Hi pol. Spaniard reporting.
I have a little question:
Are western countries responsible for what Islam is doing to them?
Millitary interventionism of Middle East counties like Iraq or Afghanistan have had consecuences?
Saying that moderate muslims don't manifestate when islamic terrorist attacks is the same as saying that white/western people don't manifestate when the Norway carnage or when the Bush intervention of Iraq?
I hope you help me answering this questions because my leftist friends are rustling my jimmies.
Thanks.
![Estatua_de_El_Cid_cropped[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2eGMqir.jpg "Estatua_de_El_Cid_cropped[1].jpg")
>>55791525
Es interrelacionado, pues. Pero... pienso es autoengaño decir que si el oeste no hubiera metido en los líos de los islámicos de que ya no tengamos conflicto.
Ud. es de España; recuérdate reconquista y todo eso. Hay una tirantez bien básica entre los civilizaciónes.
>>55791525
How in the hell did you think a Norwegian killing Norwegians for political reasons, and a bunch of foreign religiously motivated terrorists indiscriminately killing civilians in another's country could in any way be compared? That's like comparing a peanut to a pitbull because both kill people.
And why would Norwegians "manifestate" when it was they themselves who were the fucking victims? Are you completely fucking out of your mind?
>>55792909
Noice.
And what about:
>Saying that moderate muslims don't manifestate when islamic terrorist attacks is the same as saying that white/western people don't manifestate when the Bush intervention of Iraq?
There were also civilians killed:
>Estimates of the casualties from the conflict in Iraq since 2003 (beginning with the 2003 US invasion of Iraq, and the ensuing occupation and insurgency) have come in many forms, and the accuracy of the information available on different types of Iraq War casualties varies greatly.
Various scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War estimated that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, estimated that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion. Counts of deaths reported in newspapers collated by projects like the Iraq Body Count project found 174,000 Iraqis reported killed between 2003 and 2013, with between 112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants.
I think the biggest turning point was the US meddling with Iran way back in 1953. Fucking with a stable democracy and appointing a dictator favorable to our interests only made them hate us, which showed when they later overthrew the Shah and we got the current theocratic government.
Every single time we got involved in middle east politics, their governments went from being moderate to full on theocracies.
Creating Israel is a huge problem among Arabs as well, but the fact we've toppled stable countries just because is something we can never go back on. It's why ISIS exists.
Jamónbro, you need to know that these people are animals, and they have been wanting to kill infidels waaaaay before our intervention in Iraq/Afghanistan, they have a toxic culture that promotes violence and destruction. They are constantly locked in a battle to kill each other, sunni vs shia. Nothing we can do will stop them, short of full force. They can not be reasoned with.
>>55793735
You could pull some sentimental bullshit out of your ass, like
>yes without the war Iraq would be a peaceful and rich country with twice as much oil, kuwait and its 2 million people wiped off the map by saddam
>>55793968
Paellabro, could you explian me this?
>They are constantly locked in a battle to kill each other, sunni vs shia.
Syria is a secular country.
Bashar Al Assad's religion is Shia Islam (Alawite)
His wife, Asma al-Assad's religion is Sunni Islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asma_al-Assad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad
>>55793735
>112,000-123,000 being civilians
That is what happens when the enemy doesn't wear uniforms, they dress up like normal people, hide among them, and then start shooting at you when your back is turned. Why do they act suprised when civilians start to get killed? they are animals.
>>55794164
What? Can you elaborate? I didn't knew this Kuwait thing.
>>55794250
Idk about that, but I do know that Assad uses force to keep the chimp outs down, similar to what Saddam was doing, he used force to suppress any conflict. Assad is smarter than Saddam, and keeps his people under control better.
The big 5 banks
Their political branch, the UN
US political establishment
Soros and other hedgefund communists
The CIA
They are rushing the agenda now, BLM + college freakouts + massive push for immigrants everywhere.
They want the civil disorder to happen so that they can push more government and police state unto everyone.
>>55794332
in the year 1991, Saddam and his forces invaded Kuwait, and tried to annex it and take the oil fields, but the eagle of freedom swooped down in a heroic act and BTFO of the Iraqi forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
>>55791525
Hi spain, quick question:
if you get inundated with kebab, can the sons of reconquista come over from Mexico and help remove kebab?
i'm uh
asking for a friend
also can we bring gold AK47s and cowboy boots?
and will you not be too freaked out when we stitch kebab faces onto soccer balls?
No. Europeans cannot control governments actions when in power they can only change who is in power at set times and political change can take decades.
They also cannot defund the state or they are thrown in cages.
There is no debate to be had when it comes to " 'your' fault because le bombed middle east" meme
>>55794332
25 mil vs 2, about as much oil in each, saddam butthurt they wouldn't write off his debt after the war eventually invaded and annexed them. Because:
>When I get something into my head I act. That's just the way I am
Dude was a fucking lunatic. Of course genocide wasn't ever on the table, but I'm sure your friends like some drama.
>>55791525
>Are western countries responsible for what Islam is doing to them?
Yes. That's what you get for supporting muslims. They bite the hand.
>>55792338
mmm que bien escribir
mira te lo explico en español porque es todo un lio y mucha gente dice cosas diferentes, lo que muchos dicen esque si no nos hubieramos metido en los lios de oriente medio no hubieran venido aqui a joder, pero esta claro que el isis lo que busca es ''conquistar'' el mundo, destruyendo la sociedad occidental, si no lo hacen ahora lo haran con el tiempo, hay muchos videos donde ellos mismos lo dicen, si quieres info en español te recomiendo forocoches aunque seguramente provengas de alli
>>55794693
>No. Europeans cannot control governments actions when in power they can only change who is in power at set times and political change can take decades.They also cannot defund the state or they are thrown in cages.There is no debate to be had when it comes to " 'your' fault because le bombed middle east" meme
>>55794641
Yeah, Saddam had to go, he was crazy, gassed civvies, and was pretty much genociding the Kurds and shiites. Not to mention the annexation of Kuwait. Add the fact the he was trying to get nukes, and you have a recipe for disaster.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign
>>55793954
>Creating Israel
Pretty sure you can trace that back to ole England using the German provocateurs as a catalyst.
>>55794592
All wars involving the west are really just Europoor wars. The US is a retarded Masonic tool nation and a means to an end. The end appears to be 3 world wars and the dismantlement of the tool nation in favor of a totalitarian United Nations, WTO, World Bank, IMF west. It's never hard to agitate the Abrahamic cults into holy wars, the only decision left was to what end.
>>55791525
after fucking germany's pussy raw in 45 do you think cmming and running would have left a stable government? no, radicals who were indoctrinated would just rise up again (assuming the soviets didn't just conquer it)
that's what we have done in the middle east time and time again, fucked the pussy and then ran away from the responsibility of cuming in her. the closest thing to stabilising and westernising a country there has been there is Afganistan, and their government is still weak as all shit. it doesn't matter if we were unjustified to do it, the big kids on the block fought and now no one is willing to clean up the mess.
>>55791525
You're Spanish.
You should look at your own history to know that Pisslam has done this before.
Reconquista and the expulsion of the moors...
The Ummyad caliphate?
Ringing any bells? This is Islam, it's what it's been doing for centuries against Europe.
>>55791525
America is responsible for ISIS. When we took out Saddam Hussein for no reason, we allowed ISIS to come into existence
>>55795787
So long as Muslims exist, ISIS would form anyway.
Doesn't matter the causes of it. The root of it is Islam.
>>55791525
Immediate responsibility for crime must belong to the criminal or else nothing has any meaning.
Yes the US created ISIS and globalists based partly in the US are pushing this as an inevitability. They and NOT "all white people" are respobsible for creating the CONTEXT. Even they are not directly responsible for the rape. The rapist is.
Logical clarity is moral strength. They want to cloud your head so that you will have no strength.
And there can be no moral justification of revenge. Even if the West was "responsible," it does not follow that twenty-four-year-old women and seven year old girls have only themselves to blame.
>>55791525
It goes back much further than the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Muslims have formed themselves in Caliphates for over 1500 years and they have been locked in a constant battle with the West since the beginning. The West basically destroyed the last Caliphate at the end of the First World War and divided the Muslim world into numerous modern nation-states that they could control easier than a unified zealous empire. Add Israel to the mix and shit has just gotten worse and worse, so many of these countries are now failed states and they're locked in the current system through the corrupt UN. So to get to your question Western countries are partly responsible for the failure of the Middle East and all the bullshit that's coming from that, we need to let them form their own nations and get the hell out of there, Globalism has failed.
