![oilminister.ali.naimi[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wPt4GE9.jpg "oilminister.ali.naimi[1].jpg")
>as a Muslim, already foresee the questions tomorrow at the coffee table, asked by colleagues and friends to bear responsibility of the actions of Friday and whether I agree with the attackers
LOL, when was the last time you had to justify for the cruelties performed by your Western government and its allies in the name of freedom, democracy of capitalism? Last time I checked the USA willingly bombed a hospital! A clear violation of international law and several international treaties (including the Geneva conditions).
Time to bear your responsibility, Westerner!
>>55809075
>when was the last time you had to justify for the cruelties performed by your Western government and its allies in the name of freedom, democracy of capitalism?
literally everyday you fucking shitstain on the world
>>55809075
kutmarokkaan..sterf gewoon
>>55809075
We have academics to do that for us. That's why so many departments amount to nothing more than intellectual prostration.
>>55809075
>when was the last time you had to justify for the cruelties performed by your Western government and its allies in the name of freedom, democracy of capitalism?
Today mate, thanks for proving all Muslims are hive-minded scum though.
>>55809075
>when was the last time you had to justify for the cruelties performed by your Western government and its allies in the name of freedom, democracy of capitalism?
All the fucking time. Literally anytime anything bad happens in the world it's white Americans fault. You fucks can't handle the bantz. Any criticism of Islam is muh racism muh insult muh kill innocent people over cartoons.
Go fuck yourself.
>>55809075
>be muslim
>hide ammo in hospital
>hospital gets destroyed
>blame the west
Do you really think they blow up hospitals for fun fucking unevolved degenerate?
>>55809075
Everytime discussion lands on foreign policy you dipshit. Is it really that hard for muslims to grasp that they are indeed responcible for their actions?
>when was the last time you had to justify for the cruelties performed by your Western government and its allies in the name of freedom, democracy of capitalism?
Every day.
>>55809075
What does that mean? Are you openly arguing that the Parisians deserved it? HE DOES SUPPORT THE ATTACKS!
>>55809075
DWB faggots got bombed because 3/4 of the people they were treating were wounded fighters.
>>55809507
Typical kike mindset to spread lies to promote war
>>55809075
Maybe if you want to be s filthy savage you should live in sandland. You should be dead.
>>55809075
And one more thing. You live in Holland and you do not identify as a westerner... Get the fuck back to whatever sandbox God designated for your particular brand of devilspawn!
The same number of times your mom got fucked by a camel last night
>>55809075
opkankeren baardaap
>>55809075
Please say you agree.
I'm with ISIS on this, we need to create a total muslim vs non-muslim dichotomy with no neutral zone. Then we can have it out once and for all.
>>55809797
>>55809797
Wow, I don't think even we have it that bad...
>>55809507
https://www.rt.com/news/317542-kunduz-hospital-bombing-msf/
I see Hasbara politics has managed to convinced you that every hospital and school in the Middle East has a rocket installation underneath it.
>>55809566
Innocent people never deserve to be casualties of a war and what happened in Paris cannot be justified. Hoewever, they had it coming for them though. As a country, being on war with an enemy in a foreign country, you cannot reasonably expect to be able to keep poking the bear and not get hit back as a result.
Or, when Los Angeles gets hit by Iranian missiles, do you expect your government to just say "Oh, it's okay, that happens!". Nah, you will be glad to see Teheran receive some bombing on its own.
The citizens of Paris cannot be blamed, it is the French government who willingly begun a war and did not enough to protect its civilians in case of a counter-attack, how dirty that might have been.
>>55809075
Well do you agree with the attackers or not?
If you are muslim and don't have enough ammunition to shoot back and turn it into a holocaust you are retarded.
>>55810074
To be honest, I have no idea who the attackers were or what their motives are. In fact, French secret services are still figuring that out.
>>55809075
>when was the last time you had to justify for the cruelties performed by your Western government and its allies in the name of freedom, democracy of capitalism?
I speak out AGAINST those.
As do millions of my countrymen.
Muslims hardly ever speak out against terrorism.
>>55809075
Hundreds of Western civilians were massacred and you're more concerned about your own social status and some awkwardness than their lives. Great job. Why do you choose live in a country filled with people who you so transparently hate?
>>55809075
I don't see what the problem is with saying "No I don't agree with them." Same shit happens when you talk to people here and say "No I don't agree with what my government is doing," same deal with the French population not wanting to bomb Syria for the past year but their government doing it anyway. No one agrees with shit that's done on their behalf but we still have to bear that burden. It's like these arguments were thought up by kindergartners
>>55810237
>Muslims hardly ever speak out against terrorism.
Silly Holländer, it's because they dont speak your language. Why don't you learn some arabic and talk to them you bigot.
Either way Muslims in Europe are digging their own graves by not openly rejecting these terrorist attacks.
Even if you don't think it's your job, you will be the one send to concentration camps if this gets out of hand.
>>55810261
I do not transparently hate the people I live with and am not concerned with my own social status.
>hundreds
They are barely reaching 150 confirmddeaths at this point.
>>55810338
Why should I out my opinion of a group I do not feel associated with or are part of? For everything they do, I should say whether I agree with them or not? You voted for your government, that's a different story.
>>55810541
>send to concentration camps
Funny you think that, just because the Jews were obedient sheep circa 1940s, you really think that will happen when they start picking Muslims off the street?
you should leave islam. that's all we want you to do. if you don't, well, then we know that you side with isis.
>>55810660
You're right not to feel personally responsible for a bunch of jihadis.
What you should ask yourself whether it is in your own interest to publicly take this 'not my problem' stance.
Also, if you're a citizen, you're as much responsible for this government as any of us.
>>55810805
They will go down kicking and screaming.
But what can they do about it?
Jews had a much bigger chance of surviving becasue they had the majority of the Dutch population supporting them.
>>55809075
Religion is a self deluding choice you fucking idiot.
Act like a fucking man and stop praying to your skyfriend like the delusional coward you are
>muh afterlife
Fucking plebs
>>55809075
Every day I get bashed for what White countries/people have done in the past.
>>55810541
Want to know how muslims that were affected in some kind of manner by the War on Terror? They think on the inside that it serves them right for relentlessly bombing their countries and I can honeslty sympathize with that because we do the exact same thing. Just look at any thread on /pol/. Muslims are what /pol/ would be if they were muslim.
America has managed to alienate an entire religion in a matter of a decade in western nations.
>>55809075
>Hospital
Called in by the Afghan Army.
>Defending the West.
Very often, I go to an American University and am a white male.
>>55810870
I have not voted (at all) for this government, I only live in this country and pay the amount of taxes law requires me to pay. If you are telling me that living in a country is the same as being responsible for a government, then I am mistaken.
It is in my own interest because I feel zero desire to continuously publicly approve or disapprove of a certain group its action. My stance is that I am not associated with certain groups, I do not condemn nor approve of their actions. Because I am not part of them. How hard is it to understand that?
Or have you condemned or approved USA foreign policy recently? Israel's? German's? Italy's? European Union's? At which point should you stop "taking your own interest to publicly take stance"?
It's not that hard stupid sandnigger.
Stop squirming and condemn the attacks.
Say it's not your Islam that did it.
>>55809075
Stop being a muslim, problem fixed.
>>55809075
letterlijk elke dag door 16 jarige mocros die me kknederlander noemen en nogsteeds butthurt zijn over shit van 500 jaar geleden waar blanke nederlanders tegenwoordig niks mee te maken hebben.
Maar gelukkig ben ik zelf niet zo -
Wat isis juist wilt is dat we allemaal HURDUR OORLOG TEGEN ISIS roepen. Is gratis recruitement voor hun.
Beste wat we kunnen doen is gewoon doen alsof ze niet bestaan en gewoon doorgaan met ons leven leiden en werken aan Nederland een betere plek maken.
>>55809075
Give up your religion become a christian
>>55811602
>over shit van 500 jaar geleden
Maar Nederland heeft nooit iets tegen Marokko gedaan, ze hadden zelfs een handelsrelatie. Waar hebben ze het dan precies over?
>>55811046
Doesn't matter what is right or wrong.
It's not a moral issue I'm raising.
Just stating the facts: bad things will happen to all Muslims in Europe unless they start openly condemning terrorist attacks.
>>55811516
>not your Islam
And with that imply that there is an Islam in which this is OK? Like I said before, I feel associated nor part of the group who carried out the attacks, so why should I condemn the attacks? Everyone in their right mind condemns attacks on innocent civilians, but whether the French should not have anticipated these attacks is a whole different equation.
>>55811424
>that living in a country is the same as being responsible for a government
THIS is the c u c k mind state that can only exist in 2015 in a the minds of entitled immigrants that would cry at not being called a real French citizen and deserving of the same respect kek
>>55811424
If you live in a country and are a citizen then you are responsible for your government. Just paying taxes isn't enough.
Democracy is not a spectator sport.
> me
> Minnesota
> have been caucus convenor
> still single issue organizer
> at state capitol many times to lobby and support legislative and committy testimony
If yours is the typical Muslim attitude to self government then you're stupid.
>>55811424
>I have not voted (at all) for this government, I only live in this country and pay the amount of taxes law requires me to pay. If you are telling me that living in a country is the same as being responsible for a government, then I am mistaken.
Not voting does not make you not responsible, it just means that you willingly let your opportunity to affect the outcome to go unused. You can't opt out of the political, even non-action is an action in these matters. Passivity is a stance like any other.
>It is in my own interest because I feel zero desire to continuously publicly approve or disapprove of a certain group its action. My stance is that I am not associated with certain groups, I do not condemn nor approve of their actions. Because I am not part of them. How hard is it to understand that?
It's easy for me to understand, but for a lot of people not condemning is a form of approval. If I were to say "I do not condemn Nazi Germany" most people would take offence at that since Nazi Germany seems so despicable to them. If you were to say "I do not condemn ISIS" as a Muslim people would draw their conclusions. You may be technically in the right but perception always matters more than fact in these matters.
>Or have you condemned or approved USA foreign policy recently? Israel's? German's? Italy's? European Union's? At which point should you stop "taking your own interest to publicly take stance"?
I have, but surely you can see why it's less socially important for your average white lad to distance himself from that than for a muslim to distance yourself from violent jihadism. It may not be fair that it is this way, but it is the way it works. Minorities or 'outsiders' always have to go a bit further to show they're not cunts, whether that is within a family, a group of friends or an entire nation. That's just how humans work, even if it's not necessarily completely rational or fair.
>>55811769
Let's do a thought experiment. Tomorrow, Monday morning all followers of the Islamic religion in the entirety of Europe will co-sign a statement that they condemn terrorist attacks. Next week, another European capital is target of a deadly blast in which dozens of people are killed and injured the more so. ISIL/ISIS/IS claims responsibility of the attack.
What will be your opinion at that point? Should all followers of the Islamic religion condemn the attacks, again? Or is it OK, because clearly they already condemned terrorism in the previous week. But the attack was carried out in the name of Islam! Do you understand my concern?
I am white, everything that happens in this fucking world is my fault. I am the white devil nowadays, I am accused and demonized even though I did jackfuckingshit. If i bowed to PC speech I would have to apologise approx. every 3 minutes. You are welcome.
>>55812343
Again, it's not an opinion or a moral judgement.
Just stating the fact that Muslims are in thin ice.
Wilders is already the biggest party.
If a terrorist attack in the Netherlands happens what do you think will happen to his popularity?
Your colleagues already question your loyalty.
What do you think they'll do if you refuse to speak out against an attack on Dutch soil?
Why is it so hard for you anyways?
Do you have many family members who support ISIS?
Do you, deep down, secretly support ISIS?
Do you believe your religion means you should support ISIS?
Dutch people would never have trouble speaking out against terrorism.
Why can't Muslims?
>>55812239
>Not voting does not make you not responsible, it just means that you willingly let your opportunity to affect the outcome to go unused. You can't opt out of the political, even non-action is an action in these matters. Passivity is a stance like any other.
The opportunity democracy offers you is a blatant lie. Even by voting for a certain party with certain arguments, that party that has no moral obligation whatsoever to uphold said arguments when trying to form a coalition or agreement with the opposition. All political parties represent are the people, businesses and organizations they receive their money from. Thinking that a political party is there for "the people" is a delusion which is kept intact by giving people the right to vote once every x years.
>It's easy for me to understand, but for a lot of people not condemning is a form of approval. [...] You may be technically in the right but perception always matters more than fact in these matters.
I agree with you on this point and with this in mind, when asked for an opinion I will elaborate as to why I do not take a stance. To clarify it for them. If they still don't understand at that point, it's their fault.
>Minorities or 'outsiders' always have to go a bit further to show they're not cunts, whether that is within a family, a group of friends or an entire nation. That's just how humans work, even if it's not necessarily completely rational or fair.
People will just have to accept that not everybody is an obedient sheep. I am not distancing myself from my ideologies or opinions just because it is "how humans work". Humans are not supposed to work in space either, yet there plans to inhabit Mars thus lots of skepticism and nay-sayers. They should just give in because "that's just how humans work"?
>>55813062
Because there are thousands if not millions other Muslims who will contradict your viewpoint with certain actions because they interpret the religion in a different way or act in the name of Islam contradicting your statements. Having to explain this over and over is not an obligation I have, it is a religion I follow and just because people do something out of the name of Islam, should I condemn or approve of this over and over?
I have no problem explaining what my ideology entails, but I would rather be asked about it in a direct way instead of indirectly shaping my religion against events happening on the outside.
For an attack to be held on Dutch soil, I would like to know the performing group, their motives and the casualties before I can even form my opinion.
>>55813599
>Having to explain this over and over is not an obligation I have
Let's start with doing it just ONCE.
Ah, it's no use.
Second Holocaust is coming (something I do NOT support, btw) and I suppose there is nothing we can do about it.
History will just keep repeating itself because humans just never learn.
>>55813082
>The opportunity democracy offers you is a blatant lie.
So either people are responsible for their government or not. Which is it, m8? Because earlier you told the yank:
>You voted for your government, that's a different story.
Implying that someone who votes does hold responsibility.
>I agree with you on this point and with this in mind, when asked for an opinion I will elaborate as to why I do not take a stance. To clarify it for them. If they still don't understand at that point, it's their fault.
Yes, it's their fault, but it might be your loss for taking a stance based on principle rather than pragmatic calculation.
>People will just have to accept that not everybody is an obedient sheep. I am not distancing myself from my ideologies or opinions just because it is "how humans work". Humans are not supposed to work in space either, yet there plans to inhabit Mars thus lots of skepticism and nay-sayers. They should just give in because "that's just how humans work"?
No, I don't believe an appeal to human nature should ever be given as a argument against things since as you say, as a species we are constantly transforming the notion of what it is that humans do by doing things that haven't been done before. But before those boundaries are pushed there's still a social reality to take account of that may not be changed overnight, especially not in paranoid and conflicted times as these.
Merely from a personal sophistic point of view, it might be in your interest to kowtow to public opinion. I get your point, I just don't think it's the right subject at the right time to be making such a point.
>>55809075
I have to justify being male being white and being American every fucking USADAYOFTHEWEEK!
