Why did he drink so much?
>>56475546
Nihilism
He's the exact atheist that realized nothing fucking mattered, which is why even though he thought this he pushed HARD for morality issues like abortion.
He's an atheist, it comes with the job. Pretty sure the requirement for being an atheist is being a pessimistic and edgy cunt who is combative with everyone that doesn't share your extremely narrow world view, while hypocritically calling them the ignorant ones.
That said, he was a very skilled orator and the world is worse for his loss, I'm just speaking about atheists generally.
Same reason he fucked men in college. He's English.
He was thirsty.
>>56475645
>>56475677
>atheists are edgy nihilists meme
>>56475923
They are. Atheists who don't identify themselves as anything are usually good people. Anyone who actually calls themselves "atheist" is 9 times out of 10 an edgemaster cunt
>>56476108
Those who don't identify as theistic, and those who are atheistic are one in the same. Yet, you hold prejudice towards one for some arbitrary reason.
>>56476283
>>56476283
That's not true. I'm a Deist, personally.
I think he is an important speaker, but as a writer, his books absolutely suck and are lazy.
No wonder he drank. He couldn't even focus on one project without fucking it up with mediocrity. He had nowhere near the talent of his idol Orwell.
Hitchens was based. This is coming from a believer myself. He was an amazing speaker and a great rhetorician.
The best out of the new atheists I'd say. His brother Peter Hitchens is also incredible.
>>56476446
>his books absolutely suck and are lazy.
Majority of people would disagree, including myself.
>>56475546
Because who can take this fucked up world sober?
>>56476283
No. There's a shit ton of atheists who are atheist because they aren't brought up in one and never even considered it a thought. When you ask these people (like say, chinese born ones) "hey what religion are you" the response is typically "oh i don't have one really" or "I never really bought into one of those".
Then there's the typically white "de-converted" atheists and their children who reply "I am an atheist" and these are the 9/10 times autistic edgemasters.
>>56475923
He actually admitted he began drinking and smoking because he thought it made him look cool.
>>56476613
I would take one essay by Orwell over all the books of Hitchens.
>>56476613
>More people agree with me than you
shitty argument.
But his books do suck. Most are the typical fallacious arguments atheists have but with better vocabulary attached to them so they look "smarter" to the average pleb.
His one on mother teresa was especially despicable .
>>56475546
He was a degenerate and alcoholic
>>56476283
This is not true. There is a huge difference between the two. Many people in China and Japan, for instance, are not religious. If you ask them their religion, they will say they don't have one. Meanwhile, a self identified atheist is not someone who "isn't religious". They are someone who HATES religion with a passion and feels the need to be just as ignorant and annoying as the people they claim to be superior to
anyways, go tip somewhere else. I'll pray for your eternal soul if you stop being a faggot
>>56476695
>Then there's the typically white "de-converted" atheists and their children who reply "I am an atheist" and these are the 9/10 times autistic edgemasters
You are on the Internet and college campuses way too much. Anyone who defines themselves by their atheism since there is nothing interesting about them except for their lack of a belief in God would be insufferable people anyways.
You get the same thing with people who are fanatical religious zealots but they do not compose the majority as much as Internet atheists like to say they do.
>>56475546
He was a depressive who hated himself. He was a marxist and described himself as an armchair revolutionary bourgeoisie who enjoyed the luxury of the middle class too much to be a real revolutionary.
He knew he was just an armchair commentator who demanded change from the comfort of his sofa and his drink, when in reality if he'd been serious about it he would have been out there fighting.
This is why Cuba actually pulled it off, they had people fighting for what they believed in. Too many lefties say they hate capitalism and then live the high life.
>>56476981
That's the point he's making, retard. People who aren't religious are not bad people. People who actively identify as atheists are the ones who define themselves by it and are insufferable because of it
>>56475738
He was a fudge packer at one point?
>>56477208
Yeah he said he went through an experimental phase.
>>56477116
My point flew right over your head. He said 9/10 are within that camp when it's mostly the college and Internet atheists who make up the bad image much like fanatical religious figures are the straw men atheists attack when talking about religion.
Both sides overinflate and characterize their opponents worst examples and apply it as the rule.
>>56476811
He was a troll, and a provocateur, which is fine, but he did not have the craft to create great works of political philosophy. Again, I love his mind, but his work does not impress and will be completely forgotten.
He wrote his books for the middlebrow intellectual, again, which is fine, and he wrote for his time, but there is nothing about his written work that is succinct or thought provoking. They are glorified pamphlets.
>>56477283
Nah m8, it really is that many. Maybe not 9 out of 10, but at least 7 or 8.
>mostly the college and internet atheists
which is literally almost all of them.
>>56477077
He did put himself in danger enough times, but it was never him fighting against it. He just "dodged the bullet" at those moments.
>>56477368
>it really is that many. Maybe not 9 out of 10, but at least 7 or 8.
>which is literally all of them
you are just as bad as them twisting the numbers to suit your points but aren't even being consistent in the same post
>>56476613
If we're going by popularity than his best work was a popcorn atheist tract.
>>56477393
He was an armchair revolutionary, nothing more. Okay he liked to push buttons, but all from the safety of a nice comfy debate. Was he ever, seriously, in any real danger?
The guy had it easy. Thought he was greater than he was. Dawkins is still the premier atheist and when he's debating he does so in a civilized manner and isn't argumentative for the sake of it (although he has started doing that on twitter lately).
Hitchens was just a drunk who wanted to piss people off.
>>56477797
*literally almost all
>>56475546
I didn't know Jimmy Wales drank so much.
>>56477208
Wrong, he said that there was touching etc. He never fucked another dude. Read Hitch 22.
>>56475546
Performance enhancer.
Some men are just brilliant three sheets to the wind.
>>56475546
He is one of my favorite people in history. Rest in peace my friend.
>>56478507
So hand jobs?
>>56478637
No. And it wasn't even college, it was in his Catholic elementary/middle school.
>>56478608
His brother lives on.
>>56476881
I am an atheist, have identified as one for years, and don't hate religion. My existence disproves your position. Take a better one.
>>56475546
Because he was British
>>56475546
He's so revolting looking. Brits are so ugly desu and the ugliest ones are always the most pretentious and annoying. See: David Mitchell, Stephen Fry
>>56478811
His brother is good on points of free speech etc. But ultimately he isn't his brother and nobody could expect him to be. Peter disagreed with his brother on many points and I think that the reason people liked Christopher so much is because he spoke what was on his mind and what he saw as the truth whether is was for or against the mainstream ideological/political views. And I don't think that Peter does that as much.
>>56479237
I can't stand Fry, always bangs on about his problems. Woe is me, a rich celebrity feels sad.
>Anyone on 4chan acting like they wouldn't get pummeled into next year in a debate with Hitchens
Dindu please
>>56475546
Because he was an alcoholic
>>56479238
Peter is basically speaking against the entire cultural tide of UK secularism, and terminal-stage liberalism. Christopher was a neocon when neocons controlled the US. He promoted atheism in a culture that becomes more atheistic every day.
>>56476811
>Most are the typical fallacious arguments atheists have
What books did he write about atheism besides God is Not Great?
The Portable Atheist is a compilation, he didn't write any of it minus the forward; Mortality and Hitch-22 are autobiographies; Thomas Jefferson is a biography; The Missionary Position; No One Left to Lie to, and The Trial of Henry Kissinger are condemnations of piece of shit public figures that have been allowed to pass into a both cultural and literal sainthood.
There's maybe seven articles in Arguably and Letters to a Young Contrarian combined about atheism but at most it would only comprise of at most 20% of his work.
Sounds to me like you've never read anything by Hitchens save the title of God is Not Great. I bet you're only exposure to him are debates you've watched on jewtube where he's always left you with a burning sensation around your bum.
>>56479238
Also the fact that Peter argues a very unpopular position - conservatism and social decline.
Nobody wants to talk about the debt, or how things are just falling apart. It's not that his points are irrelevant, but they get drowned out.
Christopher was an aggressive debater who was fighting for the progressive view, and its always more popular these days to argue trendy things like atheism and left wing progressive politics.
Ofc Peter didn't stand a chance.
>>56479464
>>56475546
because he was [spoiler]balding[/spoiler]
>>56479573
I think that it is unfair to call Christopher a neocon when he was both critical and supportive of the agenda of George Bush. He never liked to be called "right wing" and I think it is fair to say that at the time of his death he was a classical liberal in the truest meaning of the word liberal. A lot of people don't like Peter exactly because of his anti-secularist positions. Christopher supported the cause of Atheism when it was a vastly unpopular position as it still is today to some extent. Ultimately I have a different opinion than you.
>>56475546
Depression, alcoholism and being redpilled are all strictly correlated.
>>56479706
I don't think that Christopher was a "progressive". Certainly in his youth he was, no doubt. But he became more of a classical liberal over time.
>>56478507
Probably the furthest you can get without dick contact.
>>56480201
His dying words were "Capitalism, downfall."
>>56479238
Peter's beliefs seem to me to be more at odds with mainstream ideological/political views than his brother's ever were. Christopher's opinions never approached the fringe, he was just a scathing polemicist. The nearest he got was being a Trot when it was hip. Nowadays Peter is portrayed as some far right overly religious nut when he is a generic Christian who just hasn't move with the Overton window.
>>56480074
He believed in western-instigated regime change in the name of universalist liberal democracy. This is the worst ideology of the 21st century, and it's probably going to destroy western civilization with the refuse of these failed societies, stripped of their stabilizing autocrats, flooding our borders.
He hated Islam, but not enough to let Muslims live in their own hellholes under the dictators they deserve, while we erect a fortress around the west to keep them out. No. He, and people like him, insist we must convert them, NOT to Christianity, but to liberalism.
It's perfectly fair to call him a neocon. He's a former Trotskyite turned conservative interloper like Irving Kristol. That is precisely where Neoconservativism comes from. Most Marxists don't like to be called "right wing".
>>56480441
What do you expect. He was a Socialist in his youth and he always said that there was a part of himself that couldn't shake it. I don't agree with him 100% on his positions but he isn't 100% wrong. There are upsides and downsides to any political/economic ideology.
>>56475546
because he saw the unadulterated truths of the world
you would be on some mind numbing substance too if you had known what he did and had his scope of mind, wisdom, and intelligence
>tfw miss the Hitch so much right now and want to hear his thoughts on ISIS and how to deal with them
Knowing that ISIS came into power in the power vacuum that followed the Iraq war I wonder if he would have changed his tune over the validity of the Iraq war
>>56475546
Because he knew the truth.
>>56480074
And he said he agreed with the war, but merely too issue with the way it was administered--okay, so he STRONGLY took issue with it. I guess since he STRONGLY disagreed with incompetent military strategy, that absolves him of his ideological position? That's hardly a major parting of ways with neoconservative ideology.
>>56477077
In what fucking sense is hitchens a marxist?
>>56481111
He called himself a Marxist to the day he died.
>>56480805
I never denied that in his youth he was a socialist, see: >>56480909
He didn't want to convert people to Liberalism, he wanted people to have the tools to think for themselves and not be locked into a ideological box. Sure, Communism/Socialism have failed and they always will, but he didn't stay in that viewpoint for ever. I don't agree with him 100% on what he thought about the invasion of the middle east after 9/11 but he wan't ALL wrong.
>>56480441
Well in many ways he's correct. The cultural marxists and mass migration are happening because they are profitable for the elite capitalists (the so-called jews).
>>56481111
By his own admission you muppet.
>>56480973
Neocons would mostly agree with the invasion of Vietnam by the U.S. Christopher, however, did not. And most of the time he did not agree with armed invasions of any nation.
>>56475546
life's hard when you're aware.
>>56481111
And he believed in the ultimate finality of a single universal political and cultural world system defined by secular liberalism. It's just the Hegelian dialectic with different colors. He never gave up on Marxism, he just changed his mind on what the universal global system would end up being.
>>56481233
>think for themselves
http://souloftheeast.org/2015/11/13/free-thought-free-for-all/
>>56475677
How is atheism a narrow worldview again?
>>56476446
Have you even read god's not Great?
>>56481335
>>56481166
Semantics then. Marxists as I know them would despise Hitchens.
>>56478913
They are both retarded but I will explain
Generally, anyone that has to announce their orientation/gender/vegan/religion will be insufferable.
Those are all things that you should keep to yourself or are personal issues nobody cares to know. An announcement of such a essentially means they define themselves by it.
The same way you may announce your identity by giving your name, these sorts of people do so by adding on their religion.
It's not a 100% accurate conclusion, but it's an observation that isn't out of left field either.
>>56481357
He didn't agree with Vietnam because he was still a dirty communist when it was waging. He felt common cause with south east Asians for his entire life, which is why he hated Kissinger so much. He was also noticeably less interested in discussing Mao or Pol Pot as Marxist, instead decrying them for being "pseudo-theisitic' god-men, which betrays Marxist orthodoxy AND liberalism. His position on Vietnam was personal. In fact, he focused all of his late condemnation of communist systems not on their flawed social theory (which would indict his own beliefs), but only on their, by his measure, similarities to religions. He had many blind spots to his own biases.
He's a brilliant speakers. I love to listen to and to read him, but his rhetorical mastery clouds many people's better judgement, especially anyone appreciative for his work popularizing and defending their chosen (non)metaphysical outlook on life.
>>56475546
He was the type of person who either drinks heavily or not at all. Breakfast of champions.
>>56481621
I think this isn't anything new. People say they're marxist when they're young, earn a name for themselves, hit the big time and the marxism dies off.
>>56481760
Living in the south I have found that people sometimes do give a shit about your religion. They press you about what church you go to and try and get you to go to their church. As a teacher if it got out that I was an atheist I would probably have parents pulling their kids out of my class.
>>56481785
Good points and I would say that you were right on most of them. I think that Christopher has a point however when he states that the way Mao or Pol Pot we made out to be pseudo religious figures. It is true, he hated Kissinger but I think that he hated him more for his "war mongering" and carelessness of the weight of human life as seen in the 1971 Bangladesh Genocide. However, even after he was no longer a Marxist he still disagreed with the Vietnam War. He could never totally disengage himself with the ideology of his youth and so it sometimes could cloud his judgement, true.
>>56476446
>He had nowhere near the talent of his idol Orwell.
He was well aware of this. No need to shit on him.
>>56482222
I don't want to make it sound like I think he should be torn down. I just think that many, maybe most, of his fans don't actually take the time to understand him, and in doing so view him as a kind of cartoon of himself--he's more interesting than that. And in learning more about him, and the historical events that shaped his perspectives, people would have a better grasp of the larger issues he touches on.
>>56476536
Underrated post.
>>56482646
I know what you mean and I agree. I think that most of his fans are young people who just came out of religion and want to "stick it to the man" as I did at first. I think a lot of them have watched one, maybe 2 videos of him and love him. Perhaps they buy one of his books and put it on a mantle but never read it. I would like to thank you for having this conversation with me in a level headed manner.
>>56482205
I will concede that there are people that will give you shit based on one of those above factors. My point still stands, however.
Outside of these cases where persecution is an issue, I do not see why people feel the need to announce those bits of their identity. Especially as these issues seem to occur at places like college campuses where it's almost encouraged to come out.
>>56475645
Hitchens was pretty clear in being pro-life.
>>56476881
I'm a self-identified atheist, and don't hate religion(s).
>>56475546
One of the greatest men who ever lived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj0xFpu6Hgw
>>56479238
With every month that passes, history is proving Christopher incorrect on the Iraq war, against everyone he debated about it with.
That, and his fedora atheism, leaves what? Memeing about Mother Teresa. What a legacy.
>>56478608
Likewise. I'll have a belt of johnnie walker black in his memory tomorrow.
>>56476695
>>56476881
Japanese and Chinese don't have to adopt the label because atheism is very strong there, that they don't have to think about it. They don't have politicians constantly trying to ram religious morals down their throats.
>>56481621
He moved away from Marxism a decade before he died. He generally refused to commentate on his political deology after he announced he was no longer a Marxist, generally leftist however.
>>56480441
He also believed that women should stay in the home. He was the antithesis of a progressive
>>56479337
I like fry generally, seems like a cool guy
>>56487357
Where did he say this?
>>56485261
>This.
I wonder from time to time what he'd make of ISIS and Syria.
>>56487357
>>56487514
He said that he wouldn't want his wife to HAVE to work IF she didn't want to.
He said this to some ABC liberal tv host and she was so shocked and butthurt but couldn't explain why it was offensive.
She called him a charming misogynist or some shit.
>>56487514
An interview with an Australian journalist, she was getting very buttpained when he said that any woman he lives with shouldn't be working. Idk if I can find the link, I'm sure if you can google it you'll get it.
>>56477208
Yeah, he said he fucked 2 dudes that later became part of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet
>>56475546
He was an alcohol.
>>56487659
see
>>56484178
>Resist it while you still can, and before the right to complain is taken away from you, which will be the next thing.
>You will be told ‘You can’t complain’ because you’re Islamophobic. The term is already being introduced into the culture, as if it was an accusation of race-hatred or bigotry, where it is only the objection to the preachings of a very extremist and absolutist religion.
>Watch out for these symptoms. They are not just symptoms of surrender, very often ecumenically offered to you by men of God in other robes; Christian, and Jewish, and smarmy ecumenical.
>These are the ones who will hold open the gates for the barbarians. The Barbarians never take a city till someone holds the gates open for them, and it’s your own preachers who will do it for you, and your own multicultural authorities who will do it for you. Resist it while you can.
>>56479783
Ivan the terrible by Ilya Repin. Those eyes are recognizable from miles afar.
>>56475923
This is how I know you're illiterate. You frame arguments before they happen without any proof that the other side even thinks what you say they think.
Hitch was a disillusioned Trot who had very few close friends and fewer family
>>56475546
He was wise, witty and knowledgeable, but grew up during the counter culture and became a Marxist. He eventually admitted before his death that he was wrong and it would never work. I'm not sure why he was an Alcoholic, for such an intelligent man, he seemed to have submitted to the vices pretty easily.
I suspect it was just a way for him to rebel once upon a time (since he was a Marxist), and got stuck with it.
His brother, on the other hand, is less charismatic, but is far more intelligent and grew out of Marxism decades ago.
>>56485261
The atheism in relation to God is what sells, but only a side-note on his thinking.
It is quite unsettling to hear him on Iraq, he was oblivious, as everybody else.
But the only cause in the region he really made his was the legitimacy of a Kurdish State.
Facts are providing his intuition was right.
His political voice started to sound culturally conservative in the 90s. This shift happened on with others intelectuals like Horowitz and also many in Europe. Personally he claimed that the fatwa on Salman Rushdie was a turning point. It just meant that his narrative became less focused on criticizing the remnants of "western imperialism" and more focused on acclaiming western values and institutions.
This is only an inconsistency within the framework of our political space that has no substance and people have to make personas and stick to the same memes their entire political careers.
People like him always seem to be on the wrong side of history, but this is not solemnly his troll nature, his deconstruction functioned better by negation. He always needed an enemy and wasnt afraid to name it, that is the core of all political identity.
im sure /pol can relate.
