>>55322053
Because I graduated from high school already.
>>55322083
/thread
Talk to me when you figure out a way to bring us post-scarcity, OP.
>>55322053
I have a basic understanding of economics
>>55322053
God.
>>55322053
>shilling for a judeo bolshevist ideology on /pol/
>>55322053
>millions killed by communism
>the poor get even poorer
>work for dictator at gunpoint
nah fuck you faggot.
its funny how the homosexuals that even dare to speak well of communism are spoiled privileged children that own ipods, go to starbucks, live in a country that never experienced it (usa) and have money from mommy and daddy or welfare.
go try to live in venezuela or cuba for a week faggot
Man, I had to argue here last night with some stupid commie australian with zero knowledge of history.
>>55322129
Human needs could be better served by participatory democratic planning than by a market system dominated by a small elite. Market capitalism encourages firms to pump up unnecessary consumption full of negative externalities in order to grow profits. Consider how marketing creates an artificial demand for unhealthy fattening food while cheaper food is actually better for us and closer to our natural desires. Capitalists encourage massive wasteful spending through their ties to the state, primarily through the military industrial complex. Communism means a stateless and classless society.
>>55322053
because I'm not a secular Jew
>>55322244
I don't own an ipod or go to Starbucks, but there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, so I really don't care what kind of electronics and drinks workers buy, outside of an organized union strike/boycott situation.
Venezuela and Cuba have state-capitalist economies. The government, not the workers themselves, owns the means of production.
>>55322548
Me neither, but secular Jews tend to be well educated, high IQ, skilled professionals, well connected, etc. They are good people to know.
>>55322243
>>55322894
Good lord why is /leftypol/ flooding into here.
Your memes are shit and horribly photoshopped.
Go raid /his/ if you so well please.
Kike
>>55322961
>>55322894
>National socialism was manipulated by capitalists
Is this what they teach in American schools?
>>55322503
>market system dominated by a small elite
like the small elite class of bureaucrats who run the commie shitshow? I must have skipped the class in ECON1001 when they talked about the group of elites who have control over the fucking free market
>Consider how marketing creates an artificial demand for unhealthy fattening food while cheaper food is actually better for us and closer to our natural desires
Except that's wrong though, you dunce. Our natural desire is for fatty, sugary, incredibly unhealthy food; because such food was uncommon before agriculture, and early humans stood to benefit by eating a shitload of it whenever they had the opportunity. I know I'm arguing semantics, but fuck. If your argument is that advertising is evil because people are too stupid to think critically, then your "power to the people" case is self-defeating.
>using the term "military industrial complex" unironically
highschooler confirmed
>Communism means a stateless and classless society
Please refer to my original reply. Come back and try again when you have a method of cheapening energy and automating production to the point of post-scarcity - then we can talk about making your red star wet dream into a reality.
>>55323093
Straw men is a great way to argue.
Let me try.
>>55322053
because i am not a homo
>>55322053
Tried but ended up with spurdo
Because it thinks human nature can be malleable.
>>55322053
if /pol/ is right I probably already am
>>55323406
You guys have euroshopper energy? Holy shit takes me back.
>>55323119
Schools in the US are pro-capitalist and highly segregated by class and race. They are anti-communist.
I was expelled from high school three times.
The Nazi regime benefited the capitalist class (at least until is collapsed under total war).
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/04/capitalism-and-nazism/
>>55323119
apparently corporate entities profit from keeping a flood of low wage low skill immigrants from entering the country
>>55323523
We do :) Good memories I hope?
>>55322053
Because I'm heterosexual
>>55323574
>I was expelled three times
Ah, so now I understand your angst, lack of proper education, and determination for radical ideologies.
We are quite literally dealing with, a moron.
I'm so glad people like you will never actually get anywhere in life, as I sit here in my 98% white college that the graduates of comprise a large portion of the Supreme Court clerks and state department officals.
>>55323574
>independent rational agents capitalising on an opportunity makes them evil nazis
Do you hate nature, anon?
>>55323718
Kek always.
>>55323770
communist doctrine denies nature by asserting that we are all equal
>>55322152
This
"Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried" - Winston Churchill
>>55323574
>I was expelled from high school three times.
That says a lot about you, leftypol
Also
>jacobinmag
I know that website. Do you think it is unbiased?
National socialist Germany definitely wasn't communist but was very far from being a pure capitalist regime. It would be best describe as, unsurprisingly, socialist
>>55323626
Marxists really believe this?
>>55323862
Churchill is a Zionist faggot and wrong.
Democracy is the absolute worse system, I don't care about forms of government.
I'm surprised by the lack of Traditionalists on /pol/.
>>55323626
Corporations want immigrants to come in, but have no rights, no unions, etc. Business owners want to create a permanent underclass in order to drive down wages.
Closing the borders to humans but allowing the free flow of goods just means a race to the bottom as capital moves to wherever it can most effectively exploit labor.
It is in the interests of all workers to unite and overthrow their masters.
>>55322053
I was a marxist. Then I grew up.
>>55322053
Because all the work one cares to add will not turn a mud pie into an apple tart; it remains a mud pie, value zero.
>>55323763
Eh, instead of wasting my time in college going into debt to be indoctrinated with bullshit white guilt identity politics "social justice warrior" nonsense, I spent my time learning useful skills. I charge $100 an hour for software engineering consulting. I get to spend most of my time fucking around on 4chan, having sex with my Jewish wife, traveling, etc. I have it pretty good, but I know that capitalism can't provide this lifestyle for everyone. A more fair and equal world would benefit us all.
>>55324008
Do you actually think that the poor ad the working class benefit from open borders?
You know that they are the first ones who suffer from it, while the 1% can gain more and more profits from the suffering of people? Are you literally blind?
You claim to want unions and no exploitation. We had a system like that back in '22 and it worked wonders. I'll let you discover what it's called
>>55324008
>Corporations want immigrants to come in
That's exactly what he's saying, anon. It's astounding that you can believe that NatSoc is the result of capitalist shenanigans, while simultaneously recognising that NatSoc damages corporations.
Orwell was 100% right, doublethink is real.
>>55322053
Because 4chan wouln't have existed in a marxist society.
>>55324008
Why can workers not just formulate their own businesses and establish their own worker owned companies like Winco. did?
Or would that be hard for a bunch of uneducated shits like Marxists are?
Anyway, trying to organize cooperation between that many people is impossible, there must always be a leader.
You are trying to destroy fundemental human nature.
Prefer Nat socialism desu
Because I went a step further-
I became Jewish! :)
>>55324266
Define fair and equal.
You have no right to try and make me equal to those unwashed shits below me.
>I get payed $100 as a software consultant
Complaining about the capitalist system and exploiting the working classes.
Such hypocrisy.
>>55322053
With jews you lose
Do you think it's just a coincidence that capitalist countries have much better quality of life the socialist countries?
Seriously, how do you explain North Korea being shit compared to South Korea? They were basically identical before they split, and now look at them.
>>55324304
Orwell was a left-democratic socialist with council communist and anarcho-syndicalist sympathies.
Immigration without rights is, as Bernie Sanders put it, a "Koch brothers proposal".
Immigration with some rights, but the continued flow of capital is the liberal position.
No immigration and the free flow of capital is the paleoconservative position and completely ignores the power the corporations will continue to have until we carry out a socialist revolution. It isn't tennible in the real world and in actual practice defaults to the first position: "illegal immigration without rights".
Attacking neoliberalism at the source, by stopping the free flow of capital is the leftist position. It is the only policy that can help workers avoid a race to the bottom.
>>55324557
Something something oppression
Something something Marxism is fact just read scientific socialism by Bill Engballs aka my overlord
>>55323406
that energy was/is the golden crown on cheap sugar
>>55322053
Because I'm not a traitorous scum to my people besides them being oblivious to their own planned destruction. Because not being a marxist doesn't mean shilling for the great capital and the international usury (a thing that Marxists never opposed on practice), because you can be a free market socialist who believes in individual property and not a Marxist. Etc.
>>55324379
The same game describes Marx as a calm and rational individual that respected people.
kek
>rape the maid
>give her a child
>refuse to endorse him
>kicks maid out
>muh oppression gimmy money Engles
Because I have read Orwell
>>55322894
Back to 8gag autistic kike shill
>>55324645
>Muh Koch brothers
Would you like to talk about your friend and lover George Soros?
Or Bill Gates?
Or Warren Buffet?
No. Of course not.
Only
>Muh Koch brothers
Said the fiend who was expelled from highschool three times.
>>55324645
>Immigration without rights is, as Bernie Sanders put it, a "Koch brothers proposal".
>Immigration with some rights, but the continued flow of capital is the liberal position.
rights are not provided but protected
Communism breeds just as much, if not more corruption than capitalism.
Capitalism is the right way to go, but it does need to be refreshed. We're at the stage in our lives where we need to reset everything.
>>55322244
This.
Its always spoiled western kids who are sitting as first semesters in humanities studies and act like smartasses.
And it gets even more cringeworthy when they want to educate older people who lived and sufferend under communistic rule about " the superiority of Communism "
>>55324360
I actually founded a successful worker owned and self-managed cooperate. They aren't a bad idea, and if they can coordinate with the organized labor movement can give us a little bit of breathing room within capitalism.
However, the bottom 80% of households in the US have less than 4.7% of the financial wealth. We simply don't have the capital to make that kind of investment. So we are forced to work for the people who own (and generally inherited) capital. The wage system is the root of the problem.
As for leadership/management, skilled people can generally self-mange. Consider partnerships in law and medicine, the "agile" teams in software development, etc. The only people who need to be bossed around are people who have been shit on their whole lives, have no stake in the success of a firm, have no hope for the future, have been intellectually stunted and psychologically damaged by poverty, etc. Eliminate inequality, maybe throw in a little eugenics, and we will be able to create a society with nearly full self-management. The few remaining positions of power can be democratically elected and subject to recall by councils of workers and consumers.
>>55324645
You still haven't explained how national socialism would be capitalist. Is it because they cared about their own and had borders?
Is the very notion of a nation in contrast with marxism? I think I already know the answer
>>55324963
>bullshit
>the post
Kek.
>Proves the capitalist system works and profits from it and exploits the lower class
>claims it doesn't work
You just can't make this shit up.
>>55322083
Ebin meme
>>55324504
A fair system would be one where those who produce the wealth of society get to own it.
I certainly benefit from being in a position to more closely act in the interests of owners without needing direct managerial oversight. I'd rather not be in poverty and not have to slave away for most of my adult life. However, I do see it all as quite unfair. I'd gladly accept a low rate and more hours if it meant I did not have to live surrounded by poverty, every day witnessing a tragic waste of human potential. The best way I have found for getting there is through worker organization and socialist revolution.
>>55322152
Marx was a founder of modern economics
>>55324645
>I agree with Orwell on some points, particularly authority and the pervasiveness of cognitive dissonance
>must mean I agree with him on everything, right?
>stopping the free flow of capital
And here we reach the critical argument, because all you leftists and socialists and marxists and communists and progressives and hippies and liberals at your #occupy rallies seem to think that the rich just have giant Scrooge McDuckian vaults of gold which they'll just add to from time to time. You're all wrong, pic very much fucking related. Capital is invested back into their big evil corporations, creating big evil job opportunities, big evil promotions for middle management and big evil increases to working conditions. It doesn't make sense to hoard capital when putting to work for you is the winning strategy. This is the "growth" part of "profitable growth" that you would have learned all about if you'd bothered to learn any modicum of business or economic theory beyond the ramblings of a man who never worked a real day in his life and was often so broke he had to pawn his trousers to pay the rent.
>>55322244
Memes and strawmen: the post
>le ebin entitled hipster librul arts iPhone coffee meme
>le hurrr le move to le North Korea
North Korea isn't even pretending to be Marxist, or even Leninist. Look up Juche.
>>55324557
If you want to learn about how and why South Korea was so successful, you should read Ha-Joon Chang. Basically, they had the benefit of access to OECD markets but were allowed due to cold war politics, to defy the neoliberal consensus of "free trade". SK had a highly protectionist economic with infant industry protection, the death penalty for capital flight, etc. North Korea had a closed off state-capitalist economy attempting autarky and largely failing.
Moreover, the most successful countries (outside a few small niches like Hong Kong) are more social-democratic, not more free market. Strong unions, low wealth and income gini indices, high taxes, a strong public sector, successful reformist "socialist/social-democratic/labor" parties, all lead to a capitalism that benefits more people than the sort of capitalism you get when you allow a small business elite to run everything with no checks and balances.
>>55324379
>Charles Darwin
>Karl Marx
Wait, that can't be right...
>>55325149
I have no problem with people being rich, but it does concern me the .01% of people holding a massive amount of wealth. Them being rich isn't the problem, it's them hording mass amounts of money AND manipulating the government. Now it's affecting my life in a major way.
I don't give a fuck about some dude named Josh that owns a million dollar watch and fifteen cars. He earned it. But he's not even up there with the people that control shit.
The people that need to be reeled in are the ones that have so much money that money isn't even a thing anymore.
Whatever you want to call them. The Elite. The Globalists. The Illuminati. The Jews. The Masons. The Templar. Whatever you want to call them, it's the top of the top that gets away with too much shit.
>>55322053
But we are, anon.
>>55322053
What are the great successes of Marxism? It has been around for a while. Surely it has a long list of glorious victories.
>>55322129
Basically this, no post scarcity, no Marxism/communism for you kids.
>>55324652
Yes, I agree with Chomsky that calling Marxism "science" is a bit absurd. All economics, Marxist, Chicago, Austrian, Keynesian, etc, are voodoo, and not based on empirical understanding of the world.
However, Marx was a great polemicist. I use "Marxism" here as a stand in for the far-left. I might have used "anarchism" but that term has been totally polluted by SJWs, free-marketers, nihilists, even fascists, etc in recent years.
>>55322053
Because I don't wear fedoras
>>55324676
>a free market socialist who believes in individual property and not a Marxist
So you like Proudhon? You are from Spain? What do you think about the 1930s CNT?
>>55325176
Not really. Even if he was though, modern economics doesn't use him at all.
>>55325474
Why not ? If we forget all that Ubisoft Templar/Assassins Shit for a Moment..
Charles Darwin 1809 - 1882
Karl Marx 1818 - 1883
Both lived in London and that games takes place in London 1868.
>>55324684
Marx has basically an autist autodidact and a crust-punk oogle. He spent his days reading labor statistics in the public library while his children died of malnutrition. Of course all this is ad-hominem and has nothing to do with the validity of his critique of capitalism.
>>55324737
You know Orwell fought for the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification militia in the Spanish Civil War, right?
Read Homage to Catalonia.
>>55324797
Yes, there are liberal and conservative capitalists. All are enemies of the workers. What is your point?
>communism will save europe
>by forcing europeans to give all their money to refugees
>>55325813
>Darwinism: "survival of the fittest". A self-evident, obvious and natural phenomenon
>Marxism: "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs". A completely artificial principle, nice to dream about but impractical and immoral upon closer inspection
They couldn't be more different, ideologically. If Darwin was a political mover, he would have been big on the free market.
>>55324939
I'm well past college years.
Only small experiments in communism (revolutionary Catalonia, the Nabat, etc) have existed so far and very few people who witnessed them are alive today. The states which called themselves "socialist" and were ruled by "Communist" parties were, in fact state-capitalist. Even Lenin explicitly acknowledged he was developing capitalism when he introduced the NEP.
Follow me.
>>55325012
In practice "national socialism" has meant dividing workers by ethnicity while the ruling class profits.
Social-democratic and reformist attempts democratic socialism have faced problems with capital flight, outside sponsorship of coups, lack of access to credit on international markets, etc. Socialism will need to be build globally.
>>55325149
>those who produce get to own
So you don't actually have any understanding how overhead or a company works.
>>55324939
>Math tutor is a Russian expat, lived in the Soviet Union until its collapse and immediately fled (his words, not mine) to Australia
>One day ask him what he thinks of the Socialist Alternative Society which is always handing out fliers and bugging people on the quad
>"It makes my blood boil that they can wear a hammer and sickle on their shirt proudly, while you or I could be arrested for wearing a swastika the same way. To me, they're the same."
>Still friends, we catch up now and then and talk smack about autistic commies
>>55326437
>while the ruling class profits.
Yet it isn't true. Everyone in nazi Germany had right to a home, had a job and a good life standard
>Not knowing that the EU is slowly turning into the EUSSR
>>55326437
>dividing workers by ethnicity while ruling class profits
So you have no actual concept of National Socialism.
Hilarious.
Maybe you should read some fascist literature and drop your stupid enamorations with your artifical classes.
Not Liberty, Equality, but faternity.
>>55326255
>/leftypol/
Back to cripplechan
>>55326437
>dividing workers by ethnicity
You can't divide something which isn't in the nation
>while the ruling class profits.
Are you retarded?
>>55322053
>Portugal
>>55325282
What good is growth if nearly all gains are taken by a small elite?
I'm sure you saw the news that middle aged white working class people in the US are seeing a rise in mortality. That is pretty staggering considering the economic growth and medical advances being made. Capitalism is literally killing us.
>>55326684
What?
>>55326437
>blah blah blah MUH WORKERS
Fuck off you poor retard, maybe you wouldn't be so bitter at the ebil rich if you didn't fail high school.
>>55326584
Except Islamic
>>55322053
Cuz I don'r have daddy issues.
>>55322053
Because I've read more than the manifesto for the communist party.
>>55326860
And laissez-faire capitalist (after TTIP)...
>>55325545
The super-rich are a problem, yes, but overall the petite-bourgeois (small business owners and professionals with enough invested that they have a stake in the market) as a whole have more wealth than the billionaires. The top 90-99% percentile in the US still has more total wealth than the top 100 percentile. Moreover, even those top 1%ers are still mostly doctors, lawyers, middle managers, and small business owners, not corporate executives, hedge fund managers, or trust fund playboys.
It is intellectually comforting to blame a few people sitting in a secret room ruling the world, but reality is far scarier. Millions of people benefit from capitalism, but depend on exploiting you.
Marxism is a tool by which the ruthless and cunning can make use of Useful Idiots to become dictators. Anyone who supports communism is either a useful idiot or dangerous fascist using said useful idiots to pave their way to power.
How many times does this pattern have to occur before you stop thinking being a commie is a good idea?
>>55326126
I dont know how Ubisoft implented them or their Ideas in the Game but for sure they are doing some Bullshit Stuff about Freedom by the Assassins against the evil Templars like in the previous games except Rougue.
>>55322053
>Why aren't you a Marxist yet?
Because unlike you champagne socialists, I actually lived in a socialist country that worshipped that Jew. And it sucked ass.
How the fuck can people like OP still exist? How can you ignore a century of facts and history
Cant believe thread went so far without the Russia / Jamal greentext
>>55327037
Holy kek this delusion
>everyone is participating to exploit the lower classes
So you understand you will be killed in this revolution that you are advocating?
>>55326714
There are plenty of solutions to this that could be employed within the capitalist system. The middle class needs to stop fucking shrinking, you red scum. This means fighting globalism by incentivising local employment over labour outsourcing, lowering corporate taxes, giving tax breaks to small businesses, etc.
Oddly enough, the left seems to oppose all of these policies...
>>55326219
Ah here it is the all time favourite argument of " It hasnt really be done yet ! "
Seems that 100 million Dead arent enough...
>>55327037
Look past your hatred of people with money. It's a means to an end and not worth being jealous of.
Look to something bigger. Your family. Your nation. Your race. Then, perhaps, you can decipher Marx for the Jewish lies he wrote.
We're already half way there
>>55327129
This happens when people live an almost sorrow free live in a society with cheap products which everybody can buy, general high living standard, freedom of speech, free education and countless other things brought by capitalism.
Bored spoiled western children without a real purpose in life are acting like Suburbia Che Gueveras
>>55325610
The labor movement has taken a big hit over the past-40 years, but unions did more to help workers than anything else. The most militant fighting unions all had leaders influenced by Marxism.
Before it was Stalinized, the USSR was a real improvement over the Czar.
For all it's flaws and sellouts, the weird state-capitalist system in China has Marxist roots and is the reason for the biggest rise in standard of living in human history. The growth in China, for all it's continued exploitation, has done more to alleviate poverty than anything else. Compare it to market-capitalist post-colonial India, the brutal inequality of Latin America and the Caribbean (largely due to the legacy of US meddling), and the ignorant clusterfuck of sub-Saharan Africa.
Marxist influenced labor and social-democratic parties in Europe have built social-welfare systems that have, even after decades of neoliberal attack, allowed greater equality and prosperity.
Marxist anti-colonial movements liberated the third world from direct domination by the major world powers. Of course many have been re-enslaved by dept, multinational corporate influence, US backed coups against democratically elected leaders, internal corruption, etc...but the general rule has been that those allowed their own path to development have done better.
More cynically I will say that Marxists have been successful at destroying other forces on the left: anarchism, syndicalism, mutualism, etc. This is unfortunate (as I am sympathetic to the above), but does how how powerful Marxism can be.
>>55327636
>the USSR, China and unions (the most corrupt entities still functional in the western world today, where the leaders like in opulent luxury) are the greatest achievements of Marxism.
Idiot.
>>55327636
>Before it was Stalinized, the USSR was a real improvement over the Czar
No. Fuck off you retard
>>55325638
We already produce more than we need. The problem is distribution. GDP per worker in the developed world is pushing six $ figures per year. I actually am not a Luddite and am OK with continued growth (so long as environmental concerns are addressed), but the real problem for industrialized societies is inequality, not lack of growth.
>>55327636
Yeah just forget the greatest mass murderer of all times called Chairman Mao who killed at least 60 Million of his own people and all the others suffering under communism also in your " liberated " third world countries.
>>55326126
Kropotkin reconciled communism and evolution.
>>55323258
>hurrrr all socialism is Soviet bureaucracy
Nice strawman
>>55327841
Face it, you fucked up high school and now you feel entitled to more than your burger flipping job.
You'll never get what you think you deserve.. I imagine you'll grow up eventually, however.
>>55327636
>Before it was Stalinized, the USSR was a real improvement over the Czar.
>>55322681
L
M
A
O
At any of those being capitalism's fault
>>55322961
You're not representative of the board anime-watching cunt.
>>55327188
Here you go.
>>55323574
This
>>55326514
What do you think about Nestor Makhno, who was a communist who fought against both the Red Army and the reactionaries?
>>55327188
There you go.
>>55323763
>getting expelled makes you stupid
That statement says more about your stupidity than his.
>>55323859
No it doesn't.
>>55326569
My grandparents grew up in Nazi Germany, were Aryans, and experienced extreme poverty. Starting wars is a great way to pump up the short term numbers, but totally destroy your society when the bill comes due and you run out of easy enemies to loot.
>>55327636
>Marxist influenced labor and social-democratic parties in Europe have built social-welfare systems that have, even after decades of neoliberal attack, allowed greater equality and prosperity.
>Socialism stems from marxism guise! It's our accomplishment
>Not national socialism however, because they are big meanies
Listen faggot, my family lived under fascist rule. You marxists supposedly hate fascism right?
Yet most socialist measures such as free schooling, pensions, free education, etc. were all introduced by Benito Mussolini and it's fascist regime.
Go look it up if you don't believe me.
Now tell me that Mussolini was influenced by marxism, I dare you
>>55328119
Good lord this guy is a pathological liar.
>>55328003
Yes, he really is. Commieshits - while tolerated in the spirit of free speech, hugboxlessness and shitposting - are seldom celebrated here.
>>55326607
Sure, there were leftist Nazis, but they were defeated by their own party. Hitler had Röhm assassinated. Goebbels used leftie rhetoric, but his own private accounts show he was engaged in deliberate deception. The rest of the Nazis in power were conservative pro-capitalists. They called themselves socialists, but hunted down all the labor organizers, left academics, anarchists, communists, social democrats, etc.
>>55324557
One of them got smashed with sanctions and another got tons of support from the West. Also DPRK is state capitalist.
>>55328119
Of course they experienced poverty in the end. You lost the fucking war and had no economy and no industry left what so ever.
>>55328083
Oh look another marxist shit from /leftypol/ trying to back eachother up.
How cute.
If you get expelled from school you're a fucking moron. End of story, I've gotten caught for numerous shit that I should have gotten expelled for but could wiggle my way around my good relations with the staff to get out of it.
>>55324557
>Venezuela
>socialist
Did anyone advocate Venezuelan policies here? If not then fuck off with your strawman.
>>55322503
>the face when you don't realize nationalism is the way forward, and the future of your country, nation and race depend upon its resurgence.
Why even live?
>>55328366
So you think the National Socialists could have gotten elected without the vote of 6 million communists in Germany?
Have you read any of his speeches or any of his policy?
No, you cherry pick privitization passages from /leftypol/ like a moron and come and shill here.
>>55328367
North Korea got loads of support from the Soviet Union.
>>55322053
I'm not retarded and actually old enough to remember my parent waiting in line to buy basic shit.
>>55328366
>labor organizers, left academics, anarchists, communists, social democrats, etc.
So... The scum of society. We don't care. Grow up. Your trying to rationalize while you get blown the fuck out at every turn is somewhat amusing however.
>>55328437
Ah yes, no true Scotsman.
Funny how you can never get around those pesky majority BAD examples of socialism.
>>55322053
We tried it once. It was terrible
>>55322152
VooDoo economics
>>55324938
Smart post
>>55328035
Anarchism of any kind - but especially anarcho-communism - is just a 17 year old's pipe dream. Without a government that at the very least taxes the people in order to provide a well-trained and well-stocked military, your fantasy country is going to be conquered by its neighbors. Oh hey, look at that - that's exactly what happened in Catalonia and Nabat!
>>55328574
>doesn't have any concept of economics
>calls it voodoo
>>55327203
My dream is a revolution so radical that even I am guillotined as a reactionary! /s
But seriously, small owners are free to join the working class as equals. All they have to do is give up their ill-gotten wealth. Also, even though I am well paid, I choose not to bill many hours, so I haven't accumulated any wealth personally. I'm basically too lazy to enter the petite-bourgeois.
>>55327931
Socialism necessitates beurocracy.
>>55328588
I can't believe you have the autism to be here.
You've done this for consecutive months, scanning the catalog for these threads and autistically going through giving one line replies like an actual basement dwelling autist.
>>55322053
>lies
Leftists are the biggest liars on the planet. Their whole ideaology is about indocrinating people to replace logic with lies.
Better dead than red.
>>55328661
This is the most delusional post I've ever read.
>>55326714
So your problem is that while you're better off than you would be 30 years ago, other people are even more better off, and that's just not fair.
>>55328642
Trickle Down economics
which doesn't work
even republicans are saying that
I have a basic understanding of medicine, that doesn't make me a doctor
>>55328661
>small business owners
>ill-gotten wealth
Holy shit, do you hear yourself? This is by far the worst case of crab mentality I've ever seen.
>>55322053
Because I am not a mongoloid.
>>55328905
>Trickle Down economics
>which doesn't work
>even republicans are saying that
Who is advocating for "trickle down economics"?
That is government enforced monopolies.
This doesn't make all form of economic analysis "voodoo" faggot.
>>55327206
Lowering corporate taxes would just mean that the rich would take lower salaries and do more of their personal spending with company expense accounts. They would still keep the money for themselves. Corporate taxes need to be fairly close to income taxes to avoid the inefficiency of encouraging this soft quasi-legal in-practice-unprosecutable sort of fraud.
Small businesses are already massively artificially subsidized by the state. The capitalist class loves an insulating layer between themselves and the workers. They need to give enough smart and hard working people a stake in the system so that they don't organize with workers in favor of revolt. How much further can big business bribe small business? At some point is just becomes absurd and inefficient. A nation with a more centralized economy which can take advantage of the econ of scale will kick your ass. China has already done this to some extent.
>>55328905
reaganomics =/= real trickle down theory
Fuck, I'm starting to sound like a communist.
>>55329028
At this point it's just pathetic.
>>55329028
>>55328661
answer this please.
>>55328220
Was Mussolini a marxist?
>>55322053
because kikes
and mass murder
and you are all fags
>>55322053
Because I believe in private ownership.
>>55324939
>le ebin naive hipster librul arts gender studies champagne socialist maymay
>>55325282
>lucky to pocket a few pennies
I'm all for people getting ahead due to hard work, but don't bullshit. Offshore bank accounts, pay bonuses for the higher ups, forming PACs to buy off politicians, etc. cost more than the few teeny weeny pennies that the elite take home to feed their families.
>>55329223
>t. naive hipster librul arts gender studies champagne socialist
>>55327293
My family are mostly skilled and semi-skilled working class people: nurses, teachers, writers, technicians, etc. They have seen their jobs get worse as the capitalist attack unions and drive down wages.
Fuck my nation. The US was built on slavery and genocide and continues to subvert democracy across the world in order to further corporate profit. The culture here at home is shit: totally dominated by superficial corporate driven trends, openly embracing ignorance, highly superstitious and grounded in backward religion, etc.
Race is used to divide workers. Jews and East Asians appear to have higher IQs than Europeans. There is nothing superior about being white.
>>55322681
>Commies, jews, and niggers start wars because they're poor as fuck at their own doing and have nothing to lose.
>it's capitalist white peoples fault
>>55329028
Lowering corporate taxes would...
>implying any corporation ever actually pays those taxes
>implying the customer doesn't may every single cent
>The capitalist class loves an insulating layer between themselves and the workers. They need to give enough smart and hard working people a stake in the system so that they don't organize with workers in favor of revolt
No you absolute twit, society loves a middle class because it's one of the most beautiful things to come out of the free market. A booming middle class means that the lowest of the dirt poor has the opportunity to clean himself up, get a job and move up in the world. There's nothing wrong with hierarchy as long as there's a decent amount of social mobility thrown in - and that requires a middle class.
>>55329252
Way to not read the rest of it.
It's by sheer volume that he is able to do it.
Fuck off, I prefer to drown.
Posting the only true pic.
>>55325012
Many Marxists are internationalist.
>>55327473
Marx believed that socialism would be built in advanced industrialized societies. Maybe he was right and the reason that previous attempts at building "Communism" failed was that these nations had not yet developed enough capital to collectivize. They had to go through a more primitive stage in history.
>>55329252
a few pennies per product, anon. As the man says, he's still incredibly wealthy and affluent, but only due to economies of scale.
Reminder that there are over 110,000 regulations on making fucking hamburgers that companies have to adhere to.
>>55329272
>My family are mostly skilled and semi-skilled working class people: nurses, teachers, writers, technicians, etc.
And you're a failure, a dropout from high school.
>Fuck my nation. The US was built on slavery and genocide and continues to subvert democracy across the world in order to further corporate profit.
You're really inviting the starbucks hipster image. Native americans and africans were enslaved because they were inferior. That's the truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
>Race is used to divide workers. Jews and East Asians appear to have higher IQs than Europeans. There is nothing superior about being white.
The idea of class (laughable at best) is used to divide workers. Race, however, is very real. Europeans are responsible for the vast majority (90%+) of useful invention within the last 2000 years. That counts for more than a mathematics test that can be learned.
>>55322053
Dude fuck off, national Socialism or facism before being fucking commie. Seriously such shitty systems.
>>55329374
Or maybe it won't happen in advanced industrialised societies because the standard of living in those societies are so beyond incredible that you'd have to be the most entitled kind of fuccboi to want to revolt against it.
Nigger we live in a society in which the greatest health concern among the poor is obesity.
Let that sink in.
The biggest health concern among the poor, oppressed souls at the bottom of the pyramid is that they have too much to eat and can lead a sedentary lifestyle.
Fuck your revolution.
>>55328546
You mean that time when you were a superpower and controlled a lot of the world? Fortunately, you've got alcoholism and krokodil to make up for it now.
>>55325176
I almost spit my food out, good one anon.
>>55322053
Communism/Marxism literally calls for a "Nationless society". So in other words, European culture and ideals are thrown out the window and are replaced with Communism. Kinda what happened with the USSR. They replaced Russian culture for Communist culture.
Communism does call for unity, as it wants a single Commie party ruling the world or the developed world at least. But have fun with boring USSR and PRC architecture, bread for dinner every night, and leading a boring life even if all goes according to plan. Your life becomes one big standardized fraud.
>>55329170
Why can't marxists explain this?
>>55327129
>>55327473
Don't forget that marxist kikes never quit and have no shame. It won't matter how many times they are proven wrong, they will still insist their shit ideas are good and it's white people or racism's fault or some other shit. Their goal is absolute control.
>>55329693
He's an American high school dropout. blocking unwanted facts from their own mind is their day to day routine
>>55327865
Sure, there were huge famines under Mao, but no major famines after his policies raised hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. If Mao killed 60 million in China, than capitalism has killed even more in India and sub-Saharan Africa.
Mao was a dictator and had some shitty agricultural policies, but the industrialization, centralization, public health and education programs, and independent trajectory (building enough power to challenge both the US and USSR) set China on course for the massive growth we have seen over the past several decades.
China has a capitalist system and exploits workers. It isn't the sort of society that I favor, but there is not doubt that Marxist ideology was useful for China and that China's power matters. It is a reason to take Marxism seriously.
>>55329374
Or maybe because people are not all the same and Communism denies this simple truth.
But i dont expect a high school dropout to have basic knowledge about human behaviour
>>55329661
the rose-tinted goggles on this cunt.
>>55329809
Mao didn't raise anyone out of poverty. Such a laughable notion.
>>55329296
>>55329407
I see now. It just seemed like unrestrained greed, destructive in some ways, constructive in others, was being advocated.
Question for any econanons: I've been recently taken with favor for national socialism. Is my understanding that it rejects international speculation/banking and basically isolates itself economically from normal capitalist countries (unless they agree to honor the NS country's currency) correct? I read that a good amount of international trade/wealth transfer in the third reich was in the form of goods.
>>55327937
I already said I am a software engineering consultant who bills $100 an hour plus expenses.
This image is possibly the most cringeworthy thing imaginable, but he has a point.
>>55322503
>Market capitalism encourages firms to pump up unnecessary consumption
awww, poor babby is a mind controlled material slave...you need a smart person (mommie or daddy) to run your life for you until you grow up
>>55329805
This, pretty much bored faggots who want a change so think failed systems are the way to go.
>>55322053
Protect the TV towers
>>55329915
>High school dropout becoming a software engineering consulting.
Bullshit.
Answer >>55329170
if you're serious, and perhaps try to flip some mental acrobatics around the Khmer Rouge while you're at it.
>>55322053
Because communism was the worst thing to ever happen to mankind and should never be considered again until post-scarcity
>>55329809
Dude china is not a strict capitalist nation, it is like a hybrid. Furthermore maos biggest achievement was having fucking doctors trying to farm instead of doing their real job and millions starving while he became a fatass.
>>55329883
The soviet union was a shit hole. Russia is now more of a shit hole. Go drink some bleach stupid.
>>55329805
>>55330031
I know
>2015
>expecting straight answers from leftypol
>>55330067
>Russia is now more of a shit hole
You have to be 18 or above to post here.
>>55322681
your little pic just doesn't work - we know capitalism has created hundreds of millions of fat fed pig people, and saved billlions of starving lives worldwide... it has no fucking stick, your pic
Now if you list the hundreds of thousands of hate filled commie death purgings of their own people - many starving since they can't feed themselves let alone billions like capitalism can...
HAHHAHHAHA OMG FUCK OFFFFFFFFF
>>55329809
Right now over 700 Million Chinese live in poverty and the only reason why the system isnt collapsing is based on an old law created by Mao that denies Folk from the rural areas areas and their children the same rights as the urban citizens.
So your great chinese communism created millions of slaves without any rights fighting each other to get one shitty job while ten others are already waiting for you to fail to get your position.
>>55330106
Oh sorry forgot everyone is mormon with perfect families, no drinking issues, the infrastructure is top notch, no economic issues, and the country gives joy off.
Marx was an ok guy near the end of his life, he actually hated marxism and those who tried to practice it in France.
>>55329693
>>55330031
ITT: Commieshits project their own questions and answer them (as well as some softball arguments) rather than addressing the actual questions and arguments of people who disagree with them, as per usual
>>55328012
lol. A big reason that I am a communist is that I despise identity politics (both the liberal SJWs and the reactionary Nazis) and entitled college educated brats. I live in a working class urban neighborhood, not a gated suburb.
The US is a net food exporter, btw. Hunger, 1917? Lol. A revolution certainly would cause a big short term dip in the economy, but the US is so rich that starvation just isn't a concern. A handful of dedicated revolutionaries could easily amass enough gold, bitcoin, etc to feed their communities in the event of a currency collapse.
>>55330224
Pretty sure the reason you are communist is because you are delusional probably a high school dropout. Communism will never happen, do you expect people to ignore the carnal man? Grow the fuck up communism is never going to work, its like thinking god is going to come down and create a utopia you autistic faggot.
>>55330187
Nothing compared to the soviet union. Christ, you're an idiot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LtQhIQ2AE
>>55330224
There is hunger in the US right now. People are on the street. Right. Now. We need to take care of ourselves and then others, not throw our economy and our sovereignty down the toilet.
>>55329809
>the industrialization, centralization, public health and education programs, and independent trajectory (building enough power to challenge both the US and USSR) set China on course for the massive growth we have seen over the past several decades.
>there is not doubt that Marxist ideology was useful for China and that China's power matters. It is a reason to take Marxism seriously.
Yep, that's enough /pol/ for today.
>>55330290
Oh yes anon, life was perfect there. NKVD were muh friends, Stalin was a good boy. I'll trust britshits when they don't help fuck Europe up.
>>55330224
>A handful of dedicated revolutionaries could easily amass enough gold, bitcoin, etc to feed their communities in the event of a currency collapse.
A friend of mine works in a lunatic asylum. Can i get him in contact with you ? You would make a great object of study for him.
>>55330388
I was arguing against communism, friend. Follow the line of quotes.
>>55322681
Capitalism is what caused my car to get towed.
>>55322053
Why are you still an ideologue?
>>55328220
Mussolini was influenced by syndicalism and socialism. He edited a socialist newspaper. The fascists were not devils; they were humans. They gained power both by brutishness and by enacting popular and effective policies. However, the ways in which fascism diverges from and opposes international socialism are exactly what leads to the failure of fascism.
>>55330451
Well geeze sorry comrade.
>>55322053
marxism is for weak minded sheep who need someone else to manage their life for them.
>>55330187
Russia has always had drinking issues even during the soviet era everyone just made their own vodki.
>>55329895
Yes there was a quasi-bartering system. Very hard to read source material on it.
I have misplaced my link but read the material written by Gottfreid I think.
The problem with National Socialism is it does need quite a large space to work with, and a Nation to collaborate with.
Also a man with an incredible force of will.
>>55322083
Hahahahah I kek"d
>>55330481
A non-answer. As expected from a dropout burger flipper.
>>55326584
>Unions
never again desu
>>55328394
OK, so maybe the inherent aggression of nationalism is a problem!
>>55330388
What the fuck are you even saying?
>what are bread lines
>what is woefully inadequate production
>what is starvation
>what is sharing your apartment with 3 families you've never met
>what is gulag
But yeah, life in Russia is obviously way worse today.
>>55330464
Do you fist?
>>55322053
you're on the wrong site. where is your tard guard? you shouldn't be unsupervised on the internet.
>>55330463
>>55322053
I am neither of all this made up ideologies created by the new world order
>>55326714
>someone has more stuff than me :(
>>55330616
Struggle and aggression has bred the scientific and social enviornment perfect for Europe and the western world to become the dominant world powers they are today.
>>55330616
Communist nations have been, historically, as aggressive as they come. China and Tibet, Russia and the entire eastern bloc, the Khmer Rouge with their own people, North/South Vietnam, North/South Korea.
>>55323574
commie queer chart boy...
>I was expelled from high school three times.
big surprise...it's the caitalist racist systems fault...
ROFLMAO OMG HAHHAHHAA FUCKIN LOSER !
>>55330621
What the fuck does it sound like I am saying? Literally sarcasm saying how much it sucked you retarded faggot.
>>55325292
He didn't even mention North Korea you braindead faggot.
>>55330481
>However, the ways in which fascism diverges from and opposes international socialism are exactly what leads to the failure of fascism.
Are you claiming that fascism didn't oppose international socialism from the start?
Have you ever read Gentile, or Marinetti or D'annunzio? Don't you know that nationalism is the first pillar of fascism?
And while we are at it, if fascism worked in the beginning, why do you claim that national socialism didn't and that it was capitalistic?
They had the same economic and social policies. The only difference was the application of antisemitism and scientific racism by the nazis.
It seems that the only problem that you have between a fascist/ natsoc country is that they are not a form of internationalism.
Why shouldn't I apply socialism just between my people alone?
>>55330616
>>55330724
Internationalism is inherently more aggressive and self destructive than nationalism.
>>55323406
we have that in uk
which is saying something seeing as we eat proper food here not shitty foreign food
>>55328485
For a time the KPD viewed the SPD as a bigger enemy than the Nazis. This was a mistake, and by the time they realized it, it was too late. However, I can't really blame the Commies for hating the social-democrats, after all the social-dems crushed the Ruhr uprising, the Bavarian Soviet, killed Rose Luxembourg and Karl Liebknecht, etc.
And yes, a huge feature of fascism, one things that differentiates it from other reactionary movements, is that it recuperates left imagery and even ideas. The Falange claimed to be "national-syndicalist" because of the importance of unions in Spain, even though in practice Franco crushed the established unions. Hitler implemented workers councils in Germany, even though council communists had to go into hiding or risk execution.
>>55330481
Fascism "failed" because it was immediately attacked by the global Jewish/Capitalist/Communist union.
>>55325149
>Paperwork isn't work
>management isn't work
>only labor directly applied to making products is work
Shut up, cocksucker.
>>55328528
>The scum of society
http://richkidsofinstagram.tumblr.com/
>>55330726
sorry f.am, I forgot how IDs worked and assumed you were this anon >>55330067
carry on
>>55330887
Dude would totally rather be NatSoc or fascist than communist. Mother fuckers had it way better than Soviets.
>>55330616
>inherent aggression of nationalism
You are mistaking nationalism with imperialism. Many communist regimes had similar policies. I know that you claim that those weren't real examples of communism (and I could say the same for fascist Italy: it wasn't real fascism), but they are the only examples of your ideology being applied in the real world which takes into account human factors such as greed and scarcity of resources.
>>55330887
Unions hold workers hostage.
>>55330955
Jealousy clouds the mind.
>>55330956
No problem anon, carry on the good work.
>>55328546
The USSR was about as "socialist" as the DPRK is "democratic".
But the USSR did have more planning and less market influence. We can talk about that. What about that massive drop in life expectancy when the USSR collapsed and the plutocrats took over?
>>55330956
>mfw I've cycled between 5 IDs and this is my 6th one this thread
>>55328639
What if an anarcho-syndicalist federation captures a nuclear arsenal?
>>55331041
What about that massive gap in standard of living and GDP per capita between the USSR and NATO countries, a gap which only widened as the planned economy of the USSR trudged along?
>>55331115
They wouldn't be able to arm or launch them and would be quickly wiped out.
