There has to be some sort of God who created the universe , surely the Universe can't be created out of nothing .
Then where did god come from? Surely he can't have been created out of nothing.
Energy can be produced by itself, my young scholar
>there's god, but it didn't send a prophet
>all prophets were schizophrenic
Here you go, senpai.
>>55202177
>what happened before time
go find the mistake in the question
>>55202245
So fucking american of you.
The guy is asking something else.
>>55202177
even if we took the stance that the universe was created by a "god" what makes you think it's anything even remotely close of the idea of a god that's in any religion wrote by human hands?
>>55202177
>how can mirrors be real if our eyes arent real
this thread
>>55202177
Are there greater powers at work in the universe? Almost certainly.
Are they the magic skydaddies western religions make them out to be? Absolutely not
>>55202220
He came from me bangin ur mum to hard
>>55202297
No question mark
>>55202383
He didn't imply that. But valid point.
>>55202177
Then who created the creator?
>>55202440
/thread
>>55202320
He's asking how the universe can be created out of nothing and I answered his question by saying the universe can create itself because it's made of energy.
Relax Ling Ling
>>55202177
Even if there was, he/she/it is no longer affecting the universe, otherwise we'd have seen evidence of it.
And no, statistically improbable events happening doesn't count.
From the beginning of times religion has been used to justify unexplained events.
Thunder, storms, plague, flood, you name them. Most of them has been explained by now, the creation of the universe is the only thing you have left. It won't last forever though, and we'll have to put you on suicide watch when it happens.
TLRD : There's no god
>>55202177
It's been here forever bud. Something cannot come from nothing.
Religious people will laugh at my statement I just made. Think about what you believe for a second and what makes more sense.
Universe is always here changing constantly.
Or
Some bearded wizard in the clouds was here for ever and he creates the universe.
K.i.s.s.
It's like how we create video games and characters.
We create a video game. The video game is the universe. It's the time. Existence. The protagonist and the characters are humans.
Will the protagonist ever go out of character and realise that he's in a video game?
No. Neither will we.
>>55202449
Doesnt make sense. Go back to /B/. If You fucked his mom then that makes him god and the creator of the universe.
>>55202383
No religion in our planet has the grasp of this god , he probably doesn't give a shit on what we do.
>>55202556
He's not talking from a physics aspect. He's talking about how existence itself came to happen. How everything began.
>muh energy
Where and why did energy appear?
>>55202591
K.i.s.s.
Keep it simple stupid
>>55202644
It's always been here forever........
>>55202705
Where is here? is their a border? Can it be infinite large? What kind of magic is at play here. Gotta be a bearded wizard 8n the clouds.
>>55202440
He didn't ask anything about western religions. Well, Ameritard and reading don't exactly mix, eh gringo?
>>55202177
Can you show me nothing?
Is there such a thing as nothing?
>>55202705
Answer my question.
>>55202177
>out of the entire observable universe, there is only one intelligent species, that was created by a dude who looks exactly like (the male version of) us and watches over us while we masturbate, and if you don't believe he exists even though you can't detect him with any of the senses he gave you, he's going to throw your eternal soul into a pit of magma to suffer for all eternity
>but if you do believe he exists even though you can't detect him through the senses he gave you, he will give you a white robe and let you kiss his ass and suck his dick in praise for all eternity instead
>>55202601
if there is a word even in English to describe what such an entity would be, it would be "it".
>>55202850
The answer is one you'll have trouble grasp8ng. The energy never appeared, the energy is all there is. It's always here for infinite.
>>55202932
What caused the energy to exist? What is the reason it exists to begin with?
Define "nothing".
>>55202297
There -was- no "before time." This is one of the fallacies inherent to the idea that the universe ever had a beginning. (There are many logical problems with it, which is why I don't believe in the Big Bang Hypothesis.)
The concept of time is axiomatic; in order to assert that time "began" at some point, like with the beginning of the universe, you must necessarily invoke the concept of time. There is no "before" without time.
If the law of identity applies to everything in the universe, and we have no reason to think otherwise, then time (and the universe in general) necessarily always existed.
>>55203006
Nothing caused it, since there was no such thing as a 'before'.
Time was created when space was created. One does not exist without the other.
>>55203343
>nothing caused it
>>55203343
How was there a "when" if time didn't exist?
>>55202177
It's not created out of nothing you silly dumbass.
>>55202591
>THERE IS NO CREATOR
>proceeds to merely disprove only the abrahamic god.
Jesus fuck, do atheists really believe the only concept of a god is the Abrahamic god? Would there really be any atheists if they were told the Abarhamic god isn't the definition of a "god" or "creator of the universe"?
>>55203596
It's like you only read the image and not what he wrote. He was talking about the idea of a creator in general.
>>55203473
sorry you have a difficultly comprehending the fact that time and space are intrinsically dependent on each other.
>>55203502
How was there a point in time if time didn't exist?
There wasn't.
>>55203343
What created the conditions for the two to exist? Why do these two exist? What created those laws?- for what purpose?
>what is the argument from ignorance
>>55202177
>>55202220
you always have the conundrum of the uncaused cause whichever route you take either the Universe creates itself or God creates himself then creates the Universe.
I think the Universe probably creates itself in a causal loop and thus always exists without beginning or end - at least thats the only way I can get my head round any of it.
>>55203797
But that begs the question- why does it do that?
>>55203762
See
>>55203311
To even state that time had a "beginning" implies a previous state in which time did not exist. But that, itself, implies the passage of time.
>>55203769
>>55203849
We don't know, and so what? Maybe we'll find out at some point.
>>55203859
How does that imply the passage of time?
>>55203721
>he uses the example of "a wizard in the clouds"- a reference to the Abrahamic god
>"he was talking about the idea of a creator in general"
Fucking hell, you atheists really are stuck in a loop. You really can't get your head around the idea that a creator wouldn't necessarily be one from one of the many religions here on Earth?- that it wouldn't really be a humanoid being?-or a being of any sort for that matter?
>>55203939
Doubtful, very doubtful. There will always be something that causes something that causes something ad infinitum, so it's quite irrational to claim a personal conclusion to it as fact.
>>55204128
Because there was a change from one state to another. How does that happen without the passage of time?
beginning, is a word humans created so we have a basic understanding
Every universe starts out its existence in another universe, and comes to be when a blackhole explodes (blackhole is the singularity that precipitates the big bang) so there's infinite universes that have finite amounts of black holes but all of those black holes eventually explode in a big bang, which creates another universe with finite singularities that all eventually become another big bang
You can trust me, I'm a doctor.
>>55204140
I would think of any omnipotent/omniscient creator as a "wizard in the clouds," not just an Abrahamic God.
nothing is created or destroyed, its energy is just transferred
who fucking cares
It's all a game
>>55202177
I don't believe in God, personally, but I decided to start believing in him anyway just because it helps me relax.
>>55204544
>I don't believe in God
>but I decided to start believing in him
>>55204691
Just because it helps me relax. It's like a placebo. Works pretty good. You just have to not think about it too much.
>>55204753
So do you actually believe, or are you just going along with it? There's many things I wish I could believe but I know are not real.
>>55204870
I believe it most of the time, unless I stop to think about it. So I just don't. It's like free will. I don't believe in that either. But I mostly don't think about it and live my life as if I do have free will.
>read these threads
>everyone's a hothead
Apatheism is ace
>>55202220
You can't question where the creator of our universe came from. Having a creator implies that the creator existed outside of the rules of our universe, therefore the rules of Gods universe could be completely different than ours. Time might not even exist in the universe our God exists in
>not enough data
>surely it must be X
this 'logic' would get BTFO in any instance by any rational person, and yet seems to be the default theist position
>>55202859
u forgot to say "white" male version
ˢᵐʰ ᵗᵇʰ ᶠᵃᵐ
>>55205612
In other words, you have to invent things that have never been observed and defy the most fundamental laws of logic in order to believe in a creator.
the part that confuses me is how can something just manifest from nothingness?
I dont believe in god or any creator but I have trouble comprehending that there was nothing.No space,time,matter,then suddenly stuff existed.
>>55205895
you do the same in order to not believe in a creator, but we are all going to be judge in the end of times, when JESUS COME BACK TO RECLAIM HIS REALM, i dunno why he is taking so long but whatever, i can wait
>>55206103
>you do the same in order to not believe in a creator
No we don't
>>55206103
what evidence do you have to support there is a god besides a book written by some old pedo's with a cult like following?
>>55206142
>MUH BIG BANG
>I KNOW IT I WAS THERE
>MUH EVOLUTION
>>55205948
The only way to conceive of the universe without breaking any fundamental laws of logic is as a boundless system that had no beginning and will have no end--that all of the processes we see have always been happening and always will happen.
It makes no sense to think of the universe as having a beginning, because something would have had to cause it--and that cause would have existed, and therefore been part of a pre-existing universe.
See also:
>>55203311
>>55205612
>You can't question where the creator of our universe came from.
Yeah, we can. A universe can be uncaused the exact same way your skydaddy can be uncaused.
>>55206103
Um, no. I violate no laws of logic by not believing in a creator. See:
>>55206212
>>55206181
that's more evidence than what u believe, you believe in what a human being says
>>55206252
logic, your imperfect logic, what the fuck do you know about anything bro
>>55206212
but wouldn't have been simpler for nothing to exist at all in any way?
>>55206317
Logic is the method of non-contradictory identification. It is derived from very basic principles we have observed in reality, and describe the manner in which things exist. Whether you like it or not, the law of identity applies to the universe.
>>55206362
Non-existance isn't something that allows for these questions. Simpler doesn't factor into it.
>>55206274
yes because humans are real living things.
Im pretty sure there's proof we exist...
>>55205612
Why? Because YOU say so? Fuck off.
>>55206362
How would things have progressed from a state of "nothing" to a state of "something?" We have never observed this to happen, so it's actually a bigger leap to say "it all came from nothing." That's the same species of fallacy that creationists commit.
>>55202177
it's made out of light
now fuck off and do something useful
>>55206231
Isn't that as irrational as believing in a creator though?
Both premises rest on a leap of faith so they are both in fact religious viewpoints.
>>55202177
>There has to be...
No
>>55206598
It doesn't assume anything extra, so no. As a matter of fact, I don't think our universe is endless or otherwise, I just know way too little about that sort of thing.
All I'm saying is the argument is moronic and tries to justify one assumption with more assumptions.
>>55206598
No, because we have demonstrable evidence of physical things coming about from without cause.
We have no demonstrable evidence of skydaddy or magic or unicorns.
lrn2physics
>>55202177
Want boring, truthful answer? We don't know, not fully, we don't know everything about our universe either, much less something before it supposedly existed, and all the laws governing, so to speak, began existing. You can believe it has a creator, maybe it does, but truly we should just gradually seek answer to this, as well as other questions about reality we live in.
>>55206720
What things happen without a cause?
>>55202859
When you were a kid if you meditated at night you will see green shit like the Egyptians did. But once you get older it starts to go away. So that is we failed the test.
>>55203849
This question is pointless. I am not edgy, it's just a fact. There was, is, and will be nothing except the reality of the universe. Imagining the reality without the reality is stupid.
>>55202177
>surely the Universe can't be created out of nothing .
Why not?
The universe didn't come "out of nothing".
Why do people keep fucking parroting that?
>It can't be that way!
Why not?
>because it'd hurt my feelings
In some form or way we are all eternal. Either we live on in another life or keep popping back and out of existence playing our same old show again.
>>55202595
Ah so you win arguments by taking an unfalsifiable position, good thinking anon.
>>55207641
>infinite universe
violated thermodynamics, all events have already happened infinite time, a causal chain cannot be infinite (this is a contradiction)
That's why.
>>55202177
>surely the Universe can't be created out of nothing
>There has to be some sort of God who created the universe
doesn't follow
>>55207767
An infinite universe doesn't violate thermodynamics. The second law, for example, -assumes- an isolated system. But an isolated system isn't -required- for the same principles to hold true.
>>55202177
My theory is that the entire milky way is just the breast milk of some cosmic titty monster
There is growing evidence that the universe is actually a computer simulation
>>55202177
Containment board
>>/his/
>>55208334
At least he stopped his insufferable avatarfagging. I guess he couldn't keep getting away with it.
