most of the working class makes more than minimum wage
there just are more people than jobs that need to be done
>>55287591
but he's wrong.
raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living.
only fools don't know that fact.
>>55287591
fuck proles
>>55287591
>I decide what is an adequate standard of living and I get to change my decision whenever a new iphone comes out
Someone making $20k/yr now is living better than 99.999999% of humans ever lived.
And communism has been empirically proven structurally unable to provide ANYTHING, except maybe genocide.
>>55287591
>adequate standard of living
>literally the 1% of the world at minimum wage
welp
>>55287670
>raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living
there's no model where this has ever been proven
>minimum wage
>capitalism
>>55287591
>Just because we can't do X easy band-aid fix, the whole system must be broken!
Never taken a single economics course, the post
>>55287591
Tumblr wet dream.
>>55287591
This dipshit needs to brush up on his Milton Friedman.
>>55287591
We need to get rid of the illegals and build a wall
>>55287685
That's a logical fallacy first of all. By that line of thinking, only the poorest of the poorest of the poor should have a right to complain.
Secondly, traditional societies like the Eskimo and Khoi-San peoples didn't live that badly. By some measures they were the original affluent societies.
>>55287707
>capitalism has flaws and generally leads to the impoverishment of the middle and lower classes
>YEAH WELL, COMMUNISM WAS SHIT
Seriously? Who said anything about communism as the alternative. You must be one of those people who still thinks in paradigms.
>waaaaaah I can't afford to buy a new iPhone with my shitty wage every time a new model comes out ;_;
>mfw last month, Walmart announced that it will be raising its internal minimum wage to $10
>mfw Keynesian nanny-state fucks BTFO by the free market
>>55287862
>By that line of thinking, only the poorest of the poorest of the poor should have a right to complain.
Nobody's saying that, we are only saying that the people who are complaining about bourgeoisie-scum and the vile 1% are actually, globally, bourgeoisie-scum and vile 1%ers.
>>55287879
>source: marxvx
>marx
It doesn't take a rocket surgeon.
>>55287707
GET CRUNK IN THIS BITCH
DAMN DAT ASS LOOKIN' FAT
>>55287977
Is this what you want, Canada?
Why is it such a meme to hate capitalism?
Why don't these people move to china or some other commie shithole if they hate it so much
protip: the reason they are shitholes is because they're communist
>>55287591
>part time fast food workers are the middle class
thats FUCKING INSULTING you dumb whore
NO THEY DONT DESERVE 15 DOLLARS AN HOUR, THEY DESERVE MORE HOURS. THATS IT
IF THEY CANT GET ORDERS RIGHT HOW DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO TRUST THEM ENOUGH TO GIVE UP THEIR OWN MONEY TO SUPPORT THEM
GOD YOU DUMB CUNT RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>55287591
Companies will lay off employees wherever robotics can replace them and then their product's prices will raise because of increasing minimum wage+them trying to make a profit.
And communism/pseudocommunism isn't the solution.
The only solution is to completely abolish currency and let the common people trade with themselves. But nearly everyone is too stupid to do that.
>>55287591
yeah, think about how much better socialism is
>>55288017
>Why don't these people move to china or some other commie shithole if they hate it so much
It's just like how Muslims move out of shitty war-torn countries and then want to impose their shit culture on the places they end up.
Delusion and arrogance.
>>55287591
You can't say reality won't work the way you want is a failure of capitalism. But these are people that think if you hack your dick off you become a woman so...
>>55287653
>there just are more people than jobs that need to be done
I think there are many jobs that needs to be done that aren't getting done because of our current model. Even if you're right and the people are more than the jobs then we should create jobs. Or you're no better than Stalin who killed people whenever they didn't fit in his models.
>>55287670
>raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living.
not true my dude
Myth: The federal minimum wage goes up automatically as prices increase.
Not true: While some states have enacted rules in recent years triggering automatic increases in their minimum wages to help them keep up with inflation, the federal minimum wage does not operate in the same manner. An increase in the federal minimum wage requires approval by Congress and the president. However, in his call to gradually increase the current federal minimum, President Obama has also called for it to adjust automatically with inflation. Eliminating the requirement of formal congressional action would likely reduce the amount of time between increases, and better help low-income families keep up with rising prices.
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm
i didn't actively look for things to confirm my bias, i just took the quoted text and searched google
>>55288134
Let's let them move to Cuba where your food is rationed out for you and red meats are illegal.
But other than that Cuba is almost like America but with less freedom.
>>55287591
provide for yourself by getting a real job lazy cunt
minimum wage jobs are for teenagers
>>55287591
more like
>if you need to goverment to force others to pay you a set min wage, that just proove how fucking worthless you are
>>55287862
>By that line of thinking, only the poorest of the poorest of the poor should have a right to complain.
My point was that an "adequate standard of living" is an arbitrary measure in this context and is, in fact, misleading for most of these retards who think capitalism hasn't been the force that lifted them to where they are now.
>Secondly...
And?
>>55287591
>implying anyone other than a retard, student, or immigrant works a minimum wage job.
If you disagree then you are a socialist and think everyone else should pay for unskilled retarded workers to earn a competitive wage comparable to a skilled worked or a professional.
Literally wealth redistribution. Fucking hilarious imo.
>>55287591
As opposed to what?
>implying that pricing the poor out of work will provide a "better standard of living."
>>55288307
>my worth is measured by how much the economy values me
Not everyone's worldview.
>>55287890
This.
Do you even know the weason he doesn't have his iPod touch?
>>55287862
>6
Poorest of the poor? what 99% of the world lel. That's not a fallacy
>>55287591
>-sent from my macbook pro
>>55287890
iphones are easy to get at minimum wage due to carrier deals
food, rent, (emergency) medical expenses on the other hand, not so easy.
>>55288370
Why is wealth redistribution hilarious? You aren't entitled to anything.
>>55287591
The real problem is not wage inequality, but the ongoing debasement of the currency and consequent inflation of prices beyond the means of increasing numbers of workers. Thank the Fed, not "capitalism".
>>55288403
It isn't everyone's worldview that the current minimum wage is inadequate either
Were you ever meant to be financially independent on minimum wage?
Hey I got an idea, get a better job that pays more? Or start your own business. Even just mowing peoples lawns makes more money than minimum wage. Don't rely on people tipping you just because your employer is a tight arse.
>>55288514
>You aren't entitled to anything.
But you're entitled to everybody else's stuff, right?
>>55288524
The whole argument is absurdist.
>>55288514
>Why is wealth redistribution hilarious? You aren't entitled to anything.
>>55288389
exactly, they want to say some kind of communism but can never explain it precisely.
>>55287591
>meanwhile people on welfare are on better living standards than minimum wage workers
I've got an idea, cut taxes and benefits and then the employees can negotiate for better wages with their employers, who, without the additional tax burden can afford to pay more for their employees and the employee gets to keep more of their income?
>>55288567
Everything we owb is by social contract with everyone else.
>>55288181
Well, a lot of the jobs that need to be filled require qualified people and the ones who are able to fill them aren't complaining about the minimum wage (STEM mostly)
>>55288624
*own
>>55287707
Confirmed for not opening a history book.
Assuming the USSR was socialist (it was in some ways), it still provided a lot. It was the second largest economy on Earth and was an innovator in astronomy, physics, biology, agriculture, space travel, medicine, and agriculture. It went from medieval living conditions for 85% of the population, near-nonexistent medical care, nonexistent infrastructure, a miserably low life expectancy, and a literacy rate worse than modern Afghanistan (all in 1910s) to universally provided medical care, a massive research sector, the most advanced space program on Earth, rapidly modernizing infrastructure, one of the highest rates of doctors per group of people, widespread education, very little unemployment and no famine after 1947, and life expectancies in some republics exceeding those of contemporary USA just a few decades later. And that was all in spite of losing millions of people and most of its infrastructure in the bloodiest front of the bloodiest war in history.
>>55288234
They make some pretty good cigars, desu.
>>55288500
no theyre not you get locked into ridiculous long term contracts. its an illusion of a deal, in reality its the exact opposite.
I get a commission every time I sell some shit iphone for 0$ because we win that deal so hard its unreal we prey off poor people who think like this. Somebody who brings their phone in and asks for a sim card on the other hand we can't do shit about, he holds the position of power in negotiating a plan.
>>55287862
>only the poorest of the poorest of the poor should have a right to complain.
How progressive of you, only the oppressed can speak about being oppressed, the rest of us privileged folks can take our opinions and go shove it. Fuck a discussion of free ideas, only those who have been marginalized by the system should have a voice.
>>55288624
>Everything we owb is by social contract with everyone else.
This is like saying our lives are by "social contract" with others because murder is illegal. It's meaningless.
>>55287890
Ebin meme
>>55288639
I'm not talking about wages. Just what you/someone said about lack of jobs. Wages is another matter.
>>55288389
Feudalism, monarchism, socialism; shit, even fucking fascism, by marriage of corporate and state functions, found itself compelled to abide by the needs of the productive class.
>>55288658
>Confirmed for not opening a history book.
I've forgotten more history than you've likely ever learned.
>in spite of losing millions
It was a self-inflicted loss. The quality of life grows greatly when you can kill off the bottom rung of society.
>inb4 Stalin's kill count was exaggerated greatly! Muh McCarthyism! Muh red scare!
>>55288703
Kinda. Your life and your Mercedes aren't the same ontologically though.
>>55288658
And tell us where the USSR is now, commie.
>>55287591
They bitch about capitalism while posting on a multi-billion dollar valued website
But yeah, this is the crony capitalism they whine about, when a group is able to dictate parts of capitalism, in this case the government forcing a wage.
I thought raising the min wage made things more expensive, this is not the case? Can someone explain what the consequences of raising it are? Other than forcing companies to consider layoffs?
You do understand that if the millions of people who currently don't make a "livebale wage" end up making "livable wages" theyll all just start competing for the same thing right? On a smaller scale: 10,000 people don't make enough income to afford a 750$ a month apartment. Suddenly those 10,000 people are given all the same "livebale wage" and they all want that apartment, but unfortunately there's only 6,000 of those apartments which means that the people willing to pay the most will live there and the rest will still suffer. Yeah we can make more apartments but you'll still be competing with everyone else when their isn't enough to go around. You can't fix poverty by giving everyone the same thing it just doesn't work like that. Supply and demand it's just how it works.
>>55288017
The "le move to le socialist DPRK/Venezuela/China" thing is a meme. Most American leftists don't follow that political model. Also those three countries are state capitalist.
>>55288658
You're literally delusional if you think the USSR was anything remotely close to economically successful in the long term.
>>55288720
Feudalism was actually expensive : they had to feed their workers.
>>55288089
Smart post
>>55287926
Have you been to Walmart they are not one percenters.
>>55288760
>Your life and your Mercedes aren't the same ontologically though.
You're a thief. Why not just admit it and skip all the bullshit rationalizations?
>>55288624
Speak for yourself noguns
>>55288785
besides that it is unethical?
>>55288234
They're not advocating Cuban policies.
>>55288017
>Why is it such a meme to hate capitalism?
Similar to 90% of athiests being mental children, eternally butthurt that their parents made them go to church on sundays, edgy left wing 20 year olds are mad they're stuck working a shitty job at mcd's and not being able to live the celebrity life they see on their iphone screens.
>>55287591
>well me demanding that we fix the price of labor higher doesn't suit my narrative therefore its capitalism's fault
>>55287591
But that's wrong.
First of all, raising the minimum wage is a government issue unrelated to capitalism.
Second, the minimum wage affects a minority of workers. Most people make enough to provide an adequate standard of living.
>>55288021
>part time fast food workers
More people than that get paid min. wage
>>55287591
I'm disappointed at my spelling error, but I pissed off quite a few bernie fags today
>>55288836
1%s globally. 99% of people on Earth make less than something like ~30k$/yr.
>>55288864
Hege
>>55288858
You are the thief.
You're stealing from society no matter what your laws say about it.
>>55288478
The point is that there are only a few people who don't have anyone poorer than them.
>>55288514
lol pay your debts you dumb idiot. Do you seriously think wealth redistribution benefits a federal economy? I can't believe people like you can exist. If what you believe is true why would anyone excel in any field? Why bother? Lets all be african and hope someone hooks us up with a nice place to live, healthcare and a job. Why would you want to stifle small business, entrepreneurship and economic growth?
If everything is shared then you live in the coubntry of Jamal with the main export being dank ass raps.
>>55288872
Tell me, Vmbk, what is your political position?
>>55288812
All adequately-maintained systems of government & commerce that provide a means of adequate living for the working class are expensive. But they are at least economically stable and able to resist otherwise-inevitable revolution.
>>55288658
USSR was on the way out in the early 80s.
Get fucked Gommie.
>>55288613
Interesting thought
>>55288942
If thats how you think of yourself, not my problem. I don't. I can excel without the carrot and the whip.
by raising the minimum wage you are making capitalism unstable and unable to provide for people. Fucking nihilistic conniving communist pukes make me sick, how they cynically manipulate facts.
>>55288515
best answer ITT
>defending the USSR
>>55288500
It's an illustrative example.
They have a working class job, but want a middle class lifestyle. But that's fucking wrong. If you want a middle class lifestyle, you better have a middle class job which usually requires some valuable skillset.
>>55288930
99% of people only have to spend the equivalent of an American dime for a loaf of bread. What is your point?
>>55288689
I never said to check privilege. I was pointing out a logical fallacy that you just described as "check your privilege."
>>55288988
not all that interesting
just literally basic economics that liberals have a real hard time getting through their heads
>>55287890
You are right though. People don't know the difference between needs and wants. Why should unskilled and inexperienced people be entitled to premium expenses like high speed internet or luxury vehicles. Sorry you had a kid at 15, it's not my problem.
>>55288514
your an idiot
>>55288936
Saying "Your idea of what is adequate is not realistic" is different than saying "You can't complain because you aren't the poorest human to ever live."
>>55288720
Never mind that every single one of those systems either crashed and burned quickly or provided lower standards of living and less freedom than capitalism.
>>55288933
>You are the thief.
>You're stealing from society no matter what your laws say about it.
Doublethink. If you come to my house and take away my computer, you are stealing. You aren't going to give my computer to "society", you fraud. You'll keep it for yourself or give it to a friend. "Society" is just the false pretext for your thievery.
>>55289054
A federal minimum wage doesn't take the local standard of living into account either-- what's yours?
>>55289149
I don't want to come to your house. I want to grow up spiritually from the hunter-gatherer mindset and become a rational actor.
>>55288759
>forgotten more history than I've learned
I can see you must have forgotten a lot. :^)
Also the "bottom rung" wasn't the majority of war deaths. There were massive casualties for both soldiers and civilians.
And yes, Stalin's death toll is often exaggerated to 50-100 million. He killed 20 million or so.
>>55288763
Collapsed for several reasons.
And I'm not a communist.
Man I couldn't sell my labor for $15 here until my junior year of college
The unskilled unemployed black population that desperately need work to rebuild the fabric of their community would have almost no hope except for worthless government ditch digging/ditch filling jobs.
I really think such an increase would devastate the the extreme poor in states like Mississippi
>>55289245
>Collapsed for several reasons.
None of which were central planning, I suppose
>>55288535
I think for full time jobs yeah. If you are spending 40 hrs a week doing something you should not be homeless.
>>55289290
What if that something is digging a hole and filling it back in
>>55288535
you used to be able too but currency aint worth shit these days
>>55289077
>what is market socialism
>>55289325
that's just stimulating the economy my man
>>55289211
>I don't want to come to your house
But you will if I don't surrender my property to you; that is how authoritarian left-wing governments invariably operate. If I refuse to participate in your vision of how I should live my life, a secret policeman will knock at my door. You need the secret policeman because otherwise everyone will very sensibly ignore you and keep on living as they have always done.
>>55289043
>middle class lifestyle
c'mon this is not true at all. They dont want to be able to afford a house and 2 cars etc. They want to be able to afford an apartment and 1 car.
>>55289282
Partially yes. Flaws in the planned economy started appearing in the 70s, but there were other factors.
>>55289245
You seem to be in full damage control mode, putin. How mad does it make you that the USSR economy failed?
>>55288613
>cut taxes
Never gonna happen and it shouldn't anyway. Corporations exist at the pleasure of the state, not the other way around.
>and benefits
For lower-wage earners, they've already been cut.
>and then the employees can negotiate for better wages for their employers
Employees already try to do this and they are often fired for it, particularly when they are expendable worker bees. And without the additional tax burden, they'll fire the uppity, higher-pay-seeking employees anyway - tax burden or no, why pay more when you don't have to?
>>55289325
Then we make immigrants do it.
>>55289214
>Stalin's death toll is often exaggerated
I like you Stalin apologists. Very interesting, and in a bad way.
test post for state flags
>>55287591
if youre over 25 and you still work min wage job you should kill yourself
>>55289386
You're all so insecure about losing your few possessions that's you're missing out on the whole earth. I don't wanna fight any of you; eventually humanity will grow out of the competitive state and into the co-operative state. Whatever. Good luck with capitalism, I mean it. Most of the people itt will need it, but at that time they'll be too alone and weak to change it.
>>55289389
if you don't have kids before you're married, have two sources of income in the house you can make ends meet quite well even with shit jobs.
problem is single mothers i think
>>55287591
Well then they might as well go with $2500/hr
>>55289386
This seems to me to be an aspect of authoritarian governments, regardless of which side of the political spectrum they occupy.
>>55289363
>>55289439
I yield in the face of superior arguments
>>55288089
>the only way is for humanity to be different
Great solution there buddy.
That line of thinking leads to reeducation camps and assassination of dissenters.
>>55287707
>>55287879
>>55288658
The original concept of communism has never been sucessfully executed in any government because of:
1. There needs to be an excess of supplies and services in the society for it to work.
2. All communist governments have been corrupted in some way or form so that the spread isn't equal among all citizens.
3. None of the communist societies have been able to make the original concept work in the real world.
Communism in its purest form isn't a bad idea [read Looking Backwards by Edward Bellamy for an example], but it hasn't ever been executed in this manner because people tend to corrupt things with their greed, and there aren't any countries with the elements needed to make a successful communist republic.
>>55289442
Not a Stalin apologist, just saying that his death toll is often stretched too far.
>>55289389
>They want to be able to afford an apartment and 1 car.
... in San Francisco or Manhattan.
As I said above, central banking policies are destroying the economy, massive legal and illegal immigration is driving down the price of labour, and foreign ownership of housing is making it impossible for young people to afford homes. But even in this shitty situation young people would do better if they moved away from the biggest cities.
>>55289527
Nice straw man.
>>55289389
Compared to 30 years ago today over 80% of the bottom 20% of income earners have a car apartment cable AC among other things which less than 30% had back then.
Shit improves overtime niggers need to learn patience otherwise we're gonna be Roman collapse dark ages 2.0 again.
We are already far down this path due to
>>55288515
>>55287591
Too bad socialism doesn't even exist
>>55288993
What do you excel at? Nothing. I operate a masonry outfit and cater to residential, commercial and industrial. There is no carrot and whip here, it's more along the lines of My income is equivalent to the work I put in and the contracts I secure. You need to start paying your debts, and realize that you can't succeed in life owing debts and being a stinky greek.
>>55287591
clearly not because they've been surviving quite well. Many of them are in fact obese.
>>55289490
>You're all so insecure about losing your few possessions that's you're missing out on the whole earth
I'm not missing out on anything. I have a very nice, if modest, lifestyle and I don't want it interfered with by authoritarian lunatics.
Capitalism is not "structurally" anything. It's not a structure. It's people buying and selling shit freely. If you're opposed to that, you are literally retarded.
>>55289545
Not too wrong, at least this would fix things for the short-term. The FED and IMF and all these institutions are the central planners of today and you're still talking about Stalin. That's how I know you're not very smart.
>>55289490
>Good luck with capitalism, I mean it
Good luck bankrupting the entire European continent with whatever your nutso economic views can be called, I mean it.
>>55289499
>if you don't have kids before you're married, have two sources of income in the house you can make ends meet quite well even with shit jobs.
I agree with that statement.
Well single mothers are a symptom of a greater degradation of our society they in of themselves are not the problem. I personally have a shit job but I dont think min wage should be higher. I have to work with a lot of single moms. They act like the world owes them something.
>>55288227
That's the opposite of what he said.
>>55289508
Agreed. The real enemy is and always has been the State, with its monopoly on legal violence. A government is at best a necessary evil.
>>55288089
>Companies will lay off employees wherever robotics can replace them and then their product's prices will raise because of increasing minimum wage+them trying to make a profit
How'd that work when 90% of jobs were lost in less than 30 years due to mechanization of agriculture?
Right food prices plummeted and the same thing has happened in literally every field where increased mechanization/automation has been introduced.
Luddite
>>55289591
>Too bad socialism only works in white countries
FTFY
I would donate to Sanders, except he only references white countries as successes
Then why don't we just pay everyone $10,000 per hour?
>>55289636
>1% has 70% of all "tokens" and ownership titles
>we'll cooperate freely with you guys, we promise
>>55288535
Yes, the minimum wage in murica was established at a time when it was a healthy living wage.
It's not meant for highschool kids to earn pocket money and even today, most of the people on minimum wage are middle aged parents.
There was actually a statement read when the law was passed but I can't remember where I saved it, it mentions that if a business can take 40 hours of someones life but can't afford to pay them enough to live then it doesn't need to exist.
Indeed companies like walmart which exemplify scorched earth capitalism really shouldn't be allowed to function.
>>55287591
>Import shitskin and outsource
>Lobbied and shilled hard by these kind of people for crony corporations to get cheap wage slaves
>Surprised that wages drop due to over saturation of the job market, and infrastructure cant keep up and housing prices rise
>Blame capitalism and racism
Day of the rope when?
>>55289643
>The FED and IMF and all these institutions are the central planners of today and you're still talking about Stalin. That's how I know you're not very smart.
Our society constantly obsesses over the Nazis, who have been effectively dead for 70 years. Very few people are actually aware of the even bloodier legacy of Communism, by contrast.
You disavow Stalin, but you will inevitably recreate his policies by trying to seize control of people's lives. That is why he is still relevant.
>>55289770
Well unlike your shitty authoritarian government, the United States' government is not meant to decide what businesses should exist and what shouldn't based on how much they pay.
>>55287591
Sadly this pretty much didn't get reported on CNN or any news show, that I know of
>Walmart: Wage hikes are killing our profits
https://archive.is/uU6yK
They increased wages to $9/hour just this year and outlook is down until 2017
Wages are supposed to go up to $10/hour in February
>>55287591
Down with the proletariat!!
>>55289770
>even today, most of the people on minimum wage are middle aged parents
When is this meme gonna go away?
and like another anon said minimun wage CAN be a healthy living wage if you know how to spend your money right and budge, and more importantly DONT fucking have kids.
>>55289888
Budget*
>>55289543
>Not a Stalin apologist
Right, and I'm the queen of England.
>>55287707
go back to /k/ you crossboarding tripfag
>>55289770
>it mentions that if a business can take 40 hours of someones life but can't afford to pay them enough to live
If it really didn't pay them enough "to live" then they would die. Presumably you mean "to live well", but you should be honest and say so.
>>55289589
I don't really support a $15 wage. I do think the federal should be raised to something around $8.50-$10.10.
>>55289681
I sell cellphones to poor people who can't afford them my fiance works catering and attends grad school. That's two pretty shitty incomes but because we don't have stupid debt or a kid we can afford our condo and a car and some luxuries.
People just make bad choices early and expect somebody to bail them out. Having a kid before youre financially stable is such a terrible idea but they don't understand it until after they do it and often then they expect others to bail them out.
>>55288658
>socialist in some ways
Don't you mean in all ways?
Go live in a Khrushchyovka.
>>55287591
Minimum wage kills the poor
>>55289770
>Yes, the minimum wage in murica was established at a time when it was a healthy living wage
The minimum wage in America was first instituted to keep black construction workers from being able to compete with Union labor on government contracts.
It was designed from the ground up as such and had also been used for the same purpose in apartheid south Africa
>I saved it, it mentions that if a business can take 40 hours of someones life but can't afford to pay them enough to live then it doesn't need to exist
This would kill off very very large numbers of both small businesses including my family's who employes 5 people.
>Indeed companies like walmart which exemplify scorched earth capitalism really shouldn't be allowed to function.
Never mind that Walmart alone has lead to around a 20% decrease in cost of living which massively benefits lower class workers.
>>55289834
>gubment
Didn't say anything about the government deciding anything, the american people should just stop buying from walmart or agreeing to work for them.
Or more specifically, stop interacting with the assholes who own walmart.
Also strayas government is authoritarian, our populace is just made up of too many knee jerking boomers.
>>55289389
They have always been able to afford it, I suppose. Then I don't understand why they're constantly bitching and moaning about muh bad capitalism. I'm telling you, there's more to that than an apartment and a car. They want all those nice and shiny things they see on TV and they want it now, because otherwise they won't be cool. And if they're unable to afford them, they take a loan. Later they can't pay off the loan so their bitching and moaning about muh bad kabidalizm intensifies because they are little entitled shits who don't understand that flipping burgers shouldn't be able to provide you with luxury goods. I have zero respect for these people because I grew up among them and know exactly how they think.
>>55289823
Hey mate I didn't even talk politics. My problem is personal and its with the rampant cognitive dissonance I see here. Unlike you I don't hate people, regardless of their class standing.
>>55290071
>Unlike you I don't hate people,
Stop being such a whiny bitch just because people can see through your idiotic opinions.
>>55289941
Again all that will do is price out people who's skills are not worth that.
This harms low skill workers the most because that is exactly what the minimum wage was designed to do.
>>55290106
This.
>My lack of substantive opinions are superior because I don't hate people!
>>55287591
>one poor example
>BTFO
Are you even trying anymore?
t. Laid off working middle class worker
>>55290037
I think it has more to do with having kids on min wage it just doesnt work.
>>55287591
"Adequate", thats the weasel word right here.
>Theres enough money for everyone to get paid $15 per hour, and if I had that I could afford to rent the apartment I want and eat at the restauarant I want to eat
Yes, okay, but then would not all the literal millions of people who currently earn the same as you also be competing for the exact same thing?
>Yes but we have enough to build MORE of these things
Yes, okay but then will you not say that the new things built to satisfy your desires are not "adequate"?
Its hilarious how these peoples minds work. How many people who have jobs are living like fucking poor immigrants from the 30's?
> Running water and sewage
> Electricity
> No need to worry about freezing to death in your own home
> Eats every day
> NOT ADEQUATE. NOT ADEQUATE. NOT ADEQUATE.
Look at Cuba. They are actually smart.
"We have limited resources and we all live on this island together. In order to survive with limited resources these are the policies we need to put in place"
Explain how cuba works to these cunts and they will probably agree that its good. And yet..somehow they miss the analogy.
I want off this ride.
>>55290071
Have you learned Arabic yet, faggot?
>>55290156
Eh not really $7.25 to $8.50 I think that's a little slippery slope there.
>>55290106
You keep on proving my points one after one. Whatever. If all non-degrading human interactions are whiny to you there's no point in talking.
>>55287591
>government enforced action on economy doesn't work
>LOL SEE STUPID CAPITALISTS
>government enforced
oh, tumblr
>>55290030
Ever think people shop at Walmart because it is in their best interest to do so?
You're telling lower income people to pay more for basic goods.
I'm sure they appreciate that
>>55290240
>If all non-degrading human interactions are whiny to you there's no point in talking.
There's definitely no point in talking to someone who pretends to read the minds of others and magically discern the "hate" lurking within. The only people I hate are authoritarians and rightly so.
>>55289888
>When is this meme gonna go away?
Never because it's the truth.
>>55289939
People would literally die trying to live on walmarts wages if they didn't have government subsidies to assist them.
Also I was paraphrasing a quote given when minimum wage laws were introduced, it's not a direct from me statement.
>>55289919
I'll do that when you can legally own an AR-15. A proper AR-15.
>>55288227
>Myth: The federal minimum wage goes up automatically as prices increase.
>Fact: Prices increase automatically as the federal minimum wage goes up.
>>55290301
Memelord, when someone says 'fuck the proles' aren't they hateful and 'whiny' to the vast majority of humans in existence?
>>55289530
communism in its purest form doesnt exist, it will never exist, because it refuses to factor in
Natural scarcity
Natural corruption
Natural selfishness
Natural lack of immediate and encapsulating transfer of information
Communists are the highest totem pole feel-gooders who think pouring their heart out for people who would fuck them sideways will change them, creating a chain of events leading to a happy utopia. They fail to realize that it won't work, due to the natural consequences of human interaction ive stated above. They suffer from delusions of grandeur, and are usually mentally stable. Hence why they cannot understand how wrong they are.
These fucking idiots don't understand anything.
The value of labor going down-down-down is the fault of their own policies. From giving women the vote all the way to importing subhuman non-whites to work unskilled jobs.
If they want the "minimum wage" to have more value, they need to turn from Marxism and the rest of the cultural terrorist left.
>>55289767
You don't deserve anything, faggot
>>55290270
I'm telling lower income people not to run local business into the ground by supporting a conglomerate undercutting the market.
To put things in perspective, if the government owned walmart you nig nogs would be shouting from the roof tops about it.
>>55290368
mentally unstable*
>>55290359
>when someone says 'fuck the proles'
I never said anything of the kind. Don't be a liar as well as a whiner.
>>55287591
CALL THE COPS
THIS CIVILIZATION'S A FLOP
>>55288720
You think feudal serfs lived better than the U.S. working class? Is this part of the "serfs got 4 months of vacation" meme?
Anyway, the solution isn't raising the minimum wage. That will indeed raise prices and make things even worse. The solution is to move away from this monetarist system towards a resource-based economy.
>>55287591
When tumblrites say that every job should be a career, they're really just admitting that they can't be assed to work hard. What does the minimum wage have to do with capitalism? It's a government price floor, not a mechanism of the free market. The free market allows for any possible wage. There are many jobs not worth the minimum wage that have been eliminated. The difference is this time, people actually think they should be able to work in a mcdonalds and be taken care of by the state from cradle to grave because they're too stupid to get past mcdonalds.
We need to institute debtor's prisons and forced labor.
>>55287670
no things are much more nuanced than that. Our economy is not running at peak competitiveness therefore most of what people learn in economics goes right out the window.
>>55290394
I deserve what I get :^)
>>55288227
You realize federal minimum wage is entirely irrelevant in 99 percent of states in the US, as almost all have state laws overriding it.
I believe there is one state in the US that still pays federal minimum wage (which is around $7.15 if i recall correctly)
Your reply was absolutely uncalled for and had nothing to do with what he said, I might add.
>>55290456
Serfs were impoverished but it is true that they didn't work much during the winter. In Russia some of the peasant families used to just get into bed and stay there for months at the coldest time of the year.
>>55287591
>indoor plumbing
>smart phone
>3 squares a day
>hundreds of channels on their flat panel TV
>gaming consoles
>etc.
>not an adequate standard of living
Fuck, even the one job, minimum wage workers have a TV and food. It's not like they're starving. If you're working a minimum wage job you can't expect to be driving a beamer and living in a 3,500 sq. ft. house. If you want more money, get an education or find a better job.
>>55289767
Fuck off greece, your economy is a fucking joke. Why would anyone want to take your suggestins
>>55290463
yeah lets barter for everything
>>55290423
I just grouped you in with your political friends who say it, like you accused me of wanting to rob you. Feels nice, doesn't it?
>>55290463
Wealth is so heavily divided in the favor of the one percent that raising the minimum wage won't even touch the cost of living, just like it never touched the cost of living anywhere else it was implemented.
>inb4 some sister fucker confuses that one time a country converted its currency system but kept the same notes with a raise of the minimum wage
>>55290332
This.
It's funny that people don't understand how inflation works.
>hurr why don't we raise the minimum wage tenfold?
>what do you mean prices and unemployment would skyrocket? are you a fucking jew or hwat?
>>5528759
if it wasn't for socialist/empathetic policies towards the poor incentivizing bad decisions so they bred like rabbits this wouldn't be a problem. Capitalism makes it so people have to live within their means.
>>55290621
>like you accused me of wanting to rob you.
But that is true, though. You would divest people of their possessions.
>>55290175
Even animals understand you don't lay your eggs before the nest is built
>>55290188
"Adequate" "fair(share)" "living wage" etc in political rhetoric means one thing
More
>>55290229
It really isn't.
There have been dozens of cases of farmers leaving their crops to rot in the feild because illegal migrant workers being cracked down upon and legal American workers being to expensive to do the work Without the farmers taking an even bigger loss.
Price controls don't work and create black markets or shortages.
This is shown going all the way back to Diocletian in Rome
As another example think of college interns.
They don't get paid anything because what they offer as students learning the ropes tend to not be worth even the minimum wage so we passed laws to make it legal for them to work for free.
Or the mentally disabled how are exempt from minimum wage laws so they can get menial jobs like greaters at Walmart making only a couple dollars an hour.
Examples like this are not lacking and are all clear admissions that the minimum wage harms low skill workers.
>>55287591
>government implements minimum wage
>price of labor skyrockets
>price of goods follows suit
>corporations outsource labor to countries with much lower minimum wage/price of living in response to government artificially spiking labor prices
>government subsidizes and bails out said corporations
>bourgeois white teenage girl uses technology created by capitalism, on a site hosted and created by capitalists, to say that capitalism is evil
>>55290621
>I just grouped you in with your political friends who say it,
So you did lie. Surprise, surprise.
I'm a prole myself, as it happens. Born in a slum in Glasgow. That's why I don't trust middle-class cunts claiming they're going to improve my life by taking away what little I already have.
>>55290577
Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually run my country's economy. Shocking, I know.
>>55288181
>Even if you're right and the people are more than the jobs then we should create jobs.
You make it sound as if we can just pull these things out of thin air while still being efficient.
>>55290552
That's not minimum wage, that's living at home with your parents. Occasionally supplementing your income by selling drugs.
Minimum wage is working 60 hours worth of split shifts a week for three different companies and qualifying for food stamps.
>>55289490
The whole earth is meaningless when you don't have the means to cultivate it. And when your means are determined by others you're inevitably shit out of luck aren't you? I have faith in humanity to determine the best for the species at large, but not for me individually. People are inherently greedy, I'd prefer the system that gives me the motivation, and perhaps more importantly the opportunity, to achieve that higher standard as opposed to the one that unnaturally imposes the lowest standard and forces it on everyone .
>>55290667
I don't have or want power to do this.
>>55290545
Serfs lived off of the land, so no they didn't work much during the winter. They also didn't eat much during the winter. That's not a vacation though, as a group of liberals who want to pain previous eras where better than our current, capitalist one pretend it is.
>>55287997
Holy shit. Diamonds.
>>55290672
>Or the mentally disabled how are exempt from minimum wage laws so they can get menial jobs like greaters at Walmart making only a couple dollars an hour.
they get the carts where i used to work its really good for them, makes them think theyre helping honestly heartwarming
>>55287591
wait wat.
peoples arguments are that raising the minimum wage will cause the economy to be "unable to provide an adequate standard of living for the working class."
yet this retard bimbo somehow turned it around and is arguing that it's the opposite holy shit.
>>55290552
The hilarity being that they don't understand that if they had all the "things" they need, a beamer, a 3500 sq ft house etc at their "level".. so would everyone else, and it wouldn't be special any more, and they wouldn't want it.
Fuck man go back to 1910 and tell people you bought a low mileage car for a couple of months wages.
Or go back to the 1960's and tell them that a decent fridge costs less than 2 weeks wages. Fuck me man. I used to work with an old dude and he said his first refrigerator cost over a years wages.
>>55290735
See:
>Why is wealth redistribution hilarious? You aren't entitled to anything.
Pretty interesting viewpoint for someone who claims NOW that he doesn't want to 'redistribute'.
>>55290672
>As another example think of college interns.
>They don't get paid anything because what >they offer as students learning the ropes tend >to not be worth even the minimum wage so >we passed laws to make it legal for them to >work for free.
>Or the mentally disabled how are exempt >from minimum wage laws so they can get >menial jobs like greaters at Walmart making >only a couple dollars an hour.
>Examples like this are not lacking and are all >clear admissions that the minimum wage >harms low skill workers.
Can you cite that because im pretty sure those statements are horseshit
>>55290406
>I'm telling lower income people not to run local business into the ground by supporting a conglomerate undercutting the market.
I'm sorry that you can't see the other side of your suggestion from your ivory tower.
The fact is that Walmart alone has lowered the cost of living which disproportionately helps the lower class and poor.
You want these people to have their price of living increased because of your inane vision of the world and what you think is best for people.
The poor are not some retarded pet that need your guidance they are fully functional human beings that largely understand what is beneficial to them.
>>55290698
Whatever. You said you're happy. That's good, honestly. It's just a pity just some people can't be happy no matter how hard they try. They were born in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe you'll take an interest in that eventually.
>>55290711
Efficient for whom? A system is efficient when it works for everyone.
>>55290735
You want others, ie government forces, to do it for you; we get it. Don't be surprised when you meet resistance to that idea, even if it's lethal.
>>55290629
Minimum wage does influence cost of living and more importantly unemployment rate. Of course it depends on how much you raise it and how many people will be affected.
>>55287685
That's like saying "It's okay I got a D in this test because some other kid got an E", you should aspiring for comparing yourself to the best possible, not the worst.
>>55290732
And so what? That's the standard thats available to you, given your learned skills, talents, and the resources available.
You still live better than, what, 70% of all other living humans? Maybe more? Fuck off.
>>55290821
There is no contradiction if you passed primary school. It's an intellectual argument about entitlement, not taking away. One can always offer.
>>55287591
What's their alternative to capitalism?
Oh wait, they don't have one...
>>55290891
Ayy lmao. Am I being detained?
>>55290956
Yes they do.
GIBS ME DAT
>have a decades-long cold war against a real and dangerous threat to the Western system
>"communism doesn't work"
Pick one.
Communism didn't "win", sure, but I think saying it didn't work is stretching things considering that the USSR was a globe-spanning hegemon on par with the USA. And this isn't even addressing how living standards soared under Communism compared to the Tsarist regime that preceded them, or how you can't just ignore the fact that Russia has always always always been a shithole but, under Communism, for a little while, it was slightly less of one.
>>55290463
>resource-based economy.
I remember the first time I saw zeitgeist.
The concept of money was universally invented across all forms of human civilization because what you suggest is grossly inefficient.
>>55290930
>It's an intellectual argument
There's nothing intellectual about it. Redistribution inherently requires force. Redistribution is nothing more than a codeword for theft. Nobody is going to give away their belongings unless the only other choice is being shot to death.
>One can always offer.
You first, Jesus.
>>55290847
>some people can't be happy no matter how hard they try. They were born in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe you'll take an interest in that eventually.
It's not my job to save the rest of the world from the consequences of their own decisions, and it'd be pointless to try even if I did want to. Everyone should "brighten the corner where they are" and mind their own fucking business; busybodies always end up staffing Gulags.
>>55290839
It hasn't lowered the cost of living without drying up employment and lowering wages.
These people are morons addicted to cheap shit with no idea what it will cost them in the long run, just like the native Americans selling off their land for beads these fat disgusting assholes sell of their childrens future for the ability to buy 64 cans of cheese whizz at slightly above whole sale.
>>55290977
So you're just going to knock on my door and requisition my truck for the good of the neighborhood? And I'm supposed to say "Yeah okay, sure,"?
>>55289132
socialism still exists today.
Monarchy was overthrown by the jews
Fascist and national socialism were literally destroyed out of ideological spite
Fedualism became outdated once the colonial era began and wealth was abundent ergo there was no need for such a strict heirarchy of warrior class and serf/slave class.
>>55291000
Yeah m8, nothing we invented was useless at a time or another. Do you still use candles at home or have you evolved to electricity?
>>55290999
Really? Better than the tsars? Thats like comparing getting raped with a pineapple with getting raped with a slightly smaller pineapple.
>>55291015
Why is that? Giving away your surplus belongings would be a peaceful way to socialism.
>>55290999
>Russia has always always always been a shithole but, under Communism, for a little while, it was slightly less of one.
This is certainly untrue when you consider the staggering death toll of the USSR and in particular how much day-to-day political repression there was under the Soviet regime. Political prisoners under Tsardom were far less numerous and treated extremely leniently (look up for example the soft punishment meted out to Lenin when he was young).
>>55290926
I think it's something like if you make 12-15k USD a year your in the top 1% of the entire world
>>55290986
Which anyone with any understanding of history knows isn't an alternative it is a nation killer
>>55288936
If you live in a house and have food, water and clothing and never have to feel cold then I gotta say there's not much to complain about. What you are complaining about is actually what others have. You should look to make sure there's enough in your neighbors bowl, not to check if your neighbor has more than you.
>>55291144
>treated extremely leniently
meant to add, "by comparison" here
>>55291080
>Yeah m8, nothing we invented was useless at a time or another
You're suggesting we go back to candles that was my point.
>>55290847
>A system is efficient when it works for everyone.
That's not the definition of efficiency now go pay debnts
>>55287591
>flood the country with foreigners
>bitch when the laws of economics mean a lower mean wage
Capitalism has worked in many countries. The fact that it doesn't in some just suggests that there are extraneous factors.
>>55291142
Because I worked for them. I earned them, I put in the effort for them. Why should I be forced to give them away? If I offered that'd be one thing, but the state has no right to take them away from me.
>>55289164
In how many states has the purchasing power of workers gone up with the stagnant minimum wage?
>>55290999
Has this troll been hijacked by a group of radical Australian shitposters?
Communist governments were always highly inefficient in assigning resources in the economy and it usually didn't have much to do with cold war. Read up on the famines in China and Ukraine. Read about empty shelves in the most advanced socialist countries. As a person from former socialist country I can't understand why communism is so popular among western youth who have no idea how ridiculous the planned economy system was.
>>55288017
>China
>Communist
Pick one
inb4 "Cuz the government is called communist"
>>55291142
>Giving away your surplus belongings would be a peaceful way to socialism.
"Surplus belongings"
Define this
>>55291107
It's almost as if Communism was a real and measurable improvement in the lives of people for most Russians.
>>55291144
>day-to-day political repression
First world problems.
>staggering death toll of the USSR
Gotta break a few eggs, comrade. The USSR ended famines in Russia, which had been a feature of that frigid country for as long as it had existed. That's more than a staggering improvement, that's immeasurable. The USSR guaranteed food security for millions upon millions of people - and much more besides. For all the staggering death toll life expectancy inarguably increased.
I say drop the minimum wage
What candidate agrees with me?
ITTl: Americans that don't work try to justify not raising the American minimum wage to first world standards
>>55291302
It's just so ridiculously hard to have individuals micro manage resources. Even when these governments had thousands of people trying they could never match the efficiency of a price based system. Way too many variables.
