Explain to me without resorting to memes such as 'it's not human nature' and it 'has failed every time it has been tried' why you aren't a Communist.
>>56502286
Explain to me why Evolution is real without using all this evidence for it.
I don't like sharing.
I also like having a national identity and not being treated as a woman's equal.
>>56502286
i'm not a faggot
I believe in capitalism?
>>56502286
because I'm an above average worker
>>56502426
Oh, and I love Jesus.
Sure am glad I was born in 'merrica.
>>56502286
I like nations.
>>56502286
Kill yourself kike go back to your containment board you cringy kike trash
SAGE
>>56502415
>>56502415
It's more complicated than that, also at least under communism you have something to share. Under capitalism banks own you. You need to take a loan to get something. Education, car, hause etc. And then you will literaly be forced to work to pay back your debt.
>>56502459
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism
>>56502286
My parents lived under communism and came to the United States to escape that shit. I'll take their word over some edgy Che t shirt wearing faggot.
Communism only works in practice if most people are indoctrinated to follow its principles and practices. Otherwise you need to enforce Communism at the end of a gun barrel.
I don't want to live in a society like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of capitalism either. I prefer a mixed economy where the very essentials (healthcare, fire dept, police, etc) are socialist inbnature where as everything is free market capitalist.
>>56502710
There are people who hate USA for not being capitalist enought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib011FxfmaI
>>56502642
pay denbts you disgusting dirty hairy cunt
>>56502664
>at least under communism you have something to share
You have a bare minimum, and it's already given to you by the process of forced sharing.
>Under capitalism banks own you.
Only if you're stupid. Personally, I never took a single bank loan and I have plenty to share, if I wanted to.
Eik šalin, dirbančiosios klasės šiukšle.
>>56502286
>Explain to me without resorting to memes such as 'it's not human nature' and it 'has failed every time it has been tried' why you aren't a Communist.
Because I'm not a retard and can recognize when something is nothing more than a pipe dream.
>>56502286
Because u grew up in a capitalist environment and care for my identity
>>56502812
Gas yourself you sperglord kike loving faggot
>>56502823
>You have a bare minimum, and it's already given to you by the process of forced sharing.
Hausing with all acomndation, education, healthcare etc
>Personally, I never took a single bank loan and I have plenty to share, if I wanted to.
Right, right. Because you don't have to pay for property you/your parents have been given under communism
This.
>>56502286
I'll slit your fucking throat you stupid cunt
>>56502286
It was an intellectually dishonest attempt to seize power from its very inception
Because I want to work for myself and not for anyone else.
If I am successful, I want to reap my own rewards.
If you are unsuccessful, you should sit and wallow in your failures.
Obviously I'm being OTT here, sometimes people are dealt shit hands and need help, say through redundancies, disabilities, and some things should be publicly owned like the emergency services, but the point stands.
>>56502825
There is nothing wwong with having a dream that is worth fighting for.
Communism doesn't allow free market. No free market = no competition as everything is financed by the government. No competition = no progress. Have you seen the Russian cars at the end of the cold war? They were fucking disgusting, because the only company producing cars didn't have to improve its standards to reach more customers.
That's what communism does: it freezes your progress and put you in a state of "everything's fine, why change?"
The only reason Russia stood relevant throughout the cold war, was because of the cold war. They were competing against the USA.
Also, let's assume in your Utopia, taxes are at 100% (or close) and everything is free (or close). Why would I pick the steak worth 5 dollars instead of the one worth 10 dollars (right now)? Everybody would seek to have the best of the best of every household item, food, etc. If everybody's equal, who would choose who has what and what would they base themselves upon to make such a decision?
The only way out would be to brainwash your population in not seeking luxury and comfort, but then we hit the same problem I stated: permanent state of comfort in a shitty situation with no progress.
In theory, it is fun to think about a world where everything's free and everybody's hard working, but at the core, it wouldn't work, even if humans weren't corrupted.
>>56503032
Communism is not a dream worth fighting for.
>>56502286
people are not equals. wealth is not created out of thin air but hard work, motivating people to get better so they can have more is a great tool. you cant really overcome human nature regarding greed and power
>>56502701
So they closed down all those churches in Russia becauuuuuuuusssseeee?
Horrible 'muh real communism has never been tried' thread.
Fuck off with your fantasy, it cannot be applied to the real world without mass starvation.
Because I'm a capitalist, a conservative, and a nationalist.
>>56502286
Can someone post that pi about using your eyes to look at the flag before reponding?
>>56502286
Because I'm not a retarded jew puppet.
Bye faggot!!!
>>56503070
>Communism doesn't allow free market. No free market
Screw you.
>>56503070
You can have a free market with socialism as well.
Check mate, m8
>>56502286
Because communism is antithetical to freedom.
True communism requires people to be of one mind, working for eachothers' interests. This means, for a communist system to work, there can't be freedom of action.
It won't work because, rightly so, many people will never give up their freedom.
>>56503139
>So they closed down all those churches in Russia becauuuuuuuusssseeee?
Dependet on the leader. Lenin didin't do much. Stalin reopened them. etc...
Muh starvation
Its probably one of the few systems of government built entirely BY KIKES FOR KIKES.
>>56502357
nailed
![1352729317117[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6OHMnmQ.jpg "1352729317117[1].jpg")
>>56502286
>Explain to me without resorting to memes such as 'it's not human nature' and it 'has failed every time it has been tried' why you aren't a Communist.
it ends up looking much the same like capitalism, with the people who decide how resources are allocated allocating most of the resources to themselves.
The difference being that in capitalism the people who decide how resources are allocated are the people who have a track record of picking things to allocate resources to that return a lot of resources; or at least they belong to the same family (statistically, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree). Whereas in communism, where the state controls the resources, and the party controls the state, the people who are assigned to allocate resources are simply the ones who can navigate party politics best. So as well as being selfish like the people who control the resources of a capitalist system they are also, on top of that, usually incompetent.
Ultimately, though, you can have whatever system you like just so long as you have an informed and politically active populace. Without that, nothing you try is going to work, ever.
>>56503273
You can go into a gas chamber.
>>56502286
There are so many reasons that I will only write about 5.
1-Hegelianism is non-sense.
2-Marx was way too inconsistent with his own views. He would rail about exploitation while exploiting his own maid and friends.
3-equality is not a valid principle in reality.
4-requires compliance over reason
5-promisses ends without actually takling the means. In fact most of the communist politics revolves around getting people into something without actually having to demonstrate how they achieve it.
>>56502357
underrated post
>>56503273
>socialism.
Not communism
>>56503240
Yeah, quote some moron while facts show it doesn't work that way.
>>56502765
America hasnt been Capitalist for over a 100 years buddy.
The fascist have instaured some sort of cult of wealth and freedom but it's not real.
>>56503396
Okay, redpill me on real facts then.
>>56503302
>lives in post commie country
>shills for the ideology that raped his country.
Can you be anymore c.u.c.k.e.d?
>>56502762
>Communism only works in practice if most people are indoctrinated to follow its principles and practices.
Well they thend to end up killing eachother dispite the endoctrination.
>>56502286
>'has failed every time it has been tried'
This is a great explanation, though.
Communism has been failing to work continuously for almost 100 years now. It's that annoying meme that just won't go away.
And don't think I didn't notice your flag, friend.
>>56503455
>shills for the ideology that raped his country.
Nice fucking assumptionm
>>56502357
ayyy
>>56502286
Communism is a temporary setback on the road to freedom
>>56503108
>>56503108
Status quo sucks and communism is worth fighting for.
>>56502286
I'm not 15.
>>56502357
>>56502286
>>56503334
>>56503385
However, true communism has never been tried. The transition is difficult from the world we have today, and the gap has never been cleared.
>>56502286
The history of economics has shown that overwhelmingly people work for their own personal benefit. This personal benefit can extend to providing material goods for their immediate family as well and a certain about for helping the poor, but it all still falls under what people view as best for them.
In a regulated semi-capitalist economic state an individuals marginal benefit for working will be closely correlated with how much value that add to society generally this can be modeled as Va * Tx (Value added multiplied by a tax deflator index). This strongly encourages most people to work harder and add overall more benefit to society because their own marginal benefit from extra work is again very closely linked to how value they add to society.
In a purely communist state a person's marginal benefit for their own individual work can be modeled as Va / Pop (Value added divided by total population of communist economy) This means a person's marginal benefit for the extra work is very minimal. There is very little personal incentive to work harder because you don't see any appreciable personal return for your harder or smarter work. This creates a system where people can then maximize their gain by finding ways to shirk work or responsibility or trying to play personal politics to get a "cushier" job. This is very destructive to a civil society and overall leads to a dramatically lower level of material wealth for everyone in society.
That is just the social utilitarian explanation though. I used this explanation because people you actually consider communism tend to be worthless piece of shit social utilitarianism. The real reason I hate communism is fundamental human rights, and the proper role of government should be protect the negative rights and liberties of people not take their shit to give to others. See John Locke you disgusting piece of human filth.
"it's not human nature" is not a meme.
Humans are fucking assholes, deal with it, that's why things like communism and anarchism will never work, you can't fight nature. It might be able to work if everyone is fucking high all the time though.
>>56503430
Read about the Russian cars part of my long ass post.
What would happen is the Russian government would give a car production contract to a company and a car dealership to another (or same one, irrelevant).
They would make cars based on the current technology they had (1945 cars).
They wouldn't need to improve the durability, design and all that other shit about their cars (not a carfag) as they were the sole ones making cars in Russian and Russians had to buy their cars.
Wasn't a big deal, cars would last half as long as their american counterparts, but they were financed by the Russian government, so who cared?
In the end, it had two effects: goods dedicated for the Russians were vastly oudated and it drained a lot of taxpayers money to finance a shitty ass car company that didn't care about productivity.
>>56503564
>posting the words of an illiterate slav who didn't do an honest day's work in his life
>>56503608
Russian here
Stoped reading here
>>56503671
Which is why civilians in post Soviet states still use Soviet goods and why NASA still uses Soviet rockets?
>>56502286
>pic
Say what you will, but ДOCAAФ was the shit.
>>56503675
Trotsky, at the very least is more or less an example of success story, The Russian Revoliution was a succes and Civil War was won, including beating the Alies.
>>56503743
>Nasa uses Soviet rockets
Russia was competing against USA, hence why they had good rockets. Competition made both these countries pretty good on some international fields.
What goods do they use in Soviet states? Give me example so I can refute them as I just did with the rockets.
Because every communist i've ever met has been a complete sjw faggot
>>56502286
The concept of centrally controlling the markets gives a legal base for non-qualified people (SJWs, politicians, philosophers, teachers) to decide over resources and processes they dont know shit about.
If communism wasnt a aristocracy of a political clique with a socialist fetish it could be acceptable.
Maybe its time to give it a try again, i dont know.
>All the communists from my college making a political career, being in charge..
Please no.
>>56503849
Basic, from spoons to needless.
>>56503936
>Spoons
Like you can improve a mother fucking spoon.
They killed a good portion of my family, took my home by the sea and had drunk soldiers piss on and vandalize it for 50 years, "culturally enriched" my country with barely literate slavshits. Oh, and pick related.
>>56503743
>NASA the free market space agency
>>56503743
Go home Ivan.
>>56503600
Might be that the "true" communism is simply impossible. Greed and self-interest are strong motivations for any human bean.
>>56503405
>Adam Smith
>jew
ok
>>56503849
Also the world we life today is proof that capitalism sucks. Soviets took control of african tier poor shithole with iliterate population and managed to kick start the space age. Nowadays we have shitty apple products with little to no inovation and almost no scientific advancments with capitalism often keeping down science, like oil tycons keeping down green cars etc
Smart people will inovate and create just because they are smart and have good ideas. You wouln't understand.... Not all people are motivated by proffit. Some people just want to create.
>>56503987
DEBTS
E
B
T
S
>>56504035
Engels
Lenin
Stalin
>Jews
>>56504038
Communism doesn't finance creativity.
>>56504086
Why are you living in Lithuania slavsquat? Go home.
>>56503987
>Planed economy
>GDP
Socialism
Money
afcourse Socialist countries have less money, they need less money.
>>56504127
Again, not all people are motivated by money and need for proffit. Smart people create because they have ideas they want to create
>>56504135
Listen, dumbass, idealogies are not limited to ethnicity.
Oh, it failed once for us and that one time it fucking crippled economic growth, threw traditional culture right into the trash and dislocated a shit ton of people. So, you tell me, should we try again?
>>56504234
>that pic
Capitalism has never said that
>>56504245
Well because it wasn't True™ communism. What you got was a knock off communist good which I'm sure is something you're used to.
>>56502357
private property wasn't a thing for most of human history though. hunter-gatherer bands could be said to be communistic in a way.
>>56504234
>Listen, dumbass, idealogies are not limited to ethnicity.
Yeah but you're Russian aren't you?
Because failures of capitalism can be corrected by various policies which aren't communism.
Most importantly, you can correct many things without removing republican democratic system, which has clearly shown to be superior form of government.
>>56504407
See
>>56503743
You are fucking retarted if you think this one pic has any effect on me
>>56504450
Yeah but he's kinda right even though he's a retard: you support communism because you're Russian, while he opposes it because some Russians support it.
Communism is an ideology, and ''Russian'' and ''Estonian'' aren't factors in it. Which is pretty bad IMO.
>>56504530
Russia is not communist country today and communism wasn't born in Russia but in Germany a country that like Russia had communist revoliution.
>>56504111
Exactly, commism = pure jewry
Capitalism is a cooperation between jews and europeans examinin how an economy works as opposed to how an economy should work
>>56502286
Because the conditions required for it to work would mean we're all either dead, or so satisfied that no government is required. It might as well be free market democracy if everyone has everything they need and share everything they want without coercion.
>>56504234
>Not all people are motivated by money and need for profit
They still need money to create. How can you paint without a canvas and brushes?
What could possibly motivate a communism state to offer you these goods, let alone produce them?
>>56504619
You are goddamn idiot. Neither Engels, nor Lenin nor Stalin nor German communists who fought in 1918 neither Spanish communists neither Albanian or Yugoslavian communists were Jews.
Also if anything capitalism is more jewish because that allows couple of companies to conquer the world
>>56503070
You do realize that free market, like communism, it's essentialy utopic, don't you m8???
>>56504683
You don't even know what communism is so why the hell should I argue with you about one part of it.
>>56504584
All true. However, you said you're Russian. Why do you support an ideology which mostly harmed Russians in the end?
Who created Belarus and Ukraine for start?
Russian Empire, although far from perfect state, was progressing and would certainly improve a lot even without communism.
As I said, failures of capitalism can be corrected in other ways.
>>56502286
You are pretty good, Ausie
>>56504530
RARE FLAG
>>56502286
humans aren't equal and don't deserve equal treatment
>>56504704
Yeah but often grim reality of free market is more endurable than grim reality of failed communism.
That's because free market implies at least formal adherence to certain things, like freedom of speech, democracy, rule of law, equality.
Communism often doesn't.
>>56502286
It works as long as its like
>muh people are best
>fuck everyone else
>everyone else has to give me and my people free shit
And you have the power to keep this shit up, like the soviets.
>>56504720
Well for starters both Ukraine and Beralus were part of Soviet Union with Russia so what hurt Russia was the fall of Soviet Union. Otherwise we will never know what imperials could or would have done, but during it's tenure Russian Empire was masive emberssamen. The only nation which made it's population slaves and keept them illiterate. The Soviet's at the very least removed iliteracy and brought electricity to all the corners of the empire and did industrialise the nation.
Because I only care about the well being of people I like. Communism takes resources from me and gives it to people I don't like. Leftists are very unlikable people and I don't want them to decide what to do with my money.
>>56504720
Also Ukraine and Belarus doesen't exist of Communism the idealogy, but because of Actions of certain people.
Because communism is utopia
It tries to adjust humans to ideology, not ideology to humans
This never works
>>56504718
Alright buddy :^)
>>56504704
Of course, I am not defending free market at all. I am simply stating communism and free markets can't co-exist.
>>56504966
So what the hell am I supposed to say? You are just making bunch of insane implycations
>>56502286
Because it's just theory, when put into practice, it fails horribly. Trying communism crippled our country once and probably some other countries too. So never again
>>56504720
>Russian Empire, although far from perfect state, was progressing
Don't talk about things you don't know. Russian Empire was corrupted and hopeless, it was doomed to fail. Famines, mass executions and prosecution of kulaks happened in Russian Empire too but I don't see foreigners talk about it much.
Because it literally can not work. People are assholes.
>>56502286
>It's not human nature
Well what do you want to hear then ? Because that's exactly the issue here, humans are not ants and they measure their own happiness based on someone's else misery.
Basically we're dicks and it doesn't matter how much we talk about it, we really don't want a society of equal rights.
>>56502286
Your limitation of the argument is, in a way, making meme arguments.
1. "Human nature can be overcome." Not totally. Personal possessions are one of those final lines. Even those who have actually practiced communism know this. Not all things can be shared.
2. "Real communism has never been tried." Many failed regimes say otherwise. You guys use this meme of an argument to defend a political philosophy that has never been successfully practiced for more than two continuous generations.
Argue that the sun isn't real without saying "light", "heat", or "look at the sky, moron."
One day, when robots do all the works for human. Then maybe communism will be plausible
>>56505061
>>56505061
Muh human nature
Nurture, not nature.
>>56504881
>>56504934
>Soviets at least removed illiteracy
True.
>electrification
Would be done by Russian Empire too, as well as many things.
Don't presume but read about Russian Empire during it's last decade. It was a rapidly growing economy, and gradual liberalization was already happening.
>made it's population slaves
That was corrected.
Also, all those things you mentioned were achieved at terrible cost.
>Also Ukraine and Belarus doesen't exist of Communism the idealogy
They did. To weaken Russian nationalism, and to weaken Russia.
Positive aspects should be praised, but cost of achieving them shouldn't be ignored.
Communism has failed, at least the attempt made in 20th century.
>>56505001
Of course I am.
>>56505033
>mass executions
Go read how many people were executed in Russian Empire. You'll be surprised.
And like I said, it wasn't perfect, but it could've evolved.
>>56504399
>private property wasn't a thing for most of human history though
>implying animals don't fight over food
>>56505221
>people were executed in Russian Empire
Add to them soldiers executed during WWI and Civil War by monarchist. You'll be surprised. Then count how many died of starvation on regular basis. RE couldn't evolve, it would end like another capitalist dictatorship supported by Western powers for profit.
>>56505175
I had a fairly autistic, socially retarded classmate in a political theory class. Our final paper in the class was simple: try to articulate your own perfect political theory. We also had to share the theory with the class. I proposed a return to constitutional principles. One student suggested a theocracy. The autist presented the most original, thought provoking possibility of all: communism run by robots.
>>56505176
>doesn't know anything about raising a person
Nurturing a child in the most wholesome environment ever will more likely result in a very rebellious person. What people like you need to understand is that there is no failsafe way to shape a human being into something purely ''good'' or anything basically.
Humans are unpredictable, even if Papa Lenin would raise a 100 children in the exact same way atleast a couple of them are bound to end up rebelling against his very ideas, or go overzealous with them.
>>56502286
because it is a Jewish plot to enslave the goyim
>>56505338
>people were shot during war and chaos
Oh wow. You won't mention how many were shot by communists, even before Stalin? You won't mention the famine that happened because of NEP or later in 30's?
You won't mention that communists forced people to fight in the Red Army, just like whites did?
>RE couldn't evolve
It WAS evolving. You just pick the faults to support your communist narrative.
Also, let me tell you: it was around 2000 people who were executed by Russian Empire during 19th and 20th century. Plenty due to real crimes.
When did Tsar order the execution of 20,000 people like Stalin did?
Look at your noble communists:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavrentiy_Beria
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Yezhov
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Dzerzhinsky
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genrikh_Yagoda
>>56505427
That sounds autistic, since when communism is truly established, there would be no governing body at all. Also, your classmate might be watching too much Terminator
>>56502286
>without resorting to memes
STOP READING THERE.
>>56505548
Don't blame him, he's been forcefed soviet propaganda his whole life. He probably believes that before the gallant Lenin took power, Russia was a starving shithole where everyone was downtrodden (which couldn't be further from the truth).
As for your execution rates, let me share with you my favorite statistic : during the Great Purge of Stalin, there were 1000 executions.... every single day! And it lasted 2 years!
>>56505287
It seems that you don't know what private property is.
>>56504806
>'failed soviet socialism'
Let me fix that for you :)
But you are right, on the rest.
>>56504966
They could work together, -theoretically-. See anarcho-communism and syndicalism.
Because social democracy is proven to work better.
>>56505548
You won't mention famines that happened in RE every ten years or so. Please, show me your sources about six gorillions innocent peasants killed by dirty commies. Oh, you mentioned that whites forced people to fight in their bands, good.
>It WAS evolving.
It was evolving into a shithole so fast that my great grandfather who had diploma in agronomy and three his brothers saw brighter future with bolsheviks.
>>56502286
I want to own stuff.
>>56503743
>Which is why civilians in post Soviet states still use Soviet goods
what
Also, the left side of your pic consists mostly of nice drawings.
http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/paradise.htm
>>56502286
I want to own shit I work for.
>>56505790
you just typed a lot of bullshit buzzwords.
None of this shit works.
Might as well just talk about the evil white men and ask George Soros for money.
>>56502286
I want to be better than other people, not equal to.
>>56506486
Can he even read?
Essentially saying that he has never read Marx anyway. What a fucking retard.
>>56502286
Total central planning never works.
