Any older /pol/lacks with analysis of Paris?
Was it intended to counter western sympathy for Syrian refugees and bring public opinion round to troops on the ground?
How will Russia respond?
Also: my sympathies for the victims and their families
It's an obvious false flag. I mean ISIS itself was created by the conscious efforts of Israel and the United States to create a powerful Islamic militant state in the middle east to counteract Iraqi Freedom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDFhgpidzNA).
There's two goals here:
One, boots on the ground in Syria. I'm talking a full-scale invasion, much larger than Iraq was.
The second is deeper. MSM so far is reporting that the reason Five Eyes couldn't track the terrorists is because they were using "high level encryption" on their digital devices. Anyone who knows what encryption is knows that this is simply a falsehood, but it seems to be a relatively common regurgitation in the news.
So that's two. An attack on the digital freedoms of Westerners because "only terrorists use encryption".
Buckle up, boys. This is the big one.
>>55686317
Sounds about right. Still wondering how Russia will respond, and how the French (or, more likely the US/Israel/UK) will manage to fully engage in a ground war when Hezbollah, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the Syrian Arab Army are also in the region, and then there's the new fighting in Afghanistan that will need additional troops if the West is to try to retain control there...
>>55686317
>it's happening
>it's happening
Why is it so hard to believe that these attacks were highly coordinated attacks carried out by ACTUAL Muslims from ISIS? Let me guess....you're one of those guys that screams "FAKE, OBVIOUSLY FAKE OMFG WAKE UP SHEEPLE THIS VIDEO IS FAKE" every time they release a video, aren't you?
>>55687135
Russia is the crux of the issue, really.
They recently scaled up their bombings of Syria, as I'm sure you know. If Russia manages an occupation of Syria, it means two things:
1: a Russian puppet state on one side of allied Iraq and a Russian ally on the other side
2: Russia gets Syrian oil.
#2 is really the important one here.
If NATO can justify an invasion of Syria under the grounds of retribution for Paris, it means that Russia no longer has an open door to force Syria into their economical sphere.
Who knows how this'll end.
>>55687258
There's no doubt in my mind that the attacks were highly coordinated and carried out by Muslims from ISIS.
The problem is that like 75% of ISIS was trained and equipped by the US/Israel, and the other 25% are just followers of the first 75% and thus are statistically equal.
Honestly I think the best possible outcome right now would be if Russia actually went through with their plans to just bomb the shit out of ISIS until there's nothing left.
>>55687258
It's a good point, but by this stage it's beyond doubt that the western allies in the Arab states, as well as western governments themselves, have financed a lot of the groups who became or are affiliated with ISIS. Here's a report from the European Parliament a couple of years ago about Saudi and Qatari support for wahabi/salafist terrorism. It doesn't get much more official than that:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2013/457137/EXPO-AFET_ET(2013)457137_EN.pdf
>>55685943
definately to bring about boots on the ground in Syria
probably under the pretext of UN authority
in reality zionist controlled terrorist groups swaying public opinion to give an easier hand to zionist governments to attack Syria
first the no-fly zone... then we WAR
after mossad did 911 I wouldn't put any of this past Israel. dirty animals
>>55687561
Okay, I was just trying to understand what you were saying. Thank you for being civil. I agree, it does seem that the US has armed a lot of the people who would later become ISIS, but I don't agree that some higher-up in ISIS meets some CIA guy in Iraq or Syria and collects a check made out to ISIS by the US for weapons.
"Here's some money, buy more weapons, Mr. ISIS guy."
>thanks, USA...y'all are bros.
Just doesn't make sense. Muslims like ISIS are simply too barbaric and their justification for their actions is religious. It can't all just be about oil.
I'll tell you what though, fellow American bro - this next election cycle is going to be a hell of a ride with shit like this happening in Europe as a direct result of their "refugee" crisis.
>>55687941
I gotcha... like I said to the other anon just now, it's probably true that the people who became ISIS were at one point being armed by the US to fight some other Muslim extremists probably during the Iraq wars.
Although they were armed, to an extent, by the US, don't they fund a lot of their own stuff now? I remember hearing a story over the summer about them invading some city and taking a huge gold supply from somewhere....like a LOT of money worth of gold from some mint out there?
>>55688243
>It can't all just be about oil.
it's about destroying every power in the Middle East and turning them into powerless little feudal tribal areas.
Israel want no competition, look what the did to Iraq through the USA
Syria and Iran have to go
>>55688243
Why not? We did it in Afghanistan when Russia wanted to invade there. We did it in Vietnam when China was doing the same over there.
I don't think it's as discrete as that. More of a "hey mr baghdadi, you're poor as fuck, we'll give you guns if you attack a couple targets for us". And considering the targets that the US would choose (in this case, Paris) are 100% in line with what ISIS would want to accomplish anyway, why would they say no?
You can't look at an attack this coordinated, this well thought out and say that it was just a bunch of wild animals shooting in the streets.
The religious aspect is just for the grunts. The guys on the ground actually doing the shooting probably don't even know that the US is involved (or if they do, they don't know to what extent). That's what the execution videos are for, anyway - you can have all the guns and intelligence in the world but in order to actually pull anything off you need brown people to fire them.
Remember that two-month period last year where it seemed like every week "ISIS second in command killed by drone strike!" was in the news again? Why do you think that happened?
>I'll tell you what though, fellow American bro - this next election cycle is going to be a hell of a ride with shit like this happening in Europe as a direct result of their "refugee" crisis.
Damn straight. I'm not a Trump supporter myself but if anything was going to get him elected, it's this. I wonder how the Democrats will respond.
>>55688438
That doesn't mean much though. Who in their right mind would trade with ISIS? All of their "allies" are backwards powers in Africa that require moving through Israeli airspace/waters to trade with. And it's not like you can set up weapons factories in the middle of the desert.
>>55688590
Okay that makes a lot more sense.
>>55687561
Would agree with almost all of this, but
1. The Russians have said they will not commit ground troops, so they aren't "occupying" Syria - yet. This could change if more funding is given to the opposition forces (al nusra, ISIS etc.)
2. Russia has its own oil, the reason the Qataris and Saudis brought ISIS and al nusra into existence was because Assad refused to let them build a pipeline between their countries and Turkey - http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/qatar-seeks-gas-pipeline-to-turkey
I'm particularly interested in how the Kurds will fit in - how will the West satisfy Turkey if they give the Kurds their own state?
BTW, you're right, Israel and the US have also lent support to the extremist fighters in the region, as haaretz openly reported a couple of years ago:
http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/israel-operating-field-hospital-along-border-with-syria.premium-1.512232
>>55688590
It's more than just Israel, though. Israel is obviously a major player here, but not the only one.
Saudi Arabia is just as relevant. Remember, the reason we attacked Iraq in the first place was because the Saudi family (who had ties to the Bushes) wanted to totally destroy the possibility of a strong anti-Saudi power on their northern border. They split the oil, Israel gets to call this an attack against Iran, and everybody wins.
America's rang-tang band of variously religious'd allies only cares about two things: Money and power. Geopolitics is just a game it plays to get there.
>>55688766
>Why not? We did it in Afghanistan when Russia wanted to invade there
Russia had already occupied Afghanistan. Afghanistan is the centre of the World, worth billions upon billions in trade routes
Israel had their paid-for politician Charlie Wilson underhandedly used American resources to ship Israeli weapons to the 'rebels'.
who benefited? Israel, when the drug tradeing restarted unhindered by Russia. Unfortunately this time a new 'rebel' group took over the show and outlawed the growing of opium poppys... what happened?? 9/11 and israelameica got rid of the Islamic rebels and the spice will flow. more drugs are being grown and shipped now than ever in history
>>55685943
>bring public opinion round to troops on the ground?
But I don't understand. These are the very same people Assad is fighting. Surely his popularity will be boosted if anything.
>>55688955
#1 can probably be justified by saying that Russia didn't expect the west to pressure them. ISIS is NATO's enemy too, so Russia probably expected NATO to sit back a bit when they realized that somebody else was doing their work for them. Or maybe "hoping" instead of "expecting". This is, of course, just speculation.
Yes Russia has its own oil but then again so does America and Saudi Arabia. The thing is, oil is the new gold standard, so it's practically like saying that Assad has a vault filled with $10 trillion worth of gold in his house and all we need to do is kill him to get to it.
I mean, really: https://www.rt.com/uk/227035-foreign-intervention-oil-reserves/
I don't usually cite rt, but they got this one right.
I doubt that the west will support an independent Kurdistan after all this. If NATO walks away with an allied government in Syria they have no reason to. If they don't, then they have bigger problems.
>>55689057
Saudis are in power and left alone by the nmedia because, just like the USA, they are israels bitches.
take a look at Yemen for fucks sake. They are doing israels bidding and it has nothing to do with Saudi interests other than having great western media PR and a license to do whatever the fuck they want in their own country.. chopping hands, banning women from public places and molesting Philippino maids
This from a report from the European Parliament:
>The recruitment process started with JuD, AKF and JeM organisations selecting and approaching
families in difficult economic conditions and with several children; preferably male aged between 8 and
12. Then they were introducing Deobandi/Ahl al-Hadith religious leaders (mawlānā) to the families.
These mawlānā were then convincing families that their poverty was caused by their deviation from the
“true Islam”, due to their following of the Sufi creed. To return to the “right path” they had to offer one
or two of their sons to the cause of Islam. This meant that Deobandiand/Ahl al-Hadith mawlānā were
offering families to educate their children in their madrasas and to give them employment afterword;
either as clerics or as jihadists. In the latter case, a compensation of about $ 6.500 per son was given to
the family for each “martyred” son. About 200 madrasas with less than 100 students each have been
established for this purpose in the villages of Multan, Bahawalpur, and Dera Ghazi Khan in eastern
Punjab, while the northern village of Gujranwala has more than 500 (Walsh, 2011). Once the
indoctrination was completed, some of the students were sent to jihadi training camps in FATA and
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (NWFP) or to act as suicide bombers in targeted areas.
Link:http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2013/457137/EXPO-AFET_ET(2013)457137_EN.pdf
>>55689325
Troops on the ground to fight ISIS... NOT Assad. That will be the pretext.
>>55685943
It's meant to draw France into a ground war with ISIS so that Russia/Assad to not completely conquer all of Syria. In effect it is to save the asses of ISIS leadership from an even stickier end in some Damascus torture chamber.
TL;DR The goal is to achieve a western mandate over hald of Syria.
>>55689455
Thanks for the link. Hadn't considered this angle, but it no doubt factors in. Nonetheless, I think Syria's oil reserves are probably smaller scale in comparison to other motivating factors (pipelines, and, most important, removing a key Iranian ally).
Remove Assad, further disempowering Iran in the region - it also means China and Russia need to play ball with America and Europe.
>>55688438
Go to r/conspiracy and look at the sticked megathread. All the ACTUAL evidence you'll ever need that shows proof ISIS is Israel and US created.
>>55686317
I don't care if it's a false flag or not. I think it's more for liberals who don't want the invasion of Syria. So you may be right, but either way I still get what I want #NoKebab
>>55690091
That seems about right.
>>55685943
I don't know why they chose France.
>>55690283
Interesting
If you buy into the whole strategy of tension thing, this is the logical mid game of the destabilisation of the Middle East: The creation of a new enemy that the Free World (tm) can ally against.
From the ISIS/Islamist perspective, this serves to destroy free societies by weaponizing their lack of a monoculture and turning the different subcultures against each other. This also leads to a militarization of Muslims who were uninterested in all of this, since they potentially get caught up on the outside of a terrified non-Muslim public, having no choice but to forego their faith or join with the only group that's still open to them: the Extremists.
In the end, the tension that's been created, no matter by whose design, will be used to increase government surveillance and militarize countries whose citizens were formerly against such measures.
>>55690321
London's had 7/7 bombings
Madrid's had the train bombings
NY 9/11
>Paris' turn
>>55685943
Chaos by design.
Classic problem reaction solution. personally i hope Europe goes medieval on the shitskins.
>>55690321
Can only speculate. Syria was a former colony of France. The French have been very vociferous about intervening in Syria and removing Assad and his government. Perhaps the answer lies somewhere there?
>>55690321
Paris is comparably active in wars in the Middle East.
>>55686317
>One, boots on the ground in Syria. I'm talking a full-scale invasion, much larger than Iraq was.
Won't happen, no one has the stomach for another Middle Eastern war. You're going to have some serious discussions about removing SOME refugees, but not all, which won't come to fruition because the West still is moralistic without any guiding wisdom, but on a positive note some countries will get a full Nationalist government- maybe Sweden, and some skandi countries. France, Germany, and the UK will not change.
Why would anyone expect them too, they've suffered from Muslim attacks in the past but they still march on to their progressive utopia.
>>55690487
Another thing to consider is that almost all the fighting going on in the middle east (Syria, Iraq, Yemen) is between muslims themselves - Shia and Sunni.
And then there's the fact that you have powerful families and cliques outside the region who have interests in supporting certain sections engaged in the fighting.
>>55691369
The problems with boots on the ground in Syria are numerous:
1. Since Russia and "the West" aren't of one mind about how a postwar Syria is supposed to look like, there is a lot of potential for a really fucked up war.
2. Considering the IS strategy, boots on the ground don't really mean a lot unless you're also willing to depopulate entire villages if you suspect them of harboring IS. Otherwise you just end up miring your quag for a few decades.
what the fuck even happened? the only thing i saw until now was some headline of a terrorist attack in paris. im serious, i havent heard anything about it yet.
According to german news, bavarian police arrested a man from montenegro with guns, ammo and explosives which (were professionally hidden in his car). That guy was apparently on his way to France according to the documents he had with him. They immediately informed France about this.
Wanna know when they arrested him? Last Thursday :D
>>55691879
You're right but this is logistics you're discussing, I am referring to in general Westerners are tired of going into the Middle East to fight. This is partly I presume why so many Americans support Putin sending troops, "let them do it".
Why even go to the Middle East when the problem is the Muslims within your own state.
>>55692190
Remember that shipping container full of weapons they found in Greece?
>>55685943
After they shot down the Russian plane I guess Russia is willing to work together to kill ISIS now.
>>55692286
I would argue that the problem of getting the support of your population for war atrocities like the execution of civilians on suspicion of collaboration with the enemy is beyond a logistics problem.
>>55689526
You really think Israel is the boogeyman here? If they had as much influence as you describe we would have seen a coordinated invasion of Iran decades ago. That hasn't happened yet.
I worry not about the refugees, but their future children.
Will they be easily radicalized over the Internet by Isis? One of the suicide bombers in France was FIFTEEN.
So if the refugees children hate it in Europe/elsewhere, are discriminated against, feel unwelcome or lost because their parents are poor, what's stopping them from joining a terrorist group?
We can't let it go that long where it effects these young refugee children. And we need to educate them on how batshit insane Isis is and how that's not any way to live.
Isis has propaganda. Where is ours that ridicules Isis? Where are interviews of people that have JOINED AND LEFT Isis because it was horrific? We need that type of propaganda out there that will help save us from another attack like this.
Wiping out Isis wouldn't hurt either. Sure that's what they want - they want the west to come to Syria and they all have hardons for that to happen for some reason. We need to sandwich them in from both sides of Syria and pick them off one by one. Send them in so heavily armed that Isis shits their pants and our men have a good chance of getting home.
That's how I see it.
>>55690321
-France has been trying to scale up their military, compared to the rest of Europe which has been trying to demilitarize
-Paris is still considered to be essentially the jewel of the western world
-Syria was a former colony of France
>>55691369
>Won't happen, no one has the stomach for another Middle Eastern war.
Why do you think Paris was attacked in the first place?
What you said was true two days ago. It isn't anymore.
In the eyes of the world, ISIS has launched a direct attack upon the western world's most beautiful city. Whether or not that's even true is irrelevant. There will be no shortage of support for the war when France actually announces it's moving in.
And besides, a LOT of people would make a LOT of money if NATO collectively went to war with Syria. I'm honestly surprised this didn't happen earlier.
>>55692028
160+ dead, whole city was practically a warzone yesterday. Largest and most coordinated attack in recent European history.
>>55692455
Russia isn't willing to work together, just like they weren't willing to work together in Bosnia. They're gonna show up for the fight, but pretend like they're not really on our side.
