Why are right-wingers so mad about the supposed totalitarianism of Socialism? You know you would do the same if possible to advance your views. I say it's fair play.
>there's only left and right
>>56507191
I want to have sexual intercourse with that woman.
>>56507191
that is a nice picture
>>56507191
OP, is it okay if I save this picture?
>>56507288
Huh?!
>>56507191
Totalitarianism always undoes itself, even if it could be 100% correct. Force breeds rebellion.
>>56507191
>Why are right-wingers so mad about the supposed totalitarianism of Socialism?
Because we value freedom and liberty.
>You know you would do the same if possible to advance your views.
Not at all, since it is against our values.
>>56507191
I'm a National Socialist, I have no problem with certain aspect of Socialism, as long as it';s just my race.
>>56507191
Because lefty shit is stupid as fuck desu senpai
Right wing totalitarianism is an oxymoron since going right = reducing the State, going left = enlarging the power of the State.
>>56507358
I want to stick my erect penis into her vagina and rhythmically pump it in and out until I reach orgasm.
>>56507367
So how's that rebellion going in Cuba, China and North Korea? There is a way to subdue a society and stay in power for at least 50+ years as reality shows us.
>>56507191
Anyone that promotes the extremes of either side is a detriment to human civilization. The ideal society is one that embraces and defends the rights of the individual and not just the collective. Communism and Fascism frown upon the individual having any power because it belongs to the state (aka dictators).
The problem with freedom and liberty is that they include the right to economically subjugate others, something Socialism will not tolerate.
>>56507191
Because it's hypocritical, as socialism is supposed to give freedom and free speech to everyone.
>>56507661
>something socialism will not tolerate
Unless it's done by the state of course. ;)
>>56507661
>The problem with freedom and liberty is that they include the right to economically subjugate others, something Socialism will not tolerate.
Freedom and liberty must be protected by a constitutional state with strong security and military, and an independent judiciary.
>something Socialism will not tolerate.
Because socialism doesn't tolerate freedom in essence itself. Those who favour security over freedom will get neither. Those who favour freedom over security will get a high degree of both.
>>56507466
The right is full of authoritarian bootlickers
>>56508060
As authoritarian as Fidel Castro, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and such?
>>56508226
Yes
>>56507884
The State in Socialism is not an external actor run by a separate capitalistic class, but rather the expression of the people's collective power and free will.
>>56508246
please post examples then
Also like I said, right wing values individual liberties, which can only be truly kept with a minimal State. Totalitarianism kicks individual freedoms to the curb so the State can meddle in everything. I mean I'm stating the obvious here
>>56508318
Augusto Pinochet is an example, but an interesting one.
>>56507191
Be sure to link me the one where the communist says how amazing it was to be in his communist country and how it was better than all other countries and everyone was happy and never wanted for anything and only a tiny minority of criminals suffered.
>>56507191
i could ask you why are you so mad about the political things you are mad about?
>>56508391
Back then Chile was filled to the brim with communists.
Pinochet did what he had to cleanse his country from the red filth. Other countries didn't do the same, so now latin american is filled with the likes of Chavez and Maduro.
Also Salvador Allende was in bed with Stalin, who purged dozens of millions of his own people, so I'm not sure anyone on the left can claim any moral high ground.
>>56507373
>kek
>freedom
>on /pol/
>>56507734
I have yet to see any worker speaking to their manager in a manner of "free speech". True freedom is possible only amongst class equals. Everything else is for TV stars and intellectuals.
>>56508290
So its just people economically subjugating others then. Got it.
>>56508290
>brutally controlling shit with violence and law
>collective free will
no one is buying what you're selling, kill yourself
>>56508553
There are some classic liberals on /pol/, like myself.
>>56507191
>everyone in /pol/ is an right-wing authoritarian!
Stop this meme already, it's completely false.
>>56508574
In other words, you propagate ludditism and stupidity among your people, because you're a dirty Turk rape baby.
Well I guess that's how communism is still alive in 2015, people are too dumb to question it.
>>56507401
>as long as it';s just my race.
How is that even nationalist socialism then. That's white socialism, or black socialism if you're a nigger. American National Socialism would be without race.
>>56507191
>I say it's fair play
What wars have you fought for it?
Zero.
So your claims are illegitimate compared to ours. So not only isn't it fair play, we'll butcher you for your nontrouble.
>>56507288
To each according to his needs...
>>56508891
Communists never think what they see all the way though do they?
>>56507661
>Socialism will not tolerate.
So everything not state approved, gotcha.
So you're fascists.
>>56507191
Socialism requires that either the state or the people (collectively) own the means of production. If I own the means of production, you either have to convince me to give it up (not going to happen,) or forcibly take from me. Furthermore, it is difficult for a committee to sit there and decide what things are worth, when something is worth what somebody will pay for it.
>>56508290
Yeah right
>>56509072
that rainbow version is pure communist propaganda, did Fidel Castro take the means of production and give it to the people?
The reality crushes this flowery version of communism/socialism and whatever euphemisms you want to call it right there.
>>56508836
>>56508984
>>56508887
You give me more hope that we will win than any socialist achievement of the past. If the enemy is like you are, it would be a grand historical farce not to win! Sonall I can see is keeping saying what you say, you will just wake more people up. It was a dumb decision to break your democratic façade, rightists..
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=Rk6tTIj3zRI
>>56509226
The state did own the land, until Cuba lightened up in the face of famine. There has never been a true communist state. This is because, for groups bigger than, oh, 30 or 40, it does not work, and requires a dictator to keep people in line. In practice, the dictators never really give a shit about prosperity of the people. Even if you found one that did, ti would not work, because an object is worth what people will pay for it.
>>56508290
>muh hearth
>>56509072
>>56509412
You seem to be a more balanced person than the rest, so please explain to me where dies this money come from that a person is willing to pay for an item?
>>56507661
>the right to economically subjugate others
1. Agrees to certain job for certain wage.
2. Accuse employer of "economic subjugation".
3. Demand raise.
4. Profit!
>>56508290
fuck off commie if you want democracy you cant tolarate corruptes politician controling the economy
>>56509491
Currently, it comes from the Federal Reserve, or in your case, the ECB if you want to get to the origins. In broader terms, most of the M2 money supply is lent into existence. It's a fucking ponzi scheme.
>>56508836
dont pay attention to him he is a 18 yo faggot who just got into university and met other commie faggots
>>56507529
that is so sexy.
you should write poems mate
>>56509594
thats the prize you have to pay for losing the ww2 against the jew
>>56509527
>>56509598
Should I direct you to Crete to suck some NATO cock straight from the source? Or are you okay with sucking my hairy communist dick too?
>>56509497
>if you sign a contract it's not coercive
>>56509646
We lost before WWII, and it was to the likes of JP Morgan. Hell, we lost before WWI.
>>56509594
So how is socialism spending the money of 'the people' if the money supply isn't currently controlled by the people (or even the state)?
>>56507191
Cause cultural marxism, your new method is specifically targeted at white western males. Why should we just sit there and take it?
>>56509663
no i am not a leftist homo sorry, now plz go back to jamal he is a poor refuge and needs special treatment
>>56509750
I never said that is what socialism was.
>>56509781
I don't like this 'jewry' any more than you do. It will make us all slaves, but at least you think you're fighting against it.
>>56509806
Okay bro
>>56509412
That's because the "true communism" thing you have been taught is a fraud. It's a fairy tale for retards who are naive enough to believe it.
What communist leaders have done, here in reality, is to concentrate power as much as they can then rule over the society and live like kings. While the ordinary cuban lives like a born prisoner, Fidel has rolex watches and a private island. Cuban citizens are forbidden to consume any meat, and it's a crime to carry meat around. They can't consume any fish either.
This is similar to what happened in the Soviet Union, North Korea and more. Clocks are less predictable than communist regimes.
You think every revolutionary is a saint, while the reality points to the exact opposite direction. Stalin did train robberies, and he was the leader of the bandits. Mao Zedong was a drug dealer. All fine folk who are going to share the true communism with the proletariat, sure thing.
The communist leaders of latin america right now are bedfellows with FARC, narcoterrorism right there, those things aren't coincidences. Communists are not idealist people, except for the lowly militant scum that even the leaders despise. Lenin called those "useful idiots".
>>56509940
Uh, I'm pretty sure that what I've posted is consistent with communism being a fraud.
>>56507191
this is why the powers that be want us to choose between international and national socialism.
When in fact Nationalism is compatible with even the most Libertarian philosophies.
OP BTFO.
>>56509839
nothing political correct can be rebelious, marxism is political correct so its just part of the system
>>56509839
Jews might have spawned it but the entire 'new left' uses its fruits as a way of trying to bring about their change. They lost on the pure economic arguments so now have to use censorship and subversion.
As other have stated, some socialism could work but only in homogeneous states bound together by shared culture, history and to a degree ethnicity.
>marxism is politically correct
wew lad how come?
>>56510071
I really love his ideas of physical removal
>>56510176
>marxism is political correct
How so? If any major political party in any developed country called itself Marxist it would be dropped by the electorate immediately.
Hell, even Bernie has to hide his power level and pretend he's just a demsoc.
>>56510264
If you consider that Marx and Lenin lived before globalism, that was probably their view too. Marx couldn't have imagined that Germany would be multicultural one day. Lenin tried to dissuade immigrants from moving so that the capitalists don't have cheap labor. Liberalism is the most capital friendly ideology, followed by fascism in times of danger.
>>56507466
That's not how the "right-left" dichotomy works in political science, faggot.
>left = willing to give up some liberties for equality
>right = willing to give up some liberties for order
Then, however much you're willing to give up (or not give up) decides where you lay on the scale. Fascism is an extreme right-wing position, buddy. But so is anarchy and simple libertarianism. The left/right system is not as simple as growing government size.
>>56510531
I think that you mean that the left-right system is fucking bullshit, but people like shit boiled down to simplistic shit, so they rely on the left-right system. Which is bullshit.
OK, I'm done putting words into your mouth.
>>56510269
antiracism,feminism ,discrimination against the whites ,gay rights and every other degeneracy that exist,everything that destroys the western civilization comes from the left and has the full support of the system,your idiology dominates the public opinion
>>56510441
I'd agree, that neo-liberalism is just as guilty. But the literal useful idiots of this generation spout memes derived from socialism. Both the left and right today support globalisation. The left just piss me off more cause they're supporting destructive ideas like multikult and political correctness cause they think they're fighting the power. In reality they're helping usher in an age of authoritarianism which suits the elite on both the left and right.
>>56510531
Fascism as was done by Benito Mussolini, who was a member of a Socialist party? Or the National SOCIALIST worker's party?
The point I made is that totalitarianism means total abdication of individual liberties for State control of everything. This goes against right wing principles of individual freedoms over State control. Totalitarianism is left wing by definition.
>>56510730
Yeah, that's right.
>>56507288
back the fuck off?!!
>>56509226
>Hey, let's set up a society of workers, soldiers, peasants and intellectuals
Bill, you can be the worker and manufacture all our goods
Jim, you can be the soldier and get your leg blown off fighting all our wars
Ted, you can be the peasant and supply all our food
and what will you do?
>Oh, I will be the intellectual and sit all day on my arse telling you all what to do
Some animals are more equal than others
google Why Johnny Can't Think pdf or check 4+4chan /pdfs/
It's actually the hipster revolution combined with the internet. Everyone can be an intellectual with minimal amount of knowledge and no scrutiny. I'd say it's an after effect of capitalism actually. Individualist idiocy.
The only reason you are falling for Cultural Marxism and Eastern Europe isn't is that actually your propaganda levels are higher theirs. Most Westerners can't even begin to approach current events objectively. You live in a bubble of the bubble.
>>56511053
can you explain me why do you hate white people so much ?
>>56509644
Erotic novels, here I come.
>>56510933
Na m8 I claimed her first.
>>56511261
Hate white people? Most socialists were white. English Spanish French German Russian. The best white men the world has ever seen. Now we're just not that great. See for yourself.
>>56509940
good post
>>56510441
communism IS globalism you retard, they called it International Communism
read a fucking book
>>56511463
Globalism =/= internationalism
>>56511693
care to back that up?
>>56511463
Globalism is a liberal ideology, m8.
Globalism is freedom in capital movement, propagated my imperialist world powers. Internationalism is solidarity, cooperation amongst freed peoples.
>>56511420
you promote the extinction of the white race, i see all these faggots at my university writing everywhere refuges welcome and promoting this shit all the time
>>56511849
I think everyone should fight in their country not travel and integrate-strengthen another capitalist system.
>>56511819
well, russbro, communism is also a liberal, i.e. leftwing, philosophy
how does this disprove what I said?
>>56511838
all communist, ie.Jewsih, and anti-Nationalist
>>56511953
go tell this to your commie friends, really i dont think you are trully a socialist
>why was God so mad about the supposed rule of Satan? You know He'd do the same. I say it's fair play.
>>56512044
>well, russbro, communism is also a liberal, i.e. leftwing, philosophy
wat
WAT
>communism is liberalism
WAAAAAT
>>56512234
well russNIGGER
if you had read Marx, you wuld understand that socialism and cultural marxism are both means to the end of full INTERNATIONAL COMMUNISM
so go and read them, and stop embarrasing yourself
>>56512044
So I take it you're a Nationalist. I wonder if there are actual politics for that? Is there a way out? I feel it's a dead end, both in application and in theory. My politics allow me for some relative autonomy in this world.
>>56512076
I wouldn't mind meeting a Hitler supporter compared to all the Greek sheeple out there.
>>56508290
Except the fact that all socialist states usually lead to state capitalism because of the natural bourgeois of human beings. The people who were economically subjugating people just moved into the totalitarian government.
And in practice, collective groups of peasants are generally too stupid to run the economy effectively. The rich business owners more often than not get to where they are because of their own ingenuity.
I'm not sure how it is in greece but over here 70% of the wealth is self made.
>>56512526
>I feel it's a dead end, both in application and in theory. My politics allow me for some relative autonomy in this world.
nationalism IS autonomy bro
why do you feel so down about the future?
>>56507191
> you would do the same
Proven false since January 1, 1863.
>>56512453
7/10
Dohoho, you nearly had me.
>>56512606
>the natural bourgeois of human beings
This phrase doesn't mean anything.
>70% of the wealth is self made
That's literally the opposite of capitalism, senpai.
>>56512736
you haven't read them, have you?
>>56507367
It can take a very long time, and rebellion need not be an armed uprising. Cuba is a good example of what passive-aggression does to a society.
>>56512736
> literally does not know the definition of capitalism
Stay mad, commie.
>>56512601
you are in the right path,take a look at this
>http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sofortprogramm.htm
>>56512773
I already gave you 7/10. Don't push it.
>>56512818
I don't even know how to respond to this.
Capitalism is a system whereby the product of your labour belongs to someone else, who owns the means of production. How do you not know this?
>>56508891
kek
>>56512913
read them faggot
>>56513098
4/10
You need to stop when you've been found out, otherwise you've lost all momentum.
Also this post >>56512453 was too obvious. Tone it down.
>>56513276
so you HAVE read them then, faggot?
>>56513306
2/10
You're still pushing it.
If you wanted to draw me back in, what you should do is demonstrate a little knowledge of the texts, as if to suggest that you've read them and are actually serious. Then I couldn't be so sure that you were trolling.
>>56512888
Seems pretty good. I can't pass further judgement because I'm not really aware of that historical period in Germany (it's being kept in the dark anyway). Did the NSDAP have any decent Economists?
>>56513520
hahaha
yo haven't even read them?
omg, this is priceless, a russiafag that cliams to know about communism but hasn't read marx
1/10, and thats the best I can do
>>56513597
Yeah this is boring now.
For real, vary your approach, family.
>>56513678
well, I am a bit drunk now, so I may be acting like a russki, but the question remains, have you read Marx?
>>56512601
>Fucking kek want to see a Hitler supporter
I would love to see an other Venizelos make us relevant again
Or an rightful leader uniting Southern Europe cultural and political
>>56513788
On the off-chance you're not trolling: yes, of course I have. Marxist thought is thoroughly opposed to liberalism, and "cultural marxism" is a contradiction in terms.
But I'm sure you knew that.
>>56507191
I know it worked so well for your country
>>56513788
lol
>>56514071
I hear all kinds if things about Venizelos. He was a good diplomat in the beginning but fucked up in the end I think?
>>56514097
well, I disagree
I was under the impression that Marx saw Socialism as a step on the road to international communism
where did I make my mistake?
>>56514270
Indeed, he was the best politican we had since Periklis
He started the war against Turkey and brought us the Britain/French military cooperation
Then, the stupid Greek sheeps keked him out of the parlament and voted for a barbarian Danish king, he lost everything and the bastard Mustafa Kemal killed thousand of us and burned Smyrna down
>>56514430
Socialism can certainly be seen as a transitional stage. Lenin was particularly fond of such a theory.
The issue here is that this has nothing to do with liberalism. Liberalism is a bourgeois ideology which promotes the domination of the capitalist class via bourgeois parliaments and international finance.
Secondly, Marxism is a materialist ideology focused exclusively on economics, and sees material conditions as the essential cause of most ideological or social movements. Culture is subject to material circumstances in Marxism, and so-called cultural Marxism doesn't make any sense. Society can't be changed by policing language or changing attitudes. It can only be changed by altering the economic structures behind it.
>>56514487
Yeah, that was a pretty bad moment. Why can't we for once finish something we start? We always change in the middle of things and go the opposite direction. No long-term planning in this country. Greece would be amazing if he won. We even had a better military back then.
>>56514723
that sounds nice, but ill informed
>>56514738
Yeah, this is because we act dumb and had no backbone back in the day
But who knows, the future speaks for itself
The next European war will be a reset button my friend
>>56514723
Cultural marxists are so called cause they identified as marxists.
The Frankfurt school was started by Marxists who sought to change Europe to make it compatible with Marxism. As in change culture to force a change in the base
The term may not be ideal but it fits.
>>56507191
We should have let Stalin eat you alive, like the rest of Eastern Europe. Old fool Churchill rescued your worthless ass because he had sentimental hangups about "the cradle of the Westen civilisation".
>>56515178
I'm aware, and it potentially describes a very real phenomenon.
What I'm saying is that is has nothing to do with actual Marxism, and modern commies like Richard Wolff, Zizek or the YPG want nothing to do with it, nor did any historical ones: Proudhon and Bukharin didn't spend much time complaining about muh microagressions.
>>56515178
Who says the bourgeoisie can't adopt ideologies from their opponents? They're actually good at appropriating. None of those thinkers was an actual worker, unlike the thousands of revolutionary workers in Spain Germany and Russia at the beginning of the century. Although I think Russia wasn't ready for revolutions and lots of innocents were killed.
>>56515356
More like he wanted a port in the East Med but yeah, it was sentimentalism when he bombed Athens lol.
>>56515178
>The base (material, real production) is primarily what shapes the ambiguous and malleable parts that make up Society
Food and industrial production first and foremost shapes our Art and Science and Education!
>Meanwhile, it is culture and those ambiguous that actually maintains the base and material!
Culture and Art are the life blood maintaining our factories and tools!
Even for commies, this is a retarded diagram.
>>56515356
He could have killed and destroyed our countries finally dude
Don't speak like this, our exisctence nowdays is based on goodness
At least, the Greeks were allies
>>56515364
Orthodox marxists are pretty rare today now though no? Most would embrace the idea of a cultural revolution as a means to an end.
I actually agree that another term for it would be helpful, if for nothing else cause the case against it could actually get out of square one if the entire debate didn't just come down to the term. But I also feel some on the left know the shoe fits and like to play word games to avoid a critical analysis of the entire movement, from the frankfurt schools critical theory through political correctness up to multiculturalism.
>>56515382
And yes I'd some on the right have taken up some of it, particularly neo-liberals. For them multiculturalism provides a feel good guise for their globalisation, and one that is hard to argue against from the left.
>>56515719
Should I go into a Quantum Physics conference and try to troll them? "yeah right, how can these particles exist if I can't see them lolol so dumb"
>>56507191
Meet your match.
Sub human scum.
There is a difference between being tolerant and pretentiously stupid.
>>56515823
>Orthodox marxists are pretty rare today now though no?
Sort of. There are plenty out there, but they're not the force they once were. Instead, the left is now dominated by infantile, anti-intellectual SJWs who are more numerous and much louder than genuine leftists.
It's why /leftypol/ hates SJWs so much.
>Most would embrace the idea of a cultural revolution as a means to an end.
They'll embrace fucking anything as long as it sounds radical.
>I actually agree that another term for it would be helpful, if for nothing else cause the case against it could actually get out of square one if the entire debate didn't just come down to the term. But I also feel some on the left know the shoe fits and like to play word games to avoid a critical analysis of the entire movement, from the frankfurt schools critical theory through political correctness up to multiculturalism.
Yeah, pretty much. /leftypol/ are correct in that the term doesn't make any sense, but that's entirely beside the point. It describes a real phenomenon that otherwise has no title.
>>56507191
Socialism and communism are two different things.
>>56510933
Go fuck a whore!
Nationalism = passing on your autonomy (capacity of making personal decisions) to the Nation, nominally including government and higher classes
Socialism = passing on your autonomy to society, nominally "no classes" but in practice a managerial entity (state)
Communalism = the same at a smaller level with more direct democracy
Syndicalism = based on worker's unions instead of locality
Global capitalism = give everything up to the City of London, Singapore, Wall Street
>>56507191
This thread is shit
>Anyone posting below me would have his foot dipped into my POO in the STREET I did not do in the LOO
>>56516070
Would tis be a suitable term?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism
>Although there have been many schools of Marxist thought that are sharply distinguished from Marxism–Leninism - such as Austromarxism or the Left Communism of Antonie Pannekoek or Rosa Luxemburg - those theorists who downplay the primacy of economic analysis are considered Western Marxists, as they concern themselves instead with abstract and philosophical areas of Marxism. In its earliest years, Western Marxism's most characteristic element was a stress on the Hegelian and humanist components of Karl Marx's thought, but later forms of Western Marxism, such as Structural Marxism, have been just as strongly antihumanist.
Or will anything with Marxism in the title be rejected?
Notice the wiki-jews are already on the case.
Okay this bread went downhill
>just like Marxist production plans
>>56507191
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YucmckYkr4
>>56509246
Main difference between right and left, us on the right usually have mass amounts of firearms.
Proud to have my restricted license and own ceramic tipped AT rounds for my PTRS 41
>>56507588
But that's not very successful as far as countries go.
>>56507191
>You know you would do the same if possible to advance your views
yeah, but since I'm a classical liberal the only thing I'd be forcing is freedom
>>56507661
socialism is quite literally the economic subjugation of everyone
>>56507191
>>56507288
>>56507307
>>56507529
This isn't a porn board you degenerate faggots.
>>56507191
Pay debt
>>56519426
Fidel has been in power for more than 50 years, and he lives pretty well, sounds successful for me.
The right wing generally wants to quash speech that is demonstrably harmful, not that it simply disagrees with. Also, we prefer to quash it through good old fashioned censorship rather than by punishing the individuals voicing these ideas materially by having them fired, exiled, murdered, etc.
But that's not even necessary, because if you go up behind a podium and tell the world you think there should be more black dicks in white actresses on Netflix, few of us can be bothered to stop you. It's when you start actually putting those black dicks in the actresses that we're going to string you up.
>>56512913
The product of your labor doesn't automatically belong to someone else. You trade it to someone else in return for wages. To suggest that the product shouldn't belong to the owner of the means of production after this takes place is as absurd as arguing that the worker shouldn't receive the wages.
But this is precisely the trouble with conventional socialism. It paints these issues in shades of morality and other magical stuff like rights and ownership. Fuck your morality and rights and ownership. I want to live in a nice civilization where people can be reasonably comfortable and happy without being lucky, working themselves to death, or fearing for their lives. This means allowing the trade of labor for wages to happen when society benefits from it, forbidding it when it damages society, protecting those who contribute to the good of civilization, and locking up those who harm it. This means dealing harshly with both the mogul who behaves as if he owns the worker AND the worker who would deny the mogul his due as a catalyst to the prosperity of many.
>>56519418
Main difference is we form communist parties that take over the army :^)
Good luck with your AR though!
>>56520492
Is your current government gommie? I thought they were considered sellouts by the left.
>>56516212
I'm trying
>>56520897
Yeah, massive sellouts thankfully it was evident from the beginning though. They never spoke a clear word.
>>56521490
This is why the right don't like it. It doesn't work in practice. And the people pushing hardest for it, and having the most success are those that are trying to change culture first, hoping it will result in a change of economic outcome.
