Marxism is NOT Keynesian economics.
Socialism is NOT big government.
It isn't welfare.
It isn't food stamps.
It isn't free medical care.
Socialism is the ownership of the means of production by the people. Neither Hillary Clinton nor Bernie Sanders, nor any American politician supports the people's right to own more than the surplus value of their labor--that is the means of production themselves, through a vanguard worker's Party. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea remains one of the few remaining countries in the world that is governed by the masses, not billionaires like Trump or the Koch Brothers.
Juche is self-reliance.
Songun is defense of the people against imperialist aggression above all else.
Together, these ideas have warded off the bombs of capitalist expansion. Only thus can major world issues such as global warming, drug addiction, war, famine, and poverty be resolved.
did u actually type all that shit baka senpai
>>55324720
>they only want to tax you to death!
>they don't want to own you i swear!
>>55325093
NO. There are no taxes in the DPRK. ALL value generated is for yourself and you own all production facilities and all property together with the rest of society.
Taxing to death is what liberals want. It's what Keynes wanted not what Marx advocated for!
>>55324720
finally someone has said it. stormfags listen to this. the people can't see the bigger picture because of their interest. minorities want rights so they vote for democrats and traditionalists vote for republicans because of their small-minded nature. no one actually realise that both the left and the right benefit the jew and get caught up in conflicts with "the other side".
that's jewish tactic 101, divide et impera. there's place in a society for everyone, but no one has to "more equal than the other" like most want.
the sad reality is that degeneracy has been pushed too far by the left these days, but it's not the fault of the political compass. in the ex-communist countries there were no minorities rights or welfare dwellers. there were other problem but the authoritarian regime took care of the lazy and put them work by force so everyone worked either because of convenience or fear. so did the nazis ( national socialism ). that what many people don't realise and what the juden has tried to push. by creating a difference between fascism and communism the jew has discredited fascism, when in reality the political platforms are very similar. the goal of communism was the common good of the people ( and they did that by destroying jewish monopolies ). the nazis did the same.
long story short there are 2 kinds of jews, right jews who rule through money and resources ( bankers, ceos, share-holders etc. ) ; and left jews who want to bring communism and rule the goyim through political measures rather than economic tools.
in the end there is no good or bad, it's a question of how much wealth the jew will want to spread to the people
>>55324720
Fuck off commie.
>>55325841
Do you even know what communism is? What socialism is? What Marxism-Leninism is? You live your life misguided, blinded by contradictions and soothed by fairy tales. Try proving me wrong if you are so right.
>>55324720
>through a vanguard worker's Party
Depends on the strand, but sure.
>The Democratic People's Republic of Korea remains one of the few remaining countries in the world that is governed by the masses, not billionaires like Trump or the Koch Brothers.
I was with you until I got to this.
Who the fuck owns things? Robots?
People own things. Some people own more things.
>>55325434
Judaism is irrelevant in this. The bourgeoisie go beyond any religious, ethnic or racial boundary. It is liberalism and the traditionalist rightists we must do away with. The people must govern themselves and own all production assets. Only then can they be free from the exploitation of elitist slave driving labor. Every country in the world should oppose the doctrine of Capitalism and move on to the future that is Juche.
>>55325841
>>55326040
>>55326155
I really want to watch this evolve into a conversation but it is unlikely.
>>55326252
What if you own the things that make things though? Like natural resources, productive machined etc.
>>55326252
People own things: wallets, guns, computers, chewing gum, etc. That's personal property.
In Korea, there is no private property--meaning you can't own the means of production, apart from everyone else. Everyone owns the land, has a right to factories, bodies of water, resources, etc. from which we get the raw material to either make products (which becomes personal property) or do international trade with.
>>55326295
Meh, I'm not in the mood for a big conversation about it. I'm just dropping my two cents today. It's been awhile since I was last on here to be honest.
the DPRK is fascist
juche is a shit ideology
libertarian socialism is the only good type of socialism
>>55326603
"Fascist"...yet...
>has elections every 6 years
>has 4 major parties
>has a socialist economy (which fascists oppose)
>has never invaded, exploited or oppressed any people
Wait...do you know what fascism is? Seems to me the U.S fits the criteria better than the DPRK.
Libertarian Socialism isn't practical (and hasn't worked so far) because capitalist nations (with their centralized governments and powerful armies), would quickly swoop down and destroy any attempt at a socialist revolution.
>>55326603
No one ever says anything about Thailand's dictatorship through its royal family. Hm...I wonder if it might be that Thailand isn't socialist.
(Juche is actually a very sound ideology btw)
>>55326287
>shill detected.
you last statement is true, however unrealistic. maybe someday when will build cities from scratch here or on other planets. you see in the beggining peolpe were pretty communist ( in the sharing way, the the dictator and the party oppressing everyone way ). that did carry over to city states. then we had imperialism and feudalism which were flawed from the beggining .and then cappitalism occured because of convenience. and because of it the european civilization sky-rocketed and left the arabic culture which was not capitalist in nature behind in the dust ( literally ). but within this system the jews managed to find their way to power by accumulating wealth.
however the jews have always found their way through power before capitalism. one such way was by managing the trading system ( they increased, decreased price and chose buyers and sellers as they saw fit ), or by pushing their semitic religion(s) ( 2 good examples are christianity and islam, whose wised prophets are kinda jew shills. and another good example is judaism. they converted few other people but they did that, thats why we see many white jews today, it because of the judaism ideological nature. and by converting those the elders who were the ones behind everything used every newly converted to achieve their goals ).
judaism is irrelevant these days, a jew shill can be a christian, an atheist or a practicing jew, his ideology is the problem. also a lot of the things that are happening today are benefiting the jewish elite more that the "common jew" ( upper middle class; better condition that goyim but much worse than the elite's )
>>55327419
I oppose Israel's nationalistic claims in Palestine, of course, but I don't hate Jews for being Jews. I hate some Jews for acting like Nazis. All idealism should be opposed (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and others included in this), and we should understand the materialist, dialectical nature of our universe.
Wow, your misunderstandings are quite significant. Dictators oppressing people is a fascist characteristic, not a communist one. Capitalism didn't just sprout out of nowhere because of convenience. There were capitalist revolutionaries opposing feudal landlords and kings, which then brought about bourgeois liberal democracy (which we have to this day.)
European slave-trade and North American colonialism is what really expanded its horizons technologically. Jews have a history of accumulating wealth because of the practice and ban on usury, by the Catholic Church. Had it not been for this, Jews wouldn't have gotten a reputation as money lenders.
Wow...Enver Hoxha is that you? hahaha stop being racist and anti-semetic. Jews are only one small part to a much larger story.
>>55324720
>He says this
>From his nice comfy home/basement in the US
If you really believed that drivel, surely you'd be better off taking a walk to the nearest DPRK embassy and saying "I wish to defect to the DPRK".
Or you can take a trip to the DMZ and hop across the border.
I'm sure they'd be happy to have you. Or not.
>>55328151
>thinks I can just easily defect
>doesn't understand the huge process to do this
>thinks I'm living comfortably
>doesn't take into account that I have friends and family here and in Mexico and don't even know the Korean language to be at home in Korea
If I try to illegally enter North Korea, I will be shot...by South Korea (it has happened before when South Koreans try to enter the North). North Korea arrests or reports illegal immigrants. And there is no North Korean embassy here.
>>55328536
What are the good communist parties in the USA? What do you think America's way to Socialism could look like?
>>55328536
Go stand outside the home depot and try to make something of yourself
>>55324720
the people own the means of production, just not the lower level workers. Socialism is the state owning the means of production, despite what they try and sell you.
>>55324720
the "means" of production
means, according to dictionary -
1.) money financial resources.
2.) resources, capability
3.) wealth
You cannot earn more than the value of your labor. This is basic economics. It doesn't work. Never has, and it never will.
>>55328998
Racism is the lazy fascists way of avoiding productive discussion which would prove you wrong. You know capitalism is wrong but you support it anyway because you benefit from it.
>>55329069
Lower level workers actually have historically done better under socialism than under capitalism. It's why Cuba and North Korea have 0% child malnutrition and countries like Ethiopia and the U.S have huge malnutrition and starvation problems.
>>55329086
This isn't about what you earn in your work. It's rather about what you own. Many people don't work because of the passive income their assets make.
Shut the fuck up you brainwashed socialist idealistic sheep
>>55326926
>has elections every 6 years
"elections" that kim by coincidence always wins with a 90%+ majority
>has 4 major parties
all of them are puppets
>has a socialist economy
have you ever read anything made by marx or are you just an edgy 14 year old tumblrite who supports NK because its le edgy and contrarian?
the north korean economy is state capitalist
>has never invaded, exploited or oppressed any people
NK is oppressing its own people
>Wait...do you know what fascism is? Seems to me the U.S fits the criteria better than the DPRK.
yup, 14 year old edgelord who supports NK just because "le anti america xD"
"Libertarian Socialism isn't practical (and hasn't worked so far) because capitalist nations (with their centralized governments and powerful armies), would quickly swoop down and destroy any attempt at a socialist revolution."
this could be said about any revolution
whats impractical about libertarian socialism btw
>>55329086
Socialism isn't about getting more than the value of what we work. It's using the surplus value of our work for ourselves, rather than have some boss or owner reap all the profits that the workers produced.
By "means of production" we mean land, factories, rivers, machinery, etc. from which wealth is generated from, not the wealth itself. It's not handing out money, it's allowing people to work so they can sustain themselves, rather than having perpetual unemployment like in the U.S. How much unemployment and homelessness do you think there is in North Korea? Come one, guess!
>>55326926
>has 4 major parties
and you are delusional. JFC.
>>55329657
You're not a gangster in American movies. Calm down.
>>55329676
You'd be surprised what good leadership causes! People actually like you when you lead well. FDR had 4 terms and Reagan won by around 87%. It really isn't super crazy that the grandson of an extremely popular leader gets elected as well. And he's only gotten elected once. And he's the Marshal--just 1 executive among 3.
No, I hate Tumblr because it's full of liberals and SJWs. Do you even have a real argument here? All I see are insults. There is no evidence that anyone is being oppressed and "state capitalism" describes China, not the DPRK. The special economic zones are the only hint of Capitalism in the DPRK.
>>55329786
If north Korea is such a socialist utopia, why don't you just move there? It should be great!
>>55329875
You called me delusional over the internet. That has changed my mind and now I will opt to not be delusional and accept whatever CNN tells me and I'll favor capitalism even If we have a recession every 17 years and causes wars, poverty and the death of millions from preventable diseases. #Trump 2016
> B-but it's not real socialism : the thread
>>55330339
I have all my family and friends here and I don't speak Korean and It isn't at all easy to go over there. I don't have the money, time or planning necessary to go there, even if I did know Korean and had a place to live over there.
>>55330339
It isn't a utopia though. I didn't claim it was. It has its problems, of course, but it isn't what we think it is and It's socialist system is far superior than capitalism.
>>55329445
Did you seriously just call racism when nothing racial was said at all? You're a walking repository of lefty memes.
>>55330482
It IS real socialism and there's nothing massively wrong with the country.
>>55330637
I said I was Mexican-American and you said to stand outside of Home Depot (a stereotypical place associated with poor Mexican American workers). Maybe racist wasn't the right word. Xenophobic? Either way, you have an insult, not an argument. You're wrong or have yet to prove your point.
>>55329657
Ok sorry for bothering you.
Lol I posted on 4chan. I didn't scream into your ear. Why don't you prove me wrong if you think North Korea's so bad? Whoops, what's that? All your sources come from their #1 enemy? No objective media? Ahhhh...interesting.
>>55330799
1. I'm not the guy who said it :^)
2. Mexican is not a race
3. Home depot sounds like a great place to get a job if you don't have the qualifications for other work. He's telling you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and implying that everyone else should, too.
I'm all for socialism with strong nationalism, myself, in case you had me pinned as a capitalist pigdoggy or whatever.
>>55329543
or maybe because they have no international oversight so they can just make up whatever statistics they like
>>55331442
No, these statistics were generated by UNICEF. Check their official website.
>>55329786
>Socialism isn't about getting more than the value of what we work. It's using the surplus value of our work for ourselves, rather than have some boss or owner reap all the profits that the workers produced.
It goes both ways. The "boss" doesn't reap only profits. Very often businesses fail and drag down a lot of investor money with them. Wage workers are isolated from this instability. What they've been working on for the last 6 months could end up in a landfill, they'll still be paid for their work.
>How much unemployment and homelessness do you think there is in North Korea? Come one, guess!
Could be zero. Doesn't mean people's lives are good.
>>55324720
Fuck off
>>55333186
North Korea as a country is poor and far from perfect because of economic sanctions placed on it and because it's barred from lending from the World Bank and being part of international trade organizations. It's not socialism that makes a country poor. Capitalism is a competing economic system that wants Socialism to go away forever. OF COURSE they want everyone to think it leads to poverty! If any socialist experiment is to be carried out, it should be without the disadvantage of having most of the world pointing guns and missiles at your country and making you seem paranoid and militaristic for trying to defend it.
>>55333186
What on earth is the point of having lakes and rivers in the legend if they aren't on the map?
>>55333862
...and there's no source for the map either. Where did it come from? Wow.
>>55334075
there's certainly something fishy going on about this place
