How do you deal with retards who think Capitalism is 'evil'? I know we usually shit on the lefties who focus on social justice but the people who have no grasp of economics are just as bad. I try to point out that people today live lives of absolute luxury thanks to free-market capitalism giving people opportunities to create their own wealth and produce things of value for others. I say that it's the most efficient way to distribute resources and determine what people want most.
All I get in return is shit about how the poor employees are being used by the evil 1% of wealth hoarders, and how we should move to communism because then everyone would be equal!
Opinions from people living in or who have lived in socialist/communist states would be very welcome
>>56516439
>How do you deal with retards who think Capitalism is 'evil'?
I just insult them as anti semitic.
Works every time and is also true 25% of the time.
>>56516928
Doesn't work in Australia, our Jew population is negligable.
Wanting Anarcho-Capitalism proves that you are retarded. It would turn into feudalism within months or weeks.
>>56516996
Ours too. But it is the hardest thing you can pull in germany. Also it is the only way to criticise Islam here. Germany is a socialist intellectual lowland with 70% of the population being socialists.
>>56517170
Germany literally has one of the highest IQ's in Europe and is an economic powerhouse. What in god's name are you comparing it to?
>>56517049
Well, it wouldn't have less negative effects then we already have without it.
>>56517049
I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. I'm a laissez faire capitalist
>>56517283
I mean yeah, that's what I'm saying.
>>56517245
>highest IQ's in Europe
[citation needed]
>economic powerhouse
We just produce much while being highly in dept. We are not leading in innovation like the USA or Asian countries for example. And with more socialist policies we see years after years, we will even stop being top at exports.
In a society without morals capitalism is evil
Mostly my issue is with people who think all of societies problems can be solved if we just tax the rich more. Conveniently the definition of 'rich' never includes them, only the people above them. The kinds of people who think business owners are scum because they have the audacity to actually take the profits of the business they funded instead of distributing it among their employees.
>>56517418
That's true of any economic system.
>>56516439
I don't think pure capitalism is a bad thing, its when people already at the top use their wealth and power to break the rungs they just used to climb up that I start to think they should be beggared by the mob.
I have no idea how you handle wealth accumulation at the top, without slipping into communism. But wealth inequality can't continue forever. The more accumulation at the top, the more rot that forms at the bottom.
>>56516439
>How do you deal with retards who think Capitalism is 'evil'?
By you faggot's stopping ignoring economics.
Every euronation only offers economics courses in first and secondary school as an option, as well as in Canada and I have a sneaking suspicion Ausphailia too.
Here in the US all Catholic, private, advanced, and vocational secondary schools require you to take at least one economics course before you can graduate.
Public school is a lot more wishy washy on that so I'm not going to count them.
You faggot's need to make it mandatory to learn economics and you have to make sure you don't have commie faggots teaching it either.
>>56517414
Also we lost every major leading german industry like cameras, phones and computers to Asia. We are basically lost with stupid people, socialists and muslims.
>>56517574
Wealth inequality is a non issue. Wealth is not finite and the idea that just because someone has more it must mean someone else has less is the mistaken idea that leftists base their economic philosophies on.
Is Bill Gates being a billionaire the reason why a person who has never bought Windows is poor? Think about it.
>>56517438
Business owners occupy a spectrum. There are the ones that are in it to make a profit, but treat their workers well, and will sacrifice some profit to ensure their workers have a livable income.
Then you have scumbags like the waltons that will throw a fit at even a small increase in the minimum wage, as it would shave some percent off of their substantial return.
And obviously those that fall between somewhere. I dont expect owners to make nothing, but I do expect them to take care of their workers. Instead of viewing them as machines to be used and thrown away at a whim.
>>56517732
You know, I hear you guys say this shit all the time, but Australians would never fucking put up with the wealth inequality that we have.
>>56517732
>>56517574
>when people already at the top use their wealth and power
Impossible without a state.
>I have no idea how you handle wealth accumulation at the top
In a free market those people would be held liable with their own money if they do bad business/not meeting the needs of their customers. Vice versa this means that people who are wealthy make many people happy and their life easier.
>>56516439
>How do you deal with retards who think Capitalism is 'evil'?
Hit them with their own iPhone until one of them breaks.
>>56518075
Best answer so far t b h
>>56517732
Yup.
>>56517732
Wealth isnt infinite though? If it was, we wouldn't get rampant inflation from arbitrary printing of money.
You can make an argument that the wealth pie itself is ever growing, but that is meaningless if an ever smaller percentage of an also growing population manages to collect a larger percentage of that larger pie.
>>56517971
>>56518029
>>56518108
>give me free stuff
>>56518227
No, it's called getting exploited. I never need free stuff. My family is rich as shit and most people in this nation are getting fucked and are too stupid to realize it's happening, and have been convinced that it's because they don't work hard enough.
>>56517049
Do you have any evidence for that claim? Can you point to a time in history where the conditions were congruent with those ancaps believe and it turned into fuedalism?
>>56518227
I also don't think welfare is the way to fix that.
>>56518335
It's called understanding the concept of a power vacuum and realizing that powerful people will fill that void. Name me one example of a state not existing and it not being taken over or the vacuum being filled.
>>56517971
>>56518029
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to think this is a bad thing. Some people have a lot of wealth so it means the lowest income people are getting screwed? That's a really shallow line of thinking.
Also increased productivity is not due to the workers working harder, it's due to computerization and more recently, automation. Question: If a worker is doing a job, and the owner buys that worker a computer which increases that workers efficiency, who deserves the dividend for that increased efficiency? The worker? He didn't do anything. The owner invested in the computer.
It's a muddy issue and all those graphs do is provoke an emotional response that plays right into the lefts hands since they rely on emotional outrage and not serious thought about why something is the way it is.
In short owners of businesses are reaping the rewards of tolls that they can use to increase worker productivity and so they should. Workers on the other hand get their jobs made easier. Win/win
>>56518316
>My family is rich as shit
Richs Marxists are the worst.
>>56518108
See >>56518446
Do you really think the value of a burger flipper has increased since the 70s? A person is worth exactly what they're willing to take to do a job, and there is an endless stream of people who are more than willing to perform low skilled work.
>>56518446
Yeah man, that was all computers, it had absolutely nothing to do with Reagan's economic policies.
>>56518501
I'm not a Marxist you fucking faggot.
>>56518446
I call bullshit. Those same business owners either directly, or through the fruits of their parents labors in a market that provided higher real wages, went on to form businesses.
The current people at those lower rungs are for all purposes stuck where they are. The wages at the bottom aren't even enough to support yourself without welfare, let alone storing away enough to start their own business.
>>56518501
He's lying. It's a Bernie fag trying to stir up outrage by pretending to be an entitled rich person. Again all his arguments are based off "Don't you think you deserve more!?" emotional garbage than any actual economic basis
>>56518574
You make it sound like they have a choice.
I'm sure they wake up every day and think "man, I could go get a loan to go on top of my loans, and start a business. Or I could go work flipping burgers for minimum wage. Man, starting that business sounds hard, I'll just flip burgers.
>>56516439
Capitalism isn't evil, in fact it is the best possible way of organizing an economy, at least until we build AI capable of managing an actual planned economy without the inherent horrifying inefficiency.
It is (certain) capitalists who are evil, and I for one would have all those who endanger the lives of innocent people for their bottom line lined up against a wall and shot.
>>56518677
Fairness is actually a concept hard wired into social primates. That is exploitation and is by the very definition, unfair. I'm not saying that everyone should be paid equally, I'm saying that change is obviously a result of exploitative economic policies that favor the rich.
>>56518608
>The wages at the bottom aren't even enough to support yourself without welfare
If you're stuck in a min wage job for an extended period you've done something seriously wrong. Wal Mater greeter is not a viable career, never has been, never will be. That is not a bad thing. Min wage jobs are for people just entering the workforce, you're supposed to get skills and move to higher paying jobs, whether that means being promoted internally because you've got experience in how the organization functions or getting a qualification and moving to another profession.
80% of min wage workers have moved to a higher income bracket within 5 years
>>56518501
*Rich
>>56517283
*than
>>56518441
Companies are not interested in doing harm to other people, in fact it limits their profit. If a company has a lot of power but is shit it will be replaced by a company which isn't. There is no problem with a company which meets the needs of their customers having power. And when they go full retard, they will also be replaced. Monopoly's exists solely because of the state.
>>56518677
And yes, my family is rich. I see the designs from my mother's company in department stores and on the side of the road for an insurance company, and my dad's dumpsters are all over the area. I really can't go anywhere without seeing my parent's work.
>>56518899
>Companies are not interested in doing harm to other people
lol It's not that they're interested in it, it's that they don't care if it happens as long as they increase profits.
>>56518914
Good. Your parents have contributed to their community greatly. You should be glad they had the opportunities they did and you get to be the beneficiary of them. Literally the american dream
>>56518991
Example please.
>>56519045
Sure, however I see nearly all my fellow countrymen being fucked and being lied to about it.
>>56519069
>inb4 fracking
>>56516439
Capitalism is more sinister then you think. Take a look what's going on with East Asian countries, their authoritarianism, and growth models. What they've been doing in Africa is what the West did there, South America, and the Middle East--which is why they're shitholes and engage in crime and war (look at Afghanistan pre-Soviet and US invasion).
Capitalism requires unsustainable continuous growth and ecological and human resources. Crazy people like Deng Xiaoping have crafted authoritarian exploitation of these things that have led China and other Asian countries to expand like crazy while the West has been stagnating. Basically, it's going to lead to economic collapse and dictatorships the way it's going, like it did back in 2008.
20th century communism isn't the answer obviously. There needs to be a new economic model.
>>56519069
Wal*Mart, Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon Mobil, BP, Monsanto all have a history of poisoning the environment or exploiting people to maximize profits rather than doing things the right way.
>>56518881
I never claimed that it should be a career, only that the wage should be livable. Minimum wage hasn't kept up with the cost of living, let alone productivity. It's hard, if not impossible to better yourself when you are stuck working multiple part time jobs. The epidemic of part time shit is another "business owners fucking their workers for the bottom line"
>>56519096
About what? Literally every single citizen in your country has the exact same opportunity to create something of value and sell it. You're falling into the trap of thinking that people don't because of lack of opportunity. Wrong, they don't because they're dumb as fuck and the lowest common denominator.
It's not about money. Most lottery winners go bankrupt:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-lottery-winners-go-bankrupt-1301002181742
People who receive large windfalls of money spend it on stupid shit
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-04/groote-eylandt-trust-fund-what-happened/6905600
The issue is not how much money the poor are making, the issue is they have a lack of skills to leverage into something better. Being skilless is a bad position to be in, no doubt, but there are ample opportunities to improve them. The poor overwhelmingly choose not to. Why? Because they're dumb as bricks, spend their money on stupid shit
>>56519338
What's it like to be a professional bullshitter?
>>56519424
Whats it like to be so disconnected from reality?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym5N4ltSlTk
Oh the plight of the poor. Why won't the evil KKKapitalists give this woman her fair share? :^)
>>56519212
>Take a look what's going on with East Asian countries
They literally pulled Billions of people out of poverty.
>authoritarianism
That isn't capitalism, it is the complete opposite.
>Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon Mobil, BP
I guess you are refering to the oil catastrophes, maybe you like to know that those catastrophes have cost Billions for those companies.
>Monsanto
>poisoning the environment
Example please.
>Wal*Mart
Well, they have a shit employee policy, but you are also not forced to work there. They never made it in Germany also because of that reason.
>>56516439
Tell them that the 1% still exists in communism.
>>56519585
>Whats it like to be so disconnected from reality?
>Literally every single citizen in your country has the exact same opportunity to create something of value and sell it.
This misleading piece of shit shows you are a liar and a scummy fuck. I have way more capability to create something of value than most of the people I know because of my rich family and my basically limitless access to money compared to them. I have to go to work, enjoy being a dishonest piece of shit.
>>56519786
You can literally build a startup for what.. like 10.000$
It's more like your common John doesn't have any ideas and is just a common John, which is ok.
Capitalism is not evil. It's just not accommodating to human nature.
>>56519786
>I have way more capability to create something of value than most of the people I know because of my rich family and my basically limitless access to money compared to them
And yet there are thousands of millionaires in your country right now who started with far less than you.
>>56520037
Yeah, more or less. Venture capital is freely available if you have a good business plan. The idea that you can't start a business unless you have Mummy and Daddy funding it comes from a sheltered leftist, who would've thought
>>56520114
>implying
humans are dicks
>>56520114
>socialism is human nature
I want this meme to die.
>accommodating to human nature
It is actually exactly that. Otherwise you wouldn't have any good in your store.
>>56520325
*goods
>>56516439
Just ask them if they think that we would be on this technological level without it. Or just ask them to think about how many things that they enjoy today would NEVER come into existence under a marxist system. Do you think your lebbits/image boards/youtube could exist in such a world ever? No, why would they?
>>56520217
>Venture capital is freely available if you have a good business plan
Exactly. And t b h I don't have any.
I present them with one of the many thought experiments that prove how correct libertarian economic theories are.
>>56520537
which are?
>>56520325
its not a meme
most pre-agrarian and pre-agriculture people live like egalitarian commies
>>56516439
You need to tell em the 1% use dishonesty to get thst rich. Fed, fract reserv, and other forms of jewing
Someone give me a example of a free market society?
>>56519786
>what are bank loans
>what is risk-reward prospecting
>what are public libraries
Obviously a wealthy person has an easier chance making a profit for themselves, yet that doesn't mean it's impossible for everyone else. You make it sound like it's fucking impossible for people to start their own business.
All you need to do is prospect an area and see what the community needs then make a business that provides that good or service. Obviously I'm oversimplifying the risks but that's really all there is to it.
>>56520757
because they were stupid animals unable to comprehend the concept of private ownership
>>56520757
>most pre-agrarian and pre-agriculture people
Well, we left those times 12.000 years ago.
>>56520757
>live like egalitarian commies
[citation needed]
Most of what evolutionary theorist say is based on assumptions and goes straight into the trash.
>women can not drive because they lived in a cave
>>56517049
Nope, you need something akin to stone castles without the existence ofcgun powder in the ME times to go back to feudalism. And there sre not much things wrong with it. Feudalism is better than international kikearchy
>>56516439
Capitalism isn't evil (it's just an abstract concept), but its premises are fundamentally flawed:
>No such thing as a market consisting of individuals working on the basis of "rational self interest"
>Can't into power laws
Oh, you say, but it's magically self correcting by the "hidden hand", which is another way of saying pixie fairie dust will somehow save us all?
Oh, and that capitalism only works in the absence of coercive forces? That the enormous income and equity gap between middle class and rich, and rich and hyper-rich are only artificial artefacts of government manipulation and market tampering?
Well, guess what, chuckles? GOVERNMENT IS THE NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF CAPITALISM.
I know, this is a very hard idea for you pixie-dust-snorting loons to grasp, but I'll try explain in small-ish words in the next post.
Capitalism requires no force as it is voluntary contacts
Communism/Socialism will eventually require force to redistribute wealth
I'm gonna break the rules here:
/thread
>>56520584
Say a town baker has his window broken by an investment banker.
The nieve communist would suggest the town glass repairman or the shop owner should repair his window.
I think all of us educated free market ultracapitalists can agree that this produces no real value because the window was already built the first time.
Both should instead become investment bankers so they can move money around to make more money to build a McDonalds to put the bakery out of business with.
Thus libertarianism.
QED
>>56520964
Sorry, I meant evolutionary psychologists.
>>56520964
thats not assumptions, there are still nomadic tribes on earth, you know that right?
>>56520939
whats the point of "ownership" when you live in a house made of twigs? you need shit to actually "own" first
>>56517574
Lad, two words: Noblesse oblige, dissociate it with socislism/leftism/cmarxism in our culture and you get your wonder capitalist society.
>>56518446
>we've been pounding computers with pickaxes and shovels since the 70's
>i've (ding) been workin' on my 'puter (ding) all the live long daaaay (ding)
>Never had to learn to use it (ding)
>Never had to gain more skills(ding)
>I've been working on my 'puter (ding)
>/pol/ is full of shills
>(ding)
Someone give me a example of a free market society?
>>56521168
oh so you're just a marxist cunt.. K..KEEP ME POSTED
>>56516439
>>56521157
Let's start with an obvious truth: laissez faire capitalism is the natural state of the human race. 100k years ago, simple supply/demand bartering and small-tribe economic mechanics were the rule. There was no central government exerting regulatory pressure, no IRS to levy taxes, and no international conventions constricting trade.
Now here's where it gets fun. Wealth follows power laws, not linear distributions. This means that doubling wealth roughly cubes negotiating power. This is called a feedback loop, because the increased negotiating power causes an acceleration in the accumulation of wealth, which in turn accelerates the accumulation of power. Yadda, yadda.
Now here's where we enter bat country: there's no self-regulation mechanism for the need to accrue power. Put another way, once you're on top, you want to STAY on top, and now you have the ability to leverage other people to ensure you stay that way--remember, they're just acting in "irrational self interest", so they will happily do short sighted things that destroy their own prospects in the long run. For example, joining the mercenary army you create by offering to pay them to oppress your competition by force. Then you can use said mercenary army to bootstrap yourself into being an emperor or kind or whatnot . . . guess what? You just created the world's first regulated economy, where the rules are, "Nobody gets to be richer than me, or I cut their head off."
And now your deluded dream of laissez faire capitalism is dead. Forever.
This means that capitalism isn't evil, but it's just the beginning, and you idiot children trying to recreate it are doing the equivalent of crawling back into the womb.
Try growing up and figuring out what we ought to do next, instead of masturbating to an Elysium of economic "freedom" that can never be regained.
>>56521196
you don't understand anon, they were unable to have the very concept of it. they were literally to stupid for it.
that's one of the greatest changes in our society, the moment when men took something and it was theirs.
>>56521216
fucking anime retards...
What are some pitfalls of a free market society?
>>56521460
that must have been great for you guys when you recently discovered it!
>>56521539
there aren't any. greed always wins.
>>56521168
>Fixing windows dont create real value...
Vslue is subjective fucktard. There is no such thing as real value If you want to criticise libertarianism study it better.
>>56521460
>you don't understand anon, they were unable to have the very concept of it. they were literally to stupid for it.
Well I wouldn't say that. Because we know for sure they had the same brain size.
>>56521196
And they have a state which owns all of their property?
because capitalism = liberalism
Dropping it
>>56516439
Capitalism isn't pure evil, nor is it pure good. All the luxuries come off the backs of others. For the most part, thats chinese workers. Although one can easily argue that lower class Americans get screwed sometimes.
I wouldn't advocate socialism, but theres no reason the rich can't pay more. I mean, even /pols lord and savior Trump agrees. I may not love the guy, but I agree with his tax plan.
>>56521725
they dont have a state
everyone has access to everyone else's assets and stuff and vice versa, its hivemind equality
>>56521725
Not in that way, in the same way as they couldn't comprehend calculus because they weren't accumulated any of the knowledge that they needed before understanding calculus. The same way. Time needed to pass for a man to comprehend the value of greed, and more importantly the power of it.
>>56521817
Not Pictured: Whatever that factory was producing dropping in price by an equivalent amount allowing more people access to it
Why are marxists so fixated on money? Money means nothing. $20/hr? What does that even mean? It means nothing without context. What is better a $20 wage where the things you want to buy are $10 or a $10 wage where the things you want to buy are $5? It makes no fucking difference
What people want are consumer goods. Not money. Money is just the intermediary step. People want CHEAP GOODS and guess what? The factory paying it's workers $1.5/r sells its shit for a fuckload cheaper than the one paying its workers $20.
>>56516439
Capitalism literally means the one with most money decides propaganda and rules. So if a faggot like OP has a lot of money, that means children will be learning gay sex in school and eat feces for breakfast. We are very near that goal with today's separate toilets for gays in USA, sex education and McDonalds and bacon being promoted as American A1 quality.
Ask them why they think the state should be responsible for supporting its people, and how the state can support its people except by taking from those in society who are self sufficient
>>56518335
Even in Somalia, there is some form of power structure. Warlords. Governments are evil, but you're going to get one, whether you like it or not. There are too many people who want to be led and there are too many people who want to take advantage of that. Anarcho-capitalism is a utopian idea that won't work. It appeals to me, except for the not working part.
>>56522092
states pretty much exist to collect taxes
>>56521380
baby's first economy class
>>56516439
>I say that it's the most efficient way to distribute resources and determine what people want most.
>what people want most
then why does pr exist... capitalism doesn't work because capitalism determines what people want
>>56516439
>capitalism is perfect
>meanwhile china is catching up to the US
>>56522035
Pining for the good old days of Communism, Slovenia?
Is technocracy the answer? Apply the neoclassical theory of price? Marx labor theory of value was deplorable. Oskar Lange was a great economist.
>>56522279
If the richest capitalists were good people and made their fortune with fairness then maybe rich people would shape society differently. But most rich people today didn't become rich by playing fair or they inherited Jew money, so you can't expect from those people to shape society morally and spend their money for greater good. It's only going to get worse with each generation.
>>56522279
On the contrary, capitalism wouldn't work unless businesses were able to inform people of their products and making them desirable. You think that a business will open it's doors and people will know it's there through the magical power of the free market? Advertising is essential for letting people know "Hey this business exists!"
>>56516439
Yo I'm going to say I've approached this topic from all angles and have been extremely frustrated too on how illiterate people are on the necessary components to understand the argument for or against capitalism. I've had to work it out myself too which took a long time so I get why you can't redpill someone on it in a few sentences
Anti-capitalism is propaganda, you can't fight propaganda by responding to it alone, they already win. The only way to win is to create parallel pro Capitalistic streams of information for people to buy into. You don't even need to use propaganda because the truth about Capitalism is so impressive just a few of the facts are enough to win people over
The real problem in the world comes from the bottom up, only later does top down corruption take place. The problem isn't government, or rich people, lobbyists. It's ordinary people who sell coercion over themselves. The government is just a supermarket of coercion where ordinary people stock the shelves with different forms of coercion and control over their minds onto it. Politicians come along and start picking out the items and putting them on display in the windows, manning the cash registers, rich people and corporations see it in the window and swing by to purchase some coercion. Buy some coercion so that all citizens don't compete with them in their new field. The corporations aren't to blame because if their competitor buys coercion from the supermarket they will compete them to death (you get on avg. 4000% return on investment for lobbying money). People send their children to government schools where the prussian model teaches them to stock the shelves with a few bare essentials without even thinking about it. Coercion extends to paying protection money for not being sent to jail.
>>56522172
The difference is what they collect those taxes for. The state has three main responsibilities: national defense, domestic security, and a judiciary system.
>>56522383
You know any system can be good system with right people, but that would be too naive in reality, because in reality unless you punish people they won't play like they should and democracy surely doesn't punishes leaders or hold them accountable for anything, because the burden is all on voters. Socialism needed leaders, i don't know why capitalism(free market) needs them. Free market isn't suppose to be regulated by government, so we don't really need them, borders aren't regulated by government in capitalism, so we don't need them. So why are they here?
>>56522630
Trade unions purchase the coercion over people that they agree to be sent to a metal cage if they work for less than minimum wage. This is to stop young unskilled people from gaining skills and competing with unioned workers. It also maximizes teacher employment because people are hunting for these skills they can't seem to find. If you have so few skills that you make 30% of min wage contribution to the business when you start working - you should be able to earn roughly that amount - because you decided you value the skills you gain on the job more (young people should do so especially) - but this coercion says I agree that I shouldn't be given the right to value the skills over the wage. Liberal left types have a huge problem with young people not being paid minimum wage - but they have no problem with young people being stuck in college for 3-4 years where they are essentially working for a negative wage, they are working for years racking up debt not income - yet the left has no problem with this. If it's a problem to spend time earning 0.3xmin wage why is it not a problem spending time earning -3.0xmin wage.
Charity used to be able to solve the worlds problems. The problem is that government 'charity' is unconditonal, so you earn it even if you are a terrible human being. All standards drop off a cliff and no charity wants to put their hard earned money to work helping the lives of resentful people who already believe the rich are entitled, they get no net gratitude in return. Marxists have disrupted the gratitude to stop rich people helping the poor. Instead they resign themselves to gated communities and breakwaway societies of rich people - who can blame them? The government killed charity by making it impossible to compete with government 'charity' - just like they do for other businesses. If government didn't spend 40% of GDP people would have the disposable income to fix all these problems and help those around them.
The proof is actually in the mirror: You're all the retarded kids if Capitalism.
>>56522630
Just go watch some Milton Friedman videos on YouTube. He's extremely effective
>>56522279
>capitalism doesn't work because capitalism determines what people want
swedish post
>>56522707
Additionaly because charities compete they get more efficient, something around 85% efficiency of cash throughput - whereas government bueracracies only see about <30% of that reach people. That's a huge amount of destroyed wealth. Welfare distorts peoples lives by robbing them of their incentives to gain skills and independence.
Capital exists to be reinvested - Marxists believe that the rich are sitting around on cash piles whereas in actuality most of the rich's wealth is in equipment and assets that facilitate economic growth - it floods into new emerging markets and with it numerous opportunities open up for people with 0 capital but skills or the time to learn skills to man those posts and become as rich as they want to work valuably. Half the reason why people don't take up those opportunities anymore is because the Education system has been calcified and reduced to shit by teachers, teachers unions, governments. If people would have accepted less coercion then a full spectrum of different education systems would have sprung up and competed those teachers into retirement - but instead they agree to be coerced out of skilled work unless they've done their bit to stroke the teachers egos by giving them employment yet having zero economic value at the other end.
>>56522719
Do you hate capitalism because it makes you pay debts?
>>56522683
they dont stay around very long unless they can ensure subjects/taxpayers are content
rich people pay the majority of taxes already and would so even if you bring the margins they're taxed at down
>>56522367
>meanwhile US gub'ment keeps going to mor debt with China
It's not capitalism's fault, it's our fault.
>>56522854
He actually wouldn't have to pay debts without a state in debt.
>>56522853
Any deviation from Capitalism is the destruction of wealth through inefficiencies because of the destructon of price information. Socialism will work great in the first year, because it's still running on the products of 50 years of Capitalism. Just like a farmer, in the first year that you destroy the price information about saving some seed crop to plant for next year, instead eating/selling it, you appear to have generated prosperity. But come next year your harvest is smaller because you planted less. The cycle repeats until you have little to no crops several years in because you always eat the seed crop. With socialism this is happening in every business though - which means the company providing you with tractors to do your job is cutting corners too, not investing in R&D, making it less maintainable in years to come because the price information about reliability is getting watered down anyway. Everyone is receiving the same pay for their work anyway so why do it right? So all your farm equipment is getting worse and worse each year as it becomes less and less a pure product of Capitalism.
People need to stop honoring coercion in a massive decentralized fashion.
>>56522903
>rich people pay the majority of taxes already
Well that is actually not true, the middle class does.
>>56523010
Socialism was centralized too, but the difference between capitalistic centralization is that you knew exactly where money is, in capitalism you make wild guesses, since it's allowed to transfer money abroad and hidden behind non-paper ways. In Socialism you have no credits or basic credits, it's really easy to know where the money is if it never is hidden behind private owning companies. Banks can't be in Jew property in Socialism, why Jews don't like Socialism.
>>56523070
>>56523570
Well like I said, the middle class (somewhere between 61st and 81st) pay the majority of taxes
>>56524491
61st and *99th
It may very well be true that with our current level of productivity we could afford and manage to clothe and feed and shelter every single person in the world. The problem is that if you undertook to do exactly that, there is no way we’d be able to maintain our current level of productivity. It would be impossible to convince people to work as hard for the benefit of others as they now work for their own.
Nirvana is not for this world. Everything has trade-offs. We must work for results within the constraints we are given. Otherwise everything we undertake is folly.
>>56522022
>I'll exploit workers because Muh shoes
You really think having a stable source of income is inferior to having no job but toys that cost 50 cents? The interest of Capitol is profit, not fairness
>>56517414
i thought you guys paid the world war 2 debt in 2011?
>>56524933
Milton Friedman-bro.
>>56524491
>lets start off with some generalized half assed notions
>let me just move goal posts around the refutation against my baseless point
>>56525017
They're two sides of the same coin. You're missing the point by saying 'toys'. It can include food, clothing and other necessities of life. Making things cheaper is in the best interests of everyone. Focusing on 'muh wages' is pointless because wages only tell one side of the story. You can live like a king in Indonesia on a wage that would have you struggling in the US.
>>56525017
>capitalism proggreses to a point where labor is fully automated
>pissed he cant unload boxes off a truck anymore
.....dude what?
>>56516439
there are many "bad" groups, just remember that the capitalists who think economics is a science are just as bad
dont be one of those guys
its socialscience
