Good morning, Americans.
Nationwide minimum wage protests will be held today, pushing for $15 minimum wage.
What makes these niggers suddenly think they deserve double the pay? What do you think is going to happen?
>>55366455
if the min wage raises, then rent raises.
they're too fuckin' stupid to know this.
hence why they only get paid min wage.
>>55366559
I think states will probably sue the federal government if obongo tries to raise it.
Bump. Don't expect your mcgriddles this morning, anons.
Last bump.
>>55366455
Robots when?
Oh wait... NOW
>>55366455
minimum wage is a new career option if they can even find a job willing to hiring them.
>>55366455
I want minimum wage to be five .999 silver quarters an hour, like as it started out as.
Or abolish min wage
>>55366455
Speaking as an aussie things went way too far here. I don't like how the US has literally no protection for workers but the state of small business here is ridiculous. Unions and FairWork have extraordinary amounts of power and employment for young people is difficult due to ridiculously high minimum wage. $17.30AU is crazy, but $15US is just insane. Unemployment in the US will skyrocket with that kind of insanity.
>>55366455
>>55366559
Why are you guys so against the minimum wage going up?
We have a high minimum wage and you know that that means? Sure praises go up to balance things, but it means when I travel to shit holes with low minimum wages like the US, I'm suddenly a rich man due to the conversion and low prices.
Plus there's the fact that by raising the minimum wage, it means there's more of an incentive to get off welfare.
There are no negatives to it.
people need to get used to the fact that you're never gonna have a better life.
the good life is reserved for your betters.
wise guys, politicians and people that were born rich.
the rest are here to serve the economic system
>>55367545
>travel
So you're saying that you make more than minimum wage?
Took me 10 minutes to get my breakfast this morning because these uppity people were protesting.
>>55367545
>Sure i'm poor in my own country, but i'm also encouraged to give money to other countries
>There are no negatives to it.
>>55366455
>raise minimum wate
>prices go up
>too poor again
>raise minimum wate
>prices go up
>too poor again
>raise minimum wate
>prices go up
>too poor again
>raise minimum wate
>prices go up
>too poor again
>raise minimum wate
>prices go up
>too poor again
∞
>>55367545
Costs always go up when the wage has been raised in America. It has never not happened. There's always been a negative effect.
>only $15
>not $500 an hour
>>55366455
If someone over the age of 21 doesn't already make more than double the minimum wage, they failed. Minimum wage is just that, the absolute minimum wage for the least skilled job. How these people can't understand that everyone making $15 an hour will cause massive inflation blows my mind. Mostly blacks protesting though so I should not be so shocked.
well at least were not commies.
now everybody need to get out there and work your asses off so you can buy a $90,000 house for 250,000.
you'll need it for medical and funeral costs after you pay it off
Thanks for the warning. Last time this happened they backed up traffic so bad I was an hour late for work.
>>55367921
>$250,000
Barely the cost of a shitty urban apartment here.
>>55367921
think about it, in 30 years you'll have built up enough equity for a nice old age home and a funeral
>>55366455
>All the niggers think there is no consequence.
Make it $1000/hr.
Fuck it. They've seen enough 60 second videos to know how economics works
>>55368032
Depends on when you bought.
Try 4 year old 4bd/3bh with two car garage on just under 10 acres.
5 minutes to interstate
15 minutes to downtown
220k
>>55368120
yeah, they need to realize there's no way out.
there's no other way then the best economic system evar!!
>>55368263
you don't have any choice. it's freedom!
>>55368349
You forget about IDs samefag?
>>55366455
They don't want jobs so they are looking to be layed off so they can live on welfare. This is my only answer.
>>55368490
what? am I only allowed to say 1 thing?
>>55368349
>>55368263
>>55368087
it's fucking true
>>55368575
You responded to yourself as if you were a different person. At least that's how it looked. Relax maple man, I still like you.
the funnest part is, you may only get $60,000 for that $90,000 house if the housing bubble bursts
and finally, about half the country will fight for even lower pay because mah economics
>minimum wages
>only poor want thos
>i can't see any white people
They get a new minimum wage. 0. They will be unemployed.
>>55367545
>But it means when i travel to shit holes with low minimum wages like the US, im suddenly a rich man
One New Zealand dollar is equal to $ .65 dollars in the US you would actually be poorer
>flood country with millions of immigrants from Mexico, Africa, the middle east, and elsewhere
>actively LET them under-cut the US worker while on top of that give companies tax breaks to hire foreigners over citizens
>actively bring in even more under H-1B visas to bring "competition" to skilled labor markets which in turn drive wages down
>US workforce participation rates fall as the American is literally getting marginalized out of the US economy
>the value of labor plummets, and more and more jobs are hovering around the legal minimum wage which is as low as it can go by law. Without it, the American people would see the full effect immigrants are bringing to devaluing labor.
>for added bonus, all the immigrants drive up the demand for housing, cars, food, and everything, which in turn causes their prices to riseWHILE the average American keeps getting poorer and earning less.
>complain that deporting the illegals would hurt restaurants and other industries becaue they would have to pay more by hiring actual Americans, and bitterly demand illegals be allowed to stay
>"I DESERVE $15 AN HOUR BECAUSE ALL THIS SHIT IS EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT BUT MINE! YES I VOTE DEMOCRAT AND YES I SUPPORT IMMIGRATION FUCKING UP THE JOB MARKET, BUT IF WE RAISE WAGES IN SPITE OF THE VALUE OF LABOR, IT TOTALLY JUST WON'T LEAD TO INFLATION AND EVEN HIGHER PRICES! TRUST ME! I HAVE A DEGREE IN LIBERAL ARTS! AND I FEEL STUFF!"
The stupidity is mind-blowing. The immigraiton problem and the wage problem ARE THE EXACT SAME FUCKING PROBLEM!
>>55369302
I remember when S Carolina made it imposable for immigrants to live there a few years ago. come harvest time they had no one to pick the crops so they had to let it rot in the fields.
Americans aren't gonna do that kinda work for minim wage
>>55369570
They can pay Americans a decent wage for which the left argues will only marginally raise prices.
So if they decided to let produce rot away because they didn't want to pay a decent wage, then it's their own fucking fault.
They deserve double the pay because the rate of inflation has outpaced wage growth. People need more money to just survive. They need that increase whether they deserve it or not in order to be able to pay rent and bills.
>>55366455
>What makes these niggers suddenly think they deserve double the pay?
The victim complex / entitlement mentality created and perpetuated by decades of politicians who see an easy voting block to further their own career and legacy.
High minimum wage leads to inflation locally, and job losses nationally.
Then again, people dont want to hear it in this era of entitlement.
>>55366455
>What do you think is going to happen?
They will go over the poverty threshold and lose access to most of their welfare benefits.
Because people are stupid like that.
>>55369302
God damn this anon gets it. All of it.
But then that's the plan right? The liberal tactic of divide and conquer, and slight of hand?
>>55366455
I hope they get what they want. I fucking DREAM they get what they want, the ignorant bastards
>unemployment for youngsters already high
>few of them have actual skills, few have any experience
>millions of jobs will be replaced by robots, touchscreens, etc.
>wages of other skilled workers will go up so they keep them
>rents go up, food costs go up, fuel costs go up
>everyone with a skill and experience stays the same or gets a little better
>the dumb-fucks that think dropping a basket into hot oil deserves $15/hour are out of a job AND everything costs more
Maybe Shaniqua and Jamal should have paid attention in class and Justin and Brittany should have worked at least a little bit before getting their Masters in Communication with a focus on Gender
>>55367545
>Kiwi
>Rich
I've been to New Zealand - I fucking know better.
>>55367545
Lol look at your housing market you retard you will never own a home in your life
>conversion rates
It take like 15 aussie bucks to make one American dollar so youd be fucked
>>55369570
Shame this never happened.
That was Georgia. And it was 'so disastrous' that two years later, we cracked down even harder. For bonus points, there where billboards. Pic related
If minimum wage kept up with inflation like it was designed to do it would be 21$ right now
but cooperate fat cats have had the government by the balls for decades
billionaires just cant seem to get enough money
>>55369964
shit, I was thinking it might have been Georgia.
still, the story was true. I bet they got rid of those laws for the next year
>>55367545
but you don't have useless niggers in the millions
>>55366455
Liberals will use this as a chance to farm nigger and spic votes.
We're talking about people who can't see past their own noses. Of course they don't realize what raising the minimum wage will do to the spending power of bottom and middleclass Americans.
>>55367545
>there's more of an incentive to get off welfare.
Except people would still earn more by staying on wellfare. They'll ask for less hours so they can keep benefits.
It's been shown before that the same people bitching about low wages don't even work a full week of 40 hours.
>>55369964
>we cracked down even harder
what did they do, force prisoners and welfare recipients to do it?
>>55370045
Literally read what I posted moosey. The first crackdown was in 2011, then we went further in 2013. We still have not backed off from this point.
Rotting in the fields is liberal bullshit. It's all emotional appeal.
>>55370026
Let me guess, you had issue getting your hands off Trudeau's penis long enough to make that comment, or is it still in your mouth right now?
>minimum wage raise
>incentive for automation raise in turn
Where's the downside ?
Don't you want to live in a postscarcity world, anonkun ?
I for one welcome the universal basic income. Especially since i'm getting short on money due to being a NEET, at this rythme i'll run out in twenty years.
>>55370238
>getting upset at facts
The US minimum wage has been stable for six years now. Prices haven't.
At least adjust for inflation.
>>55370306
Ontario has high minimum wage. Hell, high unionization rates too!
So why is the economy here in the shitter?
>>55369964
should make more stuff illegal and off shore more jobs. you'd end up with a huge workforce.
So wat happens to people already making $15 hr?
Why do we never hear about them and how they suddenly go down to minimum wage?
>>55366455
lmao being a wage Kek
>>55367545
>it means there's more of an incentive to get off welfare.
and less incentive to get an actual job
>>55370372
Was that really all you've got snow nigger? We're gonna 'off shore' working in chicken plants and picking peanuts?
>>55370367
maybe for stupid people but im making 24$/h with just a high school education
>>55369964
make being poor illegal with long stretches of prison time that can only be served at harvest time. the rest of the year they can fend for themselves
>>55370367
how is 11.50$ high ?
>>55366455
Minimum wage is the starting wage to any shit job. If a person has worked minimum wage jobs his entire life and has never gotten a raise, then he's a fucking loser. I worked at mcdonald's at minimum wage for six months, then I got hired at Toys R Us, getting 50 cents higher than minimum wage, for two years. Then I got hired at walmart with two years of cashier experience getting $2.00 higher than minimum wage for three years. Then I got a class B license and started working as a bus driver making $6.00 higher than minimum wage. Then I got hired for the county making $12.00 higher than minimum wage.
Only retards aren't worth being paid more than minimum wage.
I don't advocate retardation, and neither should other Americans.
>>55367545
>New Zealand median income is 80% of the US in PPP
>Due to increased costs, higher taxes, etc. New Zealand has 39% lower purchasing power
>This means the average kiwi only has (effectively) 2/3 the wealth of an American
that's fucking poor, m8
>>55370529
>I had to start out in the shit, so everyone else should have a shit time for years as well
>>55370529
>walmart
the biggest welfare recipient in the country.
everyones taxes go up for your $2.00 more
>>55370740
oh, mcdonald's is a big welfare recipient too
all the burger joints and walmarts are
>>55370740
>the biggest welfare recipient in the country.
Shit, I didn't know money was given directly to Walmart from the government.
>>55370884
it isn't, see, they pay such a shitty wage, that most of the people that work there qualify for all kinds of subsidies. medical, school, a cardboard box if you die. ect
>>55367545
My family's business of 5 people which has existed for 35 years would cease to be profitable and we go out of business.
>>55371091
So, in other words, your business can only survive if the government helps by handing your workers welfare?
>>55371091
Dumbest, the new minimum wage requirements wouldn't apply to such a small business like your family's.
>>55367545
Because there are two ways the minimum wage can go up.
1) Occurring naturally as a result of driving forces in the market. This is good.
2) Occurring artificially because some dumbass politicians said so. This is bad.
Every artificial minimum wage raising in the country's history has had a corresponding rise in the costs of housing, food, goods, and services.
The minimum wage cunts get more money, but everything costs more so it ends up being a zero-gain.
BUT the people who don't have the shitty minimum wage jobs have to pay the same higher costs as well, so now there's an even smaller gap between the good middle class jobs and the shitty lower class minimum wage jobs.
Forcing the minimum wage up doesn't make the poor less poor. It makes the middle class more poor.
the most important thing is to keep all that money flowing to big business that would otherwise fail if they had to pay the true cost.
it's the free market
>>55371342
So, how about $8.04?
I mean, the market is clearly not doing it. Prices are also still going up regardless. $8.04 would be simply a return to the 2009 state of affairs.
>>55371091
>My family's business of 5 people which has existed for 35 years would cease to be profitable and we go out of business.
Why is your family entitled to a business?
If you can't figure out how to run a profitable company while paying your workers a living wage, you don't deserve to run a company. period. But good news, you can get a job flipping burgers and still survive!
>>55371342
>The minimum wage cunts get more money, but everything costs more so it ends up being a zero-gain.
If minimum wage goes up to $15/hour. Everyone making between $15-25/hour will get a smaller raise.
Prices WILL go up. but not enough to make it zero-sum. Poor people come out ahead, middle class people who make sure they get a raise or switch jobs will come out ahead.
>>55366455
Not a bad idea in and of itself, but you also need rent and price controls as well to prevent people gouging the poor for all their newfound money. Most importantly though, is that the people getting this higher wage be taught to save at least half of their money.
>>55370884
http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/
maybe there's a fundamental flaw in the economic system if the poor have to subsidize the rich for slave wage jobs
>>55371654
>Prices WILL go up. but not enough to make it zero-sum.
A couple years ago my state raised the minimum wage from $6.15 an hour to $7.25 an hour.
At the time, I was working a half decent job. I made $1600 a month. Rent was $400 a month, monthlies were usually around $200, and groceries for the month were another $200. All those costs only added up to about half my monthly pay, leaving the rest of whatever.
After the minimum wage went up, I went up to $1800 a month. Sounds good, right? Except now my rent is $525 a month, my monthlies usually run about $250, and my groceries for the month average around $350. Now I'm only getting to hold on to about 40% of my monthly pay.
Like I said - the poor stay poor, and the rest of us get poorer.
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/10/18/super_sizing_welfare_costs_low_wages
>>55366455
I think it's time to ship the niggers back to africa.
>>55372075
one anecdotal piece of information does not a fact make.
also. I'm going to call bullshit. your rent went up over 30% in one year? and so did the rent of every similar apartment in your area??? where the hell do you live? I'd like to fact check this one.
monthlies like gas/electric can fluctuate year to year based on local economy, world economy, new electronics, and...the weather. one month of gas heat can be $600+ (averages out to 50/month increase) so yeah, that can happen regardless of a minimum wage increase.
your groceries almost doubled? in one year? more bullshit. i'm pretty sure everyone here eats food and knows thats bullshit. and again, droughts and damaged crops and oil prices and a million other things go into your grocery prices too.
you sound like a fucking moron.
I wish I had a bunch of retarded employees trying to pull this shit. Id fucking close shop immediately. Take my earing sell the business and go on vacation. These annoying fucking cunts can go work for another employer that would pay them better but instead they want to bitch and moan.
Putting in this much effort to get a couple extra bucks. All they had to do is fill out a couple job applications and found new work.
>>55370045
>>55370231
>>55370372
>>55371037
Stfu and gtfo you idiot
>>55372416
Well prices are going up, now that I'm forced with guns pointed at me to shop for healthcare.
Pay the fee or get injured.
>>55372075
Yeah. That was over a couple years. You know what happened in that time? Inflation did. Not just in your state. Not just in your country. That's a thing.
Right now, just to keep the minimum wage on the $7.25 it was raised to in 2009, it would need to be $8.04. Unless you continually raise it with inflation, the effective minimum wage is constantly falling.
>>55371509
>complains about entitlement
>b-but I'm entitled to a $15 legally enforced min wage because I'm special
Kill yourself idiot
>>55370884
>>55371037
>>55371763
Walmart keeps their prices down. That is the reason why the anti trust types wont touch them. If the broke up Walmart, inflation would skyrocket and farther compound the massive problems we have in this country.
>>55371654
>slippery slope fallacy.
You are so stupid. You have no business discussing this topic because you are vastly under educated and incapable of making a decent contribution to the debate.
>>55366640
>I think states will probably sue the federal government if obongo tries to raise it.
There wont be a lawsuit. The Senate will just veto it
>>55371509
It's called free market you idiot. We're all entitled to make a living, starting a business, selling goods and services....
Government regulations holding you back from starting a business?
I know complain that we need more government intervention. That's all you retards seem to do. In the end it fucks you royally, every single time.
>>55372581
the insurance industry is a scam. HOWEVER, obamacare is better than what existed before it.
Just look at the no-health insurance fee or the health insurance costs (which are lower than they were prior to obamacare) as another "tax" the same way you treat income tax, sales tax, and medicare.
I dont have kids, my taxes still fund schools. I'm not going to live past 65, I still pay social security and medicare, etc etc.
You don't get to pick and choose where your tax money goes in civilized society.
Minimum wage pleb here. I seriously hope it doesn't go up. These people are fucking retarded.
I support a raise, but $15 is too much, especially if it's instant. Some parts of the country have really low costs of living.
Why not make incremental jumps? How about raising it $1 a year until it gets to $12, then doing an evaluation of how it has impacted the economy and workers' lives to see if it needs to continue being raised? Isn't this a more common sense approach? There is a legitimate argument that suddenly making small businesses double their compensation costs will be disastrous. It's much easier to implement raises if they are broken up into small increments over a few years.
>>55366455
Raise your children
>>55366455
I just came from one of these places where morons work.. fucking McDonald's, and I was reminded once again why these people don't deserve a raise. If they get it then this society is incurably backwards
It used to be: "the customer is always right", "service with a smile" and all those good old fashioned american values.. what the hell happened. No amount of bogus monopoly tickets will unfuck the reputation their own employees have given them
>>55372668
I see, most of us need to stay poor so we can keep this shitty economic system that makes a few people famously rich?
>>55372817
>what the hell happened.
You get what you pay for, that's what.
>>55372848
I know that what I live for
>>55372848
This economic system has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic system in the history of man.
>>55372613
So "inflation" happened over a few years and you only got a $200/month raise? Which is pretty much $1.25/hour? Sounds like your negotiation skills suck and maybe you should want minimum wage as high as possible.
>>55372783
Great points
I'm gonna need the healthcare after the government breaks my legs because I didn't pay. I'm sure they'll have me fixed right up and back at it. Hell I could live till I'm 75. Can't fucking wait.
Tbh I'm scared shitless that I can't afford this stupid tax and have been considering suicide.
>>55372636
That's exactly my point. People say the workers are entitled, but its the business owners who are entitled.
It makes sense to have a liveable wage floor.
It doesn't make any sense to have shitty businessmen running businesses
>>55372817
Pay with your wallet.
I haven't been to mcshithole in years
>>55372900
communism raised living standards faster for more people in 30 years then capitalism has in 300
>>55372991
Vote with wallet*
>>55372933
The government isn't the mob, they have PR to consider, they won't break your leg. The worst they can do is to try and garnish your income, of which you probably don't have enough to even do it. Just don't be a dumbass and do anything rash or violent.
>>55372863
>>what the hell happened.
>You get what you pay for, that's what.
exactly.
>>55366640
Are you kidding me? They will gladly raise it 1000% if they can make enough sleezy behind-closed-doors deals. Career politicians dgaf
>>55373022
Oh sounds resonable.
Wants to help people by giving them healthcare.
Force them to pay
Can't pay
Force them to pay a penalty for not paying
Can't pay penalty
Take food of your table, steal your car payment, steal your rent payment, need phone for work? They'll take that payment too
Everytime I hear one of you stupid commies/nazis (all sides) bitch you want more government. It takes a great deal for me not to be violent.
>>55372963
How does it make sense to have a wage floor?
Cresting unemployment makes sense to you? Leave the thread you are an idiot.
>>55370529
Exactly how it should be. America is about working to get ahead, whether it be college or real labor.
>>55370646
Doesn't get it. It's about accepting the path you choose and making the most out of it.
>>55373004
LOL
Citation needed you fucking kike.
Even if true, communism also led to mass famine, poverty, totalitarian dictatorship, and mass murder of millions.
Kill yourself you piece of shit
> What do you think is going to happen?
They'll get a raise, but it wont be $15 dollars. Classic sales tactic, ask for something extreme and absurd, then your next request will seem much more reasonable in comparison.
>>55372416
>also. I'm going to call bullshit. your rent went up over 30% in one year?
One year? No. This happened over the course of 3-4 years.
I never claimed any of this happened overnight. You get a small net gain for maybe two or three years before the increases in housing, goods, and services catch up to you.
The point is that those short term gains hide the fact that in the long term you end up keeping less of what you earn.
Minimum wage has always been exactly what it advertises as - a minimum wage necessary to afford a minimal quality of living. You're not supposed to live a life of luxury on minimum wage, you're not meant to support a family on it - they're meant as a first job for young people entering the work force, or a temp job for people in between real jobs.
The whole point is that you're not supposed to work hard and work your way ABOVE minimum wage, not settle for it
>>55373191
wtf drugs are you on? have you ever owed money to the govt? they dont chase after people who owe them dozens of dollars.
>>55370529
What did you do for the County, anon?
>>55373192
Sorry for valuing human life and thinking any person with a fulltime job should be able to survive.
>>55373230
russia was a backward feudal monarchy in 1916
by 1946 it was a superpower. look it up
>>55373364
What was it by 1980?
>>55366455
>why do these people suddenly think they deserve an eight hour work day, time off, and safe working conditions
>you, 100 years ago
>>55366455
>work fulltime at 8$ hr
>don't have drug problem or boatload of niglets
Able to enjoy life without handouts
>>55373408
still a super power
>>55373191
I'll take it you're one of the hundreds of millions exceptions slipping through the cracks because they didn't qualify for anything.
Even then: No, they won't steal everything. They're not stupid, they know if they do that, you'll drop out of the system and they get nothing. So they'll let you keep just enough to continue, and take everything that's past that.
But the key point is cooperation. The system reacts aggressively when it's threatened. If you don't work with the system, you're setting an example that the system can't tolerate, hence it forces you back in line. If you do work with it, the system is satisfied, it doesn't give a shit about the couple hundred dollars it may or may not get from you, and so it'll let you keep your normal life.
We can talk about the ethical implications of said system for days, there's probably hundreds of better alternatives and the current US healthcare model sucks balls in every way, but it's reality, and right now you're stuck in it. You can now either be the cool rebel and try to take it on, or fall in line and work with it. Your choice.
>>55373343
If a person cannot afford the quality of life which they desire with their current job, they should find a way to improve their lot instead of stomping their feet around like a child and demanding entitlements.
>>55366455
Soros is pushing this so automization/robots will come faster, unless you're a billionaire your fucked
>>55373426
You're on the minimum wage of 2009. I'll assume they sold you this as a raise.
>>55373439
Militarily perhaps. Economically not so much.
>>55372848
>most of us need to stay poor so we can keep this shitty economic system that makes a few people famously rich?
No. The point I was making is the "most of us" that "need to stay poor" as you put it, would be far worse off if if the Gov can in and broke up Walmart into a bunch of smaller companies, because the low prices that helped largely negate the effects of The Federal Reserves constant money printing.
Why are people so fucking ungrateful? Here in the US the median wage per person is $26,695, and the median household income is at $50,500. Now to be in the top 1% of all humans, in terms of yearly income, you need to make $32,400 USD.
>>55373271
our fathers (or maybe some o your grandfathers) were able to walk out of high school into a job that paid them well enough to feed and house a family of 4.
That's when "America was great" and business was booming and innovation was happening and infrastructure was being built.
But pure unadulterated greed, valuing stockholders over employees and customers, and the simple lack of empathy has led us here.
Let's try to get back to a wage being high enough to support a family, so that our children can have a full time parent at home and we can all benefit and evolve.
>>55373416
>why do these people suddenly think that they deserve a 1 hour work week, 10 moth sabbatical each year, and free blowjobs at work?
>society, 100 years from now
>>55372776
>We're all entitled to make a living, starting a business, selling goods and services....
But workers aren't entitled to organize and agitate for their interests?
>>55373513
That's what it was all along, because it squandered its economic power on prestige projects for propaganda.
It's a shame, really. Russia had potential, under a smarter leadership, even when hindered by its economic system. But you can't at the same time repair the damage of WW2, fund a space program, fund a massive army, fund wars, feed your population and improve your economy to the standard of the western world. That doesn't work under any system. Consequently, Russia broke.
bunch of retarded faggots that doesnt know what inflation means.
>>55373460
a labor union and an organized strike is hardly the equivalent of a temper tantrum.
labor unions were forces of good once upon a time, you know.
>>55373540
so you're saying were lucky we have it so good?
Walmart raised their pay to 12 an hour and it's almost killing the company, they have laid of tons of management at corporate and are trying to squeeze thrir suppliers even more, thry know if they raise prices people won't buy.
Everything is fucked and demanding higher wages won't fix anything.
If however we reported say 30 million people, that would solve the wage problem quickly
>>55373547
So then have government incent businesses to return their manufacturing back to the United States. End these shitty trade agreements that give us nothing but shitty quality products at low prices.
This will cause prices to increase as well, but it would also increase the median income in the country.
>>55373513
they switched to capitalism
>>55373606
>But workers aren't entitled to organize and agitate for their interests?
They are and do through Unions.
Look what that got detroit.
They went elsewhere so they could actually make decent money instead of skimming by on the margins thanks to unions raising the cost of labor.
>>55373723
Trumps racist ok! Just vote Hillary and raise the minimum wage.
>>55373723
I absolutely support that too.
>>55373724
Because communism had failed miserably... I'm not going to argue with you anymore. There is no fucking need to argue about communism when there are dozens of examples showing very clearly how devastatingly hard it has failed as an economic system.
Fuck off you dirty kike shill.
>>55373547
And do you know what kind of jobs those were? HARD jobs, TOUGH jobs, jobs worth paying a man enough to feed a family of four.
Mining, manufacturing, industrial work, farming, hell even the guys who walked into office jobs put in 50-60 hours a week to provide their families with a decent standard of living.
People want the same standard of living today, but they also want to work less and work easier jobs at the same time. They want to raise a family or live a luxurious life but they're only willing to dunk fries in a deep fryer or run a cashier station for 30 hours a week.
>>55373751
>Look what that got detroit.
yup, the car business went to the 3rd world cause that's where the slaves are.
shit, taxpayers probably subsidized the move too
>>55366771
Mickey Dees is fucked. They literally only exists to feed the homeless these days.
>>55373676
>so you're saying were lucky we have it so good?
No. I'm saying two messages.
1) Trying to fuck over Walmart, will fuck over the entire economy, which will fuck over poor people the most.
2) I'm saying be thankful for what you have, because there is, and always will be, someone in a shittier place in this big world of ours.
>>55370504
I wish people would realize dollar amount means nothing without knowing the daily cost of living for their locale.
>>55373868
>And do you know what kind of jobs those were? HARD jobs, TOUGH jobs, jobs worth paying a man enough to feed a family of four.
>Mining, manufacturing, industrial work, farming, hell even the guys who walked into office jobs put in 50-60 hours a week to provide their families with a decent standard of living.
Jobs have gotten "easier" because of automation and computers, but worker productivity goes up every year. We SHOULD be working less hours and getting more time off.
Our society should be evolving towards EVERYONE being able to do things they enjoy with as little work as possible.
I don't want the same standard of living as a 1950s family. I want the same standard of living as a star trek family.
the idea that people should "have to" work 40+ hours to survive is just as obsolete and outdated as religion.
>>55373828
yeah, any dystopia but that one.
we'll all just have to live in this one
>>55373971
now make the case for slavery
Raise the minimum wage and American workers will become less competitive in worldwide labor, however most Walmart, McDs, ect employees need to be on government assistance because they can't afford to live on their income alone. That is why those places have such low prices, because you are paying their labor.
Keep the minimum wage and cut the food stamps, medicare and SSI. That will never happen with our limp dick politicians so instead YOU should boycott these places.
Haven't shopped at Walmart in 10 years and proud of it.
>>55373971
so basically, we have to be fucked over or we'll be fucked over even worse?
I make $10.75 an hour at a shitty part time job as I pay my way through college. I'm paid too much for the work I do.
If I owned a business like retail or fast food I'd hire less employees if I had to pay them $15 an hour for $8 or $9 an hour work.
Can't pay your bills? Too bad.
>>55374165
>Keep the minimum wage and cut the food stamps, medicare and SSI.
That'll mostly just make the poverty situation in the US much worse, and lead to the businesses around supplying the poor closing down. Also, you'll get worse disease outbreaks.
>Haven't shopped at Walmart in 10 years and proud of it.
Good for you, if you can afford it. Plenty of people can't, and you want to make them even worse off.
>>55374225
How are you personally being fucked over?
>>55374165
I didn't know I was responsable for the rest of the world too
>>55374281
we all have to subsidize their workers
>>55374165
>American workers will become less competitive in worldwide labor
they should all have to compete with the billions of people around the world that can live on a buck a day
>>55374165
I don't want American workers to be competitive with people working for 2 cents an hour so they can afford to buy a bag discarded bones they can use to make more flavorful broth, which is considered a luxury. Seriously fuck you straight up your ass. You are either a troll or fucking retard if you think 15 dollars an hour is anywhere near good money.
>>55374241
You'd hire the number of employees you need to run your business effectively. What are you gonna do, have one guy manage the cash register, the drive-thru and the fryer?
>>55374540
at least that's the goal, right?
I just wonder why they are so worried about foreigners all of a sudden
>>55374165
>Raise the minimum wage and American workers will become less competitive in worldwide labor,
Start taxing companies who outsource labor and manufacturing up the ass, and raising import tariffs on foreign businesses sky high (and american businesses who try to have the best of both worlds)
Then you dont really have to worry do you?
It's curious. I was discussing fair wages with my boss the other day.
I work in a factory with four people with degrees (HR, me and my boss as chemists, and a plant manager with an engineering degree), a few office staff, and 90% felons and drug addicts, in a facility employing approximately 100 people. Many of them make minimum wage.
One of our workers left after working for seven years in unsafe conditions with not a single pay raise. This is lunacy to me. If I'm not moving up in a company within a year and change, I'm moving on. The majority of hourly workers here resent the few salaried people, and think that because pushing a broom entails more physical labor than sitting in an office doing calculations and lab work, they should be paid better.
But what value do they bring to the company? The work I do saves my company hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not more) yearly, and without me, production would be crippled. Any time something fucked up, there's not a single other person in the facility who would know how to fix it. It's not unfair to think that I deserve much more than my coworkers. That being said, I do think a minimum wage is necessary to some degree.
I understand that I come from a position of great privilege, being a white middle class male with the opportunity to go to college. But at a certain point, I feel like if you're unsatisfied with your lot in life, you need to make changes. Raoul (the guy in question) worked a shitty job for seven years because all he wants to do is smoke pot and do the bare minimum. If you want more money, go out and get it. I have had the opportunity to meet plenty of individuals in all areas of the race/ gender/ socioeconomic spectrum, and there's one thing that binds them together: if you want something, you have to go out and get it. Don't expect anything to be handed to you.
>>55368263
>>55368349
>>55368625
s-samefag?
>>55374692
>It's not unfair to think that I deserve much more than my coworkers
If everyone else at your factory (including the unskilled labor) was given the same salary as you, would you be unhappy with that?
>>55374692
the system works for him so fuck everyone else
>>55374692
One thing to ask people who say "what value do they bring" is "what salary would you do that job for?
I know a lot of people who make 30-50k and NONE of them would take the same pay or even a raise to be a janitor or burger flipper because of the filth or the stress or the "social embarrassment"
Therefore, the shit jobs aren't valueless or "easy". You still need someone to do them.
And this, by the way, is why the NYC Sanitation Workers Union is the strongest union in the world and the garbagemen get paid more than teachers, cops and fire fighters.
Because at various points in the past the garbage men said "fuck you, we're not doing this" and everyone else said "well, we arent doing it - you gotta, please?"
Now this is an example of extreme stupidity the other way, garbage men shouldnt be paid more than cops and firemen. But the basic premise is....
your college degree isnt as special as you think it is you elitist prick, and factory workers and janitors deserve money too. You should be embarrassed to work for a place that has employees not getting wages for 7 years and has unsafe working conditions.
also "I know I got stuff handed to me, but dont expect anything to be handed to you" Fuck off.
>>55374332
Well shit. I misinterpreted this completely. You are right about the subsidizing being the thing that fucks us over, but that is the Government giving our money away and I wouldn't doubt it that those, amounts of subs would go up if minimum wage went up. Which would increase the amount of fucking us over, that we would have being don to us.
I was talking about AntiTrust laws (the breaking up of non-utility monopolies) and why the Gov doesnt go after the giant that is Walmart.
>>55374116
>now make the case for slavery
There is not one to be made. Alexis de Tocqueville summed it up best in "Democracy in America." He stood in Ohio (no slavery), looking across the Ohio River at Kentucky (slavery).
"Another very remarkable thing is Ohio is this: Ohio is perhaps the State of the Union in which it is easiest to see, in a striking way and close up, the effects of slavery and of liberty on the social state of a people. The State of Ohio is separated from Kentucky just by one river; on either side of it the soil is equally fertile, and the situation equally favorable, and yet everything is different."
"These differences cannot be attributed to any other cause but slavery. It degrades the black population and enervates the white. Its fatal effects are recognized, and yet it is preserved and will be preserved for a long time more. Slavery threatens the future of those who maintain it, and it ruins the State; but it has become part of the habits and prejudices of the colonist, and his immediate interest is at war with the interest of his own future and the even stronger interest of the country."
"So nothing shows more clearly than the comparison I have just made that human prosperity depends much more on the institutions and the will of man than on the external circumstances that surround him. Man is not made for slavery; that truth is perhaps even better proved by the master than by the slave."
(Tocqueville, p. 285)
>>55372715
How much of the Senate needs to veto it?
You know what, call me a retard but what the fuck does the president even have to do with raising the minimum wage? Doesn't it have to be in a bill, so the only power the president has is to veto or sign it after it's gone through Congress? If I'm correct in this assumption, what the fuck is barney sandal's platform on this issue? He has no fucking power so when he says he wants to raise the minimum wage what the fuck is he planning on doing? Politely asking Congress to make up and pass a bill? Fuck, it's the same shit with his gun control bullshit. He's just yelling buzzwords while no one realizes the president can do fuck all to make it happen.
>>55366455
Give them 15$ hour wage
Nigger tax
Sand Nigger tax
Ect
problem solved they won't bitch if it's taxed for a good reason
>>55375184
You know if the minimum wage is increased, white people will get it too, right?
>>55375236
Yeah but if it's going towards keeping
my neighborhood nigger free
and the prisons full I'll gladly pay a tax
Just raise it already, I mean come on.
>>55374225
How are you getting fucked over? Because you don't get to steal the work product of others?
>>55375177
Retard.
>double min. wage
>employers cut hours in half or lay off their work force
>prices go up because the few min-wagers who got to keep their jobs now buy more shit
>people making $15 an hour or above essentially take a pay cut of about $7.00 an hour
Sounds like a brilliant plan.
>>55375345
This, it's the [current year] come on !
>>55367545
Why not control it at the state/city level though? Federal minimum wage is a living wage in the poorest states. So why not leave it at the ground level and let different municipalities increase as needed?
>>55375431
Yes, as everyone knows a loaf of bread costs over $100 in Australia, employers do not hire people, it's practically anarchy.
I mean c'mon guys, haven't you seen the Mad Max documentary?
>>55375529
>So why not leave it at the ground level and let different municipalities increase as needed?
First, because then those states will stay poor. Different wage levels also means different kind of industries are attracted, and means brain drain towards states with higher wages.
Second, because keeping it at its point indefinitly means it's constantly going down.
>>55367695
Of course the Israeli gets it
>>55375639
>much higher cost of living with stagnant economic growth rate
>Economy dependent on mineral and agriculture exports, somehow comparable to the U.S. whose economy is based almost entirely on the service and manufacturing sectors.
>nah m8, Aus is bloody great!
Also, after Obamacare was passed, employers slashed hours to avoid paying benefits to their employees, what makes you think they won't slash hours again to maintain proftis?
>>55366455
Time for technology to replace these entitled fucks.
Robots and computers can't go on strike.
>>55376135
Because you can only slash hours so much. Eventually, you're going to need X hours of work done, or you don't meet your business goals.
>>55376353
There are plenty of workers in every company who are considered superfluous. Trust me.
>>55375659
If you increase it federally the poor states don't suddenly get less poor. I live in Albuquerque which is a low wage city. I could get a studio apartment for like $275/month. This is because it's not a very luxurious place to live. This brings businesses like call centers to take advantage of the lower wage average. The US is huge, and the wages in one state really don't compare to another. If the entire EU determined a minimum wage that was suitable for richer countries like Germany/UK then the economy of places like Hungary would suffer because many businesses were there for the cheaper labor, and would have little reason to stay.
>>55376434
Yeah, the company is paying them a salary out of charity. They posted that job opening and went through the overhead and cost of recruiting, training and maintaining employees that are a drain on them.
"Trust me"
I trust that you have a few extra chromosomes.
>>55376228
Indeed.
Once they decide to stop working for meatbags, there will be no strike.
Well, the union kind at least ;^)
>>55376639
>recruiting, training, maintaining
>min wage
Yes, because min wage = skilled labor.
>>55376734
>overhead of hiring new employees and bringing them into the fold costs the company nothing
Holy shit how are you even using a computer with no frontal lobes?
>>55376796
>McJobs take a LOT of training, seriously! It took me like, 2 years to figure out how to work the fryer!
I should ask you the same question.
>>55376901
I didn't say it takes a lot of training you illiterate fucking mongoloid.
>>55376943
It takes a week at most to train min. wage employees, if it takes more, then they're probably not minimum wage since they can negotiate higher pay.
Hence why minimum wage jobs have higher turnover rates and zero opportunities of upward mobility.
>>55370048
they've got abos m8
>>55377033
And I'm saying, you stupid piece of shit, that no company is going to pay for that week of overhead where they losing money not only in the fact that that new hire isn't being productive, plus paying someone to train them, who is also not being productive, PLUS a salary, for someone "superfluous" that is not even going to make a return on that investment.
>>55377069
they dont have 42+ abos though
>>55367752
how did you do that sideways 8?
>>55374692
aside from all the other stupid shit you just said theres
>they should all become chemists like me and then they could make the same salary
There's not enough room at higher pay levels for everyone to move into. The world needs lots of low skill workers. People need to cycle out of the top by retiring but even then, there's not enough of a market to support 350 million math majors making $300k 1st year.
I'll repeat
SELF IMPROVEMENT TO INCREASE EARNING POTENTIAL IS IRRELEVANT TO THE MINIMUM WAGE.
Also, I support min wage tied to inflation, a minor increase, and, more importantly, a restoration of a legitimate path to the middle class by ending immigration and castration of greedy fucks in the government, wall st, and the proverbial corporations.
>>55367545
>There are no negatives to it.
Besides the fact that my savings gets wiped out because I'm not rich enough to hire a stock broker or buy properties.
Plus the fact that demand can be easily manipulated. Wages double, then prices increase to 220%, and most people are too stupid to notice.
>>55373265
This. It will be10$ an hour
>>55378863
I have not read this whole thread but would like to jump in. If we go back to the wealth of nations it can be read one of two different ways. One it is a plan for a real free market system that if it was what we had might actually work. Two it is a way to mannipulate people into believing they are free-men in a free market but in truth they are just pawns and rules only apply to them because there betters are the only ones smart enough(or well bred enough) to run things or its divine providence that puts some in luxury and others in poverty. Something like this any way I tend to believe we have been lied to about everything so much that you have go back and check all their facts or you never get a straight logical idea of whats really going on.
>>55377191
They probably should not be in business then. Although I have heard that line a million times and then they go and buy themselves a new Hummer with all the extras, because they are barley getting by.
>>55378551
>sideways 8
Just shut up
>>55377033
So you believe the kindhearted capitalist when he tells you that they don't conspire to keep wages low. When if you read wealth of nations it shows us that they did that even back then.
>>55380277
>So you believe the kindhearted capitalist when he tells you that they don't conspire to keep wages low.
yea because thats ludicrous, if they conspired to keep wages low, everyone's shit job would be low paying
>>55380097
>demand some bullshit massive amount of pay increase for a no-effort, low skilled job
>business owner: we can't afford a jump like that
>WELL YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN BUSINESS
>and you don't have a job now, heres your pink slip, we're replacing you with a fucking robot, have fun with 15 dollars for no-effort you fucking hippy
>>55367545
Are you fucking retarded? MORE people will be put on welfare. If companies decide to pay the $15, they will do two things:
1) raise prices to what they are selling (as you said)
2) fire people so the company doesn't have to pay higher wages to more people. This will lead to a higher unemployment, which will lead to more people on welfare, which will lead to more debt for the US government, which will lead to higher taxes. Sounds fun, right? Not, so how about you stay in that where you are, cunt.
>>55366455
>>What makes these niggers suddenly think they deserve double the pay?
Because we're doing four times the work we did when the wage was half this.
>>55366455
>What do you think is going to happen?
Replaced with robots and more outsourcing, just like the 1960s through 1980s
Then things will get worse and they will once again complain about racism instead of the fact that no democrat has ever understood economics
>minimum wage goes up
>cost to do business goes up
>cost of goods goes up
>gibs me $25 an hour
>>55380358
They are unless you include sons and daughters of the bosses. Like they would pay you a decent wage just cause they like you. Its against the fiduciary bargain. Just like companies are announcing that they are no longer going to pay for phones and computers that employees use to make their business run. disperse the costs and concentrate their benefits.
>>55370646
And look where that mentality took you Germany, or should i say, you filthy entitled shitskin
>>55380765
>annual income requirement for welfare goes up
>more people using welfare system
>>55367545
it takes jobs away and give them to robots, why pay so much for a shitty worker doing such a meaningless job
>>55380448
The fact that we are all required to work is bullshit where is all the money going? Profits are higher then they have ever been in world history. The ancient Greeks had the money to pay people to sit around and think or do art, but we don't. the absurdity of your thought process amazes me.
>>55380614
>raise prices to what they are selling (as you said)
They don't have to do this they do this because they want to rise prices to what the market will bare. It called maximizing profits(or greed).
>>55380749
>robots and more outsourcing
Cause this will fix things NOT. This is just a response they do to make others poor. Like your understanding of econ is that much greater right?
>>55381104
>The ancient Greeks had the money to pay people to sit around and think or do art
Rich people paid a very few extremely smart people or skilled artists and poets enough to live on.
They didn't pay every dipshit a "livable wage" for scribbling garbage on a wax tablet.
>>55370529
This anon knows what's up.
>>55380765
If people where paid a fair wage(livable) then the whole system could work its just that people on top have gotten so greedy that things don't work any more.
>>55372963
It doesn't make sense to have a shitty economist like you determining policy.
If your full-time job is dirt-farming you aren't going to eat no matter how much you work.
>>55381620
The hamburger I buy for lunch shouldn't be bankrolling some highschool kid's entire family.
>>55381620
>If people where paid a fair wage(livable)
Sounds like communism which didn't work because the people on the top would got greedy when they decided what's livable.
Who decides what's livable? People like Bernie earning over a hundred thousand dollars a year? Do you think he'd give up his wage to fund 3-4 other people's "livable" wage?
>>55380917
If prices where not pushed to what the market can bare this would not happen. Its one of the faults in the system right now.
>>55366455
Here's what's going to happen:
Ooga booga bix nood cracka sheeiiittt gibsmedat nigga blacklivesmatter nigga mup dip dig doodlywoodly muh dik
>>55366455
>What makes these niggers suddenly think they deserve double the pay?
>>55381447
Right cause they all where so fucken smart. They paid people to do things so they did not plot against them and take everything they had away.
>>55381739
Well if they only employed high-school kids I could agree but they don't. Why do you think that is?
>>55381689
Really I grew up in Wisconsin most farmers made good money.
>>55381747
>Sounds like communism
NO, but your allowed to be a shill here all you want. I would also add communism has never been tried USSR Lennon said what he was doing was only state sponsored capitalism LOOK it up. Well as to who decides How come people who are poor are not asked that question or how come studies are never focused on that?
I would hope people here do not think I am a socialist or a communist. I believe that people that work harder deserve more. Our system does not match the hype its given. I believe if we look into hhistory we find the answers we seek it has much to do with what is wrong today. We have a moneyed elite that think they are better then everyone else and should not have to work and they fuck the whole system by how much they rob us all. If we could get rid of these leaches the system would function well enough for us and might even end poverty.
The only plus for raising min. wage is for people currently in debt that are making below $15/hr.
I could pay off my truck in 6 months instead of 3 years if I got $15/hr because my loan isn't going to suddenly go up as well.
>>55367463
That's about $12,50/hr at melt value
>>55366455
liberals are retarded
cant have it both ways.... i hope they choose to be anti mass immigration of low skilled workers
>>55383757
Inflation evens the playing field across the board. If everyone in the US suddenly started making 10,000x more money, bank accounts and debts would basically zero out. It's taking money from the savers and giving it to the debtors. It's basically how many of the old Socialist States survived the early 2000's.
>>55383757
Ah well everything else will go up. If your watching the prices on stuff is all ready going up. Its the flaw that no one seems to like to talk about that capitalist will rise prices to what the market will bare. its not about a fair price its about what they can drain out everyone.
>>55384045
Fucking shills
>>55384045
>evens the playing field
>>55384045
>across the board
>>55384045
>bank accounts and debts would basically zero out
>>55384045
>It's taking money from the savers and giving it to the debtors
>>55384045
>the old Socialist States survived the early 2000's
How does any of this make any sense?
These all appear to me to be vague terms to dupe less educated people. cause they really don't say.
>>55366455
>Business owners do not want to raise minimum wage
>They raise it
>Raise the price of everything around them in spite of the dindus
>>55384934
Which kind of states the problem. Except the dindus whatever the fuck that means. There must be a way to stop people from being so greeedy that they have to keep people poor and busy. The poor must invovle them selves in the process of government if they expect things to get better. I think employers should have to pay for this if they cant they should not be in business. I really think capitalism always was a bad plan. Some how we must come up with a plan that works for all and not just a few.
I hope this means mass unemployment combined with preferential hiring practices that favors shitskins. What better recipe for the US to go full Weimar?
>having minimum wages
There's your problem 'murica
>>55385366
>Competition and self-determination which helps customers and employees in turn is bad.
Shut your fucking mouth
>>55369689
My little /pol/lack can't be this retarded.
Try a thought experiment: you can either pay people higher wages than you can afford to finish production and be out $2k at the end of the year, or you can stop work, leave the crops to rot and only be out $1k.
Which sounds like the smarter option?
>>55385625
Hows that the problem. If that is the one and only problem. The problems I think run far deep then oh having no minimum wage would solve everything. Very rich and smart people put together this puzzle and it will take more then changing one thing. The hard part is what to do with all the very rich frauds.
>>55385723
Not sure I understand you but how is this bad. A real free market might work we just have to get rid of the aristocracy( by this I mean if you have any more money then you can spend in a life time forget it its gone to the state or a charity) free markets would judge the best products. This is not what we have though its socialism only for the rich fucks.
http://strawpoll.me/5973514
http://strawpoll.me/5973514
http://strawpoll.me/5973514
