So, some people in Catalonia want to separate from the rest of Spain and call themselves a nation. No real monetary or logical objective. Just add a frontier for the sake of it.
What are /pol/'s thought on this matter?
>>55319663
BUILD WALL
Aren't they the richest and Whitest continent?
Good that they distance themselves from the shitskins.
Let them do it.
Make them humble.
Decentralization promotes democratic values and strengthens international society.
>>55319663
>no real monetary or logical objective
vamos, que no te has enterao de nada
If a people want independence give it to them
>>55319752
Ignore the bait espanbro.
>>55319663
Could they make their own immigration policy?
>>55319663
it's their fucking business and no one elses.
/pol/s opinion on this is 100% irrelevant.
>>55319663
They will be happier without you
>>55319663
don't let the catalans do it, the ones on our side would get funny ideas.
Also it's an EU ploy to weaken national unity in europe, stand strong.
if a people want independence, they should get it. no questions asked.
>>55319860
The thing is they already asked the people in that region and only 40% want independency
They are basically trying to break the law at this point
>>55319930
> 40% OF PEOPLE WANT INDEPENDENCY.
> THEREFORE NO ONE WILL HAVE IT.
Tyranny of the majority etc.
>>55319930
give them a referendum. if it fails, like in scotland than that's fine. but you have to let them have a referendum.
>>55319663
fuck them off meh, they don't even have a real army
>>55319981
the thing is that number isn't real. only a referendum on the question can be true.
>>55319930
>only 40% want independency
Then those 40% should be allowed to take their property and secede.
>They are basically trying to break the law at this point
The law created by the political union that none of those 40% (and, I would argue, no one currently alive in Spain) agreed to be a part of.
>>55320075
Only 37% of the population in the region participated on the 2014 referendum for this matter. Of course the few people that participated mostly voted Yes.
>>55319998
neither did croatia when we got our independence. that's not the point though.
>>55319663
Catalonia > Muspain
More Frontiers everywhere please.
>>55320075
IF 40% OF PEOPLE WANT INDEPENDENCE THOSE 40% OF PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE INDEPENDENCE. FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING CUNT.
>>55319860
Fixed desu
>>55319930
More than 40% wants it, where do you take your number?
>>55320264
Still no Sami(Sverige) or Bretagne(France)
>>55319744
FACK THE TOMORROW
>>55320330
Bretons dont need independence. They moved there during the Anglo-Saxon inasion of Britain. They can be resettled in Cornwall and Wales when the Anglos are driven out.
>>55320262
What the hell are you saying?
>>55319663
dumb as fuck
though lately i wish new england would do the same, so we arent siphoning away our federal tax dollars towards cancerous tumors like the southeast US
>>55320231
It's kinda funny how the inmigration grew since 2000 but in 2010 they finally realised this isn't the best choice of a country and it started to get smaller. I'm lucky I live in the far north where the percentage of inmigrants is much lower.
>>55320264
disgusting
>destroying perfectly good countries like Switzerland, Andorra and Luxembourg
>splitting an area 99% russian between countries that hate russians.
>making the serbs carry the weight of the muslims in bosina (no one wants them)
>giving Northern Ireland to ireland, when the two sides hate each other. (they built a fucking wall)
etc.
your map is shit
>>55320445
There shouldn't need to be a vote. Anyone at any moment should have the right to declare themselves independent from their host nation. Democracy is an utter failure when it comes to this.
>>55320561
would be a bureaucratic nightmare
>>55320597
That just makes it even more fucking necessary to implement it.
>>55320521
underrated post
the most sane person in the thread
>>55320561
Oh boy. You're one of those. I had no idea it came in rosbeef flavour.
If you don't want to be a part of your country, leave to be in another one. But you can't be independent from the "host nation" without actually leaving it.
>>55320825
> spainbro talking about sanity near me.
Shame we lost our empires, right?
>>55320827
> francebro shitting on people who want independence.
Viva le fucking revolucionne eh you fucking frog.
>>55319663
If so glad /pol/ has flags because of threads like this
Basically ahmeds bastard son doesn't want the productive europeans to leave, as no one will fund his welfare then.
>>55321052
If you conquer your independence through might of arms, then good on you. But the state has the right (or, dare i say, the obligation) to enforce citizenship (or visas for foreigners) to all residents, you twat of a bong.
>>55319860
>>55320264
No one in Alsace wants to be part of Germany though. They don't even speak german
>>55321371
>It's okay because they have guns.
Oh boy. You're one of those.
From an outsider's view - the Catalan people have almost no capability for running a nation, and the movement is being driven by politicians who like having leverage and noise behind them.
1. I don't believe the people care to be independent
2. The region's separatist politicians are largely corrupt
3. The best possible outcome are some tax breaks and maybe some legislative autonomy
>>55320521
My map is based on Ethnolinguistic lines. Meme nations like Belgium and Switzerland and UK have no place in Europe. Kaliningrad is Russian yes but pointless enclave.
Now go back to sucking German asshole. The national Croation pastime.
>>55319805
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34680564
>>55321577
The ones who have been pushing independence more are the corrupts from CiU
>>55319805
no one gives independence for free.
>They must to pay with blood for it.
>>55319860
>Cornwall
>London
>Yorkshire
>Scotland
>Wales
>Isle of Man
>Northern Ireland
>Greater Manchester
>West Midlands
>Wessex
>Northern Isles
>Orkney
>Shetland
>Outer Hebrides
stop!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe#United_Kingdom
>>55325199
No, go fuck yourself, it's time for change.
IT'S TIME TO GO FORWARD
>>55319739
Haha nice meme. First time I see that new meme.
>>55319805
Pfff anyone can claim to be a people.
>>55319663
>What are /pol/'s thought on this matter?
Yes, because fuck you!
>>55320231
nothing special about Catalonia other than barcelona.
Saying otherwise is being ignorant or lying.
>>55319860
Corsica and Sardinia both want independence. Sicily might be up for it, same with Venice.
>>55320264
>Independent Cornwall
I really hope this happens just so I can laugh as I watch them crumble into nothingness from the good side of the Tamar.
Fun fact: Support for independence is mostly situational. Historical support would be around 20% of current.
>>55326573
No its to be part of Wales
>>55322406
lol this butthurt.
belgium makes sense, since both flanders and wallonia don't like each other. but switzerland works perfectly well. not only that, but the swiss are better off in switzerland than any of the surrounding nations (lol italy), not to mention your map is completely inaccurate in modern switzerland.
kiliningrad is pointless? how so? it's an important naval base. and there are people living there, who call it home.
not saying you're a child, but you certainly think like one.
also:
>insulting my nationality, because your argument is shit.
Catalonia is just like a western woman
>be married to Spain
>Spain loses job (2008 financial crisis), Catalonia loses its shit and ask for divorce
>claims to be oppressed even though it's in a position of privilege. Victimism is the default discourse
>wants alimony ("we want to be independent but please, lend us your army, let FC Barcelona in La Liga, forget out monetary debt" basically GIVE ME THE CHILDREN AND THE HOUSE).
>they support lefty ideologies and multiculturalism (except from actual Spaniards, the "white man"), they are the Spanish Sweden.
>they're brainwashed in college. You see all those "we wuz kings n shit" from niggers? They're exactly the same, "Columbus is Catalan", "Cervantes is Catalan", every important person in history is Catalan according to their historians, I kid you not
>maximum entitlement
>>55319663
Scum, I hate that area of Spain, the day that the sea rises and takes Barcelona back into the abyss can't come any sooner.
Catalans are scum.
>>55327277
Yugoslavia worked well m8, till you got butthurt.
Only difference between Belgium and Switzerland is that Switzerland works, yeah, but it's still an artifical nation.
Kaliningrad I am utterly indifferent to. Keep it if you wish.
>>55328489
bullshit.
yugoslavia had the potential, but unfortunately it was left in the hands of communists.
the reasons it broke up are too complex to just fall under ethnic disunity, not to mention the external influences.
Artificial nation implies a state needs to be a nation. in my opinion a state only has the obligation to make life for it's citizens the best it can be, and looking at it that was Switzerland is just fine as it is, and it certainly couldn't be better by getting split up.
>>55328714
Can't believe you are getting butthurt over a 2 minute shitty edit of your map. Here's a better version I drew up from the "perfect Europe" Threads.
>>55319739
They are spain's jews.
>>55328258
Spanishbro, are there any cultural differencies between Catlonians and Spaniards? Basically, is it possible to identify someone as a Catalonian without him clearly stating so?
>>55319663
Isn't this mostly backed by Muslims?
Cool, another meme country. Small shits like Baltic States, slovenia, etc. should be incorporated into larger federations
>>55319698
>>55328837
>>55319745
Decentralization weakens the nation and divides its people.
LEUKITANIA MOE TREBE INTI !!!!
>>55328837
the fact you think this discussion is actually about some shitty map on the internet says a lot to me. not that anything said on this board matters, but i thought i was discussing political principles, not some .png
since you brought it up though, it's still a shitty map. you'd be giving italy more german speaking territory than italian/romansch
but all of that is beside the point. the point is there is no reason for a perfectly functioning AAA+ country to be dissembled and the parts given to shittier centralized kek-tier countries, just because "muh nation state" and "muh linguistics"
>>55328930
There are cultural differencies between all the communities in Spain, and even between provinces. None of them is "special" or " more different" than the rest. Not even the basque country.
>>55329085
my sides just discovered water on Mars....
source? or OC?
>>55326379
yeah I just went for the North(Padonia)/South divide. makes more sense to me.
>>55328930
Accent aside, there's no way to tell apart. But as you say, they will state that they're Catalans all the fucking time. You can also tell they're Catalans because they're greedy fucks. It's funny because there are many different cultures in our country but Catalans are nothing special in that way. They just feel oppressed and that's it, there isn't more. It would make more sense to see Basques independent from Spain but the Catalan feckers believe they're special snowflakes.
>>55329085
10/10
>>55329130
I get it now, the source of all your asspain is some dislike of Italians.
>>55329130
You must kek them as hard as you can Spain.
>>55319663
OP is a cryptokike from JEWdrid, Capital of Spain.
OP has a deep back butthurt
But the freemen are with CATALUNIA
>CATALUNIA
>>55329340
i give up. do you mind telling me your age? maybe give me some peace of mind...
>>55328837
Ingilizi domuzu gel yine sikeyim seni.
>>55329130
What do they speak in the blue shaded areas?
>>55329596
those are lakes my American friend. most maps show water as blue...
>>55329396
Fuck off EU loving scum.
>>55319663
They're diehard socialists, they'll turn into Sweden 2.0 in no time.
>>55329708
>>55329085
>Belarus
>has territory in Russia that resembles a middle finger.
Top kek
>Catalonia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFfxqFiFfjs
>>55329312
There isn't more?
I'll give a hint: Barcelona has been more bombarded by Spain than by other countries.
>>55319663
It's very characteristic and stupid of Europeans in general, to sincerely wish to balkanize in this fashion. We talk about it over here quite a lot, but it's only ever a theoretical.
>>55319745
So fast-track another do-over for Scotland, add in NI and Wales while you're at it.
Espanha não é um paÃs, é um conjunto de reinos que foram independentes. Portugal é a única nação a ter conseguido manter a independência da Espanha imperialista. Sem razão monetária ou lógica? Que tal uma GRANDE razão polÃtica que as outras regiões não conseguem invocar só porque são pobres? A Espanha nunca foi uma realidade polÃtica integra
>>55329105
federalism>centalism
>>55329592
>Turkey
Mehmet, pls.
>>55319663
Why do you even bother?
Spain is strongly looked down in the anglosphere. They'll defend Catalonia's independence just to fuck with Spain, but then they'll see no problem with Northern Ireland, for instance.
Fuck off.
Spain is most likely to get massively butthurt so you should get used to it.
Fuck Catalonia and fuck Spain.
>>55330546
We could say the same about Madrid. Madrid were teared apart during the Civil War; Franco slowly and painfully strangled the city, whereas Barcelona's elites set a red carpet for his troops, so they could get rid of those "pesky" reds.
>>55321416
All I know they make pretty awesome white wines.
>>55331074
>It's very characteristic and stupid of Europeans in general, to sincerely wish to balkanize in this fashion. We talk about it over here quite a lot, but it's only ever a theoretical.
They're not.
What they're doing is breaking away from their nation and finding a new benefactor in the EU.
The EU is the New Roman Empire, all these immigrants are here to destroy our nationalities, turning us into the New Rome with no nations, just provinces.
>>55320264
>Welsh independence
holy shit there would be exodus to england in hour
not even joking, we already get NHS tourists from the valleys
>>55331131
You know, Spain was formed to achieve political and religious unity in the Iberian PenÃnsula. You are next to be conquered along with Gibraltar, my dear neighbours
>>55320264
Missing the Venetians.
>>55319663
>in spain
>something happening
>nigga pls
I live in Catalonia and I don't really care but don't drag me on war please or I will kill you both.
>>55331297
>They'll defend Catalonia's independence just to fuck with Spain
Actually the United States has officially supported Spanish unity and does not want to see an independent Catalonia.
Where the fuck are you getting your information from?
>>55320130
if they dont care enogue to vote then minority should decide for them
>>55331840
He meant english people. In Spain we dont like other europeas usually. French are pussies and annoying as fuck, brits are drunks, arrogants and dicks, Italians are jealous fucks, portuguese are Moors, swiss are fucking jews, ... And im sure other people dont like us, specially in France and the UK
>>55331957
They didnt vote because the referend was declared illegal by the Constitutional Tribunal, the highest juridical authority in Spain
>>55331297
Barcelona has been bombarded and invaded by spanish troops in:
Civil war (1936-39), Tragic week (1909), Bombardment of Barcelona (1842), two times in the war of Spanish Succession (1706 and 1713) and in 1651 in the Reapers War/Catalan Revolt.
>>55331840
Sure, another fellow State won't overtly say anything that could hurt the integrity of an ally.
But from a social-cultural point of view, people won't support Spain enforcing its territorial integrity.
Besides, if there is only a little amount of money involved (for foreign investors, I mean), Spain will surely be told to "chill a bit".
>>55332261
No, that's fucking stupid.
It is in every interest of NATO for Spain to remain united.
Once again, where are you getting your information?
also,
>what the fuck is up with this apathetic Spanish behavior?
>where are your fucking balls?
>>55332145
then whats the points make a real referendum and let people speak their mind
>>55328837
>Dat Kurdistan
10/10 Kurds are based as fuck
>>55329085
>Swiss now have ports.
>Will dominate the world
Now you've done it.
>tfw you don't know who to hate more, eurofederalists or muh independence nationalists
>they are actually two sides of the same coin
kill me
>>55319663
This a spit to the face to the Spanish Crown, i say declare war to those faggots and take back Barcelona
>>55333430
>monarchy more important than people
>state more important than people
>>55332046
There's no way English will be supporting Catalonian independence any time soon with the Scottish situation. Northern Ireland nobody wants.
>>55331543
>>>55319663 (OP)
:) Gibraltar? Que interesse tem? A Espanha não foi criada com o objectivo de ter unidade polÃtica e religiosa, penso eu. Essa ideia vem do império romano, mas serve para esconder um propósito imperialista, de dominação. Como se o mais natural fosse a unidade polÃtica; não é, porque há um conjunto de condições especificas na penÃnsula ibérica que só se repetem nos balcãs (v. ex-jugoslavia, que não teve muito sucesso). A unidade religiosa foi conseguida com a conquista de Granada em 1492. Não era necessário haver uma Espanha. A unidade polÃtica foi fortuita e o efeito de casamentos, alianças, conquistas e vontade de poder dos monarcas; a própria integração da Catalunha na Espanha é forçada. :) Cá vos esperamos, espanholitos. Desde 1139 :)
>>55319663
Doesn't matter if you like it or not. It hurts the anglo-zionists through massive amounts of losses and headache for the banksters, thus it's good.
Support Catalonian independence.
>>55319663
Should just nuke spain off the face of the planet tbqh. Nothing but a nation of filthy lazy shitskins.
>>55333524
English mother fucker, do you speak it?!
>>55332362
>It is in every interest of NATO for Spain to remain united.
Yes, in the current state of things. But we have elections in a month and a half, and I don't trust what will come after that. And an independent Catalonia wouldn't be anti-NATO either.
>what the fuck is up with this apathetic Spanish behavior?
It's just that Spain is weak nowadays after these devastating years, not only our economy, but also our animus and soul.
It's very tiring to live in a complexed country that constantly tries to demean itself.
>>55332243
I know, I know. I'm aware of that.
But:
-Catalan people are not supporting independence right now for historical reasons. If so, it would have been so supported (like it is now) some years ago too, isn't it?
-We can't just depict spanish civil wars like "wars Spain waged against Catalonia". Civil War (36-39) and Succession War were just "internal wars". Barcelona just supported the parties that eventually lost, and that's a pity because Bourbons and Franco has been the worst cancers Spain has had.
-I admit that some of the events that you mention are proof that Spain (or at least, part of it) hasn't treated Catalonia fondly in the past (the same we could same about Asturias [1934], may be?) However, in the last decades we were doing it quite well, don't you agree? Of course it has not been a perfect relationship, but it has been very very good overall. We turned Spain into a modern country, catalan institutions were recognized, catalan is now an official language and catalan culture is strongly promoted, and we all became way more prosperous than we were before.
>tfw people want to split switzerland
the most important thing uniting Switzerland's different cultures is the hatred towards our neighbors
>>55333765
Your elections don't matter.
Read what I am saying:
UNIFIED
SPAIN
IS
IN
NATO'S
BEST
INTEREST.
NATO doesn't give a fuck if Catalonia is pro-NATO or not.
Unified Spain is stronger than Frankenstein Spain. Also, Catalonian independence only fuels Scotland, Lombardy, etc... movements.
Do you understand now?
>>55333974
I know.
It's just that we spaniards tend to diminish our own country's relevance.
>>55334221
Spain is extremely relevant.
Don't fucking go Sweden on us bro.
I didn't take 4 years of fucking espanyolo and multiple trips to central/south America for you guys to go and fucking blow it.
You have no idea how much Latino America looks up to you.
>>55320262
Scotland detected!
Stay mad you cluckold.
The current wave of independence movements across Europe is a result of the EU which allows smaller countries to exist despite their relatively weak military and lower power of money compared to their bigger neighbours. I'd wish to see the independence movements in Spain, Italy and Belgium to succeed. And then I hope for a renewal of the scottish referendum. Divide et empera, faggots.
>>55331297
Northern Ireland have never asked for independence.
Neither has Wales.
Scotland had a referendum. They are of cluck now. They are of cluck. Forever Scotcluckland will be cluck.
>>55334492
This, i really want Catalonia to succeed just to set a precedent we can use
I remember one Spainard saying that Catalonia wants independence because all of their politicians are corrupt and their embezzling is at risk for being seriously exposed so they want (financial) independence to escape prosecution. Is this true?
>>55329085
88/14
>>55334492
>German thinks he rule EU independently.
>Divide et empera, faggots.
next Emperor i suppose.
>>55335772
When did I say anything about Germany? You must be new on /pol/. Let me tell you about the Jews...
>>55319663
>No real monetary objective
Manolo, pls
>>55319663
I say we should annex it.
>>55319834
Hahahaa, i'm catalonian and this is so fucking true
>>55319930
58%*
>>55319860
>>55320264
>East Ukraine still Ukraine
>>55319663
Stupidest shit I've heard since last year.
Damn, so much people supporting independence, thanks /pol/!
HOW MANY REFUGEES WILL THE NEW CATALONIA TAKE?
>>55337156
I've heard we were going to take 5000 for now
>>55336112
Depends from which country they are.
Then i request short likbez about inner jewish political stratification from Pol's point of view.
You know, Rockefellers, Bilderbergers, neocon warmongers and hidden ties of old european nobility with... someone etc.
>>55337248
shakemyhead family
>>55319663
on ck2 that area is dejure french
>>55331131
Portugal is one of the few countries that has a movement who wants to join to Spain.
>>55319663
CNT-FAI scum. Tanks in 30 min.
>>55337102
>comparing Catalonia to Palestine
>>55331131
>>55331543
>>55337693
I always know that Spanish-Portuguese relations in fact very similar with Russia-Ukraine relations in many aspects, hehe. Beside final date of independence and fucking football skills, of course.
why isn't this portugal?
>>55328258
I dont know how accurate this is but its hilarious
>>55319930
Your 40% figure is a complete lie. The people want independence and they will get it.
https://youtu.be/dwmXqu1BrjA
https://youtu.be/YM5HsvIrivI
>>55319860
i am ok with this!
>>55319998
Neither does Spain
>>55338832
Because that's Galicia.
>>55319663
no rest for the traitors
no retreat for the crown
punish them for being unloyal
If Kosovo can be its own nation, so can Catalonia.
yo spain, looks like this will be a 3-way iberian peninsula, enjoy getting buttfucked by poortugal and catalonian pirates
>>55319860
>croat
>albanian kosovo
>bulgarian macedonia
>free republika srpska
Please fucking fall off a cliff or something, do us all a favor.
>>55342058
If U(ncle)S(am) would permit such decision of course the do.
>Kosovo can be its own nation
Kosovo isn't independent "nation". It's just bunch of Albanian posers who don't want join to Albania and instead this asks to get refugee status in Germany...
