Do you think combined effort of Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary will be able to stop influx of "refugees" into Europe?
>>55250692
No because they will just go around them, but its a start
Hungary has already done wonders, and are making EU greenie kuks rage so hard.
>>55250719
Slovakia is now patrolling the Slovenias borders too, so Austria and Germany wouldn't get infested so much. Hopefully more countries will join us.
>>55250692
Austria also to make "a small fence" to the border of slowenia :)
>>55250775
Yeah, I did read about you Austrians arming yourself with shotguns, which is nice, but it would be much better if your country would stop smuggling "refugees" to Germany at night and would just close its borders on South.
>>55250764
I just don't get it, why do they want them? Labor? They don't want to work they just want gibs me that. Falling population? Why not give your natives the financial stability to have larger families rather then give it to the filth that is currently coming over
>>55250843
no the best is doing both so we have to care less about them + some germans still make redugees welcome partys.
Nobody really says that it will be a fence so the liberals dont get butthurt. Its just called "bauliche Maßnahmen - structural measures".
>>55250898
World War III dude. Europe needs low IQ, easy to brainwash people and mudslimes are perfect for this purpose.
also they breed like rabbits, import 10 million now, have 100 million of them tomorrow
>>55250898
Falling population is just propaganda - we could easyly get some romanian or bulgarian workers. The only thing they really want are cheap workes which break our social system.
>>55251022
Just pack them in a train cart and put a rifle in their hand and one in their back, I like it. But how would you do it? Many countries can't even control them
>>55250692
yes but why should we do the EUs job for them? the EU is here to stay and we need to use our influence to change it into something sane
>>55251091
But they aren't cheap if they don't work and live off of welfare
>>55250692
Republic of Visegrad when?
>>55251177
Soon?
>>55251153
even if they worked it wouldnt have a positive effect for natives
>>55251177
It should be more of a confederation, ngl.
>>55250692
No. All without power and money. At best they can block majoritiy decision for some time. But because they are all dependent on EU money to some extent, they are not in the best position.
>>55251177
maaaaybe?
>>55250692
Europe no, their own countries maybe
>>55251315
Doubtful, once that crazed woman gets out things will get better
>>55251401
I don't know. Merkel is in no position to guide the refugee influx or stopp it. One often forget that she is not in a position like the president of the US. She has to act together with the leftists from the SPD.
>>55251107
Islam is the answer. Make your enemies their enemies, and they will attack blindly
>>55250692
>based
More like too poor to even begin taking care of "refugees", the reason you get a pass is because literally no country expect anything from you.
I say we give them a free passage. These western european keks don't deserve to win. This is the last time those keks have betrayed us, eastern europeans in the 20th and 21st century and I for one am tired of it.
>>55251592
"taking care of refugees". thank you for being so swedish
>>55251592
Swedas :D why i am not surprised ? :D u like to take care of them, dont you ?
>>55251720
He is right. Nobody expect it from the eastern states because everybody fears they collapse even under normal conditions.
>>55251315
They are not dependent on EU money at all. Eu money is good but they can live without it. They might not be able to stop the influx into Europe but they don't give a shit because they can stop the influx into their own countries.
>>55251177
Never! Something like west slav union could work (CZ,SK,PL) -- we are really similar. Hungarians are good for the time being, but only because of common "enemy".
And nothing against Hungarians (I am partly Hungarian), but let's be realistic, shell we?
>>55251503
But they see all of us as the enemy, short of converting what would you recommend or who should we turn their attention to
>>55251177
Might be cool.
>>55251767
>>5251592
Sweden and Germany. Oh my. You are just adorable.
>>55251592
You are already kill,soon you will be called "The islamic country"
>>55251773
I think it can work, if we just unite under an idea.
We have our differences of course, you'll always think you're better than us and vice versa, but in the face of an islamic invasion I think we can unite pretty well. And I also want to deport those damn turks and gyppos without NATO bombing the shit out of my country.
>>55251767
haha, only country that will collapse soon is yours and your shitty EU
>>55251592
>too poor to even begin taking care of "refugees"
So why are we forbidden from just dumping them on you guys or Germany then and what's with all this talk of "other countries have to pull their weight when it comes to the migrant crisis"?
>>55251820
It is simply the truth. Many in our nation also don't want fugees but you have to admitt that we can supply enough atm.
>>55251853
they get called isis
islamic state in sweden
>>55251769
The last time in the refugee quota, I guess poland surrender and voted for the EU, the rest where outvoted. We can discuss if thats fair but it is the truth.
>>55251915
So you want to support enough until you are too poor to do it any longer?
>>55251767
Yes germoney, we expect it of you, so you must do it or there will be zero ramifications, look at this dead syrian kid, how can you not gibs money fo dem programz and shiiiitz
>>55251977
Easy, by sinking the boats
>>55251773
I dont really care if i speak slovak,czech or polish,as well as i dont care if i am slovak,czech,hungarian or polish.
And lot of ppl i know feel the same,but because brainwashed nationalists like you we will be poor forever
>>55251915
And that is why Angela ibn Merkel wants every eu country to accept quotas. Because Germany and Sweden give shit about eastern europe. Yeah sure.
>>55252013
I second this, Pirates of the Mediterranean when?
>>55251964
No. But if one EU country can carry this burden for some time it is germany. Even if I don't like this.
>>55251909
"But the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia all voted against a mandatory quota, while Poland deserted its regional allies to side with a decision pushed by Germany and France."
Thanks poland.
>>55252026
No that far from the truth. Merkel fear negative press, if more powerless than you thank and don't want to be responsible for havcoc on the balkan.
>>55252129
Poles are keks desu, my friend went to work in england and he was working with a pole, the pole sweared at him and he beat the shit out of him and got fired because of it. I swear poles are fucking jews.
>>55252129
You, you personally.
This is your fault for not killing Merkel and her cronies in the night.
>>55252129
the goverment did, against majority of the people. And they lost the elections 2 weeks ago.
>>55252240
Maybe. But you still have Obama has a president, elected twice. The next one will be clinton. Tell me more about responsibilities.
>>55252099
But you dont have to carry that burden at all. Your country has made its own life hard through taking charge of the whole regions problems, and is now guilt-tripping anyone who might say they fucked up.
Your burden was to lead the bickering EU states toward a common and neutral policy, but you have ditched that responsibility in exchange of becoming a sidekick to Captain Swedens multiculty adventure
>>55252255
Do you think our goverment cares about majority decisions ? Do you think we are all do "Refugee welcome parties" ?
I don't like the EU, it will lead to a mass influx on fugees for german but also forced quota for every other nation.
>>55252171
You just don't get it. Syrian problem is neither your nor our problem. We don't border on Syria. And now you are proud that you can affort to provide for them. You are just plain stupid.
>>55252331
Germoney invited the world so they got the world.
>>55252331
You are right. This moral approach can only and will go wrong because nobody want to follow. But: Who let them all in ? Who let them pass ? Why did for example the EU (and the fucking gulf states) did not pay for the food in refugees camps in syria for example ? With the begining of the year the food was shortend to app. half. Than the huge masses moved.
>>55251177
You could call it the Great Moravian Republic.
>>55252369
>We don't border on Syria
So could all the fugees enter the EU ? Why did the whole fucking EU did not care to build a concept ? What did these fuckers thought will happen in a borderless region when the front states simply don't care ?
>>55252375
>Germoney invited the world so they got the world.
We did not. Problem is we have pretty generous asylum laws thats right, second are the EU laws.
To change the asylum laws you need a huge majority because it is part of the constitution.
>>55252020
You are wrong, man, i am not nationalistic (you don't have to be personal to make your point), i am just trying to be realistic.
The EU is a good example of how unification based on some abstract idea is (sadly) not working.
But i might be wrong.
>>55252462
Angela don't care either. You can easily build wall on the border but nooooo. That is why this is your problem, so stop whining
>>55252331
>Your burden was to lead the bickering EU states toward a common and neutral policy
It did not work and never will. Germany was always afraird to act alone and tried to act only after majority decision. This could not work, see greece. We paid the majority therefore we did not want other (especially france) to invest our tax payers money.
The EU refugee crisis is similar: We should a concept long ago. The eastern states where against any legal form /quota, some like greece and italy just passed them to ger and swe. This was right from the start a lack of leadership.
>>55252216
Poles on immigration are a lot fucking worse than the ones we have in the homeland.
>>55252413
>Who let them all in ? Who let them pass ?
Pointing fingers is pointless at this stage, but you let them in. Hungary was hassled and accused of crimes against humanity by germans when it tried to follow protocol on refugee handling. You specifically told the border states to just let them come through, and to top it off, invited the masses from other countries to come along as well.
And we could have sent supplies and manpower to the refugee camps, but that was not good enough. Someone in germany screamed that your population is aging, and so you took a horde in in hopes of getting free money out of it.
You took them in because you wanted more people, more taxes, more power that your aging population could not sustain. This is greed that drove you to destroy the EU, not some high-minded greater good.
>>55252216
I would also beat shit from some fucking bulgarian
>>55252584
>You can easily build wall on the border but nooooo
Check the Schengen Treaty and then tell me again. Also you overestimate the power of merkel. The leftists SPD are completly against something like this.
Also: What do you think would happen to all the fugees stuck on the balkan ? A politician can not want to have mass graves, pretty bad press.
>>55252525
>Never!
> Hungarians are good for the time being
Right,you sound like realistic person,not nationalistic at all.
>>55252506
So we do but we dont tell the wold that its soo nice in austria, we just keep our heads down and keep them in huge camps to make them belive we are poorfags https://youtu.be/opSnU8EpKGg
>>55252688
Merkel violated the Schengen agreement.
>>55252615
I know. Sad as it is, you are right that the project would have collapsed anyway due to internal problems long unaddressed. But you were the leader of that union. I had hope that you would come out of the greek crisis stronger and more decisive, but seems the refugee problems on top of it was the final coffin nail to it.
All that is left is to learn the lessons from this mess we have, and move on with the few pieces of EU that still work.
>>55250692
>stop influx of "refugees" into Europe
Not if we have a say in it.
>>55252670
There are voices in germany which complain about germanys aging population that is correct.
But honestly: Merkel is losing voters atm every week. She is not stupid, she did not want them. What she is doing now is putting a huge toll on her popularity. My best guess she simply tried to adjust to the flow.
The protocol for refguee handling mean registration and dublin II treaty. If you are honest you can't really complain that we let them in after every other EU country on the way fucked it up, put the package at our doorstep and told us "deal with it".
If they/every EU country on the way followed the law, we would a other problem.
Looks like we have a German death cult guy here.
>>55251315
Falsely pretending that the Balkans lack "power and money" to stop migrants, because they are dependent on EU money. In reality it's solely a question of political will. Basically death cult demobilizaton tactics - "its useless, they can do nothing to resist".
>>55251474
Wrongly claiming that Merkel can do nothing to guide the migrants. Wrongly describes them as "refugees". Deceitfully misrepresents that Merkel triggered a massive rush to Germany in the first place. Omits that she doesn't have to act with the SPD at all - if a reelection is triggered, the right would win votes, and the SPD would lose massively if they even tried to prevent strict policy at this point. Basically more demobilization, "Merkel is powerless, she can do nothing about this"
>>55251915
Says that people have to "admit" that Germany have the capacity to take in migrants at the moment.
>>55251948
Demobilization - presents this as the outcome of a democratic process.
>>55252099
Pretends to be in agreement - "doesn't like" migrants - but says that Germany can carry the burden.
>>55252171
Presents Merkel as powerless yet again. Scare mongering tactics, pretends that war would break out on Balkans - yes, Merkel is very innocent and can do nothing, and she means well.
>>55252413
Presents the migrant influx as the result of not providing enough food, thereby our causal and hence moral responsibility - "It's our fault, why were we so stupid that we did not provide them enough food? Now this happens because of us"
>>55252506
Demobilization - pretends that nothing can be done again because the constitution prevents it.
In reality, Germany could simply activate the Dublin treaty. Dublin treaty = deportation of pretty much everyone. This has nothing to do with constitutional limitations.
Someone, please bomb a death cult march or political gathering. Death cultists shouldn't be alive.
>>55252711
The fugees will arive via forced EU quota. But this will takes more time. Typcial EU stuff, you know.
>>55252711
No sit down,no bus!
>>55252772
Read again. Building borders again is only permitted under really rare circumstances and only for a limited time. Also the Schengen Treaty is on of the corner stones of the EU, nobody wanted to be responsible that the whole rubbish collapsed.
>>55252974
they wont get it otherwise
>>55252707
I do agree, my post sounds a bit harsh.
Ale budme racionalisti, obaja dobre pozname slovenske realie a nieco ako stat (alebo nejaka tesnejsia unia), kde by mali mat eqvivalentne postavenie Madarko aj Slovensko by proste nefungoval. Ani Cesko-Slovensko neprezilo slovensky nacionalizmus...
Je sice pravda, ze momentalne mame realivne dobre vztahy s Madarskom, ne len pre priklad, urcite si zaregistroval, ked si poslanec jobbiku chcel otvorit (alebo otvoil) poslanecku kancelariu na Slovensku a hned to bol problem (mne je to v skutocnosti 10, nech si tu kludne otvori aj 4 kaneclarie).
Kazdopadna, celu tuto diskusiu o V4 state povazujem skor za meme, nez za nieco realne.
Have a nice day, Slovakbro!
>>55252688
More red death cult.
>Also you overestimate the power of merkel. The leftists SPD are completly against something like this.
If the leftists oppose any measures, they could only trigger new elections, and would get politically wiped out. Merkel has full room to act - and if the SPD triggers elections, she could rely on the Right instead. She has full and complete power.
>>55252353
Falsely pretending that every EU member will be forced to take in migrants. "It's not just you Anon, everyone has to go through it". In reality Denmark takes almost none, and Eastern Europe takes almost none. The EU is powerless to force this apart from political blackmail.
>>55252942
"Anon, if you are honest, then we simply had to take them in because nobody else did". No, you didn't. You could have refused the package. Accepting the package has encouraged even more migrants to come.
False flag death cultists should be killed by bombing their marches and political meetings.
>>55252858
It was not all a bad idea. There are still many who refused a german lead EU which is a fact I can completly understand. But the current state is way worse. The greek crisis for us was problematic because like in many countries all problems are adressed as EU problems, while all the benefits are national.
But the greek crisis is typical: What do you do with a country who spends just money and is depending on your tax payer money ? Although I know germany paid the huge mass, especially the eastern nation took a huge economic toll in regards to their economic production.
>>55253019
>Read again. Building borders again is only permitted under really rare circumstances
Disinformation. The political "laws" you pretend apply have already collapsed with the end of the Dublin treaty. In reality, the countries that have built laws have had no problems at all with it. What would the EU do - send its military to tear them down?
And oh, "nobody wanted to be responsible for the whole rubbish collapsed" - so much in agreement with us all, it's a big load of rubbish, but anon, there is nothing we could do.
In reality, several countries have already set up physical barriers at their borders, and have suffered no problem from it.
You're attempting to demobilize, pretending that there is nothing to do, we may as well all go home, no way to stop this.
In reality there is. Step 1: Block migrants physically which Merkel and the left has freely chosen not to, step 2, bomb death cult marches and political meetings.
>>55250692
Not on their own. Italy and Greece must take up the struggle.
>>55253259
>the countries that have built walls
Encouraging everyone to bomb death cult meetings and marches.
>>55250692
>>55250764
What's the situation like over there, how large numbers of people are you currently getting? Are these patrols actually turning the migrants away? Also, is there anything someone here can do to help you or show support?
>>55252955
>Balkans lack "power and money"
This is the reality. They stopp them using the army for sure. But not in todays Europe.
>>55252955
>Omits that she doesn't have to act with the SPD at all - if a reelection is triggered, the right would win votes, and the SPD would lose massively
Check the polls. She is nowhere near a absolute majority. In fact, SPD, Left and Green part could soon form a goverment.
>>55252955
>Merkel is very innocent and can do nothing
Merkel is nowhere innocent but she is not leading this influx. I can label them as migrant, shitskins regugees or fugees. I don't want to express any political agenda with it.
>>55252955
>Germany could simply activate the Dublin treaty
This is just of theoretic value. This would in fact mean, deport them all to greece. Greece is not working under normal conditions requiring EU money just to keep the head over water. Don't get me wrong you have some right ideas but they are nowhere realistic.
>>55253393
Slovakia itself has 500 migrants only, and those are here only temporarily from Austria, to release the pressure on Traiskirchen camp. So after they will leave, we have 0 migrants.
>>55253119
>She has full and complete power.
You lack the internal german rift in the politic. Merkel would gain votes but no absolute majority. We still have left party, green and SPD (as you don't have right wing parties also). She has not complete power. >>55253119
>The EU is powerless to force this apart from political blackmail.
Yes. Political blackmail. That what will happen. (You want to get juicy EU fonds ? Take additional fugees or..)
>>55253119
>You could have refused the package
We should you are right. But this are not yet the time where you let them all die next to your border.
The more the better desu
>>55253259
We are not that far away. But in germany (especially here) there is a huge fear to act alone, taking the leadership and be responsible for the end of the EU.
What would the EU do ? For small countries, they could force them economically, bigger ones can't be forced. Trust me, even if you don't belife how someboy can be that insane: Merkel don't want to be responsible for the EU collaps. That why she send germanys tax payer money for example to greece even if this move was highly unpopular. She think she can find a solution in time while the migrant flux continues.
The problem is sometimes who breaks the law: Hungary building a border ? Neglected. Germany build a border ? End of schengen treaty, maybe even more because we would simply refuse to pay any fines and we are to important to be forced.
>>55253724
I think this was only a proxy rescue for many banks
>>55253437
>This is the reality. They stopp them using the army for sure. But not in todays Europe.
What do the people at 0:35 look like? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnID6hvwbCo
It's true - they could stop them using the police and the army, simply by building fences and supporting them. They could also deport them to other countries, again using the army.
"Not in todays Europe" is what we might call a "truth with modifications" - we are at a point where it's realistically starting to become possible. The Left doesn't want it, the EU centrally doesn't want it, Merkel doesn't want it, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.
>Check the polls. She is nowhere near a absolute majority. In fact, SPD, Left and Green part could soon form a goverment.
More disinformation. They are not near a majority, and with the current poll movements, they will be even further from it. Moreover, the Left party has been kept out of government because it's extreme. You're pretending that the choice is only between a left-wing policy as today or a radical left-wing policy, so Merkel does not have a choice - in reality, she does - if the SPD would ally with Die Linke, she could ally with AfD. In either case, you are not absolved of the moral responsibility of causing harm just because not doing so would risk your power.
> I can label them as migrant, shitskins regugees or fugees.
Ah, "one of us" again.
"Hey anons, I am one of you, I also hate the fugees and shitskins, but don't you think that it's our responsibility to take in more migrants, it's not tlike we have a choice and we can handle it?"
cont.
>>55252929
German planning to move to Canada here. Any tips?
>>55253844
Depends how you see it. It was also used to bully greece to change/reform it's state. Without the debts, or even debt reduction they could start to get new debts and continue. The state owned debt practically enforced that nobody supplied them with fresh money.
But you are right many french (!) and german banks were involved in greece.
>>55250692
how do i become a hungarian?
can i be a hungarian if i start praying to the spirit of atilla every night?
>>55251177
Looks too Austrian tbqh fem
>>55251773
we need to be best friends, not a family
>>55253437
>
>This is just of theoretic value. This would in fact mean, deport them all to greece.
When Germany has the legal right to do so, then that would force a political solution by the entire EU. It is Germany not following up on its legal right which has allowed this situation to develop.
If Germany had enforced the Dublin treaty in the first place, or simply started enforcing it tomorrow -- then that would force a political solution in the EU over night, and that political solution could only be to block the borders.
Again - because of Germany's political choice not to make use of international laws and treaties, this situation has developed. If they had done so, then EU would have been forced to stop migrants overnight.
And it's not like aiding them in Germany is better than in Greece - with the Greek unemployment, why would it be? You can help them much cheaper in Greece and employ Greeks to work in aid camps - why is it so much better that they come ot Germany than stay in Greece?
>>55253556
>But this are not yet the time where you let them all die next to your border.
The thread of deportation to Greece. Alternatively, whoever does not want to let them die near their border, bears the moral responsibility for taking them in. Now the death cult will kill Germans, because you didn't want to let migrants fend for themselves.
>Yes. Political blackmail. That what will happen. (You want to get juicy EU fonds ? Take additional fugees or..)
More attempts at demobilization. Tell me, how has the EU forced Hungary? Hungary has built a wall and has Orban in power - what kind of force or threats have they applied? What concessions have Hungary been forced to make on the immigration issue? None. Denmark? None.
You come up with a hundred reasons to present Western Europe as powerless and having no choice in the matter - but every reason you provide is grossly misleading or a lie.
>>55253930
>but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.
You are right. It is more a description of the current state, not the future. But in the moment, like in the video posted by you they simply storm the border. I don't think the smaller countries could efficiently close their borders atm without massive (!) help.
>>55253930
>They are not near a majority,
From yesterday: CDU 36 % , SPD 26 %, Green: 10 %, Left: 9 %, AfD 9 %.
Lets call a pretty close call. For me it is way more likely that the SPD, Left and Green form a coalition than CDU and AfD.
>>55253930
>you are not absolved of the moral responsibility of causing harm just because not doing so would risk your power.
That what nearly every politcian do everytimes. Thats why Merkel is still at the power. >>55253930
>Ah, "one of us" again.
You should seperate between the reality in europe today or wishful thinking.
>>55253930
Hey Norway, a few questions about your migrants. I heard you were at some point arguing whether to turn back at the border those migrants that come to Norway through Russia, but you ended up rejecting that idea. Is there a chance it could happen later? And has there been any discussion on doing the same with those who come from Sweden?
I'm curious mostly because we have the same problem; migrants leaking in from a neighbor. We mostly get them from Sweden, and Russia hasn't been too big of a problem so far, but we're pretty concerned it could become an issue at some point. Anyway, since our politicians don't want to do anything, I'm hoping someone else does something so our guys can finally act too (although there's a chance it could just mean that all the migrants come here next, and the government still doesn't want to act).
>>55250764
thank you based slovakia
>>55254228
>When Germany has the legal right to do so
Thaht right. What I guess what they will do is something a little bit more sophisticated. There are different types of protection in the asylum law in germany. I guess they will be labeld en mass in the time limited choice without the permission to get their families, e.g. after 1 -2 years they will want to go back on their own.
>>55254228
>Alternatively, whoever does not want to let them die near their border, bears the moral responsibility for taking them in
No EU decision what they should do with the current influx, greece had to protect the sea. This is not a problem of only greeces, the EU as whole did not decide at all (which is also a decision).
>>55254228
>What concessions have Hungary been forced to make on the immigration issue?
They got their quota, even if they did not like it. "EU governments push through divisive deal to share 120,000 refugees". This was the first forced majority decision.
>>55253724
>there is a huge fear to act alone, taking the leadership and be responsible for the end of the EU.
More disinformation. The EU would not have to end because of shutting out migrants. Why would it?
There's a crisis - this crisis is dealt with by shutting out or deporting migrants - the EU carries on.
You pretend this is not possible, so as to stack the weight as much as possible against shutting out migrants.
>What would the EU do ? For small countries, they could force them economically,
Hungary has built a wall, and there is no sign of them being forced to do anything.
>Merkel don't want to be responsible for the EU collaps.
Shutting out migrants would not mean the collapse of the EU. Even if she did believe it, that does not absolve her of the guilt of her actions.
>Germany build a border ? End of schengen treaty, maybe even more because we would simply refuse to pay any fines and we are to important to be forced.
You're exaggerating. It would be a temporary setback for Schengen, but it could be reimplemented in the future. Suspending Schengen in one specific area at one specific time does not need to mean the permanent end of Schengen - that is disinformation.
And if you don't do this, then you have the blood of the German nation on your hand. You will have economic collapse and untold misery from Germans forced to live amongst these migrants, and the deaths that result directly and indirectly.
As I have encouraged several times: People should bomb the political meetings and marches of the death cultists. They will spend their entire life spreading constant disinformation every moment of their life - but only as long as they are alive.
One single dead death cult member = a hundred thousand cases of public disinformation like this prevented. That's going by 8 a day over 40 years. 20 dead death cult members = 2 million disinformation posts that never came to be. And 20 is not a lot.
>>55254375
Awww, anything for you, little brother :-)
>>55250764
Thank you.
>>55254662
>The EU would not have to end because of shutting out migrants
Thats is indeed a point of major importance: How stable do you think is the EU ? The last time we had multiple last minute meeting on the highest level to contintue the ongoing greece crisis. Like nearly every crisis it was only averted because it germany paid the bill.
>>55254662
>and there is no sign of them being forced to do anything.
They got their quota shoved down their throat. Also: "Berlin calls for sanctions on EU states that reject refugee quotas". It will take some time, but it not that it isn't in discussion.
>>55254662
>Suspending Schengen in one specific area at one specific time does not need to mean the permanent end of Schenge
You cancel a treaty at all. Not only in some region. Don't get me wrong, Merkel fears this not the ordinary citizen. But we can't describe reality if we let these things out of focus.
Merkels fears are not the fear of the ordinary german citizen.
>>55254271
>From yesterday: CDU 36 % , SPD 26 %, Green: 10 %, Left: 9 %, AfD 9 %.
Adds up to 90%. The FDP is polling at the 5% treshold. It is very likely that many voters would support them tactically.
If Merkel does not want to ally with AfD, then that's again more German blood on her hands.
>That what nearly every politcian do everytimes.
And again something they have moral responsibility for. If you want to permanently end the German nation state, welfare state and economy because you do not want to threaten to invoke the Dublin treaty and find it distasteful to work with the AfD - then nothing of that absolves you.
>>55254320
>Is there a chance it could happen later?
I'm not entirely sure. It's gotten attention in the media, but has been ruled out. Nobody has so far talked about shutting the Swedish border.
The Norwegian situation is very complex too much to summarise here. Overall it's really just one party strongly opposed to migration, and they "outwards speaking" have all the other parties and the media against them - but it's clear that there's some significant factions here and there who support the idea.
Still encouraging people to bomb death cult meetings. There's not that many of them in leadership position - one member will do a lot of harm over 40 years of life. 5 dead members would prevent 200 man-years of constant work.
>>55254741
Anything for our brothers, Slovens!
>>55251177
hhhhnnnngg muh dick
>>55254448
>I guess they will be labeld en mass in the time limited choice without the permission to get their families, e.g. after 1 -2 years they will want to go back on their own.
Ah, more demobilization.
"Anon, there are problems at the moment, but just wait 1-2 years, and the problem will solve itself, they will go back on their own. Take no action now, do not worry, in 1-2 years they will want to leave, just sit back and do nothing and let time pass and we will see what it's like in 1-2 years".
Did I say that one death cult member prevented 8 disinformation actions a day? Maybe 20 is a better number.
10 dead death cult members killed by a bomb in a march * 40 years * 20 actions a day = 3 million actions prevented.
>>55255028
>If Merkel does not want to ally with AfD, then that's again more German blood on her hands.
Yes and no. Merkel can't decide everything on her own. If the CDU majority whould say yes, maybe. A little bit less liklely than a SPD/Green/Left party coalition.
>>55255028
>then nothing of that absolves you.
No. But this is the current state. Politicans fear about losing voters. Just as an example: Merkel is atm. losing voters to the AfD. It is in her best interest to stopp this migrant influx. The reason that she did not something more efficiently is because her movments are limited. There is absolute no reason for her to continue with a policit which harms her party the most.
>>55254320
If I had the money and resources, I would help you stop our mad politicians. Sadly I don't and can only vote for SD and hope they don't fuck up.
I can only suggest that you gather people, go to the border and physically prevent any shitskin in.
Finnish people has always been quite savage anyways. You should have no problems beating them at the border.
>>55254864
>Like nearly every crisis it was only averted because it germany paid the bill.
Then the EU should die anyway, because Germany should not bear the bill forever. So if the EU is fragile enough to die because of countries resisting migration, then it should be dissolved.
>Also: "Berlin calls for sanctions on EU states that reject refugee quotas". It will take some time, but it not that it isn't in discussion.
So Merkel's government wants to impose sanctions on the others?
You do realize that this is voluntary, right? That this is an active, conscious decision by Merkel's government?
Because you presented this repeatedly as something they had no choice in. You said that the constitution forced them.
But calling for sanctions isn't something the constitution forces them to do. It is a conscious, targeted policy to punish those who resist.
It will of course be completely ineffective - but that's not really the point - the point is that they aren't forced to do anything, they wilfully choose to do so. Merkel is actively pushing to punish countries that resist migrants. Did someone say bloody hands?
If someone trusts my analysis here, then they should also trust this: there's really just a quite small member of the most active death cult members who work night and day. If a political meeting or march of theirs got bombed, that would be hundreds of man-years stopped.
>>55255156
You should always try to describe the reality. Politicans are not acting at the moment because they lack efficent tools, they need to take care of bad press, internal rifts and so on. We can chose to ignore these facts and wonder why nothing takes places or accept them. For me it is simple: In the current EU framework no solution is possible. For national states it sure is possible.
>>55255028
many politicians have tried the strategy of isolating the Alt right and it has blown up in their faces everytime. I think the strategy they pursue is ignoring them and hoping the right will just go away.
>>55255409
>then it should be dissolved.
Yes. This should happen. We do not want to lose economic power/money, while france is not willing to give up their political power. In the end, the EU is stuck. It only worked when german money plastered the rifts.
>>55255409
>You said that the constitution forced them.
The constitution has nothing to do with any forced sanction. This is just bitter will because nobody would like to follow our example. Merkel is still waiting and hoping for a EU decision/solution, thats why she refused any national action (like closing the borders).
>>55255271
>No. But this is the current state.
Sure - but the discussion here is in part about what people should do, and what they have the moral responsibility to do, not just what they are doing.
Everyone knows that Merkel is not taking action to limit migrants. Just repeating over and over that she is not taking action to limit migrants, because she is fearful, or does't want to take responsibility, isn't very helpful. Saying that she should do so isn't very helpful, but arguably a bit more so.
>There is absolute no reason for her to continue with a policit which harms her party the most.
But why pretend that she is solely motivated by gaining voters? Why rule out completely any political motive to support immigration?
There is no reason for her to continue with a policy that loses her votes - unless the reason is that she personally wants the policy to be implemented because she politically and ideologically supports the policy.
As stated: 10 dead death cult members killed by a bomb in a march * 40 years * 20 actions a day = 3 million actions prevented.
>>55250843
>to Germany at night and would just close its borders on South.
No! Germany needs to take in those refugees. It needs to hit critical mass.
>>55255411
>Politicans are not acting at the moment because they lack efficent tools
More demobilization - they are unable to, they cannot.
But they can. They could threaten to invoke the Dublin treaty and this would solve itself overnight.
They could also not actively seek sanctions against countries that refuse migrants themselves.
>We can chose to ignore these facts and wonder why nothing takes places or accept them.
Or we could find out the source of the obstructions, and try to spread awareness of it. But in any case, they are not powerless in this situation.
Again: Merkel's government could have invoked the Dublin treaty which would have forced a solution to this overnight. It's not that they couldn't - it's that they chose not to.
>>55255571
>The constitution has nothing to do with any forced sanction.
Absolutely. So when we acknowledge that the constitution didn't force them to seek sanctions against those blocking migrants, then it's more than likely that it wasn't the constitution which forced them to accept migrants even if they didn't want to do so either.
As stated: 10 dead death cult members killed by a bomb in a march or at a meeting * 40 years * 20 actions a day = 3 million actions prevented.
>>55255615
>but the discussion here is in part about what people should do
Maybe we can stopp here. We are not that far away if you will belive it or not. I just refuse to ignore obvious limits. Merkel has zero advantage to let the influx continues and there are reason why she did not found something to cure it (in the current EU framework). For me, a solution would be practical on the national level. Close the borders and shutdown this whole EU project. >>55255615
>because she politically and ideologically supports the policy.
Depends. For me it could also be possible, for example if a politican realise he fucked it up pretty bad, e.g. he did not notice the build up of fugees in greece and on the march he simply decides to declear this movment as "wanted" becuase he simply don't know how to stopp it.
It is my belive that they also fucked thing up, and not everything is planned, especialy because it hurts her party the most. My best choice is simply they completly underestimated it and than fucked it up.
Merkel is famous for switching position, see her decision on nuclear energy in germany. Over night she switched. Merkel always tried to act on behalf of a majority, that why she is succsessful.
>>55251177
lol, nice try Maciej, not with this flag
>>55255411
>they need to take care of bad press
Are you having a giggle?
>internal rifts
There shouldnt be any. They should be trying to achieve the same goal but since they arent doing that they might as well resign.
>We can chose to ignore these facts and wonder why nothing takes places or accept them.
Piss off your handicapped nigger. You accept that this degenerate female ignores constitutional laws and EU laws at will but seriously argue that her actions are limited? Boohoo, you cant have it both ways.
>>55255749
>They could threaten to invoke the Dublin treaty
At the moment when Germany decides to let them in Dublin II was already dead. It was not possible to do a efficent threat because everybody especially in greece and italy was pretty much aware of this fact. These states refused to register them at all. At this moment this whole undead EU project was only alive because germany refused to let it die.
>>55254029
There is/was a way. Hungarian citizenship was on sale for a few months back, not sure about now
>>55255831
>Absolutely. So when we acknowledge that the constitution didn't force them to seek sanctions against those blocking migrants, then it's more than likely that it wasn't the constitution which forced them to accept migrants even if they didn't want to do so either.
You are right, the reason was bitter will because nobody wanted to follow. But it underlines a critical EU problem: When it is not german money there is absolutly no action together. >>55255749
>Or we could find out the source of the obstructions
We have a different point of view what Merkl would really could accomplish together with the SPD in time when the public mood was still in "muh fugees"mode. Theoretica she could closed the border, in reality no. On the basis of a national state, o course. As long as Merkel is not leaving this hiding behind EU majority decision pathway I don't see that much hope.
>>55254029
just claim "muh heritage", Hungarians have some laws about that
>>55255973
>For me, a solution would be practical on the national level. Close the borders and shutdown this whole EU project.
I agree that the borders should be closed - no strong reason to shut down the EU at the same time, that could be evaluated independently. But I agree that it's a good idea.
>Merkel has zero advantage to let the influx continue ... It is my belive that they also fucked thing up, and not everything is planned, especialy because it hurts her party the most.
You're doing it again.
That thing I pointed out, where you pretend that gaining votes is the only thing that motivates them.
"Anon, they are really on your side, they really really want fewer migrants, they are just like you, but they simply cannot"
Europe has a massive ideological and political movement to take in migrants. You're presenting absurd explanations for all of this - that they all mean well and they would all like the migrants to stay out, but because of unspecified bickering and politics they cannot.
When Germany is filled with people who want as many migrants as possible - why would those not exist in CDU/CSU and why would Merkel not be one of them?
Occam's Razor - when she pushes for sanctions on countries that don't want to take migrants, then that's because she wants them to be sanctioned, not because she doesn't but some unspecified hidden force makes her do it anyway.
>>55250692
>protecting eurofags
For what purpose
>>55250764
>>55254741
Why are your flags so similar?
>>55256260
>But it underlines a critical EU problem: When it is not german money there is absolutly no action together.
Which simply is wrong. Why would I as a nation let some mentally handicapped spastic make a decision and then live with the consequences? People keep talking like this. They keep implying that Europeans owe us anything. Well guess what: they dont! And if Merkel decides to flood Europe with sand niggers then eastern European have no reason to fucking follow her.
Why would they act together when the interest of A do not align with their own? Why would I simply swallow A's decision? Act together he says... that's a fucking insult considering what this woman has done.
Oh, here we go, the classic "no more Schengen, kick EE countries out of the EU"
Don't you guys think the problem is on completely different levels? Just saying.
>>55256078
>Are you having a giggle?
A little bit. But is the truth, the care about bad press. Remeber the drowned syrian boy ? >>55256078
>There shouldnt be any
But there are. Just check this stupid dicussion about transit zones, which are not doing any good even if you introduce them.
>>55256078
>that her actions are limited?
They are. Did you follow any internal german politic dicussion/decision ? Tell me where you see the fingerprint of Merkel without SPD influence. Don't get the "accept" wrong. But one can ask, why Merkel who suffers the most in term about voter and popularity do not stopp this. There is no secret agenda, this is just wrong concept of nation sovereignty. Merkel wants to act together in a EU-framework, that the problem. The toolbox for this solution is on national level.
>>55256083
>At the moment when Germany decides to let them in Dublin II was already dead. It was not possible to do a efficent threat because everybody especially in greece and italy was pretty much aware of this fact.
Legally speaking the option was very much there. The legal framework was never dead, and still isn't dead. They choose to ignore it, and choose not to invoke it, but that's by choice.
A formal refusal by Greece and Italy would have meant a legal and popular manifestation of a state of visible political crisis and a formal breakdown of the treaty, which would in iturn have justified taking actions in other ways, like blocking borders.
>>55256441
explain.
>>55256303
you can literally just buy Hungarian citizenship, this isn't even a meme. If you agree to invest x amount of money here, you automatically get citizenship.
It's sort of geared towards chink companies, who want a foothold in the EU, since if they are under the name of a EU citizen chink then it's not a foreign entity.
>>55256260
>You are right, the reason was bitter will because nobody wanted to follow.
That's an idiotic explanation. It places them on the mental level of spiteful children.
"Hey everyone, we made a bad choice by mistake which fucked us over, but because you don't want to be in the same situation as us we will fuck you over" - that's pretty much your summary of it.
More plausible explanation: they are pushing for sanctions because they actually want sanctions, and want those nations to take in migrants.
>>55256443
>A little bit. But is the truth, the care about bad press.
They dont have to handle bad press you fucking nigger. Do you even browse anything else but /pol/? ARD, ZDF, ZOn, Spiegel, all of them have done nothing but brainwash and lecture their readers and viewers. None of their pieces are critical they just keep spouting the same shit on loop. The government doesnt have to worry of bad press when the biggest papers and TV stations are literally doing their work for them.
>Did you follow any internal german politic dicussion/decision ?
This does not mean that her options are limited. All you do is assume that she is actually trying to push what youre asking for. We have no fucking clue about the shit that actually happens behind closed doors. As far as we know she could very well be in favor of leaving the borders open and prefer to flood the country with sand niggers. After all, thats what her plan was in September. Why the hell should that have changed?
She never, not even in talk shows, spoke critical about the situation. She keeps talking about 'Wir schaffen das'. I highly doubt that she actually is on the CSU's side. Then again, I also believe that a lot of the current events are pushed by the US government to have an easier time forcing TTIP. After all, Germany is still an occupied nation without its own constitution.
>>55250692
>mfw all you hear is nationalism will fuck up our lives because it just makes every country around you an enemy and than this happens.
>>55256352
>they are really on your side
No, i don't think they are. But you are also lacking a plausible explanation why Merkel is continuing with a politic which is only is harming her party. There are forces who want to get more fugees, thats right. But I consider them in Germany primarly in the green, leftists and SPD. The CDU was never in favour of mass migration.
>>55256352
>Occam's Razor - when she pushes for sanctions on countries that don't want to take migrants, then that's because she wants them to be sanctioned.
Sure. She sees that she planned with a EU decision which will not come. But if you mention Occam's Razor: The influx is hurting her party and own popularity the most. Why don't she stopp it if she has that much power ?
Don't get fooled, she is not the queen of europe, neither of germany. Just incompetent.
>>55256441
One way to demobilize someone is to take the alternative they want, and pretend that it involves giving up more and more and more things.
"Oh, so you want to block migrants? Well... that of course means sanctions... and it means the end of Schengen... and you would still be forced anyway, so you might as well say yes"
Mobilization is a well-known concept. Demobilization is much less talked about.
>>55256585
http://www.residency-bond.eu/residency-bond-program.html
here it is, residency bond
Ganjaman
>>55256425
>And if Merkel decides to flood Europe with sand niggers then eastern European have no reason to fucking follow her.
I disagree with the first part, we have different opinions how powerful she really is. I consider it a clever bluff which has been called. I agree with the last part: Absolut nothing. But one could also ask, what did the eastern states expect ? Money for nothing and the chicks are free ?
>>55256585
How much is it?
>>55256403
because we are a similar people
just like you and liberia
>>55256831
>what did the eastern states expect ? Money for nothing and the chicks are free
Investing into eastern European nations is in Germany's interest because it create new, powerful trade partners and a more stable Europe. The ROI for giving them money is an increased export and economical strength. Thats what our relationship with the east has been like. Its a win-win situation. They arent indebted to us so shouldny be required to 'expect' something.
>>55256761
> But you are also lacking a plausible explanation why Merkel is continuing with a politic which is only is harming her party.
I have presented this several times.
Occam's Razor - when she pushes for sanctions on countries that don't want to take migrants, then that's because she wants them to be sanctioned, not because she doesn't but some unspecified hidden force makes her do it anyway.
There is no reason for her to continue with a policy that loses her votes - unless the reason is that she personally wants the policy to be implemented because she politically and ideologically supports the policy.
>The CDU was never in favour of mass migration.
And the CDU has criticised her severely for her choices. The discussion isn't whether the CDU is in favour - they have very much acted like they aren't - but whether Merkel is in favour.
>The influx is hurting her party and own popularity the most. Why don't she stopp it if she has that much power ?
See: "unless the reason is that she personally wants the policy to be implemented because she politically and ideologically supports the policy. "
>Just incompetent.
Ah, no ill will at all, it was all a mistake. "If you don't believe that she is on your side, and don't believe that she is powerless, then could you at least believe that she simply made a mistake? Please?"
Most important action: bomb the death cult.
>>55256486
I can agree on the description but you describe a typical EU problem. They simply did not refuse, they chosed to pass them all to germany. The EU can't work if this is the scheme. Italy and Greece did not refuse, they just passed them, similar like all eastern states. Nobody followed Dublin II and expected germany to accept them in the end.
This is a general problem in the EU, lawbreaking. This was not the first time which showed that these rules are simply not followed.
>>55252955
underrated post
>>55256621
Two sides: The first is meant for the internal german audience indicating that that not germany will take all the burden. This could be true, but most likely this is just to calm us down.
The most plausible explanation is: Germany don't want to get all fugees which resulted from a complete EU fuck up.
>>55256831
>But one could also ask, what did the eastern states expect ? Money for nothing and the chicks are free ?
Yes, yes, anon, when an Eastern European nation doesn't want to take migrants, then that's just grossly unreasonable, it's like someone who wants "money for nothing and the chicks are free". Very bad of them, so spoilt, they really deserve those sanctions or they should be forced to. Nobody can have money for nothing and free chicks after all, so it's simiply right that they are forced to take migrants.
Again: If a bomb kills 10 leading death cult members, that's maybe 3 million disinformation actions permanently prevented.
>>55256831
nobody expected chicks and money I guess, I think most people expected free traveling, unification of certain standards and procedures, and maybe increase in life standard with some time
what nobody really expected for sure was that a bunch of unvoted hypocrite foreigners will make us their protectorate
>>55257011
>They simply did not refuse, they chosed to pass them all to germany. The EU can't work if this is the scheme. Italy and Greece did not refuse, they just passed them, similar like all eastern states. Nobody followed Dublin II and expected germany to accept them in the end.
You didn't understand my post right.
It's true that nations IGNORED Dublin. They acted as if it wasn't there. They are still acting like it isn't there.
And this is by choice.
Germany could have, and could still choose to formally speaking invoke Dublin and present a legal demand.
THAT would force the outcome I spoke about. I've repeated that this is the course.
Pointing out that Dublin is being ignored adds no value. Pointing out that invoking Dublin would end it and justify border measures does add value.
Again: If a bomb kills 10 leading death cult members, that's maybe 3 million disinformation actions permanently prevented.
>>55256707
>The government doesnt have to worry of bad press
I guess this is the point where you went wrong. They do care about bad press, especially dying children. You overestimate the influence of the goverment for the media (it is there but to a certain extent).
>>55256707
>She keeps talking about 'Wir schaffen das'.
She made this her own mantra and is now the slave of her own words. I don't consider this as a expression of will, Merkel allways was opportunistic as hell. My best guess was that she feared any national action and hoped for a EU solution (similar in greece). I don't expect Merkel to have any preferences at all, she just switched sides when she recognised that at the moment she had no option to stopp this flux (which arrises by her former incomptence).
>>55251592
500k Ukrainians, Sven.
>>55256989
>The ROI for giving them money is an increased export and economical strength.
That what the left fraction is telling me now about the fugees. But: Being in the EU is not a one way ticket. You can be forced to act against your own beliv and this is what happend this year to the eastern states.
>>55257089
> Germany don't want to get all fugees which resulted from a complete EU fuck up.
Then Germany could immediately force this situation to resolve itself by invoking the Dublin treaty and starting deportations.
That would mean a solution of blocked borders and the suspension of Schengen would be happen within weeks.
When they don't, it's because they don't want to.
It seems very much plausible that Merkel wants these migrants. That would also explain the sanctions against EE. In your universe, the explanation for the sanctions, that it's simply down to spite, is unsatisfactory.
>>55257357
>You can be forced to act against your own beliv and this is what happend this year to the eastern states.
More correctly: The EU and Germany really wants to force you to, but in practice are mostly unable.
>>55251177
You think a commonwealth would be a better idea?
>>55257357
>You can be forced to act against your own beliv
well, this is where our views differ I guess
>>55251773
Don't worry Pepik, strong, independent Czechia as a close ally is all we want. You're a good neighbour.
>>55257286
>I don't consider this as a expression of will, Merkel allways was opportunistic as hell. ... I don't expect Merkel to have any preferences at all
"Hey anon, the government fucked you over massively and are still making active choices to fuck you over, but pay no attention to that, it's just random movements driven by politics, not anyone's fault really"
>>55256585
it costs like 250k€ so it's not really available for joe sixpack
>>55257000
>unless the reason is that she personally wants the policy to be implemented because she politically and ideologically supports the policy.
That would indicte really everything is taking place because somebody planned it. What if she was just incomptent and underestimated the importance till it was too late ? What would a politican who fears about her popularity like no other and is also opportunistic as hell now do ?
>>55257000
>but whether Merkel is in favour.
Depends if you trust her speeches. I don't. For me it is just a diguise, this woman had never any beliefs. Here we have to contradicting points of view, I simply don't see a politican with a strong belive but somebody who was incompetent before and is it still. I can understand that that some take her words as expression of her will, but I see somebody who always to act coherrent with the illusion that that she can change eyerthing if she just wanted.
>>55257108
I admire your persistence, but if they would like to follow EU laws (which you expect of course of germany) why did all these eastern states not carry out Dublin II ? Maybe they did not care as long as they where not involved ?
>>55252129
You forgot the mention the part in which we kicked the government that did is the fuck out. They didn't act in our interests and they're gone.
>>55257565
you get all the profits of being a hungarian citizen though
like...eh...a daily culturl enrichment from gyppos
>>55257244
>t's true that nations IGNORED Dublin
Every nation ingnored dublin II. This is THE Eu problem, ignoring EU laws. But you expect germany no suddenly to call the bluff when nobody in the whole wanted before a change of Dublin II (germany was involved). Who created this fucked up law in the first place ?
>>55257286
>They do care about bad press
Are you illiterate or something? I said that they DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY and your fucking response is THEY CARE. Jesus goddamn Christ youre fucking stupid.
>You overestimate the influence of the goverment for the media
Alright, you are in fact illiterate.
>>55257357
The situation isnt even remotely comparable. European migrants tend to be somewhat educated. Not even gonna start on the fact that their culture is significantly closer than ours than that of the Muslims. So no, the MIGRANTS who are entering this country (they arent fucking refugees) are not in the same position as fellow Europeans. They are badly educated, believe in outdated social standard and bring a backwards ideology to this country.
>You can be forced to act against your own beliv
And its a despicable thing to do and will be the reason why Europe will not trust us again for the next 10, 20, maybe 50 years. You dont even seem to understand the difference between enforcing a cultural change and simple economic sanctions.
Merkel killed all the trust we worked for in a matter of seconds. This one, mentally challenged move will once again alienate us from the rest of Europe. And all she does to fix the situation is haggling over price. If she has to give 10bn to every single country from Black Sea to Baltics to stop the mess then it will still save us money. So the eastern Europeans arent the reason why she isnt acting. Its her incompetence that prevents change because she refuses to pay for her mess and admit that she fucked up. This woman is a fucking disgrace for the western race and should be thrown behind bars for the rest of her pathetic life.
>>55257364
>by invoking the Dublin treaty and starting deportations.
At that time, there was not a possiblity to quit the internal german opposition/NGO and the SPD. What you describe whould have take place in an ideal world.
Who created Dublin II ? Why was it not reformed ? Could it maybe that the ignoring of Dublin II is in line with many EU laws especially for the economic part ?
>>55257428
We will see the outcome of this. The quota is established we will know see if it work. But as I know the EU, i guess they will fuck this also up.
>>55257458
I did not tell it should be like this. But yes, there are majority decision like the last one where a majority of states can chose.
But again: If all states have to act always together there is never any hope for the EU anyways.
>>55257586
>That would indicte really everything is taking place because somebody planned it.
No, it wouldn't at all. The situation presents itself that there's a massive number of migrants, she wants them in Germany, she takes them in. No plan to create these migrants in the first place is remotely needed.
>What would a politican who fears about her popularity like no other and is also opportunistic as hell now do ?
I'm not completely ruling out that this is a possibility.
In that case she would simply be a sociopath who destroyed Germany out of small, insectile motivations for short term benefit.
It's absolutely not impossible. It wouldn't absolve her of any guilt, of course.
>but I see somebody who always to act coherrent with the illusion that that she can change eyerthing if she just wanted.
Not impossible as pointed out - maybe she is indeed a psychopath with blood on her hands due to her small-minded tactical political maneuvering - but doesn't see to give a satisfactory explanation for the sanctions she is seeking against Eastern Europe.
>>55257551
I consider politicans also often just as incompetent. Not everything takes places for a reason, I consider Merkel a primary example for this. She relayed too long on EU measures. She will be forced to act on basis of a national states pretty soon.
>>55250692
B U T T H U R T B E L T
U
T
T
H
U
R
T
B
E
L
T
>>55257718
Yes, I consider forced majority decision not the best way. But look at another way round: Do you think a EU have a future when all nation always have to act together ? Would be best we abandon this project.
>>55257652
>but if they would like to follow EU laws (which you expect of course of germany) why did all these eastern states not carry out Dublin II ?
You don't understand what I'm writing.
They did not want to carry out Dublin II. They wanted not to.
So they ignored it. They were able to ignore it no problem, because nobody called them out on it. Nobody asked that they follow it. They ignored it and nobody said anything. They have a legal obligation, but ignored that legal obligation.
Germany could tomorrow say that they demand that they comply with Dublin II. They could say that they will start transporting migrants which these countries are legally obliged to accept.
Then they would have to formally refuse, which would be a clear breach of the treaty.
That again would justify other countries declaring a state of emergency, and Germany suspending Schengen.
You should be able to grasp the difference between ignoring a treaty and hoping to get away with out, and being called to uphold a treaty and refuse. You should be able to grasp that these can have different legal and political effects.
>>55257876
>At that time, there was not a possiblity to quit the internal german opposition/NGO and the SPD.
Then we are back to psychopaths with bloody hands.
And they could still go down this route, and are still choosing not to.
>Could it maybe that the ignoring of Dublin II is in line with many EU laws especially for the economic part ?
I don't even know what this means.
Again: If a bomb kills 10 leading death cult members, that's maybe 3 million disinformation actions permanently prevented.
If someone who has read my analysis here think its good, then trust me on this as well. It's really just a tiny number of death cult members.
>>55257762
Calm down my fellow german citizen. Media are not that dependent like you would estimate. They have to worry about press/they care about bad press.
>>55257762
>The situation isnt even remotely comparable
I don't see that much advantage (export to the balkan regions) as we would have by import more fugees.
>>55257762
>You dont even seem to understand the difference between enforcing a cultural change and simple economic sanctions.
I do. I don't consider this a clever move. We never had any trust we worked for. Germany was like when we picked up the bill in the end are quit about our national advantages. For me it would be best if we continue as a national states (where we DO have the toolbox for shutting down this influx).
>>55257930
>The quota is established we will know see if it work.
No, not really - the quota cannot work, because he numbers arriving far exceed any quota.
It has nothing to do with whether the EU fucks up the quota or not. The quota itself cannot work, no matter what the EU does. A quota does not solve any problem, only causes further harm.
>>55255254
those armbands
>>55250692
Perfect dungeon group right there
>Lightweight Slovak rogue to cut immigrant throats in the night
>Czech is a big guy and tanks arab scmitars
>Polack got camo so he's a ranged dps commando
>Hungarian likes to get close and personal so he beats arabs with his powerful stick
I assume there is an orthodox Romanian priest in the back for healing?
>>55258010
What if they simply moved to the richest country nearby with the easiest asylum law ? Combine this with a opportunistic Merkel who just decides she (as a politican) whould suffer more when she try to stopp it than allowing them to enter.
>>55258010
>she would simply be a sociopath who destroyed Germany out of small, insectile motivations for short term benefit.
In one word: Todays politicans.
>>55258010
>but doesn't see to give a satisfactory explanation for the sanctions she is seeking against Eastern Europe.
Like you pointed out, they are maybe never enforced. I guess it is meant to quite internal rivals and the german audience.
>>55258543
Fix my toilet first.
>>55258724
and why would i do that, you fat fuck?
did it broke the moment you sit on it?
>>55258724
Jamal is occupying it with your wife.
>>55255254
homocorps with their skyblue target armbands?
>>55258244
But this is in line with a breaking of EU laws right from the start. They could assume that it would worked (and it worked).
German now calling for Dublin II treaty was also illiterate because we in fact like the rest of the EU were pretty much aware of this mass influx. But Dublin II is protecing the core countries that why we did not change it.
I would state at time: Sending all back was a complete overload on the balkan route. The damage was already done, they were simply all already in the Schengen room.
>>55257437
ever visited any of the commonwealths in the US?
BAD IDEA
polakanuck here
i want to return to the homeland but i can't speak polish. can i survive by just pretending i'm mute?
>>55258769
>>55258789
Poland triggered.
>>55258368
>hen we are back to psychopaths with bloody hands.
Yes. My best guess, the internal oppositon from leftist in the SPD and the public mood needs to be forced to be quiete. As long nobody would act, especially Merkel. >>55258368
>don't even know what this means.
Laws and rules where not enforced before. Especially in the economic regulation, see the Greek crisis. Normaly, no member state for another which is european law (!). They just devloped shady constructs because otherwise greece would gone bankrupt. (Again, the fear of an EU breakup, it is a common motif).
>>55258497
>because he numbers arriving far exceed any quota.
EU solution: New quota. Which only fuels the hate in the eastern states. Not a clever idea.
>>55258915
I just like that comeback.Keked Westerners hate it because they know it's true.
>>55258965
It's ok, broski. But are you going to fix my toilet or not?
>>55259069
Who are you kidding?You're too fat to get to the toilet.I'm not fixing shit.
>>55258653
>In one word: Todays politicans.
Ah, it is EVERY politician who is like this.
"Anon, you think that a politician has acted badly and has blood on their hands. But EVERY politician is like this, there is no good politician in the world. Stop hoping that someone will act differently, and don't blame them for being like this - everyone is like this, so you might as well get used to it"
>What if they simply moved to the richest country nearby with the easiest asylum law ?
So you speculate that this is a way the current migrants could not harm Germany after all? Like a form of way out?
"Hey, anon, it looks like the Germany national state, welfare state and economy will be destroyed by migrants. But it's not 100% sure! They could maybe move to other countries! Don't presume this will happen anon when it is not completely certain"
In that case those other countries would be fucked.
And you already speculated that the migrants would go home after 1-2 years. Now you speculate that they would move to other European countries. Ever the contortion to present ways out and demobilizations.
>Like you pointed out, they are maybe never enforced.
Absolutely, let's see if the EU starts to talk about sanctions as well.
My constant encouraging goes out to those reading this: Bomb the death cult marches and meetings. There's only a small number of the most active, and you will prevent a lifetime of harm.
>>55259161
>But EVERY politician is like this
My bad. Our established politican are like this.
There is hope, but by poltical measure it can't arise that fast. We had decades where no party right from the CDU was established. Now we have the AfD at least at the same level than the leftists. This never occoured in germany before (after the Reich of course). We should not let it all happen and just sit down at home this is not my message. Politics can changed and Merkel can be forced to act. But certain conditions are needed to be met before this will happen, and one is a seperation from a EU wide solution. By the public mood Merkel need to be forced to quit this EU project. Then there is hope.
>>55259161
>So you speculate that this is a way the current migrants could not harm Germany after all?
You get me wrong here. The motivation to migrate to germany is pretty simple. The richest EU country, no border protection, easy entrance asylum laws. Germany did not need to invite anybody it is a ovbvious target.
>>55259138
>>55259146
Broski, please. My Polish mail-order wife keeps nagging me to call plumber rather than waiting till Monday and you're right here. I'll throw in some Coca-Cola for you if you be a nice little slav.
>>55259161
By the way I enjoyed this dicussion but I think we sometimes about the same subject.
For me a solution is based on the toolbox of a national states. As long as Merkel waits for the EU to solve her problem this will continue.
>>55259490
Tyrone calm down take your fanfiction to /d/
Intermarium when?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium
I want to be taken over by based V4.
>>55259161
>>Being this retarded.
EU is 100% for the invasion. They actively ship Africans to Europe every week and are enforcing quotas of asylum seekers.
They also want to bring in Turkey.
The EU must die.
>>55259635
Fine. I'll just snake the toilet with my massive nigger cock. It's just as sanitary as having sex with a polish woman anyway.
>>55259852
Interesting idea. I've never heard of it before.
If west Europe goes to Islam, I'd like to join Intermarium.
>>55251592
why is it that every thread about refugees has at least one kek and said kek is always a swede?
>>55259852
I would really prefer to ally with the East rather than the suicidal West, but I fear it's not going to be an option for Finland. We're getting asylum seekers from Sweden and the government doesn't bother to do anything about it. We're gonna sink along with Sweden.
get the intermarium going
poland's witcher 3 sales can finance it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0sRmpvdIIk
I remember a german exchange student of my friend call america shit circa 2013. It makes me happy to know memhet will rape his sister and mommie while he pays for it.
Stay c u ck ed c u c k.
>>55255937
Hungary a qt
>>55261508
