Is the teachers union ruining this country?
yeh
The only education children need is in the Bible!
>union
It's a bad thing.
>>55326587
Former Teacher Here, from California.
Yes. But it is only half the equation.
Unions fight for their workers rights, sure and all that fun stuff - but within the education system we have today it isn't feasible. It also is counterproductive considering how schools are now federally funded.
It is not an exaggeration to say that the bills that were due in April were being reimbursed by the feds THE FOLLOWING MAY. Literally 13 month wait for money from the feds.
This causes everyone to get a 'pink slip' without tenure. That pink slip is required by law IF the school is 'unsure' if said teachers will be rehired come the next year. A good idea if the school was actually in control of their budget. As it is, EVERY teacher without tenure gets a pinkslip.
This of course gets the union absolutely insane. Tenured teachers are more than happy to strike and whatever because they are legally protected. The more protections they have, the less the non tenured teachers do. An inverse relationship to be sure.
Because the union is always being played (*at least in the teacher's minds) on the defensive, they literally have an excuse every year to strike regardless of wages. Before I left the profession they were striking over the district not wanting to pay for Obamacare. Same idiots voted for Obamacare and actually campaigned for it.
I'll continue ranting next post.
>>55326727
Try not to speak too sarcastically. Someone might read this and find it confirming.
>>55326587
>If don't get it my way then I'll just leave presented as unreasonable
But that's perfectly valid
>>55326727
Agreed. If you disagre ur a fedora nerd lool.
>>55327072
Cont.
SO you have unions that could be argued to be beneficial or not, and you have a shit federal system that is bleeding districts dry of their budget WHILE confusing the fuck out of them on what funding they should expect in the future.
ON TOP OF ALL THAT
You have a serious problem with Academia 'discovering' a new way to teach the same subject every 3 years.
So, you have new teachers using the new 'and improved' methods to teach, and the old guard that has done the same shit from the beginning. Have you every tried to get an old person from changing their ways? Same shit with tenured teachers and new teaching methods. Some of these ideas are nice and all... BUT
In three years they change everything again. You literally cannot keep up with what school is teaching what way. State Standards SEEM like a swell idea, but guess what?
Especially in border states those tests for state standards are worthless. The only kids you actually get a bead on are the ones that ALREADY KNOW FUCKING ENGLISH. The students that drag you down are the ones FROM FUCKING MEXICO that don't speak english. Most of them cannot write or read in either language as well.
My average class size was 45 students. Budgetary reasons. Of that 45, about 35-40 would show up on any given day. Of them. maybe 25 were native english speaker.s
AMA while I do other shit I'll reply
>>55327072
>>55327797
My tax money posts for you to only work 6 months out of the year.
Your complaints are invalid and falling on deaf ears.
>>55327890
pays** for you
>>55326587
My fiance is in the teachers union for Boston public schools, which is one of the best school districts in the state (for employment). She has her master's degree and still only gets paid $60k a year. if it wasnt for benefits (mostly thanks to the union) like good health care, dental, eye care, etc it would be a shit gig, and our schools would be even more garbage than they already are. furthermore the absolute MOST she will ever get paid will be just barely 6 figures, and that's literally 20+ years from now.
unions can be corrupt, fucked up things, but for teachers, not so much. if there's anything our tax dollars should be funding, it's education.
>>55327890
teachers at public schools have 3 months off total (2 months of summer, 1 month between the various vacations throughout the school year), which is of course a lot--but the pay reflects this big time. as i said here: >>55327940 the BEST paid school gig in my state only shells out 60k to a teacher with postsgraduate degrees. if you are at a more suburban school district you can expect much less than that. most teachers supplement their income with weekend and/or summer work.
not saying that they are UNDERpaid, but to suggest they are overpaid is ridiculous, especially considering rhetoric like yours forces them on the defensive all the time about their salaries.
i dont know about you, but i dont want minimum wage niggers teaching my kids.
>>55327940
60k? What's the cost of living in Boston? That sounds like a livable wage.
>>55326587
Judging by the grammar in your post, the damage is done.
>>55328166
it is certainly liveable, but you wont be buying a house in the area on that wage anytime soon, ESPECIALLY if you are paying off student loans simultaneously.
but bear in mind that this is at the upper end for someone who has been working in the school district for a couple years, in a district that already pays more than the average school.
once again, i'll reiterate that i am not suggesting they are UNDERpaid but they are definitely NOT "living the life" off of tax dollars. military welfare queens are way, way worse.
>>55328130
Most teachers don't actually have three months off. Usually they have two weeks of meetings and other administration-related stuff after students have left on their summer breaks. Then they have two weeks before the summer breaks end for similar tasks. Add to this they have to have worked out syllabi and lesson plans before they go back to work for those two weeks so it's more like 2 months off.
Similarly, they often work during the winter holidays while students are off and have to work on the evenings and weekends grading papers and tests.
It's a pretty involved job actually.
>>55328392
Do teachers change grade level/course each year? I'm not trying to put you on the defensive. Just curious.
>>55328130
I'd settle for them sticking to an actual working education system. It feels like the kids are getting dumber and dumber and crop you put out.
Why the hell is standardized testing so important when it barely teaches anything? I'm a walking case study on it. All they did was shove SATS and TASS or whatever alphabet soup they got for it now at me and it arguably hurt more than helped. It really showed on the finals across the board. Hell my entire senior history class failed except for 3 people including me. 3 out of a class of 30.
Still amazed I even learned shit honestly. All that focus on memorizing but no focus on using or retaining information.
Seriously. what the fuck is up with that?
>>55327797
Trump 2016?
>>55326587
No weak people in general are. Colleges as a whole need a reset though.
Also fuck scott walker.
>>55328606
i agree there is too much focus on standardized testing, that's been a problem for along time (exacerbated by bush's "no child left behind" farce). but that's a top-down problem, and penalizing teachers for poor public education policy is not right.
and either way, as someone who attended public school, i can say with confidence that the classes where i learned the most were a result of the TEACHER and never the curriculum (despite standardized tests). those teachers that were smart, could connect to their students, and were creative in their lessons were always the best and most memorable.
>>55327890
Did you not read former? Says it in the trip and everything..
You are also expected to return to some sort of program to learn the new method of teaching the same shit. As a history teacher, we were expected to go somewhere to get material for next year's class.
For me, we were expected to re enroll in college for another program to learn how to teach common core stuff.
>>55328264
I started at 38k when I was teaching. Enough to pay rent and get yourself more college nonsense. Not enough to single bread winner family, for sure. That being said as soon as you got tenure your pay increased substantially and you were more free to teach as you please. I never got to that point.
>>55328632
Very much so. If you wanted to fix our public school system you would enforce english only learning, dump anchor babies and stop making school compulsory. Some kids are better off jumping into a trade or military instead of shitting up the school and lowering test scores.
Not necessarily, but teacher's unions that have too much power (i.e. most of them) are pure cancer.
>live in Wisconsin
>Walker gets elected, attempts to reform education funding to balance the bloated education budget
>one part of the reform was to reduce the power of collective bargaining of teachers and professors
>the teacher's unions claim that this is going to destroy education, several teachers leave the state in disgust, massive protests, teachers constantly bitch about it during class, etc...
>teacher unions chimp out, try to get him recalled for "being misleading about the issue during the prior election" (he wasn't)
>strong arm the Democrats in the State Legislature to flee to Illinois and hold back reforms
>waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to kick Walker out of office because he dared to challenge their power
>Democrats have literally no candidate, nominate the same guy who just lost to Walker less than a year before
>people realize how bullshit the recall is, reelect Walker by a greater margin than the prior election
>Walker becomes a national conservative legend, Wisconsin Dems look like scum, Wisconsin turns red outside of Madison and Milwaukee niggers
>unions chimp out, try to get Walker charged on several scandals (alleged affairs, the John Doe investigation, etc...)
>nothing sticks
>several years later, schools feel little to no effect from reforms
Unions with too much power, especially public unions, are as bad, if not worse, than massive corporations.
>>55328590
Depends on what school. Jr Highs, (6, 7th and 8th) you were expected to teach at least one of each grade year.
High school you might get a specialized class room, but if you were new you were stuck with the ne'er do wells and non english speaking students.
One year I switched from the 9th and 10th grade material to 11th and half of the 12th grade nonsense. IT wasn't too hard, I'm fairly decent on the uptake but I'm sure it was frustrating to the old birds that were teaching 7th grade for hte last 30 years. Those teachers usually got their pick, tenure and all.
>>55326587
Yes it is a fucking joke and isn't doing anything good for our system.
>>55329509
I'd agree. They use to have a need, but now not so much. Compound that with the other two major issues fucking our school system and there isn't a point. What power they do have does not translate to solving the larger issues of funding, bullshit pedagogical nonsense and of course demographics.
If our other two major issues were resolved I wouldn't see an issue keeping them around, but then they really wouldn't have an issue to bring up in the first place. As is they are a huge detriment to our education system.
>>55329293
>>several years later, schools feel little to no effect from reforms
This. All the raging and cuntfaggotry means nil for them or the students.
Each state has its own needs, and its own issues. California's are not he same as wisconsions... YET.
>>55328945
>i agree there is too much focus on standardized testing
Honestly in my own eperiance the testing wasn't the worst part of it. I should say the actual test and testing isn't the biggest issue with testing. Let me explain.
OF the bad;
Testing in my school was done during the first week of May. So that leaves 2 weeks of testing and make up testing, and the next 6-8 weeks of learning that isn't tested. What is the point? Test them at the end of the year in June if you want to get a bead on what they've leared.
Testing is also pointless, when considering demographics.
IF you were just testing the 'model' students, you'd be able to gauge your teaching practices and curriculum failry, AND if all things being equal you could tell which teacher was doing better than others.
HOWEVER that demo is not even 1/4 of your classroom.
Lets talk about the blacks. Those that don't want to be in school and already have gang ties are not learning anything in school. The test is waste of time on their ability and the teachers. They MAYBE fill in their name and don't do shit afterwords. They don't even fill all C like someone who is guessing would do.
Lets talk about the transnationals. In my class room, being new, I got stuck with a large number of students straight from south of the border.
cont in a second
>>55330436
Said students from south of the border don't read or write any language. They started giving hte test in spanish, which is a shit idea IMHO, but it doesn't matter when little paco and pregnant maria don't read or write in anything.
New teachers stuck with these gypsies get shit results. Old tenure teachers with their choice in students get the best students and the best results. Test based evaluation is shit when you take this into account.
There is also a 3rd demographic that is increasing in size. The invalids.
Schools are now legally required to give an 'equal' education to every student, including timmy the tard. Some schools with funding will be able to provide resources to help these teachers teach little timmy, but now you have any other MAJOR drain on the budget. This drain is compounded when the courts have state that ALL SCHOOLS MUST provide accommodation for these kids.
The real shit is isn't just timmy the tard. I'd say about 4-5 kids in each class I had was diagnosed with something and on an IEP. (individualized education plan, essentially how to teach to little timmy). The add and adhd kids are everywhere hopped up on meth or downers and intrude on the peaceful classroom. Manic depressive kids, suicidal ones you couldn't give certain supplies to, actual clepto thieves - fucking every little shit invalid is FORCED to go to the school by the state and courts.
The fun ones are the violent emotionally disturbed kids. Literally got stabbed in the hand with scissors defending one retard from another.
Thread seems dead but I'll answer any other questions on my experience.
My old teachers all like the teachers union.
Symptom
>>55326587
Yeah, pretty much.
>>55331063
They probably were supported by them when they started, and then protected by them when shit hit the fan. I honestly can't blame them.
>>55331108
This. If we didn't have the other major flaws in our system destroying everything they would be fine, even useless.
But now they have every excuse to screech, and none of their actions can actually fix the cancer that is destroying our system / society as a whole.
>>55326587
All public unions should be banned and all public pension plans should be renegotiated on an individual basis. If we do this billions of dollars will be saved and whole cities will spared from bankruptcy.
>>55327940
>furthermore the absolute MOST she will ever get paid will be just barely 6 figures, and that's literally 20+ years from now.
That's should have come to a surprise when she started going to school.
>TEACHERS:
Not the problem
>UNIONS
Not so much all the problem on their own
>UNIONS & RELATIONSHIP WITH POLs
Most of the problem. Roundtripping money and influence to support far-too-sweet deals that defy economic responsibility.
The deals now are corrupt and harm us in terms of education and economics. It's fair for the people to push back a little - as the deal no longer i in our best interests. We just need future generations of teachers to get a deal that makes some sense in a free, competitive market.
>>55326727
Amen
>>55327940
America spends the most money per capita on education already. The system itself is broken.
>>55327940
60k for being a teacher? That should be the fucking maximum. no wonder there is no money for computers and desks
>>55326587
No, but teachers in general are degenerates.
>2 Months off strait a year
>Fall break, Christmas Vacation, Spring break
>no weekends
>Benefits that are better than pretty much anything in the private sector
>Can retire after 25 years with pension + ss
>Still cry about only making more than the average US citizen in salary
>INB4 all of their usual complaints
>I don't care that you have to take your work home, or that you end up working 50+ hours per week. This is not specific to teaching this is any white collar job.
They also have the general good will of the people. It is assumed that anybody successful deep down owes it to a teacher that inspired them. The truth is that how well you do in life really comes down to your natural intelligence, your motivation and your values.
I do not necessarily think they deserve a lot less than what they get, but they ABSOLUTELY should not get more. They need to shut up and be happy with their little free ride
Both of my parents were teachers too
