSE TO THE BORDER, ACCIDENTAL ENCROACHMENT IS ALLOWED AND NECESSITATES NO SCRAMBLE OR INTERCEPTION, UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT IS ON A PATH INTO YOUR COUNTRY WITH NO DEFINED EXIT POINT. IF THE AIRCRAFT IS MILITARY AND CLEARLY ARMED, AN AIRBORNE SENTRY CONSISTING OF AN INTERCEPTION SQUADRON IS ENCOURAGED TO FLY A HOLDING PATTERN ALONG THE BORDER FOR QUICK TURNAROUND. (NOTE, THAT DOESNT HAVE SHOOTDOWN OR EVEN RADAR LOCK ANYWHERE IN THE DEFINITION OF TURN AROUND)
DO NOT FIRE UPON AN AIRCRAFT THAT IS LEAVING OR HAS LEFT AIRSPACE. IT IS AN ACT OF WAR THAT BARS YOU FROM INCITING ARTICLE 5, AS NATO IS A DEFENSIVE MILITARY ORGANIZATION AND ARTICLE 5 ONLY COVERS A NATION ATTACKING A NATO COUNTRY WITHOUT DIRECT PROVOCATION OF THAT COUNTRY, OR AN OBJECTIVE ACT OF WAR AGAINST YOUR NOW PRESENT AGGRESSOR.
>tldr, fuck the Turks
Cry about it mehmet when we kick you out of NATO. They've been in deep shit anyway from the Kurdish bombings and directly aiding terrorists. They attempted to bomb a delta force detachment with the Kurds, but a strike eagle was on station and burned to intercept.
NATO is a defensive organization, not an organization used to bully larger countries behind allies. The airbase is almost in warning range of Turkish airspace. Have fun without NATO.
http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_archives/20121128_19530312_NU_SHAPE-282-53_Rules_for_Engagement_of_Unidentifie.pdf
They fucked up
>>56616862
greeks and cypruses aren't engaged in military actions near turkish borders
6 Gorillan warnings
>>56621171
Turkey and Cyprus are literally at war
>>56616347
Of course they did. Ebil Russians are to blame.
>>56621120
>Cry about it mehmet when we kick you out of NATO.
russia will be right there to let turkey cry into its arms and then allow it into the eurasian union
good job, you've just dumped a massive asset into russians hands on a golden platter
>>56621269
> engaged in military actions
>>56621503
>war
>not a military action
>>56621171
>cypruses
It's Cypriots. Educate yourself.
>>56621171
>turkey annexes half of Cyprus
>they a good boy din du nuffin
Maybe the Turks are right you all just lack a pair of balls.
>>56621654
>theoretical war
"the military actions were real in my mind"
- you
>Get warned 10 times
>Enter anyway
DINDU NUFFIN
>>56620250
I support Turkey's right to get BTFO by Russia.
>>56621741
>he doesn't know about corsica
>>56614594
I'm happy because this will make impossible for Turkey to join European Union forever.
>>56621911
>not wanting to get out of the EU
please italy
>>56621885
Corsica? on the OTHER SIDE of the Mediterranean.
Maybe Turks should shoot down your planes and watch you cry like a spoiled whore.
>>56616778
they only entered turkish soil after they'd been shot down
>>56621998
>thinking Bamacko Obamako will let us git out
Sanchez pls
>>56621120
>TURKEY HAS MASSIVELY BREACHED NATO ROE FOR INTERCEPTION OF ANY AIRCRAFT.
>>56616440
Literally 0 reading comprehension
>>56621120
>YOU MUST VISUALLY INTERCEPT THE AIRCRAFT AND HAVE VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE PILOT
What if it's a drone?
Do you just give up and fly back to base?
>>56616778
And?
It still doesn't matter. 17 seconds with a clear exit course, a reason to be near the border which allows incidental encroachment, and compliance with warnings when it made a B line to the edge of the airspace, has nothing to do with the shoot down.
They are warned not to cross, but nothing in the interception doctrine at even the most liberal of definitions clears turkey to fire upon the russian aircraft at any point unless the turks were fired upon first.
If you are not at war with a country, you do not fucking do that ever.
There was no intercept and visual warning in case of radio failure, they communicated through a standard warning with no confirmation that the border had been reached, the turks knew that the AO was close to the border and knew with absolute certainty that it is non hostile and thus no shoot down can ever be authorized unless every method to avoid it has been taken and the jet is flying towards a major city or base, and on top of all of that
The missile was fired at nearly beyond visual range after the russian aircraft had left turkish airspace. The russian aircraft moving quickly towards the nearest exit through turkish airspace after the half way point is compliance with the order to leave and cannot be engaged in any form or even locked onto.
But the firing after the aircraft was out of airspace by a turkish plane who was at best 5 miles away from visual contact range which is required to have been reached before any shootdown can ever be justified, much less authorized.
This is an act of war with no way to justify it.
Did they warn them with a megaphone as they parachuted down?
"RUSKIE INVADERS THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING! STOP YOUR DESCENT OR ALLAHU WILL BE A ACKBARRED. WE REPEAT, STOP YOUR DESCENT!" *gunfire*
>>56621120
this
throw t*rkey of of NATO now
>>56622208
I guess it's fine to shoot down drones exactly because they are unmanned. Could be wrong.
These guys do not even hide it.
When the us or russians intervene somewhere, we can at least have a conversation here but not with these progressive islamist.
>>56621120
can we see official NATO resources which contain these directives?
I mean they do sound like common sense but I want to see Turkey's death warrant in official writing.
>>56622149
my bad. I was born at Ramstein AFB and mothers family were all pilots.
My uncle ran interception out of alaska.
>>56622208
The drone will not respond because it has no pilot. If the heading is not towards a reasonably close or the nearest exit, you can shoot it down.
You'll see that every time this happens there is at least a visual confirmation that it is a drone. The russian plane vs the georgian drone for example.
>>56616862
I sure as fuck wish they'd blow the slimy cunts out of the sky whenever they do it.
Fucking scum is siding with ISIS, what else do you need to know about them?
>>56622328
kek
I hope Putin destroys all the muslims including t*rkey and saudi arabia.
And u.s. should overthrow their niggerish government and help Russia protect the civilized world from animals.
>>56621120
Preach it, my triqqa!
FUCK TURKEY
>>56622520
its litterally at the bottom of his post
>my country is awsome
>somehow its not the only thing I need
>>56621120
>BREACHED NATO ROE FOR INTERCEPTION OF ANY AIRCRAFT
>FOLLOWING INTERNETIONAL RULES
>>56621815
>shooting down jets AFTER they have already left your airspace
>chasing after the defenseless pilots, crossing the border to another country, and shooting at said pilots while they parachute down
>literally killing someone because they rightfully ignored your unjustified threats
DINDU NUFFIN
>>56622659
The USA will do no such thing. It's a nation of kuks run by and for kikes. The West is dead. The slavic nations will be the only ones left to fight the Islamic hordes
>>56622356
>throw t*rkey of of NATO now
>implying this would be bad for turkey
>anyway UN is always "urr durr you must be un", they kept pol pot goverment on UN for god sake, the state of a president with glasses, university degree and that speak other language, that say smart people are making the country worse and should be killed (having glasses, going to university and talking other languages are considered being smart)
>>56614594
IS THIS SHIT REAL NIGGER?
>nationality of which are unknown
>Not visually identifying aircraft before shooting them down.
>Dun goofing this hard.
This shit was planned, basically.
I wonder how much Washington had to do with it.
>>56617711
UHH
H
H
>>56623271
R A R E F L A G
A
R
E
F
L
A
G
>>56621481
>russia immediately forgiving turkey if turkey is kicked out
fuck off turk. The russians despise the turks due to the terrorist funding they gave to the chechens.
They block the Bosporus strait and encroach on the airspace of their bordering countries including russia all the time.
Russia will not be quick to forgive the turks for what happened.
Also, how the fuck is turkey a massive asset to anybody? They've been getting in the way of everything NATO and the EU has ever done, lets isis recruits over the border while funding them, throws refugees to europe, and continues to throw shitfits and fuck with their neighbors as well as continue to commit war crimes on cyprus which they invaded and laid claim to because turks.
They were useful in the cold war because they could block the strait in case of WW3 and bottleneck the russian black sea fleet.
They had no use beyond that. Now they're becoming even more of a problem and still their only exports are shitfits, terrorism, cockroaches, and possibly blocking the russian navy if one of the baby boomer presidents finally lose it and try to nuke everything.
Its not the cold war, and they are nothing but a drain on NATO. Not to mention they will not stop fucking with Greece which is a NATO member.
>>56623373
they thought it was ISIS SU-24
Based Turkey.
Russia wont try this shit again
>>56623247
>NATO is the UN
Are you drunk huebro?
>>56616347
Reminder: Jennifer Griffin is a Neocon shill with a Jewish husband who used to work for the Jerusalem Post.
She may even be a Jewish convert herself, but can't verify.
>>56621998
European Union is the thousand years Reich, deal with it. But at least we won't have turkish shitheads among
>>56623557
Fuck off Sweden
I can't believe they actually gave you wifi in your kekshed.
>>56623557
fucking muhammed posting from asylboende
>>56623443
Ol' George Washington planned it all, my friend.
REMINDER
>this is the flightpath kebab is claiming.
>russia says they can prove it's wrong.
>either way, kebab fucked up and breached ROE
It's interesting that they claim they shot at the downed aircraft precisely during the 17 seconds it was inside Turkish territory.
>>56623509
>implying sandniggers can actually fly planes
>>56619269
>Mr. Ban Ki-moon
>That's his name...
You aren't fooling anyone asshole.
>>56623881
that's the joke senpai
>>56614594
>we just happened to have 2 F-16s able to respond to a supposed threat that lasted 17 seconds
Yeah right. They were planning this.
>>56622947
>international
International rules are stupid, but god save your ass if you think that the breaking of NATO ROE and NATO rules will incite anything good.
>>56623475
I TRIED TO WRITE neutral flag like that but i got tagged for spam ... wtf
>>56623557
>Russia wont try this shit again
Definitely, next time it will send bombers with fighters escort which will fire missiles at incoming turksmell aircrafts without warning.
on this radar-map which showed its route you could see them doing a sharp turn south at a point but then flying over that last piece of turkish territory.
Its a Su-24, those things are on their way out till 2020. They probably had no way to know their exact position beyond a radius of 20 miles.
>>56624038
airspace violations should be met with AA fire every time tbqh
>>56624084
>Definitely, next time it will send bombers with fighters escort which will fire missiles at incoming turksmell aircrafts without warning.
>Things that will never happen
Kick these dirty camel fuckers out of NATO, bar them from the EU.
Dirty terrorist scum, fuck Muslims.
I hope Russia retaliates and nobody will help the scum Turks.
Dissolve the terrorist state and give it to the Kurds and Greeks who it rightfully belongs to.
>>56614594
Suddenly all those migrants getting in through Turkey and the Turkish army leaking pictures to the press of Greek coastguards roughing up migrants makes a lot more sense.
>>56622820
Ahh so it is.. sorry I was excited.. but this is dated 1953... any chance they have been updated and no longer contain these rules?
I would see no reason why they would be changed but if they have not the wording clearly says Turkey committed an act of War and I can honestly hope Russia shoves this in Obimbo's face and takes out some Turkish kebab
>>56623941
Russia violates other countries airspace ALL THE TIME. It's to see how fast that country can scramble jets. It's like a game. In this instance, Turkey said they game is over.
>>56623502
>fuck off turk. The russians despise the turks due to the terrorist funding they gave to the chechens.
lol, you are projecting your personal hatred for the t*rks into the world game of politics
>Russia will not be quick to forgive the turks for what happened.
when i say russia i say the russian government
you're too retarded to understand that though, it's okay
maybe i should start blaming all american citizen for the useless invasion of irak and the complete destabilization of the middle east, as trump put it in clear words in his speeches
>>56624168
they use civilian GPS on these, it's all russia's fault as far as i am concerned
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-russian-attack-jets-use-walmart-grade-gps-systems-1703048443
>>56624244
we sold billions in arms to a terrorist state, saudi arabia
don't talk shit frogfriend
>>56624047
If the post goes on for too long vertically it flags it for spam.
It's to prevent people from making a post that is just something like
.
.
.
and filling the thread with a post/posts that take 30 seconds to scroll through
>>56624038
why is wikileaks all over this?
Oh, its a chance to be anti-NATO, riiiight.
>>56624168
whoa the whole thing is unreasonable but i didnt think of that
>>56621120
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees (i hope you are not loying to me)
>#KickThemOut
>#NoWarWithRussia
>#TurkeyStinks
Remember, turks made the first crusade happen.
>>56614594
>>56624394
i doubt a civilian GPS is very precise at 600km/h
>>56624394
Selling arms to a customer is not the same as supporting terrorists, undermining your allies in the region, and trafficking economic migrants in order to exact demographic Jihad.
REMOVE KEBAB remove kebab
you are worst turk. you are the turk idiot you are the turk smell. return to croatioa. to our croatia cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,bosnia we will never forgeve you. cetnik rascal FUck but fuck asshole turk stink bosnia sqhipere shqipare..turk genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead turk..ahahahahahBOSNIA WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget ww2 .albiania we kill the king , albania return to your precious mongolia….hahahahaha idiot turk and bosnian smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE KEBAB FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. russia+usa+croatia+slovak=kill bosnia…you will ww2/ tupac alive in serbia, tupac making album of serbia . fast rap tupac serbia. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink turk… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt
tupac alive numbr one #1 in serbia ….fuck the croatia ,..FUCKk ashol turks no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur flag and contry. 2pac aliv and real strong wizard kill all the turk farm aminal with rap magic now we the serba rule .ape of the zoo presidant georg bush fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and bosnia wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. serbia greattst countrey
>>56624517
>max speed 2300 km/h
ahahaha, for a minute in a dive maybe.
>>56624282
Regardless if that document is current, it is pretty much the standard roe, even civilian pilots are made familiar with it so they don't get shot down for accidental incursions which happen all the time.
>>56624517
SU 24 max speed is 1315 km/h
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24
at high altitude 1600
>>56621120
Are you sure that document from 1953 is still valid?
>>56624714
>Selling arms to a customer
fuck off faggot, accept the fact that saudi arabia is 100% terrorist state, they fund, export, train and teach extremism and terrorists across the globe
we sell billions in arms to a terrorist state
saudi arabia is NOT an ally
>17 seconds
my fucking sides. Time to nuke the entire middle east
>>56624435
Are you not anti-NATO? Are you an anti-white?
Do you support the military occupation of your nation by The American?
>>56614594
bump
>>56624796
im pretty sure it can fly at 400km/h no problem, its a BOMBER! With variable sweep-wings ffs!
A fucking mig-21 can fly at 400 km/h without stalling and that thing has tiny delta-wings.
* Russians cross the border
* Turkey tells Russians not to cross the border
* Russians cross the border
* Turkey shoots down the Russians
Now, up to that point it wasn't too bad, buuuuut
* Turkmen rebels allied with Turkey shoot Russian pilots while parachuting to safety
Yeah, fuck that shit. Kick those subhuman Turks out of NATO. This ain't worth the Bosporus.
>>56623676
"Thousand year Reich" The EU will be a collapsed Islamic shithole by 2050. Enjoy your kebab
>>56624394
>Born in Ramstein AFB in germany
>most of my family were NATO pilots with my uncle being specifically based for interception
>im retarded
arab pls. I gave you every reason the turks have fucked up and why everything that happens is completely justified if the russians act in reprisal. Even a NATO ROE link.
Their only export is holding the strait. The russian government would not want to deal with a legitimate drain on resources that is the turks.
This act depending on our reaction will bring the west and russia close together finally, otherwise literally nothing will happen.
Russia has nothing to offer the turks, china would be the better choice to snuggle up against, as the russians cannot fund their idiocy and military, plus russia will be fucking pissed until putin dies.
>>56624445
Read the link in that post. It has everything you need to know about the ROE breach, and this was when the cold war was hot.
The modern version retains everything but is even more strict against engagement.
>>56624765
So why is Obongo backing Turley if they were in fact in violation of NATO ROE?
God dam this bitch is just determined to dig us into a deeper shithole every chance he gets..
>>56625014
im anti turkey, why the fuck would i be anti-american? Im not some leftist faggot!
>>56624796
german wiki says 2300km/h for some reason
>>56624900
How does that excuse Turkey?
As far as I'm concerned
R E M O V E K E B A B
E
M
O
V
E
K
E
B
A
B
>>56625166
Because he supports ISIS.
>>56625077
i found the source wikileaks used
In early Su-24 ("Fencer A" according to NATO) aircraft these intakes had variable ramps, allowing a maximum speed of 2,320 km/h (1,440 mph), Mach 2.18, at altitude and a ceiling of 17,500 m (57,400 ft).
the one shot down is not this version and wasnt flying at this altitude
>>56625178
Why the fuck would you be anti-american?
Oh I don't know.. Maybe.. Because they've been militarily occupying your country, creating conflict in the middle east, and flooding Europe with racial foreigners?
It's the leftists in your country who are pro-american, have you already forgotten the leftist protesters against nationalists with the signs saying: ''We need you in Dresden again, Uncle Sam!''?
>>56614594
t = S / V, t(min) = S / V(max) и t(max) = S / V(min), тaк кaк зaвиcимocть oбpaтнaя.
t(min) = 4km / 800km/h,
t(min) = 0,005h = 18sec.
Aнaлoгичнo,
t(max) = 4km / 400km/h,
t(max) = 0,01h = 36sec.
Answer: 18 <= t <= 36, but the time could be less as the maximum claimed speed SU-24, 1200km / h.
Conclusion: On the rise of the Turkish F-16 to 10-fold notice to launch missiles - were from 18 to 36 seconds, especially after 2 kilometers, Su-24 began to move towards the exit from Turkish airspace In other words, subject to the requirements of border troops in Turkey. It turns SU-24 is not submitted from 9 to 18 seconds. And even less. During this time it is impossible to intercept the plane 10 times to warn him and release him on the rocket.
>>56625111
>Russia has nothing to offer the turks,
are you fucking crazy, russia has gas, everyone want gas, and america doesn't want europe to buy gas from russia
turkey has interest in russia with the gas alone
>>56625077
SU24 is very susceptible to stalling at or even around stall speed.
>>56625405
they warned them before
ffs why dont people read the thread first
>>56625090
>* Turkmen rebels allied with Turkey shoot Russian pilots while parachuting to safety
That is a 4chan meme retard
>>56625262
are you arguing with someone else while you talk to me? when did i say it excuses anything, you fucking paranoid faggot?
i'm providing you with factual information, why would it fucking conflict with another piece of factual information unrelated to it? my point is that you can't talk shit about turkey when france is doing worse, much worse, selling weapons to fucking saudi arabia of all arab countries, the worst of all arab countries, even worse than pakistan
>>56624875
Not only is it still valid but it has a less strict ROE when an aircraft could be fired upon.
Remember this was during the korean war end and wars like that were going in the direction where it seemed they would be common.
Finland looked to fall so a socialist government and a reunification war between East and West Germany seemed all but lacking an official declaration at that point.
So even under the most liberal ROE in the history of NATO, turkey would be completely in the wrong and would still have committed an unprovoked act of war that nullifies article 5.
The modern version is far more strict and firing upon a non compliant aircraft who is showing no hostilities, is a decision of the department of defense as a direct order.
>>56625320
im pretty sure its leftists who are flooding my country.
>>56625526
Warned them for flying in perfectly legal air space.
What?
>>56625526
fuck off ergoran's dog
>>56625526
Under NATO Rules of Engagement the flight path these place were on did not constitute enough of a threat to justify firing and would rather be an "act of war"
they were clearly on a course to very quickly exit your airspace and at most an escort would have been warranted.. they were not flying into your country with no obvious exit point.. exactly the opposite they had a very clear and soon exit point and so you have breached NATO ROE and committed an act of war against Russia.
You're on your own.
"Who keeps doing that?"
>>56622296
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_incident
>court marshaled for not defending the ship
>multiple warnings
>not at war
>only seconds of note that they were locked onto
I imagine someones head (probably literally) was on the line on the decision and chose himself over everyone else.
Why cant Russia keep its airplane out of other countries airspace? Are their pilots so shitty or is this somekinda test?
>>56624047
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ws_APXilE
>>56621120
You are the stupidest fucker I've seen on 4chan in a long time.
>>56625625
>my point is that you can't talk shit about turkey when france is doing worse, much worse
No.
Turkey:
-finances terrorism
-funds and arms ISIS
-allows ISIS recruits to travel from and into Europe
-attempts to genocide Armenians and Kurds
-ferries Muslim migrants into Europe
-uses terrorism for political purposes
-builds and finances Wahhabi mosques in Europe
-massive political and financial corruption
vs
France:
-sells weapons and vehicles to a regional ally in which individual members of the royal family may or may not have ties to international terrorism
Terrorism is not the policy of Saudi Arabia's government, it is the policy of powerful individuals therein, terrorism is absolutely the policy of the elected government of Turkey.
>>56623836
russia claims, but does not prove. where as, turkey does prove.
i was actually at first terrified that our fighters fucked up big time because russians claimed that their jets "didnt violate the airspace at all" but after i saw the radar pics. etc. i felt like "what a pussy putin is". at least accept the fact that you violated airspace.
>>56624232
Actually Russia is literally doing that now, check the news
>>56625107
Obviously is the kike version of the thousand years Reich, don't be such a basic Bitch you protestant inbred
>>56624304
All countries do that, but no one responds in this manner and this rapidly. The Turks wanted this outcome. It is clear that they support ISIS and are Europe's enemy.
>>56616440
You are a retard
Kek
>>56623621
So? There is literally nothing wrong with being Jewish. Ad hominem anyway. You're an imbecile.
>>56625526
Or why countries follow the NATO ROE before doing stupid shit.
Still an unprovoked act of war, and there's no way to justify it as otherwise.
>>56625405
Don't forget that after the half way point, if the exit course is taken and clearly defined, they are not to be locked onto.
At no point despite the math or charts or anything except encroachment, leaving, shootdown, does the information have anything to do with the fact it is an unprovoked act of war.
The time is meaningless, the warnings are meaningless, the seconds spent in turkey are meaningless, the area of missile launch is meaningless.
The fact is, the aircraft was non hostile and complied with requests to leave the airspace.
Without interception and an attempt to turn the aircraft around, the russian plane was fired upon and shot down nowhere near visual contact range and with no warning shots or lock to tell them to get the fuck out fast.
It was simply shot down completely outside of any guideline that ever existed for the interception of aircraft encroaching on your border.
On top of that, the missile could have been rendered inert and self destructed the second it was fired. It was not an accident and the turks are attempting to defend themselves.
Its an attack against the russians. It was unprovoked under NATO ROE. Article 5 is nullified due to the aggression of the turks.
>>56626771
Jews Are the scum of earth fucking inbred retarded jews lover
>>56626249
Turkey violated around a thousand times the
airspace of Greece for 2014 alone.
Turkey is bound by international treaties to respect rules when engaging suspected hostile aircraft, which they did not follow.
It's only ok when the US and Turkey fly into Syrian airspace? Yeah no, fuck that.
>>56626487
Go ahead and source your claim, Adrijan.
>>56626771
>There is literally nothing wrong with being Jewish
>>56626924
Russia violates Finnish, Swedish and baltic airspace like once a week.
>>56622149
>posting reddit tier memes
:^)
>>56625826
>They were warned when they were on a flight path to enter Turkish airspace but this was also somehow when they were on an exit course.
wat
>>56626827
Thank you General Anonymous... back to removing kebab
>>56627053
No country with an actual airforce respects territorial airspace.
What's your point?
>>56626909
>>56626994
Ok memenazis.
Hey guys, how's it going?
>>56626396
>the entire post
>Terrorism is not the policy of Saudi Arabia's government,
spotted mouloud
>When Military Personnel breach ROE within NATO, the effect is determined by national law. For some countries, ROE are guidance only, with little independent legal effect. For other countries ROE are orders, the violation of which is punishable just as any other violation of orders might be.
http://natoschool.org/system/files/LEGAL_DESKBOOK_FINAL_version_-_22_SEPT_2010.pdf
While not an official document, this is still concerning as the authors got their information from NATO documents including NATA ROE.
Does this mean a NATO member can violate NATO ROE and not face any consequences from NATO itself?
>>56626924
Even if true, what the fuck does that have to do with Russia entering Turkey's airspace? Russia encroaches into other countries airspace ALL THE TIME ON PURPOSE.
>>56622956
That was the FSA that shot at parachutes. You know, the "moderate" rebels Obomba and the European Union has pledged support to funding.
Fuck this proxy war.
>>56626994
indeed
>>56625871
They were also being supplied by US as well, as we gave them weapons and naval support to keep the iranians at home.
The captain completely shit the bed on that one, as the lock could have been determined light years away from the ship and no attempt to fire upon the jet after receiving confirmation of launch as well as no attempt to put CIWS online and intercept the missile in flight.
Although this has nothing to do with the event in turkey, as the airspace was near legitimately nothing of value, the aircraft never attempted to turn deeper into territory towards a military target which includes taking evasive maneuvers in the turkish airspace, and the russian plane did absolutely nothing that could be seen as hostile to anybody in visual contact much less radar contact with the aircraft.
The russian plane had to attack something turkish or fire its weapon at turkey or turkish aircraft in order to be shot down from the distance it did in the place it was when missile launch was confirmed.
>>56627438
It means there's a gray area.
>>56627053
And do you see any of those countries shooting Russian planes down?
>>56626827
What does this mean going forward?
As far as I'm concerned it only means NATO will not support Turkey in this particular conflict.
Any thoughts on Russian countermeasures?
>>56627273
Oh, jew lover going mad because of cognitive dissonance. Seems like jewish propaganda worked well in burgerland
>>56626936
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-34908469
>Reading the statement on state TV, Lieutenant General Sergey Rudskoy said "measures will be taken to strengthen air defence" and that "any targets representing a potential danger for us will be destroyed".
here u go fattie
>>56626771
>>56627546
>your aircrafts violate rules of airspaces literally all the time
>when other do the same, shoot them down instead of following the procedure you agreed to follow
As several other anons said, this is more a deliberate act of war than a self-defense mesure.
>>56627698
I meant some Turk in the current incident.
>>56627756
Russia deployed anti-air.
NATO already backs Turkey.
>>56621120
Lmaoooooo Russia gonna fucking eat turkey
And besides the problem is not so that they shot down the plane.
It's the fact that they're lying through their fucking teeth, and that rather than admitting the blunder they're making a case for a self-defense obligation.
And fuck Stolenberg, holy shit
>>56627874
That says absolutely nothing about:
>Definitely, next time it will send bombers with fighters escort which will fire missiles at incoming turksmell aircrafts without warning.
Which was your previous claim.
>fattie
>Ad-Hominem
I weight 185lbs, 5'11" and I have biked around 2700 miles this year. I'll let you do the math.
Now that we got that out of the way, let me know if you can actually source your claim.
>>56625526
fuck off Turk
>>56628446
>I weight 185lbs, 5'11" and I have biked around 2700 miles this year. I'll let you do the math.
Jesus dude, you didn't have to take it so personally.
https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/
>Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
>>56626994
I just see half a dozen broiled qtpies
>>56627756
NATO has already released a press statement standing by the Turkish accounts.
not legit, Embassies would surely have headed paper no ? and wouldn't it start your excellencey ?
>>56629249
He's an american. That layer of fat can't do much to protect you when you're thin skinned
>>56629428
But not even the Turkish accounts are enough for a NATO intervention according to their own standards?
>>56628446
>admitting you're a short fat kid
fair play
>>56629249
>Jesus dude, you didn't have to take it so personally.
>stating facts make things personal
All that has been stated is that Russia will increase air presance near the Turkish border and will retaliate against imminent threats which would have been the case anyhow.
Additionally some naval power is in rout which arguable was already anyhow.
Your original claims are still completely unfounded.
>>56621120
>IF THE AIRCRAFT IS ON AN EXIT COURSE OF AN EXTREMELY NARROW BAND OF AIRSPACE, INTERCEPTION IS UNCALLED FOR
I bet you a whole dollar the reason this happened is the Russians know NATO doctrine better than the fucking ISIS enabling Turks do.
The Russians probably saw this little dick spit of Turkish territory and said "Rules of engagement allow us to fly over it. It's only 2 miles wide. We over fly it in 8 seconds. No harm done."
I don't see how anybody can say Turkey didn't fuck up here. Fuck up BIG time.
>>56621120
>fuck the Turks
yup
>>56614594
i completely believe everything the turks say, whether written or oral
completely, without doubt, no this isn't sarcasm
>>56627874
They are going to strengthen the air defenses offshore next to their air base, and try to shoot down any encroaching planes. Basically they are saying 'if you come over to my side of the fence I am going shoot you without warning'.
>>56622296
so this an act of war
>>56629881
>Definitely, next time it will send bombers with fighters escort which will fire missiles at incoming turksmell aircrafts without warning.
>Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
Cmon now, you can't expect them to explicitly state they'll shoot down shitskin aircrafts.
>>56629913
Russians constantly fuck with NATO ROE and push it the absolute limit. Russia is just as much to blame, they might be helping against ISIS but their motives are clear.
>>56629746
Why would NATO intervene, an ally was defending his airspace. If the Russians wants to attack Turkey they are attacking the US and most of Europe.
Turkey needs a lesson
>>56629881
>baiting this entire thread
Le master ruseman
>>56624268
yeah, "ally" my ass
>>56624304
there are still rules for when you can shoot down
read the thread
the rules were not followed
this was deliberate
>>56614594
>In Turkish airspace for 1.15 miles for a total of 17 seconds
I'd nuke Ankara over this, desu
>warn russians like a million times
>they crossed our borders like 5 times now
>RUSSIANS DINDU NUFFIN
>> Hey russian aircraft, this is Turkey transmitting on Guard, you need to turn to the south you're in Turkish airspace.
>> HEY YOU'RE TRANSMITTING ON GUARD DUDE
>> YOURE ON GUARD TOO!!!!
>> D AS IN DOOOOOOOGGGGGG
>> HEY GUYS UR TRANSMITTING ON GUARD
>> GUYS ITS NOT FUNNY
>> TRANSMITTING GUARD
probably why russian pilots couldn't hear them, damn guard police!
>>56629913
imagine if Russia breached US airspace.
Imagine if they did it 5 times now and you warned them a million times.
>>56624714
I agree
>>56624875
implying that the bill of rights and magna carta expired?
>>56625405
where can I learn some russian?
>>56630759
Imagine Turkey breached Greek airspace an.. Oh wait..
>>56630570
>>56630759
we warned ruskies 6 gorillion times goy
>>56625526
>>56614594
What I'm getting from this is that Turkey considers Syrian airspace to be Turkish airspace and didn't give anyone else the memo.
Makes sense. They're planning a large "policing action" into Syria soon, (been talk about it for months now) to take control of the entire northern strip of the country.
>>56630883
Don't believe me. Ask the americans on GUARD frequency.
Also they breached our border like a month ago
>>56630883
the area you are talking about is not greek airspace it's international seas.
>>56621120
I've read the document and I think it only applies to unidentified aircraft but in the definitions it says that russian aircraft is always considered "suspected hostile aircraft". Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>56627438
Nope.
NATO is not international law, and the organization despite the legality of the shoot down, can and will act as they please upon a breach in ROE.
However, the national law only covers the asses of the pilot and commander responsible for breach.
However, it will not save the country from a shitstorm, and does not cover the nullification of article 5 in the case of an unprovoked act of war from a nato country to another.
Turkey could have deranked the pilot and apologized but are not, and instead are defending it.
And under any circumstance, the ROE only permits shooting down aircraft if they are listed as hostile, which does not include incidental encroachment but always includes before firing, proper attempts are to be made to make sure the aircraft is not complying and has hostile intent towards your country.
The turks did not intercept, and under any ROE drawn up by NATO, there must be visual contact and communication before shooting down what is simply a non compliant manned aircraft.
So while the pilot and military are safe from prosecution in their own country, but not safe from international war trials, it has nothing to do with the nullification of article 5.
The duty of NATO is to defend. Article 5 can only come from an attack on your nation after a declaration of war or prior to such.
If you are to fire the opening shots, there is no duty for NATO to help you, example being cyprus and NATO pulling their hair out and wishing Constantinople still existed so they didn't have to work with the turks.
You start shit, you better finish it.
Greek "air space" is not charted according to the international law. That is why both countries "breached it" commonly.
>>56616440
How do you even use your computer man
>>56631374
Is it the 8 miles/12 miles bullshit or are you shitposting
>>56630152
Ha. The USA made a wholesale business of such violations against the USSR with virtually no retaliation in kind. This little-known secret campaign began in 1946. There were losses, killed and imprisoned, kept secret. B-29s and Lockheed P2Vs were used; later C-130s and B-66s. By the 1950s, B-47 bombers were being repeatedly sent on deep penetration reconnaissance missions. Then came the U-2s. Francis Gary Powers' ill-fated spy flight was far from the only such.
All told more than 40 US aircraft invading Soviet airspace were shot down. Question: can you identify a single Soviet or Russian aircraft which was ever shot down over US territory? As far as I know they have never violated it; certainly not systematically and purposefully.
Incidents of Russian aircraft probing the US which are drummed up as provocative are no more than Russians exercising their perfect right to range in international airspace "near" (gasp) US territory.
>>56631215
>>56631237
Turkish electronic defense forces.
Shouldn't you guys be watching the correct radar screens?
>>56630759
>dat ID
>OOPS
pretending it was an accident isn't going to cut it kebab.
>>56631577
>OOPSH
you now read it in Bane's voice
>>56630883
>greek airspace
>hundreds of kilometers of water and even after that peaceful land
>turk airspace
>there is a war right under its fucking nose
I'm not saying what the military did was right or wrong, but circumstances are not comparable.
>>56625166
Cos it was obongo's plan, erdogan just did his dirty work
If you faggots saw a video of a classic situation of some security guard telling some kid to not enter a secured area. The cheeky cunt then keeps poking his foot into the area despite the guard telling him to stop. The guard then beats the shit out of the kid after he has had enough. You would all laugh and say the kid deserved it for being such a cheeky cunt.
If the roles were reversed with Turkey being cheeky repeatedly poking into Russian air space for 17 seconds whilst ignoring warnings leading to a jet getting shot down you would say Turkey got wrecked, totally deserved it for being a cheeky shit.
Fucking hypocrites.
>>56614594
K.. KEEP ME POSTED
>>56631846
Sure thing ahmed
>>56631754
>It's alright if I cross your border in the air, it's not like I burst through a wall
>Help! My borders are being raped! My air violated!
>>56631846
>opinion irrelevant
>bin knife
>>56631846
the difference is russia can afford to do it, and Turkey can't
>>56631846
It's more of a case of children playing football and someone accidentally kicks it over a wall. They go to get the ball and find that some grumpy old man has stuck a knife through it.
>>56631846
>If the roles were reversed with Turkey being cheeky repeatedly poking into Russian air space for 17 seconds whilst ignoring warnings leading to a jet getting shot down you would say Turkey got wrecked, totally deserved it for being a cheeky shit.
This
Russia has been breaching our airspace 5 times now. We warned them.
They also breached UK airspace recently.
It's all bullshit. Fuck russians. All pilots know how to contact each other, but they still moved on.
>>56631969
Wow I haven't had something retarded like your words in my mouth since my uncle came to visit
>>56629913
It's not that they're allowed to fly over it due to NATO ROE, its that clearly the breach was incidental and the response would be interception and communication with the russians by the intercepting aircraft.
>>56630759
>imagine if russia breached US airspace
You mean like what we and russia have been doing since 1949?
You mean the thousands upon thousands of times we have encroached upon the airspace of each other and never in the history of the cold war did an intercepting aircraft shoot down a bomber, much less one on an exit course?
>pic related, squirm cockroach, nato wont save you now
>>56630267
>defending his airspace
That's not self defense. There must be a hostile intent to engage like the turks did.
There was none, and even the broadest terms of standard ROE doctrine for NATO do not allow a missile to be fired at any aircraft not actively attacking your nation or military, to be shot down before attempted visual contact with the pilots and attempts to visually communicate an airspace breach.
>>56632107
We wave them off m8. Not shoot them down when they aren't actually flying at a target in our territory.
>>56632170
What does that even mean
>>56629871
>The average man in the UK weights 160lbs
>The average man in the UK is 5'9"
>The perfect height for a man as per UK women is 5'11"
With zero body fat to speak of I think I have little to worry about my lanky awkward friend.
>>56627925
Oy vey
>>56632172
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_125052.htm?selectedLocale=en
No ones care what you think arm chair general.
>>56632204
>We wave them off m8.
We also waved them off the 5 times they breached our borders before.
>>56632312
>Strawman: rephrasing someone's argument to sound stupid = putting words in someone's mouth
>stupid uncle in my mouth when he came to visit
Do I really have to spell it out for you?
You know you fucked up when even the russian oppositions is on your ass and saying what you did was not OK.
>>56626439
Yea, so you shot them in the face while they were parachuting to saftey just so you could make sure they didn't violate your airspace.
>>56621010
Do you know how far the Russian aircraft was 5 mines before it entered for a total of 17s? The fuck is wrong with you
>>56632107
>It's all bullshit. Fuck russians. All pilots know how to contact each other, but they still moved on.
You can't kill people on this basis, it's not civilized bro.
>>56632170
When even your countrymen are confused by your stupidity, it's time to give up.
>>56632457
They rules are pretty clear cut m8. They were in your airspace for a grand total of 17 fucking seconds, were not aiming to attack anything in turkey and you fired on them as they were leaving.
It is indefensible.
>>56632312
he sucks his uncle's dick
Why weren't they shooting the "refugees" when they entered their "space"? Hmmmmmmm?
>>56631846
Was the kid poking his foot in to stop bandits robbing the store and the guard secretly supported them?
>>56630152
Maybe NATO should have written better rules then. If Russia works within them how are they at all to blame?
>>56631374
>not charted by international law
Its a NATO country with interception capabilities you fucking moron, of course the airspace is charted and defined, lest there would be no definition or reason for them to intercept you. Their interception of your aircraft is indeed backed by NATO, and they follow every rule in the book to make sure there is no engagement.
Hint, its not on a fucking high school social studies map. There's a clearly defined area that you faggots breach between the islands, but most of the time fly right over greek islands for no reason.
None of the western islands are yours, there is no reason for surprise trips over them and their airspace.
None of your grasping at straws changes anything. Your airspace is over your border, and the greeks are the islands and the areas between them. None of the islands are yours.
Its only airspace forbidden to armed military aircraft without prior consent.
>>56632107
I hope they don't warn you when they fucking nuke your disgusting country. Let's see how your mudslime ATTACK FIRST mentality works out for you then.
>>56632578
2 posts and you still haven't managed to say a single word to refute anything I've said.
>>56632036
More like Putin thinks he can do whatever he wants and get away with it, he can't.
Now he is in full political damage control mode vomiting rhetoric to try and save face in his own country to convince them he dindu nuffin it was all the terrorist loving big bad westerners, knowing full well he can't really do anything about it.
>>56614594
I, for one side with Turkey. Russia were clearly the aggressor and should have listened to the warnings
>>56633003
t. Turk
>>56632457
Shut up, kebab, you will get your removingz
>>56632107
>All pilots know how to contact each other, but they still moved on.
Telepathy? I thought you had to be on the same frequency, oh well, it's not like you guys breach greeces airspace 50 gorillion times a day.
GL when ruskies help establish a kurdish state right next to you with russian anti aircraft system and fighter jets protecting it along with rusisan trained, armed and commanded PKK inside Turkey.
'
>>56633003
Aggressors have to do something aggressive to be an aggressor.
The only thing Russia was doing was fighting the terrorist Turkey is shielding which is to America's benefit.
>>56633065
Turks are better than Russians
>>56631297
Maybe you missed the part about not opening fire upon an aircraft complying and is heading towards the exit.
>>56632453
>http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_125052.htm?selectedLocale=en
>ignored that russian plane was shot down over syrian territory
>requesting diplomacy and de escalation and NATO apologizing for the shoot down
yeah, nobody cares what i think.
Turkey should have cared, because if the situation is not de escalated, NATO has no basis to go through article 5, and russia is justified if they go to war.
When more comes out and they cannot deny it wasn't shot down over turkey, things will get weirder.
Its geopolitics, the world moves slowly.
>we are backing up our ally and monitoring the situation
>monitoring the situation
>calling for the de escalation
>not leading it
learn to read nigger. It's between moscow and turkshits now.
>>56632979
Is that including the one that makes no sense?
>pic not related because it's not the same thing or comparable ever at all
>>56633322
they should have complied faster
>>56633003
Okay Colak
>>56632817
No this was more to stop people complaining at the shop owner for ripping them off whilst the real bandits use the distraction to get in the back door and steal all the stock.
>>56632457
They obviously weren't going to target you, you stupid fuck.
Your governments just pissed that Russia is stopping you guys from removing Assad and helping remove your buddies, ISIS.
happening
