Jesus was a pretty radical socialist, wasn't he?
I'll bite.
No, he wasn't.
Also
>Claim to be Christian
>Have profanity in your avatar
wewlad
>>55491713
Jesus isn't bound by scarcity
>>55491713
He wasn't fucking political at all jesus christ wtf I hate when people fucking say this
So someone who is God incarnate who wants to love and spread joy and peace to people means he is a socialist? Because he preached that rich men can't get to heaven? The bible is allegorical. It's not meant to be taken literally. If all these people are getting from it is that Jesus was a socialist then they aren't reading it very well.
>>55491713
>>55491713
No.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say, 'jedidiah sat on his couch, and God blessed him in all he did'.
You and Bry-bry should read the Bible before judging what's in it.
If Jesus was a socialist, how come socialism doesn't work?
>>55491931
Damn it, NZ.
Just when I thought I had you pegged.
Thank you.
>>55491713
No, he wasn't socialist. But he emphasized many of the values that are imposed by socialism.
>sharing is caring
>give your material goods to others
>love everybody, especially your enemies
etc.
He certainly would agree with the above statements before endorsing the self-serving elements of capitalism.
>>55492060
Really would Jesus throw you in prison if you did not give hime 80% of your income?
>>55491713
Jesus said sharing was good.
Socialism isn't really sharing, it's more like being forced to share at gunpoint. You're not really sharing out of care for your fellow man if you're forced to do it by the state.
>>55492015
No problem Ameribro
>>55492109
never said that
read my post again
>>55492060
>values that innate in being a good person
fixed that for you
>>55492239
>giving away all your shit makes you a good person
sounds rather Jewish
>>55491713
Nope.
He was at best an Essene style theological communitarian.
>>55492146
i kek'd at your pic
Id gladly give 10%
70%? Not so much.
False prophet. Wolf in sheep's clothing.
>>55492060
In the first book of the NT, THE FIRST BOOK, Jesus said he comes with a sword.
Go away.
>>55492362
spotted the muslim
>Rioting against banksters
>Being an edgy anti-Israel bigot
>Spoiled unemployed brat with a powerful dad
Sounds like a pinko to me
>>55491900
I'll never understand religionfags. You just do whatever you want and when the Bible tells you not to, you ignore it. Why not just be atheist? Less hypocrisy.
Remember all those bible stories were jesus uses force and government to take the wealth of the evil rich guys and distributes it to the poor and needy. Throughout the bible we can read how he imposes his will on others with force and shuts down all criticising opinion with violence.
Jesus truely is a socialist
>>55492499
Wait a second Singapore, you said you didn't understand religion! You're clearly the premier philosophical mind of the generation, don't put yourself down so much.
>>55491713
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Definite communist, he wanted equal distribution of wealth.
Spreading a message of love, respect, equality and harmony is socialism?
Wew lad
>>55492586
Jesus was against greed and usury.
He talked of the rich man that would, at the expense of others, get richer.
He also warns people against usury.
He wasn't a communist at all. Communism is the warping of western values to suit a pro-proletariate narrative, which at the expense of others (in this case the rich people) aims to increase the wealth of poorer people.
>>55492499
Dude, it's impossible to live a life free of sin.
We try, some of us try our best.
>>55492585
I don't understand religious people who contradict their Holy Book.
>>55492109
Most taxes go to fund welfare, social security et cetera. Assuming /pol/ is Christian, why does /pol/ keep wanting to cut welfare
>>55492123
Yup.
Jesus didn't go around telling people to give to the government that eventually killed him. He preached taking your success and sharing it among those who need it. Need being the most important word.
I will never understand this democrat narrative of "Jesus was a socialist".
"KEEP GOD OUT OF YOUR POLITICS"
"JESUS WAS A SOCIALIST"
Pick one, and Jesus didn't force people at gunpoint to fund stupid shit.
>>55491713
Seems legitimate. Christianity and Marxism are both different forms of slave morality, after all.
>>55491713
"Jesus answered, If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor" Matthew 19:21
Yes, Jesus was a socialist
>>55491713
Yeah, he was totally all "Give your shit to Rome such that Rome can give it to the poor."
>>55492677
Probably something to do with the abuse of the welfare by certain collectives of people.
That's called a welfare culture.
Also, commiting sin isn't contradicting the holy book, the wrongdoings of man are to be judged by God. We are all born in sin, and through a righteous life with religion we can help avoid commiting sin, or find forgiveness when we commit it if we really do regret it.
God forgives.
>>55491900
>Because he preached that rich men can't get to heaven?
People miss the point of that. He says that it's extremely difficult for the rich to get into Heaven of their own accord, but through him anyone can.
>>55492676
That's not the point. The point is that you people cherry-pick shit from the Vible and interpret it any way you want so that your actions are always justified.
>>55492792
*Bible.
>>55491713
America lives on a duality of jesus being pure and socialism being evil. sex is wrong but it rules over everything in our lives. greed is wrong but we spend constant hours making it.
face it, Christianity is all about rationalizing your supressed degenerate thoughts and making it okay because of god.
>>55491713
He was a literal communist anon. Look at the original christian communes before constantine made it a statist religion.
>>55492730
Who did he say that to?
If the rich man is an asshole, it applies.
Know your target before you pull the trigger.
The same sentiment applies to the camel-needle scenario. A rich Roman in Israel is a bad guy.
>>55492677
Religion isn't about following rules that are clearly nothing more than old wives tales and ancient superstitions. Christianity is not about blindly and unquestioningly believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible. It's about finding God and having faith, not mindless obedience to a book. You follow the rules that make sense to you and your personal interpretation, not the weird random stuff like no meat and dairy.
I'm not even religious senpai, this stuff is day one basics.
>>55492851
I think you and a lot of other people in this thread misunderstanding communism and socialism.
Sharing is voluntary.
Communism and socialism are not.
>>55492792
Because the Bible isn't a howto manual.
You can literally find any viewpoint you want.
Why not read it before you condemn it? Your civilization is based on it. You aren't literate if you haven't read it.
>>55492883
>I'm not even religious senpai, this stuff is day one basics.
Asking for logic in a religious debate? Don't think so. People will just take shit out of context or make bold statements like >>55492792
Where any person with an ounce of brain will know that religion isn't or shouldn't be mental slavery where you obey as you're told from a book thousands of years old. It's moral guidelines through which better ourselves.
But you couldn't ask a godless commie that.
>>55492848
Everything you said about America is stupid and wrong.
>sex is wrong
WTF is wrong with you? Did you get beaten for masturbating?
>greed is wrong
In your socialist circles it may be. We aren't majority socialist yet, champ.
>>55492792
Bad Christians do this. Most people are bad Christians. God even said "narrow is the path" or something. Not everyone goes to heaven lol.
>>55491900
>jesus wasn't political
So basically any policy stance is not political as long as you don't say i'm <insert party here>
>jesus didn't say da gubbamint should force everyone to do x, just that everyone should do x or literally go to hell
wew lad
>>55492904
>Because the Bible isn't a howto manual.
There are literal commandments in the book. Saying that it's up for interpretation is just another example of what you people do. The Bible is pretty fucking clear about some things, saying that they're up for interpretation is just another way to dodge the rules you dislike.
"Why don't you read it"
I was raised Catholic, believe me, I've read it.
There are two kinds of people. Selfish people (60%) and selfless people (30%). To belittle Christ is to belittle God Himself. His was not political. But to twist His Holy Word on our Sorceror machines to mean anything less than the modern definition of socialism then yes yes I think you might be a little insane. Give to Caesar and to God. Camels. Eyes of needles. Mixing money with prosthletising and tropes about reciprocity. Made friends with anybody. The Christian way is to go against many of the notions of the right wing
>>55492981
>Canadian education
>>55492981
Not exact ratios, obviously lol
>>55492979
The tenets of christianity come from the rules god gave to the peoples to make their lives better.
In the ten commandments, any sane person would see the theological equivalent of today's laws. That doesn't mean we must follow them 1:1 today or go to hell, as everything in religion, there's room for adaptation and interpretation.
And still, I don't see anything wrong in god telling people "thou shall not kill".
>using religion to support your retarded beliefs
Both sides are dumb. I'm sure Jesus would approve of you shitposting on Twitter™ with your Galaxy 5™
>>55493019
Einstein was a socialist :)
>>55493046
>there's room for adaptation and interpretation
Where in the Bible does it say that? I think the rules were pretty fucking clear.
considering how charitable people of faith are in current circumstances, i can only imagine how charitable they would be if they weren't forced to give up a good portion of their income towards inefficient ineffective government programs and the salaries to run said programs.
Force is not charitable nor would Jesus ever support anything of the sort.
>>55493062
>60 + 30 = 100
>>55493093
Why should it be there? It is basic to understand anything in life, to know that there is room for different interpretation and adaptation to the situations that may occur.
Only children, idiots and zealots think in black and white. And that's why they're considered idiots by the rest of sane people.
The difference here, is that you want to be overzealous in the meaning of religion and what it should be understood as.
In short, you're an idiot for thinking we need to listen 1:1 to the things that were written on a book thousands of years ago. And not use it as a moral code through which better ourselves and the people around us, and through which achieve a more harmonic state in life, and a possibility of an afterlife with a righteous life.
So much for being raised a catholic, you missed the entire point of religion.
>>55492792
I don't cherry pick.
I know that every time I fap I'm sinning. I also don't want to end up with testi cancer.
I'm not out killing and stealing or being a piece of shit in general.
I be the best I can be, I love God, and I try to show people the way towards the light.
The Bible has so many lessons and yes, obviously people will have different interpretations. That is inevitable.
The Bible also has many instances were it spoke of things which turned out to be scientific fact.
My faith was established is belief, I always knew it was true, I couldn't reason it at the time, but I've come to be able to reason it with evidence.
>>55492688
The problem is republiturds DON'T keep god out of their politics, so as long as they're legislating based on their skydaddy's commandments, they could at least try to be authentic.
>>55492060
Voluntarily doing this stuff is different from the government forcibly taking your money and redistributing it.
>>55493252
>I've come to be able to reason it with evidence.
And what would that be?
>>55492952
I'm talking about the bible retard. learn 2 scripture. Lust and Greed are Two (2) of the seven deadlies.
>WTF is wrong with you? Did you get beaten for masturbating?
Only by myself, repeatedly, anon
>>55493176
>>55493032
Sorry Dad
>>55493306
I'll give you a few.
1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
Hebrews 11:3
2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.
3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).
I have more. I'm sure you will have questions though so fire away.
>>55493330
>7 deadly sins
>bible
Piss of and suck the Pope some more.
>>55493445
>this moron doesn't know fucking shit about anything
>religious
Fitting. Only read the first point. We can already detect individual atoms, look up quantum computing. We've known for a hundred years that atoms aren't the smallest particles out there, either.
>>55493582
I didn't say anything about them being the smallest particles. Clearly you didn't read it.
We can detect them, obviously, I say that at the very beginning of the point. Again, you didn't read.
>hundreds of years
Please.
You are a joke.
>>55493646
>i didn't say anything about atoms
yes you did, read your post dipshit
>hundreds of years
i said A HUNDRED YEARS, i.e. early 1900's. read MY post, you illiterate sheep of a person
>>55491713
>Jesus was a pretty radical socialist, wasn't he?
Jesus
>founds the biggest religion in the world
>makes Europeans not kille ach other anymore
>Europe, under Christian influence, proceeds to dominate the world
>America, under Christian influence, dominates the world after Europe, unquestionably
Socialism
>After a few decades, break down in chaos and genocide
>Every fucking time
By their fruits shall ye know them.
>>55493445
Jesus fucking Christ, fucking religion fuckers. Holy fucking shit.
Trying so hard to validate your belief. But hey, you all do that and it's hilarious.
>>55493701
>That post
Dude wat
>>55493701
>I didn't say anything about them being the smallest particles
Indeed, sorry for making it plural.
>>55493701
>>55493820
Already out of arguments? Well... that's non-Christians for you.
Not really.
He just beat up some jews.
Radical socialists killed millions.
Although I guess there's that going to hell thing.
>>55493820
Everything I just mentioned is scientific fact.
The Bible spoke of it before anyone else.
Care to actually make an argument? Or are you just going to throw around insults like an edgy teen and curse because you are incapable of forming any intelligent thing to say?
>>55491713
Jesus said "if you're a good person, you might consider giving to charity."
Socialists say "we're going to take your money at gunpoint, whether you like it or not."
Totally a Bernie supporter, though.
>>55493847
Thats because its completely useless to argue with you people. I personally dont give a fuck what you believe either way, though.
>>55494011
This is partially true.
Every argument I pose of God has basis from scientific fact.
You can't argue with that.
God is real.
Causality is all you need to explain that much.
>>55493904
>>55493904
>before anyone else
>the vague concept that what is visible with the naked eye is not all there is to the world
'Kay. They must've been geniuses almost on the level of greeks, those goatfuckers
You're still a moron for mentioning atoms in that post and claiming they're invisible.
>point about circumcision
Which do you think is more likely, that the jew tribe has been cutting their toddlers' dicks up for hundreds of years and figuring out which babies bled out and which didn't and then wrote it down in their book, or that GAWD told them to do it and when to do it, and only then did they start?
>the earth point
four corners of the earth are mentioned in the bible, as well as a reference to it as a circle (in both cases flat), the stars are thought to have been holes into heaven, and to get to your actual point, "hanging" is not the same as orbiting a star, which is in turn orbiting a galaxy, which is flying away from all other galaxies never mentioned in the bible, and speeding up in doing so.
Oh I didn't know Jesus preached about state owned production, coerced wealth distribution and a dictatorship if the proletariat. Silly me thinking he just asked his disciples to live by his charitable example.
Bill Gates, ardent Capitalist success story, lives a life much closer to what Jesus taught on wealth than any Socialist.
>this shit again
Jesus preached that the rich should give to the poor, but there is a difference between choosing to give and being essentially being squeezed for protection money with government intimidation. If it wasn't done willingly, it doesn't count.
>>55491713
Jesus was for personal charity, not forced distribution.
Youre 1 not allowed to force other people to give their money and 2 money taken from you is not a charitable giving.
>>55494116
The one argument I've never seen answered in any respectable way:
What created the universe?
If god created the universe then what created god?
If god doesn't need a creator then why does the universe?
>inb4 "well you see god is god therefore god is god. So god."
>>55491760
Where does it mention not using profanity in the bible?
>>55494368
But Jesus did say to render unto Caesar
>>55494214
Atoms are invisible you retard.
>circumcision
You can't prove your ideal either. I know that mine is correct because it's the word of God.
>earth
Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.
Job 26:10
He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
God inscribes a circle separating light and dark because the Earth is round.
A circle is only a 2-Dimensional representation of a sphere.
Why do people assume socialism has a monopoly on charity and helping people?
>>55494444
>Atoms are invisible you retard.
The American education system ladies and gentlemen.
>>55494375
Because it would lead to infinite regress.
The first cause argument.
God is the first cause.
If God needed to be created whatever created God would need to be created so on forever.
The Universe was created, or caused is a better term which even Atheists will agree with. The Universe just didn't pop into existence, it doesn't happen. It is physically impossible. It was caused, more so created.
There needs to be a first cause, other wise time wouldn't exist, as it wouldn't have a start. We know the the Universe had a start, a cause.
>>55492883
>I'm not even religious
>but I'm going to lecture you about what it's like to be religious anyway for some reason
>>55494532
Atoms cannot be seen in visible light because they are too small to reflect light in the visible frequency range. The wavelength of visible light is too long to meaningfully interact with atoms, so it cannot be bounced back to an observer in a coherent way.
Dumb ass.
>>55491713
If you want to get all subjective, Christianity is just Buddhism with a mysticism appeal.
>>55494116
If youre happy being christian then be the best christian possible, however the only thing causality proves is that there is rime and reason to the universe. This could potentially explain the existance of a diety but i wouldnt know. Neither do you, no matter what you might say.
>>55494444
Atoms are visible, friend. Literally everything you see are atoms.
>>55494581
If only there were some way atoms could bond together to make up larger objects.
Recently a new word has appeared in cosmological literature: multiverse. You won't find it in the dictionary, because it contains a contradiction in terms: multiple universes. By definition, the universe is supposed to include everything. One cannot have multiple everythings. The story of how this new word came about reveals the desperation of atheists trying to escape overwhelming evidence for design.
Naturalists want to explain the universe as a necessary outcome of laws and initial conditions, instead of a "roll of the dice." The Big Bang theory, inflation, and the search for structure in the cosmic background radiation are all part of this tradition. Everyone knows the universe looks designed. The design argument took on renewed urgency in the 1930s when quantum physicists realized that certain constants, like the force of gravity and the charge on the electron, could have taken arbitrary values—yet most values would never produce a universe with atoms, stars, planets, or observers. The universe appears finely tuned for our existence. To naturalists, this looks disturbingly unnatural.
One early escape from the design inference was the so-called Anthropic Principle. In its weakest form, it dismissed design by saying that if the laws and constants weren't what they are, we wouldn't be here to worry about the question. Stronger forms have asserted that our existence determines the laws of physics, or even that we create the universe by existing to observe it. Needless to say, most naturalists have dismissed such speculations as metaphysical fluff. The Anthropic Principle became a spent fad by the 1990s.
>>55494402
>But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.
Colossians 3:8
>>55494581
Why does it have to be visible by us, you retarded burger? Look up atom art, it's possible to see a single atom or their arrangement.
>if i don't see it by squinting real hard it's invisible
whatever, i'm done, you're a class A moron
Socialists:
>Give away your money to help the poor or you'll end up in jail
Jesus:
>Give away your money to help the poor or you'll end up in hell
>>55494597
>>55494621
Atoms are invisible energy which come together to form matter.
Try harder Australia.
Were my quads really not enough for you?
>>55494544
>>God is the first cause.
You said you arguments were based on science.
Where' your scientific proof of this claim?
>If God needed to be created whatever created God would need to be created so on forever.
So you completely deny the possibility of anything existing in eternity? On what scientific evidence have you based that?
>There needs to be a first cause
Prove it.
> other wise time wouldn't exist
Eternal time doesn't mean times doesn't exist.
> We know the the Universe had a start, a cause.
No we don't.
We only know the OBSERVABLE universe originated from one point. As far as we know space and time go on for ever and we have no idea what's going on beyond 14 billion light years away.
tl;dr don't pretend your claims are based on science when it's all hollow sophistry to fellate your own ideas.
>>55494375
you're arguing against yourself then because it goes both ways dingus
if the universe doesn't need a creator then why does god?
>>55494581
So what you actually mean is atoms can't be seen with the naked eye?
I could see an argument for why dark matter is invisible, not atoms, since with technology we can clearly see them.
>>55494701
>>55494597
>>55494621
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/26/science/atom-by-atom-scientists-build-invisible-machines-of-the-future.html?pagewanted=all
>That ability, while now very crude, might one day allow people to build almost unimaginably small electronic circuits and machines, producing, for example, a supercomputer invisible to the naked eye.
Atoms are essentially invisible unless under a magnification of 1 billion times or so.
>>55494729
I couldn't see your quads because my monitor is made up of atoms and therefore invisible
>>55493252
>The Bible also has many instances were it spoke of things which turned out to be scientific fact.
Such as?
>>55494758
If the universe doesn't require a creator, then why do we need god to create the universe?
If the universe does require a creator why doesn't god?
>>55494793
Essentially invisible != invisible for fucks sake.
>>55494758
Because the argument for god RELIES on the idea that the universe ***NEEDS*** a creator
The opposite is not true.
The universe being created doesn't not ***NEED*** your god.
>>55494834 said it more eloquently
>>55492981
And 100 % reason to remember the name...
Christ
>>55494544
Precisely...
Time as we know it does not exist. We simply count what we perceive to be rotations of celestial bodies. There does not need to be a first creation. You can't just just god is OG cause I can't handle the vast fucking reality of an infinite span of existence.
>>55492730
> IF
If you haven't noticed. Jesus wasn't a socialist, he didn't envision a system where people are forced to share what they produce with others.
>>55494754
I call the first cause God. Regardless there was a first cause. I call it God, I can't prove it was God.
see this
>>55494685
Only a small bit of what is a much larger argument.
The only thing Eternal is God. The causes would extend infinitely backwards because there would always need to be another cause.
We know for a fact that the Universe was "born, "caused", I say created.
>There needs to be a first cause
Look up causality, it's fundamental in physics.
No cause, no effect.
Time is a measurement. It needs to have a start and an end. Modern scientists already have spoken about the "heat death" the Universe will face. Eternity doesn't exist.
Yes, we do. See Big Bang Theory, this is the widely accepted model by most Atheists and Evolutionists to explain how the Universe was born.
No we don't. As most evolutionists and Atheists say, our Universe is only 13~billion years old.
It had a start.
Clearly you don't know anything.
>>55494922
>If you don't give your shit away you'll go to hell
Sounds an awful lot like
>if you don't give your shit away you'll go to jail
>>55494544
>The Universe just didn't pop into existence, it doesn't happen. It is physically impossible.
But god did apparently.
>>55494950
>We know for a fact that the Universe was "born
Nope, for all we know the universe is eternal.
Just because we have 0 fucking idea and probably never will have what was before the big bang if there even was anything, doesn't mean that there wasn't anything for sure.
>>55494715
Are you kidding me?
Solomon was the richest man in the Bible and he was chosen by God.
God has no problem with blessing people with wealth, as long as God stays as the most important thing.
>>55494775
We can actually see dark matter though.....
The only reason we know it exists is because we observed it....
>>55494834
First cause.
Causality, fundamental laws of physics. See also: infinite regress, it's impossible when it comes to beings by the way.
Also, what came first, the chicken or the egg?
So on so forth.
There needs to be a first uncaused cause.
>>55494910
Yeah....... that's why all scientists agree that our Universe has a definite age..... indicating it had a start.
>>55493268
you're right in a sense. Our signature retard Ben Carson bases his tax plan on tithing. But, assuming for a second that opposition to abortion is from a scientific and moral standpoint, at what point do Americans incorporate the judeo-Christian laws to American government? Hard mode: no Israel
>>55494950
>>see this
>proceeds to ignore everything I just told him he got wrong
>The only thing Eternal is God
Prove it.
> The causes would extend infinitely backwards because there would always need to be another cause.
Eternity is what science points to. There's no reason to believe the infinite is impossible.
>We know for a fact that the Universe was "born, "caused", I say created.
No, we fucking don't.
>There needs to be a first cause
>applying basic physics to the scale of the entirety of space and time
It doesn't fucking work like that.
etc etc
You don't know nearly as much as you think you do.
A common problem with your types.
>>55494686
Oh didn't realize that, thanks.
>>55495047
Well then Jesus came along.
Matthew 19:24
>Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
>>55495045
Yes.... we do.
http://www.livescience.com/1774-greatest-mysteries-universe.html
> According to the standard Big Bang model, the universe was born during a period of inflation that began about 13.7 billion years ago. Like a rapidly expanding balloon, it swelled from a size smaller than an electron to nearly its current size within a tiny fraction of a second.
Initially, the universe was permeated only by energy. Some of this energy congealed into particles, which assembled into light atoms like hydrogen and helium. These atoms clumped first into galaxies, then stars, inside whose fiery furnaces all the other elements were forged.
sigh.....
http://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html
>>55494950
>evolutionists
Do you believe in creationism?
>>55495096
> posting a single verse
Let me help you:
"16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first."
Read the passage slowly.
Magic mushrooms anyone?
>>55495075
Do you know what astrophysics are?
You'll learn when you get out of fucking high school.
You are so beyond dense I'm not even going to bother anymore. I addressed all of your points.
Try arguing with the post I directed you to.
>No, we fucking don't
See the Big Bang.
It is used to explain the creation of the Universe without God.
We do know.
You are too stupid.
>>55491931
Socialists are unable to comprehend the difference between civil society and government. Just listen to any Obama speech and you'll hear him constantly conflate the two.
>>55495050
I think what you're missing is that the infinite regression problem applies just as much to this god fellow you're postulating to explain the origins of the universe as it does to the universe who's existence you're trying to explain, so you're not actually explaining anything. You're replaced one thing that popped spontaneously into existence with another thing that popped spontaneously into existence, how is that an improvement?
>Also, what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Egg.
>>55495150
Humans were created, yes.
There is very good scientific evidence of evolutionary organisms ranging from simple to complex.
Again, the chicken or the egg, which came first?
Just go to all my other posts.
I'm posting walls of text and people's arguments are just
>no
>no
>no
It's pretty sad.
>>55495219
This. Civil society is natural, government is artificial.
>>55495270
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
We got a fucking creationist here guys, a CREATIONIST!
Thanks anon I needed a laugh.
>>55495201
>Do you know what astrophysics are?
Yes, I do.
I know it much better than you claim to apparently.
Here's a prime fucking example:
>See the Big Bang.
As I already fucking explained....
>We only know the OBSERVABLE universe originated from one point. As far as we know space and time go on for ever and we have no idea what's going on beyond 14 billion light years away.
The big bang did not CREATE anything.
All of the matter and energy already existed in a theoretical state called the singularity.
One of the main characteristics of the singularity is that the basic laws of physics (like the laws of causality, for example) break down and no longer apply.
If you want to believe in god, that's fine and fucking dandy. I don't give a shit.
But don't fucking slander science with your childish and lazy attempts to seek credibility for your fairy tales.
>>55495131
Jesus fucking Christ dude.
The universe was born 13.7 billion years ago is the simplified version for retards.
Here's how it actually was.
13.7 billion years ago the universe was dense as fuck. ( not condensed to a single point or shit like that, that makes it seem like it is finite )
Then it started expanding, and the first things we could theoretically measure started appearing.
Before that point the concept of time is pointless, since we will probably never be able to measure anything that happened before that point.
This does NOT mean that there was nothing before that time.
Read something other than the big bang for dummies m8.
>>55495239
No, God is eternal.
There needs to be a first cause, we know this BECAUSE infinite regression is not possible and BECAUSE we know the Universe was born.
The egg huh?
So where did the egg come from?
If you don't understand after asking yourself that question, you are just a lost cause.
Charity=/=mandatory redistribution
good job on the bait thread straya
>>55495352
The last thing that we could consider not a chicken laid an egg, which had a few mutations or some shit, from which came the first thing that we could consider a chicken.
>>55495352
You can ascribe the same properties to the universe that you do to god.
If god could have always existed, then the universe could have too. You're making unjustified assumptions to justify the assumption you've already made.
"A new community is being built in the holy land and it is our most beautiful goal and aim. Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else. It is the luck to help which rewards those who commit themselves to this holy land, and this commitment must happen every new winter. Our social welfare system is so much more than just charity because we do not say to the rich people 'Please, give something to the poor.' Instead we say 'Hebrew people, help yourself!' Everyone must help, whether you are rich or poor. Everyone must have the belief that there's always someone in a much worse situation than I am, and this person I want to help as a comrade. If one should say, "Yes, but do I have to sacrifice a lot?" That is the glory of giving! When you sacrifice for your community, then you can walk with your head held up high." - Jesus
> Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.
So socialist.
>>55491713
Socialists never understood the difference between alms giving and weath redistribution, so why start now.
>>55495352
>BECAUSE we know the Universe was born.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/before-big-bang1.htm
A few theories about what was "before" the big bang
>>55495336
There must be some first cause.
Nothing just is, without a reason why it is.
Everything that exists has some adequate or sufficient reason why it exists.
This is known as the principle of sufficient reason.
We use it everyday.
In common sense, and in science as well as in philosophy.
If you saw a rabbit suddenly appear in front of you, you wouldn't say, "Well, hi there Rabbit. You came from no where didn't you.".
No. You would look for a CAUSE.
>>55495526
>There must be some first cause.
Says who? Ever heard of fractals? Wanna tell me what's at the infinitesimal scale of one?
>>55495346
Yes, exactly, AWAY from us.
Not BEHIND us.
It had a beginning point you fucking retard.
>>55491713
No he wasn't. There's a pretty huge difference between asking people to help their next one and forcing them under the threat of violence to "help" their next one
>>55495526
>he still thinks proper induction can be determined by sensory limited individuals
>>55492883
>not blindingly and unquestioningly believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible
But having faith in whatever interpretation you made up? That sounds the same.
The only value the Bible has is in the values in preaches, like benevolence and forgiveness. Faith is a load of bullshit. It's good to believe me without questioning anything. Believe me or you'll burn in hell. Believe me and you're a saint. Faith is not a virtue. Neither is "finding God", which is the same thing.
>>55495465
We know that the Universe HASN'T always existed. Holy shit.
>>55495436
Got stumped huh? The Chicken came first.
So what caused the Chicken? See infinite regress.
Like I have been saying this whole time.
>>55495515
>theories
>>55495563
>says who?
Issac fucking Newton says so and anyone with a fucking brain.
NO CAUSE, NO EFFECT.
>>55495636
Locally, it might have a beginning point. The problem is that the observable universe is probably just that, what's observable. In some billion years, the observable universe will just be our galaxy. That doesn't mean that's all there is or was. There are already several major theories that don't make unfounded assumptions, "A universe from nothing" by Lawrence Krauss is a book you can look into.
>>55495663
>thinking that induction seeks to provide absolute proof
>>55495636
Holy shit you really don't understand anything about any of this, do you?
I really don't know how I can dumb this down for you anymore than I already have but I'll give it a shot....
Imagine an inflated balloon.
From a point somewhere within the balloon all points elsewhere in the balloon are expanding away.
This says nothing about what's happening outside of the balloon.
If time went backwards and the balloon was reverted to its initial, inflated state (the singularity) this STILL says nothing about what's happening outside of the balloon.
Are you getting it yet?
>>55495526
Holy fucking shit are you seriously trying to argue physics with common fucking sense?
Common sense dictates the earth should be flat, because otherwise we would fall off.
Time being relative to how fast you're going sounds fucking retarded.
Quantum physics is next level retarded, I mean using common sense how the fuck can an object be in multiple places at once.
etc etc etc.
Just because some things seem reasonable from our everyday perspective, doesn't mean anything besides that they're useful for our everyday life.
Also causality is completely unprovable.
Just because every time something has happened something else followed, doesn't mean something else will.
This means induction is wrong, and if induction is wrong causality is also wrong.
( See the black swan theory )
Philosophy bitch
>>55495739
>Got stumped huh
How?
As I said the first chicken egg came from a creature that was not a chicken.
also
>Theories
Fucking EVERYTHING in science is a theory.
But "The universe was born with the big bang" is as valid as "The universe is eternal, and has been going through cycles of expansion and retraction"
There is 0 evidence for either, there probably will be 0 evidence for either.
>>55491713
He was an Essene which was basically a group of hippies who lived communally. In other words Jesus and his commune of hippies lived off the grid, which means he was a libertarian
>>55495739
>We know that the Universe HASN'T always existed. Holy shit.
Except we don't know that, you just assumed it.
Also, you're making claims about the observable universe, and we don't know that it's all there is either.
>isaac newton
mate, isaac newton thought god was pulling the planets on strings because he couldn't figure out third degree gravitational motion. isaac newton is hardly a scientific authority centuries later.
>>55492772
Welfare culture should be supported by any Christian following "love thy neighbour". That or a smarter way to use taxpayer dollars to help people. Admit it, you don't want welfare so you don't have to pay taxes.
It's implicitly contradicting it, isn't it? Strictly the Bible is just a record of events that happened. But Christianity says it's more, the basis of their beliefs. If you claim it to be your spiritual guide to life how can you contradict it?
>>55495807
>initial, uninflated state
fixt
whoops
>>55495755
>Krauss
That book should have been named "a universe from...equivocation".
There are numerous other scholars, scientists, philosophers and theologians that have pointed out why the arguments in this book tell us nothing scientific. His arguments for nothing being defined as something are so irritating. Alas, he's quite comfortable with the illogical definitions.
Krauss, like his debating style, is prone to go off on tangents when arguing his point, be warned.
In order to follow his thinking you have to be prepared to hold the main gist of his point, while he waffles on about some anti-religion straw man, then pick up the answer to the point/question several paragraphs later.
>>55495800
I don't you understand what induction even means to begin with. Good luck determining causality or a prime mover when phenomenons cannot be trusted.
>>55495833
>in common sense, science, and philosophy
Strawman much?
There is absolutely no scientific evidence at all to support your theory on it came from something that wasn't a chicken.
That is basically your average Theist type of argument wouldn't you say?
Let me know when a fucking chinchilla comes out of a grizzly bear you crazy mother fucker.
There is nothing outside of the Universe, by definite the Universe is everything.
in to the trash you go
>>55493445
Science also "recently" discovered the sample size.
>write a book full of vague phrases
>some of them happen to be backed by science
>???
>profit
>>55495883
>philosophists and theologians telling an astrophysicist his books are nothing scientific
o i am laffin
still waiting for you to provide anything but baseless assertions
>>55495862
He is the only reason physics even exist.
Nothing we know now would be known without him. He is the most important scientist to ever live.
By the way, he was right about God and planets. We've only put a fancy explanation to it. We might as well be saying some MYSTERIOUS FORCE IS DOING IT.
They are one in the same.
>>55495964
It's a form of reasoning in which the premises supply strong evidence for the truth in the conclusion.
>>55495998
Don't forget
>scholars
>scientists
Strawman harder kiddies
>>55492669
So basically hd was anti Jew?
>>55495977
>vague
I wonder where they just came up with these random thoughts. Which just so happened to be true....
Let me know when you do such a thing faggot.
You never will so I won't wait on you.
>>55495807
see
>>55495967
>There is nothing outside of the Universe, by definition* the Universe is everything.
in to the trash you go
>>55495967
There is something observable we call evolution.
But anyways.
The chicken egg question is inherently stupid.
Your father was a human like you.
Your grandfather was a human like you.
Your great-grandfather was a human like you.
Your greatx100-grandfather was a human like you.
But was your greatx1000-grandfather a human like you?
What about greatx10000.
Exactly how many greats do we have to go back where your greatwhatever wasn't a human but his son was?
There isn't an answer to that question, since it's a fucking retarded question.
Things like species don't inherently exist, they're just arbitrary lines we've drawn in the sand to help us categorize nature, especially if you go back in time.
But if we take the arbitrary line we draw somewhere in the sand, we can get the last non chicken who laid the first egg from which came a chicken.
Happy now?
>>55496126
Tomorrow something will happen.
Do I get churches yet?
>>55496065
>He is the only reason physics even exist.
Someone else would have discovered what he did, being the "first" means literally nothing. The first mathematicians were shiteating illiterates.
>Nothing we know now would be known without him. He is the most important scientist to ever live.
Wew lad, your hyperbole is inflating by the second
>By the way, he was right about God and planets. We've only put a fancy explanation to it. We might as well be saying some MYSTERIOUS FORCE IS DOING IT.
We didn't call the same thing a mysterious force, we worked out the math that newton couldn't. He didn't call gravity god, the flawed calculations of his didn't allow for planets to stay in orbit so he just said god did it.
>They are one in the same.
If you're labeling god as just the forces of the universe, that'd be logically sound at least. But with the same breath you're denying evolution, dismissing all alternatives to your proposed cosmology out of hand, and claiming that your book is divine because it is.
Here is another fun one for you all.
The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
>>55495713
Faith is not bullshit. Soulless chink motherfucker
>>55496126
>Which just so happened to be true....
Yeah as evinced by that massive layer of sediment from that flood that covered the entire earth and caused all but certain species of animals to go extinct (no bugs though. They survived on their own I guess)
>that's just a parable maaaaaaaaaaan
>>55496182
>There is nothing outside of the Universe, by definition* the Universe is everything.
No, you don;t get to make up your own definitions to suit your argument.
Even IF that were the actual definition of the word (to be clear: it's fucking not) then I would just make the distinction between the OBSERVABLE universe (the balloon and the INOBSERVABLE universe (outside of the balloon)
Just admit you're fucking wrong instead of pathetically dodging and goalpost shifting yourself into a corner.
>>55496244
Okay, that great, now if you can use the bible to make a claim about science, BEFORE we prove it to be correct, I'll be happy.
Because iirc in the bible the Pharaohs magicians turned sticks into snakes.
>Cherry picking the bible:the thread
>>55492547
underrated
>>55496244
Are you seriously implying that all through man's history of hunting, gathering, fighting and war, that they didn't understand you can bleed to death? Fucking animals understand blood leaking out is bad. Go ahead and cut yourself. The basic instinctual reaction is to cover the wound and atop blood loss.
Get fucked.
>>55496206
No, it's not inherently stupid. You are just mad because it fucked you up.
Yeah, I already said there is very good scientific evidence for evolution as far as organic lifeforms ranging from simple to complex.
We have no fossilized evidence of everything that would need to have happened in between. Evolution is full of shit and relies on the uniformity of nature to get anywhere, which they have no basis for in principle.
The Bible speaks about it though.
So where did the first human come from?
>it was born from something else hur duu
No scientific evidence at all. You are saying the same thing I am, just a far more crazy and unlikely scenario.
>species don't inherently exist
If you keep going with your retard logic eventually nothing is going to inherently exist.
>>55496244
The process of bleeding understood the importance of blood as well they just misunderstood how to preserve it.
The idea behind bleeding was to bleed out the bad while keeping the good.
For someone who complains about strawmen so much your sure do a lot of it.
>>55496267
I agree, some kinds of faith are good. Faith in one another is the basis of civilisation and social groups. Faith in your wife stops your relationship from growing tense. Faith is good for diplomacy.
But faith that the entire universe loves you and will forgive whatever you do is lazy. Of course faith in the religious context usually means believing a bunch of stuff like "God has a plan" or "listen to us and you'll go to heaven". It's entitled to think everything happens because in the end it's going to be good for you and you have no reason to think it other than a fuzzy feeling it gives you.
>>55496206
The acorn & oaktree is more of a mental exercise than the answer to life's mysteries and a good way to explore how infinite regress was a dangerous argumentative tactic. Instead, aristotle believed the answered was the oaktree, as it is the only "complete" thesis capable of producing acorns as well as being de facto already a tree.
Essentially the answer is both tree&acorn, or chicken&egg. Now I know it does literally nothing for etiologyfags, but once again that was never the purpose of the paradox.
>>55495866
>dumb shit
Which part of the Bible had Jesus running around taking from and killing people who didn't listen to him?
>>55496338
Fucked me up.... how?
By saying that species AREN'T something arbitrary we as humans came up with to help us categorize nature?
If they aren't please give me the EXACT number of greats we need to go back so your great x Y grandfather isn't a human but your great x Y-1 grandfather is.
But you can't since it's fucking stupid, since any line we draw in the sand is completely fucking arbitrary, since the father and the son will be far closer to each other than to .
>>55496336
Then explain the whole first premise of my argument and how Doctor's would bleed sick people.
Get fucked?
More like way to make yourself look like a complete fucking retard.
>>55496308
the definition of the universe
>all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.
That's everything you dumb shit.
You have said so many things that are completely fucking wrong. I'm done with you now.
Grasp harder onto your Atheism retardation.
You are the one who is wrong. Let me know when you get out of high school.
>>55496308
>make a claim about science before
The Bible made many claims before, science only proved them.
You kiddies are very amusing.
Deny it all you want, I'm just trying to help you all.
>muh science hur durrr
Question everything. I'm pretty sure that is what Science is supposed to do. You are all just a different kind of brainwashed.
The only thing I don't question is the Bible. I never will.
I did at one point, until I learned a lot more about our Universe and how everything works.
Saying it was all possible by random chance is like saying if you put a trillion chimps in front of a computer one of them will by random chance type out all of Hamlet exactly.
You are the crazy ones.
Here is my claim that I will make, we will never discover another planet that can sustain human life.
>inb4 we already have hurrr durrr
They always say "may" be able to sustain human life.
I'll let you in on a little secret, when we do the fancy tests we will come to the conclusion that they cannot.
>>55496510
Where did the first human come from?
You got fucked kiddo you aren't even arguing now. You are only asking me for explanations of my explanations of why you are being stupid.
See you later.
>>55496356
Strawman?
No one presented an argument. That was my own original post for you faggots to bicker with me about.
Unfortunately you are all fundamentally retarded and essentially science deniers.
Later.
>>55496554
>Saying it was all possible by random chance is like saying if you put a trillion chimps in front of a computer one of them will by random chance type out all of Hamlet exactly.
But they would.
>>55496554
>Then explain the whole first premise of my argument and how Doctor's would bleed sick people
lel what a joker. it's called the idea of "bad blood"
are you seriously implying nobody knew we can't live without blood until it was written in the bible? as the anon said, even animals know bleeding is bad.
are you implying religious people are dumber than fucking monkeys?
>>55496489
I'm talking to you, not the government. Why do you object to giving welfare to people?
>>55496609
You misrepresented what bleeding was and why it was done in an absurd way to argue against it.
That's a strawman.
>>55496554
>we will never discover another planet that can sustain human life.
Okay cool.
So can you teach me the ways of finding scientific truths from the bible?
Don't want to spend my time trying to turn sticks into snakes, which the bible claimed was possible, even without divine intervention.
Also even though that reply wasn't for me can you please show me where you got that definition of the universe, since any reputable physicist would laugh at that definition.
>>55496609
>Where did the first human come from?
The first thing that is close enough to us to call "human" appeared 1-2 million years ago in Africa, but that is still completely arbitrary.
There is no exact point since EVOLUTION DOESN'T FUCKING WORK THAT WAY YOU FUCKING RETARD.
Also holy fucking shit, arguing with scientifically illiterate people is fun as fuck.
>>55496554
I can only assume you're trolling.
>>55496635
What you have just said is crazier than me saying God exists.
I hope you realize how fucking dumb you just made yourself look.
>implying a chimp would even come up with one legitimate word
Let alone an exact replica of Hamlet. For your sake, I hope you were trolling.
>>55496641
What I'm saying it was written in the Bible before bloodletting even became a thing you fucking retard.
Anyway, this is boring.
You are all crazy science deniers.
Friendly reminder that one of you said >everything in science is just a theory hurrr durrr
Fucking idiots.
>>55491713
Generous man in his personal life =/= Radical socialist
Radical socialism would be FORCING people to be "generous" with the threat of government violence. Jesus wouldn't do that.
>>55496641
>>55496836
Jesus forced people to be generous with threat of hell.
How is that different?
>>55496794
>What I'm saying it was written in the Bible before bloodletting even became a thing you fucking retard.
So? You implied that nobody knew blood is life, when it's obviously and demonstrably not the case. Bloodletting as a practice being a point aainst it is again YOUR point, and it's a strawman because the idea of it was never "drain ALL of their blood"
>Anyway, this is boring.
I think it's just getting interesting.
>You are all crazy science deniers.
>Friendly reminder that one of you said >everything in science is just a theory hurrr durrr
That's literally true, mouthbreather. Everything we know is tentative and subject to change. Absolute certainty is untenable as a concept.
>Fucking idiots.
Keep on trucking, daddyo
>>55496794
Assuming the chimps knew english, they would. Even if they mashed down on the type writer you would get Hamlet eventually. Go look up the Library of Babel. It's impossible for it NOT to happen, given enough time.
>>55496745
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/universe
I hope you just shut up now. You aren't even a scientist, you've already proven that.
ALL of you have already proven that you don't know shit.
>>55496718
HAH! How did I misrepresent it? I said they did it because they were sick. That is EXACTLY why they did it. I never argued against it either hahaha holy shit just shut up.
>>55496745
That's because evolution is true. If it was we would have several other stages of the T-rex "evolving" into a fucking chicken.
We still haven't found the "common ancestor" Humans and chimps "supposedly" evolved from.
You are the scientifically illiterate one.
>>55496762
I can only assume you have no argument to present because everything I said is true.
GRASP HARDER onto your atheism kids.
>>55496895
>forced
Top kek
>>55495739
>We know that the Universe HASN'T always existed. Holy shit.
It's an easy mistake to make because truth is so difficult to understand, especially when it's tied up in the enigma if physics, but we know (as best as our evidence can show) that the universe we can observe was once a single point but that doesn't mean that's how it "started". There's a subtle but big difference between thinking that's when it started as opposed to it being an event but not necessarily genesis ex nihilo. I like to believe the universe has always existed, it just 'is' and that the big bang was a reordering of energy and matter.
Before anyone attempts to use this as validation for a God not having to be created I'd say that there's no logical comparison. Having faith in the face if many different theories that are based on the quest for empirical experimentation is not the same as faith in something founded by an ancient story.
>>55496698
Hey idiot. Some of us spend thousands of dollars in charity for social welfare, because our Lord taught us to. We have no faith that the thousands the government steals from us every year is used for good causes like our charity does. They're apples and oranges, you'd say.
Here's a story for you. Mother in law works at the credit union. A credit union is mostly for poor people, the kind of people who call us and request a transfer of $0.50 from their savings account to their checking account. So, most of the women are on this welfare that you love so much. Every March-April, they frantically call looking for their tax return. That's right, despite making $2k-$4k in welfare benefits, they get about $12k in tax returns every year. This led to the term "nigger rich" in the 1990s. That's why so many of them love in shitty government houses but drive Escalades. If you think government welfare is used to take care of starving children, well, it just shows that you don't know a fucking thing.
>>55496897
No, that isn't what I said nor implied.
That is what your dumb ass inferred.
Again
>The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
>fully comprehended
sighhhhh
Do you? It's quite boring, none of you have refuted anything I've said, you just move on to something completely irrelevant once you lose.
It's not literally true, that's why we have the term empirical. Dip shit.
>>55496911
Sigh people actually believe this and I'm crazy for believing in God.
>>55491713
>Pay your taxes (Luke 20:20)
>Give your worldly possessions to charity (Matthew 19:21)
If by a radical socialist you mean someone who was fairly unconcerned with earthly problems of good redistribution and was concerned primarily with the afterlife.
>>55497002
You're assuming "full comprehension" of the blood from the words
>"For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
Justify your assumption.
>>55497000
>$2k-$4k monthly
Oops, fixed.
>>55497002
It's not believing, it's completely objective.
You'd have to be retardes not to "believe" it. Oh wait, you are.
>>55496913
>believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter
The observable universe is about 28 billion parsecs (91 billion light-years) in diameter at the present time
>Itzhak Bars; John Terning (2009). Extra Dimensions in Space and Time
>its creation
Can't be bothered, read my earlier posts.
So thanks for providing a definition that has two completely incorrect statements in it.
Anyways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahelanthropus
Pretty damn close to being our last common ancestor.
But since you didn't want the last common ancestor but just A common ancestor here's one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiadapis
>>55496940
NO CAUSE. NO EFFECT.
"it just is"
Sounds like what Theists say about God.
I love how all of your guys' last resort is to deny and say we aren't sure about the big bang
Almost everyone in the scientific community use the big bang to explain why our Universe is here. None of them think it just popped into existence.
Once a single point that only extends forward because of time. It doesn't go backwards. We only come forward from the point, there is nothing behind it.
Infinite regression is impossible.
Any scientist will tell you that our Universe was "born".
God is real.
>>55496895
Are you kidding me?
I mean, did you actually read the passage I posted here? >>55495185
I already told you before: David, Solomon and the faithful kings of Israel were all chosen by God and were blessed with riches.
In face, here is another passage:
>6 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the Leper, 7a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.
8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9“This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”
> 10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, “Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you,a but you will not always have me. 12When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
Again, read this slowly.
>>55497059
Again
>Do you? It's quite boring, none of you have refuted anything I've said, you just move on to something completely irrelevant once you lose.
>It's not literally true, that's why we have the term empirical. Dip shit.
You get fucked so you move on to something else.
Strawman again! How do you guys keep going.
>only in recent time was the great biological importance of our blood fully comprehended
This is just a fact you silly faggot.
I'm done. You guys are science deniers and I just find it hilarious.
>>55497136
>merriam webster
>implying the universe isn't expanding at such a rapid rate and wanting them to update it every second
Again, you kids get fucked so you try cover your stupid foot steps.
Nothing in between like there should be considering it takes many years for things to evolve.
You've lost. I only feel bad for you now.
>>55497209
Yeah, it was only recently fully understood, meaning the goatfuckers who wrotr the bible didn't understand it either.
Vague statements about blood being the life of the flesh mean nothing except that those goatfuckers had the basic idea of don't bleed out or you'll die.
>>55497321
>what basis do you make this assumption hurr durrr
Later kids.
>>55497142
What a shame you didn't read properly what I wrote, and what a shame how aggressive you seen to be about this. How do you account for all the unknowns and unexplainable behaviour of quantum mechanics? Physics isn't clean cut so you can drop your certainties my friend.
It does sound similar to what theists say about God but if you read my post you'd know there's a big difference between something always existing that we can observe and test versus something always existing that we cannot test (God) you do know this, right?
The matter of the fact is that the leap of faith is greater when saying god has always existed vs universe always existing because one has some empirical evidence and one has none.
If you want to go in circles and claim God can't be measured empirically then all you're doing is debating things that cannot be ever understood which is essentially useless. If God doesn't follow logic and cannot be measured then for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist, for how could we ever know? It's a useless analogy to compare God to the universe if you move the goal posts all the time.
>>55497283
Wait...
You think the universe has expanded 80 billion light years since when the definition of the universe was written for the Merriam Webster.
So you think that the definition of the Universe is old as fuck ( like billions of years old as fuck ) or that the universe expanded 80 billion lightyears in the past whatever small amount of years.
But you still think that, that definition is correct, and ignore all the scientific advances that have happened beyond the writing.
And you have the audacity to call me scientifically illiterate.
L
M
A
O
>>55497002
>blood is life
>fully comprehended
Wew lad
I fuess we should all start worshipping democritus & epicureans since they worked out atomism long before any prophets, or even believers, understood that
>>55491713
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tyixUGgVQE
>4:55
/thread
>"My kingdom is not of this world"
>>55497186
Okay so you don't actually have to give to the poor, but you need to get rid of your wealth one way or another or what?
It would be a lot easier if you just explained your thoughts and reasons for those thoughts to me, because I can't be bothered to think in depth about what could actually have been meant by those words.
>>55497494
Immanence vs transcendance dilemna, tbqh w y family
>>55497464
Strawman again!
You kids really don't stop.
Pretty sad.
>>55497417
And again!
sighhh
>2013
It's expanded even more sense then you shit lord.
>>55497142
I'm sorry, you're trying to assert something and not actually backing that up with shit, like priests from the beginning of time, you're talking out of your own arse in order to prop up the institution that most of your relatives have bought into.
If you assert something like that, prove it or get out of my way. Cretins that think magic is real are holding back our advancement as a species, and handling of this whole 'finite resources and infinite demand' shit.
I'm not asserting that it IS possible, but you factually do not know that infinite regression is impossible. Why is it the case that the universe can't exist?
FURTHERMORE, you supporter of dishonest charlatans, there is NOTHING about our universe that seems to necessitate a magical intelligent anthropomorphic immortal, which about as accurate a definition of a god as an outsider could ask for.
EVERY SINGLE PIECE of evidence we have examined points towards deitys and other supernatural events being the superstitions and myths of primitive cultures.
The fact exists, god, necessicarily is a magical being.
Magic.
Isn't
real.
You
Collossal
Faggot.
>>55497589
You don't get how this works, do you little guy? First you scream strawman, then you explain why it's a strawman.
>>55497589
You're legit retarded.
>arguing with someone in the campus fucking Chik Fi Le about communism
>dude had the audacity to go table to table to get people to support Bernie Sanders, handing out stickers and buttons
>ask him what he thinks about the millions that died under socialism or those that were politically executed under Stalin because they thought wrong thoughts
>qoute "its all capitalist pig propoganda, you should open your eyes sheeple"
>everyone within earshot of his statement starts chuckling to themselves, my table and I laughing audibly
>he and his group of friends run away, we get back to eating our Republican Chicken Sandwiches
>next day everyone gets an email from the Political Tolerance Group's President alerting everyone that laughing and persecuting students based on their political beliefs is against campus policy
what is with these people
>>55497589
Look mate, you are claiming that the universe expanded 80 billion lightyears in 2 years.
Does this mean that in another 2 years the universe will be 200 billion lightyears across?
Or does it mean that somebody with no knowledge of the big bang wrote the definiton for the that dictionary?
Here's a non retarded definiton.
>the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm.
From the dictionary.com
See how it doesn't make any false claims or have any provably false information in it?
So basically your entire argument is based on a false definition of the universe.
>>55497589
>point out obscure text that happens to seem true is not evidence of genuine scientific understanding or even discovery
>ITS A STRAWMAN
lol k
By the way, blood is not the source of life. Its the oxygen carrying haemoglobin within the plasma that is crucial. But blood is not anymore crucial than a liver, a spine, heart or nervous system. Remove any, and an individual will die.
You do realise it's thanks to verses like these that mad doctors were justifying their bleeding, by trying to remove bad humors right?
>>55497743
>the big bang is just a theory
>all science is just a theory
These are things you have said.
Then you bring up the big bang after you've said a million times that it doesn't explain anything and that it might not even be true.
>>55497830
In other words, oxygenated blood.
lmao
>>55497945
Elenchi ad ignoratio, family
Smdh
>>55497907
Do you have any idea what a theory is, scientifically?
>>55497907
And I stand by what I've said, as will any scientist.
>after you've said a million times that it doesn't explain anything and that it might not even be true.
Can you please show me where I've said those things?
Because I only recall saying, that we have 0 fucking clue what, if anything was before the big bang.
That's like if I had hollywood amnesia, I could say, what I ate for dinner today, but can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday.
Not remembering what I had for dinner yesterday, doesn't make me having dinner today any less true.
>>55497993
Craig and others have sought epistemic support for creation ex nihilo through the scientific evidence for Big Bang cosmology. Several converging lines of evidence have firmly established this cosmology, which is interpreted by most to require an absolute origination of the universe from nothing about fourteen billion years ago. Stephen Hawking, the renowned physicist, recently said that “Almost everyone now believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the Big Bang.”[1] Even the atheist Quentin Smith accepts that Big Bang cosmology entails that nothing at all existed before the first event of the universe.[2]
>>55498060
I just asked you what a theory is, non-sequitur spouting dipshit.
>>55498048
Well, then you must be retarded.
see
>>55498060
source is in pic related system thinks it's spam for some reason
>>55495047
Because people like Salomon wrote the Bible. Rulers don't have to give their money (tax evasion) ans stay rich, peasants have to chip in and make the show go on by not stocking capital but expending every little surplus of it to not be contenders for power.
Baisacally give away all your money and you will go to a perfect place called heaven, also give away your life in my army and you will be a martyr, other gods worshipped by other nations different from you are false and should be exterminated as a contingency of future wars with them etc ...
>>55498127
>Posting someones blog as proof that the universe had a beginning.
Yeah okay
Also
Here's Wakings thoughts on the matter beyond a simple quote
>The problem of what happens at the beginning of time is a bit like the question of what happened at the edge of the world, when people thought the world was flat. Is the world a flat plate with the sea pouring over the edge? I have tested this experimentally. I have been round the world, and I have not fallen off. As we all know, the problem of what happens at the edge of the world was solved when people realized that the world was not a flat plate, but a curved surface. Time however, seemed to be different. It appeared to be separate from space, and to be like a model railway track. If it had a beginning, there would have to be someone to set the trains going. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity unified time and space as spacetime, but time was still different from space and was like a corridor, which either had a beginning and end, or went on forever. However, when one combines General Relativity with Quantum Theory, Jim Hartle and I realized that time can behave like another direction in space under extreme conditions. This means one can get rid of the problem of time having a beginning, in a similar way in which we got rid of the edge of the world. Suppose the beginning of the universe was like the South Pole of the earth, with degrees of latitude playing the role of time. The universe would start as a point at the South Pole. As one moves north, the circles of constant latitude, representing the size of the universe, would expand. To ask what happened before the beginning of the universe would become a meaningless question, because there is nothing south of the South Pole"
>>55498370
Hawkings*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmxkyBuR7Y
>>55498387
Here you go faggot
fuck the muslim garbage in it I can't find the original version
>>55498415
>>55491713
A lot of what he did and taught was the basis of socialism and communism
he wasnt political about it but his teachings can be interpreted that way
>>55498459
Did you actually watch the video beyond 1:06?
And never have i claimed god does not exist.
Never have I claimed that god is impossible.
So I agree completely with Weinberg.
>>55498415
Great, so then what made god
>>55498576
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan."
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."
I could go on and on and on.
But I won't bother.
If the rate of the Universe's one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have re-collapsed into a hot fireball.
>>55498645
God is eternal.
If you need a book, and ask me to borrow the book, but I need to ask to borrow the book, and they need to borrow the book, and so on, you will never get the book, because no one actually has it.
'
Infinite regression doesn't work with beings.
If the gift of life needs to continually be borrowed down the chain of existence, existence cannot happen, because it just goes infinitely backwards with no "first" being ever existing.
There needs to be an uncaused cause. Otherwise there is nothing.
>>55498820
So why not the universe, why cant that be the effect without cause.
>>55498753
>Fred Hoyle
Rejected the big bang theory, and had controversial positions he held on a wide range of scientific issues, often in direct opposition to the prevailing theories supported by the majority of the scientific community
And Penzias both made that claim a long ass time ago, which means he doesn't have the knowledge we have today.
And he was Jewish, so no shit he would believe in creation, or try to explain what he had found with a god.
>>55498871
see
>>55498753
The Universe was created.
Your 15 year old arguments are getting old.
>>55498974
That doesn't explain a single thing.
>>55497494
>The first minute and a half of that video
Ouch.
>>55493330
>the seven deadlies
>bible
Socialist Jesus theorist, everyone.
>>55498974
Not sure why anyone would take you seriously after you said that monkeys writing down hamlet would be impossible
>>55498940
There are astrophysicists today that believe the same thing.
The laws of physics don't change you faggot. What he knew then is the same as we know now, we may only have learned more.
The laws are the same, that's why they are laws.
They would both shit all over you in a debate so just shut the fuck up already.
