Each one of these helmets costs $600,000 dollars.
Why come the military don't get flak from both sides for wasting the most money out of all gubmint waste?
600
000
>>55190944
Each helmet doesn't cost that much to manufacture, it's the r&d that costs. And it's fucking worth it, it makes the pilot's job so much easier.
>>55190944
If I remember correctly, these helmets give a projection of cameras and sensors on the exterior of the aircraft, allowing the pilot to "see" through his airplane.
Still, I agree, $.6 m is pretty insane, considering fighter pilots have been doing just fine without these for the past ~100 years.
>>55191090
>it's the r&d that costs.
Which are fully paid for by the government, who then gives the company even more money on top of that to ensure they have profits.
>>55191188
yeah it gives the pilot integrated hud displays and various camera feeds and sensor displays in your face Ironman style
>>55191090
How does it help the pilot? What features does it have?
>>55191289
Built in sunglasses and cream cheese dispenser
>>55190944
Fuck off let the military do whatever it wants with tech
We gotta stay on top and they might come up with some cool shit
>>55191252
brb, dumping my savings account into Lockheed Martin stocks...
>>55191188
>Still, I agree, $.6 m is pretty insane, considering fighter pilots have been doing just fine without these for the past ~100 years.
They haven't actually, with the advent of modern fighter jets, in the heat of action they can succumb to information overload.
The functions of the helmet reduces a lot of the overhead pilots of modern fighter jets face, simplifying a lot of the tasks required.
>>55191289
On the top of my head, it projects the outside of the aircraft around them, augmented reality style, giving them 360 view around them. It shows relevant data, projects radar and targets. They can lock onto targets by just looking at them.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0btzIvlScI
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay6g66FbkmQ
The internet was created by the military. Some of what they make gets into civilian hands so its worth
>>55191367
wow, the sunglasses worth 100k, but the cream cheese dispenser add up like a million
i suddenly want one
>>55190944
it doen't matter how much it costs, if they're use to bring democracy and freedom to durka durkas who sits on oil the gains will be bigger
>>55191367
Worth every penny
Saying it costs 600.000 doesn't mean the 600.000 dissapeared. The 600.000 is spread amongst the manufactures and designers and all the salaries of the people that works on it. It's good for the moneyflow. And the techn they develop is insane.
Gee it's almost like creating prototypes for future tech takes a lot of time and costs a lot of money.
>>55191453
Does it have a "win dogfight" button?
>>55190944
Because it's badass.
>>55191453
OK that's pretty fucking badass
Remember the SpaceX hearings?
ULA (Boeing & Lockheed) have a monopoly on US military satellite launches, and asked like $380 million for each.
SpaceX on the other hand only asked ~$100 million or so.
The hearing was hilarious, even without counting the fact that the Boeing & Lockheed rocket uses a Russian engine, they were completely unable to defend the absurd overpricing they did to the US gov't.
I think SpaceX now has the license to launch US military stuff because it would be insane not to let them at this point. ULA later tried to use a bribed Congressman to try and get NASA to ground their launches for a year but NASA just told them to fuck off.
>>55191684
>Does it have a "win dogfight" button?
While the F35 itself isn't designed to excel in an actual dogfight, the ability to look all around you, not being restricted to just your canopy is fucking golden for dogfights. The tech developed here will benefit other planes too, if we make a manned fighter after this..
>>55191595
What the fuck is that thing?
>>55191188
>these helmets give a projection of cameras and sensors on the exterior of the aircraft, allowing the pilot to "see" through his airplane.
Yeah, they could never buy that kind of tech off the shelf...oh wait.
>>55191367
>cream cheese
>not glorious water based nacho cheese
total waste of money
>>55191799
It's a robot donkey for overweight American G.I.'s who are too out of shape to carry their own gear.
>>55190944
looks pretty ballin' though
>>55191845
B U S T E D K N E E
U
S
T
E
D
K
N
E
E
Well, one huge advantage:
Now they can see the Russian and Chinese fighters shooting them down from behind.
If you lack the maneuverability to ever win a dogfight, you might as well sit back and watch your own death.
>>55191595
wow lose some weight fatty
>>55191946
>dogfights
>oliver 2015
I bet you faggots still think the A-10 is the shit for every purpose
>>55191595
>Please kill me.
>>55191799
Instead of modifying a snowmobile to follow them automatically or whatever, they invented this monstrosity because why not?
>>55191946
>Implying the F-35 will ever be used in real fights
Only cÏ…cks actually bought the piece of shit.
>Netherlands
Oh.
>>55192059
They should make one like that, but as large as a bus.
>>55191845
>thinking reducing loads on soldiers isnt a worthwhile investment
Anything that reduces fatigue increases decision making and combat abilities. At the worst it means quicker reactions if contact is made.
>>55191289
the F-35 has cameras all around so the helmet lets you turn your head and see 'through' the plane 360 degrees
also it has a HUD like video games with all kinds of information
>>55190944
>We spend more money than any other country on military.
Have you thought about how we might just be paying a lot for not much better,??
>>55191800
>hey guys im a retard look at me
>>55192160
More wall building, less chatting, Paco.
>>55192250
I'd rather see exoskeletons.. of course, batteries are still shit, so no can do. Why are batteries still such shit, even with nanotechnology on the rise? Can't we make a trillion plated battery yet?
>>55190944
>Why come the military don't get flak
Because theyre are flying around in undetectable stealth planes, of course.
>>55190944
Ayy lmao
>>55190944
To play devil's advocate for a moment:
The helmet is a force multiplier. If a $600,000 helmet can provide a significant boost to the surviveability of a $100 million fighter plane, then it is a good investment.
I would also like to point out that the F-35 is perfectly capable of operating without the helmet. The natural cockpit visibility in the F-35 is no worse than the F-15 without the helmet. The helmet, if working properly, just augments situational awareness beyond what was previously possible.
The biggest issue with the F-35 is not with the plane itself, but what it will be used for. Once the F-35 enters service, it will become just another tool for overseas interventionism.
>>55191595
>robot carries stuff
>soldiers carry fuel for the robot
wow, nice concept
>>55192250
>Chinese hackers remotely hack your robot donkey and it runs over and gives them all your ammo and brings you back a live grenade
You would really feel like an ass
>>55192160
>dogfights don't happen anymore guise
how many times are we going to go through this? the reason the f-4 was phased out so quickly and replaced was because it didn't have a gun, and literally couldn't dogfight if it wanted to. that's the whole reason it was replaced with the f-15
there is a reason we still designate "f" jets. every time we try to get rid of them we end up realizing they are needed, and we get rekt in the sky if we don't have them.
>>55192329
After you get to unfuck and dekuck yourself along with the low and slow CAS faggots
>>55192329
Exoskeletons are great until they break. If the mule breaks in combat that can be solved later. If something fries the exoskeletons it means someone is stick inside not providing any use to the section or platoon until they can get out.
That said I am not in the military R and D industry. They are probably trying to make that sort of shit combat capable.
>>55190944
Government money spent on keeping worthless people alive is by far the biggest waste. At least that helmet is useful and some, but not all, of the money spent to produce it went to useful people.
>>55192425
>Fuel checkpoints
>robots carry their own fuel
>fuel weigus less than load capacity of robot resulting in net decrease in soldiers load
>any number of other work arounds
Finns are legit mongs.
>>55192425
It also is a noisy bastard that sounds vaguely like you've kicked 100 hornets nets at once, constantly.
>>55192443
>the reason the f-4 was phased out so quickly and replaced was because it didn't have a gun
The F-4 remained in U.S. combat service until 1996 and it is still used by other countries to this day. The lack of an internal cannon was an issue for the F-4, no doubt, but that was only the earliest versions. The F-4E and all models after the F-4E had an internal Vulcan.
>>55190944
>Why come
OP confirmed for illiterate nigger.
>>55191289
It lets you have wallhack so you can see through the plane.
>>55192443
Yes dogfights happen
No they don't happen very often
Yes the F-35 is a capable dogfighter
No it's probably not 100% the dogfighter as other purpose built dogfighting airframes.
But it's not an air-superiority platform, it's a multi-role fighter. And in that it is an excellent airframe. Plus, its stealth capabilities are such that nothing anyone else in the world would be able to see it before the F-35 had a missile lock on them anyway. Making the edge case of an actual dogfight even rarer.
>>55190944
There is no way you could use this plane and have the enemy loose more things than you.
>>55192619
>>Fuel checkpoints
Also you can find powerups for the robot by destroying certain enemy vehicles
>>55190944
Halo helmets soon desu
I'm excite
Throw money
>>55192425
http://www.wired.com/2009/07/military-researchers-develop-corpse-eating-robots/
Our robots will just eat the dead.
>>55192718
>the military doesnt have forward outposts and supply caches. They just march blindly into enemy territory.
Nice, Japan.
They look cool as shit baka senpai
>>55192344
under-rated
>>55191892
looks like an insect
I could use that money better
buy an entire god damn house with it for example
instead of this tech gimmick
absolute waste
The new US embassy in London is said to cost around 1 billion pounds.
>>55191946
>Russian and Chinese fighters shooting them down
>F-35 RCS - 0.001
>Su-35 RCS - 6
>PAK FA RCS - 0.5
I love how retards who know absolutely shit pretend to be experts. F-35 is pretty much alien tech compared to Russian trash.
And you don't even need maneuverability anymore. At all. Look what AIM-9X is capable of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-BwMi19JE
Oh wait, you didn't need maneuverability even 70 years ago. Zeros were two times more maneuverable than Hellcats. Look at their K:D ratio.
>>55192687
>F-35 is a capable dogfighter
It lost from pic related.
Not even trolling.
>>55192867
no crocodile filled moat
i am dissapoint
>>55192444
>>55192687
>low and slow CAS faggots
Yeah, better to go high, fast, and get shot down because your "hyper modern" jet is a piece of shit that can't do a single one of the roles it's meant to do.
The F-16 beats the F-35 in a dogfight. The A-10 beats it in CAS, easy. Whatever it tries, it's complete and utter trash, to the tune of $1.3 trillion. Here's the reply to your inevitable "durr it wasn't meant to dogfight, or fly low", well, what the fuck is the point of it then? If it isn't meant to be able to handle other planes, but only use missiles, then there are far more effective means to do that (like actual fucking missiles), if can't fly low and slow to provide CAS, then again, how is it meant to fullfill that role?
>>55192446
That logic goes for anything, though. Everything is great until it breaks. But I get your point, it's a bigger problem if an exoskeleton breaks. My excitement over them are because they would enable power armors to be built. You could fit plates all over, and be immune to most small arms fire. With modern camera and headset technology (like OPs helmet, or just 3D headsets in general), there's no reason why you couldn't have a completely sealed helmet with no weak points for eyes, either.
>>55192690
Meanwhile, the number of countries using the Rafale can be counted on one hand and you've had 15+ years to sell this plane.
>>55192901
[Citation Needed]
>>55192867
On one hand the design is practical because the double layered windows with air gaps between them prevent all forms of listenting devices from working.
On the other hand it is ugly as fuck though.
>>55192769
>you can leave a robot refueling station in enemy territory and not expect to find a grenade with the pin pulled when you pick up the refueling nozzle
>>55190944
yeah you are right. lets have our pilots pass out while flying a 4 billion dollar jet
>>55192855
That money is used to protect the houses of its country, you goddamn sandnigger.
All that budget in the military is so that the rest of the country can do well without the threat of being fucked by some envious 3rd world country.
All those who complain against the military spending don't have a grasp of how fucked up people are outside of the utopia they are living in.
>>55192855
Yeah, we should invest our money in homes for syrian refugees. Ahmed reinventing the clock will bring us one step closer to space colonization.
>>55192769
That's really only a valid mode of operation if your enemy is a bunch of iron age terrorists.
Once air superiority is evenly contested and the enemy is a modern army on par with your own, your forward bases become super vulnerable.
Call me old fashioned, but I think the military should prepare for war and not for quelling peasant rebellions.
>>55192443
>the reason the f-4 was phased out so quickly and replaced was because it didn't have a gun, and literally couldn't dogfight if it wanted to
And the missile's of the era was complete shit, radar detection ranges were comparably short
That said, i'm a firm believer in the LWF concept, the F16 was and still is awesome. The F35 is a cow, but large production run and tech will make the multirole sacrifices acceptable
>>55192757
>Dear Mrs. Smith
>It is my most sincere wish that you know what happened to your dear son, Private First Class Roger Smith, during the night of July 6th 2021.
>PFC Smith died most nobly, fighting the invading hordes of Mohammedans in pitched battle at the Berlin front. Struck by shrapnel from a grenade, he fell in combat, but not before taking the lives of three brownskins. With his dying breath, he became a martyr for freedom and a glorious shining beacon for those that love freedom.
>Unfortunately, it is with regret that I must deny your request to have your son's body transported home and laid to rest on the family estate. In the heat of battle, one of the platoon's RETARDS (Reciprocating Electronic Tactical Advanced Robotic Deployment System) consumed your son's body to fuel its fusion reactor.
>We hope that you will remain firmly behind the United States in our crusade for freedom.
>Your complimentary Freedom Flag(tm) will be in the mail.
>>55192896
>muh missiles
They can only carry a couple.
When it runs out of air to air missiles it's a sitting duck.
But more to the point: why spend so much money on a "dogfight" helmet when you're going to lose anyways?
Should have spend that on extra speed to GTFO instead of trying to engage close range targets with a fancy helmet.
>>55190944
Materials and technology required reach that level of value, especially considering it's top-of-the-line.
You don't think the iridescence of that visor is just for show, do you?
>>55192901
Everything would you idiot. Biplanes could out-turn and monoplane WW2 fighter too. Mig-29 or Su-30 would also get fucked in a turnfight vs WW1 biplane.
And that matters shit because climb rate and speed are much more important than turning ability.
>>55193023
Look mate I know you find it difficult to understand war because you let the Americans do all your actual defence against Chinese expansion for you but warfare does indeed involve more than setting up a frontline and hoping your eneny decides to march into it.
>>55193109
kekkled
>>55192980
Can modern rockets get a lock on plywood?
>>55193113
>When it runs out of air to air missiles it's a sitting duck.
You do know that unlike video games, real planes aren't expected to shoot down 15 enemy planes per mission including 9 gun kills, right?
>>55193066
You raise a valid point but modern warfare as it stands is a bunch of efficient terrorists. Efficient in the sense the amount spent killing just one is huge. Global cooperation and collective security has replaced warfare between sovereign states. If on the other hand this relationship cracks and the US fights China I believe you will still find supply caches employed just as much as you would have seen in 1800s continental warfare, albeit used for different pueposes.
>>55192956
I don't know what you're talking about. All of your points are wrong. The A-10 is an outdated barge. The F-16 is an acceptable dogfighter but it's a generation behind the F-35 in capabilities.
>CAS can only be done with a slowmoving brick tied to a big gun flying low and slow
opinion discarded. Reason: wrong.
>>55192980
>Meanwhile, the number of countries using the Rafale can be counted on one hand and you've had 15+ years to sell this plane.
Selling planes is all abut bribes.
Quality or cost effectiveness has nothing to do with it.
We bought the F-16 becasue our prince got bribed.
We're buying the F-35 becasue some politicians got bribed.
Other options aren't even being explored, because fuck the taxpayer I got my millions.
>>55193146
>Australia in charge of not realizing who he's arguing with
>>55193258
Also unlike video games not every missile is a guaranteed kill.
>>55193076
This is what a modern F-16 looks like. They have to put so many fuel pods on it just to get good range. That completely kills the plane's innate maneuverability. The F-35 was designed with this in mind. It has a large enough internal fuel capacity that it can operate without all those ridiculous pods and a beefier engine to handle the extra weight. The point is that the F-16 has already been stretched to the limits its (very good) design.
>>55193334
>the F-35 is bad because missiles can go wrong sometimes, just like on literally every other fighter ever made
?????
>>55191800
what is that m8
is a HOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLens
>>55193379
the point i think he was trying to make is when you run out of missiles it's nice to have a gun, and enough speed to GTFO
>>55193334
And unlike video games it's not usually one U.S. plane verses 50 MiGs
That being said, if you're saying the f-35 is a flying cück machine, I agree with you
>>55193312
>Japan in charge of realising he is an on an anonymous image board and flags are the most information we have
The Japanese shitposting is strong tonight. You been drinking to much water bottled from the Fukishima plant m8?
>>55190944
>ayy lmao helmet
>>55193109
TLDR: When the enemy shoots an EMP grenade, F-35 becomes unfliable
>>55191090
>f-35
Yeah they need all the help they can get piloting that piece of shit.
>>55192896
>>Zeros were two times more maneuverable than Hellcats.
They were high energy fighters. Just play war thunder or something. The F-35 isn't very good for high energy fighting, but isn't good at all at turning. It's basically shit at everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Specific_energy
>>55193273
>Reason: wrong
That's no reason if you don't motivate it. The A-10 can fly after it looks like a swiss cheese, while the F-35 needs hours and hours of maintnance if you as much as think of taking it for a spin.
http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/07/disastrous-f-35-vs-f-16-face-off-was-also-a-battle-of-philosophies/
>>55193113
>They can only carry a couple.
That's weird, I'm counting six hard-points plus internal weapons bays.
>>55193600
>TLDR: When the enemy shoots an EMP grenade, everything becomes unfliable, therefore it's better to have a stealth plane in order to avoid being detected until the last possible moment
>>55193634
Why would you even dog fight in an f-35. Modern combat consists of detecting the enemy first and firing your missiles first. That's pretty much it.
>>55193379
Other fighters have a plan B.
And they didn't even have to make it a decent dogfighter. (in fact, waste of money IMO)
If only they made it fast enough to run away.
>>55192867
US embassies are fortresses though.
The one here in Athens got hit by a rocket about 10-15 years ago and it was like nothing happened.
Not to mention all the security, surveillance etc around it, so the costs are justified.
Success breeds jealousy there's a lot of losers who hate the US and take it out on their embassies around the world.
>>55193520
Australia in charge of not remembering that there are no motherfucking Japanese posters on this motherfucking image board
>>55190944
>six hundred thousand dollars dollars
>>55193697
The F-35 isn't an air superiority fighter... It's replacing mostly ground attack aircraft. Not the F-22/F-15 or superhornet.
>>55192896
>external mount points on a stealth plane
>>55192276
>the F-35 has cameras all around so the helmet lets you turn your head and see 'through' the plane 360 degrees
Seriously? That's cool as fuck. Any pic?
>>55193700
>Success breeds jealousy there's a lot of losers who hate the US and take it out on their embassies around the world.
Yes I'm sure jealousy is the reason
>>55193640
In an actual war some of those will be used for air to ground.
Others for external fuel tanks, because did I mention the range is also shit?
>>55193784
I bet some Jew is responsible for that.
>>55192956
>The F-16 beats the F-35 in a dogfight. The A-10 beats it in CAS, easy.
Holy fuck just stop.
A-10 was not even used anymore. At all. Because a towel head with a Stinger can take it down. They are completely useless today.
And despite the myths F-16 is not a great turnfighter at all. Mig-29 beats it. Mirage 2000 beats it. East Germany Migs completely raped F-16 is tests and exercises because of better agility and Archers.
And that matters absolutely shit because turnfighting is a thing of the past. It was a thing of the past during late WW2 for fuck's sake.
When you force F-16 to turnfight with Migs or Mirages it get's fucked 90% of the time. But in real war there is not even 1% chance of that turnfight ever happening.
>>55193784
Once SAMs are dead, it can be used as a bomb truck.
Also stealth isn't an off and on switch. The RCS is increased but it's still harder to detect than an F-16 without external weapons.
>>55193701
There are plenty of rice farmers here. You should be happy I gave you the benefit of the doubt instead of suspecting that you are just some weaboo autist who enjoys kneecapping his own bandwidth to have rer fleg on a mongolian sockpuppet forum.
>>55193852
The range is better than every jet it replaces.....
>>55193495
Guns are never used in air to air combat anymore. When you run out of missiles you return to base.
And F-35 has supercruise.
>>55193878
There is best bomb trucks than your overexpensive multirole. I am pretty sure you have a shitload of them and you are trashing them to pay for the F35.
>>55193634
>The A-10 can fly after it looks like a swiss cheese
Can an A-10 do this? If an A-10 got in this situation, it would have been dead, period.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uh4yMAx2UA
The fact that this plane got home alive is definitive proof that multi-role fighters are more survivable in actual combat than armored attack planes like the A-10.
>>55191800
>trusting shitty Microsoft with your life
>ever
stop being a fucking retard
>>55193700
Mohammad blowing up US Embassies because the US is always fucking things up in the Middle East.
Yeah, definitely jealousy of America's 'greatness' and not hatred of the Americans.
>>55193857
>A-10 was not even used anymore. At all. Because a towel head with a Stinger can take it down.
A-10 engines are designed so that if a MANPADS hits one of them, the other will still operate. Also it can fly with part of a wing missing.
It's not invincible but it is resilient
>>55193954
Top KEK, the Rafale costs about the same as the F-35.
>>55190944
helm with build in HUD and sensors, micro electronics, anti radar painting custom made for the pilot.
SJW/lefties retards think should be for free.
Fuck the workers, they should not be paid and live from water and bread.
Jesus not even communists would dare to do this.
>>55193946
i'm pretty sure f-15's got multiple gun kills in the first gulf war.
>>55193634
You understand that the "Close" in Close Air Support means that the weaponry gets close to our troops, not that the plane gets close to the enemy, right?
The F-35 has huge air-to-ground capability, excellent stealth capability and the best suite of electronics in the world. How's it gonna get shot down when it's 20,000 ft over the battlefield and invisible to any radar array that isn't the size of a football stadium?
>>55193890
>There are plenty of rice farmers here.
yes but they're all SE Asians who emigrated to Australia
>durr proxy
you're still not getting it and I'm not going to bother trying to explain further
>>55194035
lmao this, fuck all these kids i hope we hang them someday
>>55191595
1 bullet would ruin that thing.
>>55190944
Dude do you know how much tech is stuffed into that helmet. The whole F-35 was built around the capabilities it provides the pilot. Its realtime total force data integrated virtual reality battlespase management. You know in science fiction movies how they always have that high speed virtual heads up display that shows everyone what's going on everywhere at the same time. This is the first gen that in a helmet. The F-35 is a flying sensor it needs this helmet in order for the pilot to be able to process the data it receives. And it has to be able to do what it does while still being light weight so as not to snap his neck in a turn, providing ballistic protection, and still fitting in the cockpit. I've worked with earlier generations of this gear which was nearly as expincive and the F-16 pilots who were qualed on them had a huge advantage. This mated to the sensor fusion of the F-35 is going to shit all over other aircraft other especially when the next gen of air to air missiles come out. We will be able to lock up other aircraft at extremely high angles of attack its going to change aerial combat. If you want to be mad about something be mad it doesn't fit in the F-22 cockpit.
>>55193109
Platoon RETARDS
Berlin front
my fucking sides man ! you ruined them !
>>55194152
one bullet would ruin a horse too
>>55194056
That was in 1990. This is a computer from 1990.
>>55194152
Not really any different than the soldier in that respect
>>55194152
It's for hulling equipment, not combat.
>>55194079
>excellent stealth capability
>invisible to any radar
Muh sides. Stealth is a gimmick. Bunch of dirty slavs with WW2 technology took down a nighthawk.
>>55191761
Space X? Thats Elon musks company right? I heard that for one of their prototypes they used handles on their doors that he literally went out and bought at a hardware store, just to prove that not everything has to cost billions of dollars.
And yea, Musk is a pretty cool guy for what he is doing.
>>55194079
>The F-35 has huge air-to-ground capability
No. A-10, B-52 bombers, predator drones, and AC-130's all provide better air-to-ground capability, and most for far cheaper than the cost to fly an F-35.
>>55193697
The F-35 does have a gun, it's currently in testing you fucking mongs. And it's a perfectly capable dogfighter. Just because it got outmaneuvered by a tiny plane doesn't mean it's shit, it just means the F-16 is an incredible platform in very specific ways. Ways that are unfortunately not enough for modern air combat.
>>55194117
>I am being a difficult sperg lord and refuse to elaborate
I suppose youre going to claim to be a marine posted to Japan.
>>55194056
You would be wrong.
>>55192411
>holy shit someone knows what they're talking about
>>55191289
Gives you a full view of around your plane, which in itself is a huge advantage. Normally in a dogfight, people will have to stand up and look around the cockpit to see their target should they be out of sight, now you can see them wherever your plane is oriented.
>>55194014
The thing is it can be hit with manpads. And is completely fucked against anything more advanced.
A-10 were not flying anymore because it was too dangerous. They were a Cold War relic.
>>55194250
None of those can take out SAMs without the SAMs detecting them.
>>55190944
If pilots are flying planes worth $230.000.000, you might also want to give them $600.000 costing helmets so they don't crash the planes, right.
>>55194233
>They got one
>They missed thousands of them, but they got one.
>Guess that means they win!
>Spend thousands on hardware that provides protection and helps people do their job
>That job can literally be ended in an instant
I never understood the point.
>>55194250
The F-16 has already replaced the A-10 for 90 percent of CAS missions. The F-35 is better at ground attack than the F-16. Thanks.
>>55194194
dude Wing Commander came out in 1990, this is not a typical PC for 1990
>>55194233
Thats because its a night hawk and probably was flying around during the day.
>>55194244
SpaceX actually lost one of their rockets because they contracted out an internal structural piece and didn't test them to verify the contractor wasn't lying about its capabilities.
Rated for something like 10,000kg's and failed at 2,000.
>>55194250
Yes but none of them can be used until every single SAM site has been taken out by ground forces and by then what's the point?
the point is that 99% of worthwhile military tech comes from having a problem to solve
the gubmint/military has been just coming up with solutions to problems that don't exist in order to spend retarded amounts of money
even if theyre is some dogfights in the future, how many will there be? 2 or 3 in the next 30 years?
so we need to spend billions to make sure those fighter pilots who would have a 99% chance of winning those 3 dogfights anyways have another .5% advantage?
muh support the troops
how many politicians left and right go on to be consultants for defense industry crap?
lots
the military is as big of a leech as welfare
>>55194244
He's learning pretty quickly that, yes, things are pricey when the machines to build those little parts costs millions just to design.
>>55194416
Welp, fuck that contractor then. I hope he got some penalties for that shit. I mean if i go buy something that should have X specs, and it does not, someone will get fucked for that.
because if you dare speak out against the military spending the government ignores you and keeps on spending.
even when the people in charge of the army and marines told congress they dont want/need more tanks because we have hundreds sitting in nevada never used. congress went ahead and bought them anyways stating they cant afford to lose those jobs. meaning if they dont keep giving kick backs to the manufacturers they will shut down the plant to spite you and make you lose the next election cycle.
>>55191289
Completely unobstructed view, as in it allows him to basically see through the plane and spot anything from any direction.
Pretty sure they slaved targeting to the HUD too.
>>55194486
When it comes to space flight, you can't rely on contractors. One small part fucking up costs you tens of millions. Better to build things yourself, even if it does cost more money.
>>55194486
True, but in the end the main company is responsible for ensuring their vendors don't fuck up.
>>55190944
i bet this is an overly inflated price, same as US hospitals charging 1000 dollars for anesthesia
>>55193691
If that's your only response, why the fuck would you bother making an airplane at all? You could just launch missiles by themselves, and be done with it.
But to answer your question, it's one of the roles its meant to fullfill if it needs to. That's why it's so awful - it's meant to fullfill at least three different roles (A-10, F-16 and the Harrier), so it ended up doing neither one very well.
>>55193763
>It's replacing mostly ground attack aircraft.
It can't even fly low and slow, it can't take a hit, if you get a grain of dust on it you need to take it back to the hangar for 10 hours of Daisy the transexual mechanic putting the "stealth" (fancy word for "fucked if you go anywhere near long-wave radar") coating back on, and it's just shit in general, for every application.
>>55193857
>But in real war there is not even 1% chance of that turnfight ever happening.
You're right, "muh missiles". An S-400 missile will lock on and shoot it out of the sky before the pilot even gets to try the cream cheese dispenser. If you're going to make shit up and say durr it's just going to be a very expensive missile platform, then it loses that game as well. Furthermore, why does it matter at all what it does, how it performs, if it's never going to ever use any of it? Why would they test it? Why not just use a drone, if you're never doing anything but shooting off missiles?
>>55193981
The A-10 would fly low and avoid getting locked on in the first place. That's the point of it. It's meant to fly low, and shoot at stuff. It can fly with a large part of its systems out of order, because it has double everything. You can't compare the F-16 to the A-10, or vice verse, because they're meant for different things. Only, with the F-35, they made something that couldn't do what either of its predecessors were meant to, and said that it should replace all of them.
>>55194233
Because it had it's bomb bay opened and was flying the same route for days. And that was after hundreds of tries.
And stealth is such a gimmick that Russians and Chinese work on it too.
Seriously, you idiots are funny.
>>55194440
The VR helmet does more than help dogfighting bubbe.
>>55194440
To give an Australian prrspective (I know, I know) the amount spent on the defence industry is to make the cost of an invasion so high its more worth while trading instead of annexing. Applying this to a hegemonic power it could be said the US spends what it spends because, among other reasons, it makes the cost of going against American interests so high you are better off going along with it
>>55194549
They did. There is no physical HUD. The entire plane is built around making sure the pilot is never really looking at instruments.
>>55191595
Whats wrong with a donkey?
>>55193997
found muhammed
>>55194607
Why does it need to fly slow and low? The planes it's replacing don't.
>>55190944
Its 2015!
>>55194462
Still, from what i heard he keeps the costs insanely low compared to other companies. Wich is good. I mean a ton of tech could be availible to the common man if development costs were not so overblown.
Especially when development and production of a certain piece of technology costs lets say 1 mil, and in every single step someone added some fat on the price, not just a normal profit, but an extra little something for himself. So you end up with nearly double the price.
>>55194600
Not really, at least i would not say so. As if you are buying a very specialized piece of equipment, you most likely wont have the required equipment to test those things. I know at my company as we produce a product, we have internal testing and we get tested by an outside source. Sometimes 2. And those are professional laboratories. And not once do we get tested by whoever bought our product. We ourself have to assure the quality, and a lab checks on us a few times a year.
>>55194693
>What's wrong with a bolt action?
>>55192411
op just got schooled
>>55194250
>A-10 - 16,000 lb (7,260 kg)
>F-35 - 18,000 lb (8,100 kg)
I'm getting tired of this shit. You fags are too dumb to even check the shit you spew.
>>55194654
yeah, it spits out gorillions of shekels to the gubmint and the gubmint connected
>>55190944
It's probably one of the most important aspects of the aircraft. The Russians already have helmets capable of tracking targets just by looking at them. We need that capability as well because it really is a game changer.
>>55192329
>>55192446
>Talos Suit getting distributed to US special forces in 2018
Exosuits are coming boys.
OP, why are you using an old outdated pic of the helm prototype?
>>55194607
>it can't even fly low and slow
Why are retards still spouting this bullshit.
CAS doesn't mean THE PLANE GETS CLOSE TO THE ENEMY it means that we deploy weaponry CLOSE to our troops to take out emplacements/armor/materiel that they need support with. It doesn't matter if CAS comes in the form of an A-10 spraying 30mm slugs 100 yards away from a tank or if that same tank gets melted by a chemical laser in a 747 600 miles away.
>>55194607
>It can fly with a large part of its systems out of order, because it has double everything.
The F-35 has massive systems redundancy, and the stealth coating is actually baked into the airframe so even if in some preposterously unlikely scenario where an F-35 had expended all its air to ground missiles and had to descend to make a pass with guns and some guy with an AK got retardedly lucky and nicked the skin of the plane, it would still be undetectable to radar emplacements.
>>55194806
doesn't even matter
they usually stick 2 JDAMs and a AGM or two on any combat aircraft cuz thats all they need
>>55194440
The point is deterrence. The idea is that if you have a force that is demonstrably superior in every possible way, then you won't have to fight at all because nobody will even try. We can argue about if it works well or not, or if it is worth it, but that's the idea.
>>55194607
>The A-10 would fly low and avoid getting locked on in the first place.
MANPADs exist and not at all rare.
>It can fly with a large part of its systems out of order, because it has double everything.
The F-15 can fly with one of its wings completely blown off. The A-10 does not have a monopoly on robustness.
You guys need to understand WHY the A-10 exists. The A-10 exists because in the past computer systems were huge and heavy so you had to carefully choose what kind of systems that you wanted in your plane. If you wanted an air-to-air fighter, okay, you need specific avionics and systems for that. If you want an air-to-ground strike aircraft, okay, you need specific avionics and systems for that. Now, technology has advanced and you can easily put all those systems in one aircraft.
>>55194767
Well, it may be different for space launches, but when a corporation puts out a product such as a car and then a vendor's product fails and a bunch of cars crash and people die, saying "it was the vendor's fault" doesn't really work in practice. If the company puts their name on a product, they are effectively vouching for its quality and they are responsible if it fucks up.
The vendor is of course also responsible.
>>55194607
>S-400 missile will lock on and shoot it out of the sky before the pilot even gets to try the cream cheese dispenser
Jesus...
S-400 radar can lock a 0.01 RCS target at 70km. F-35 has RCS of 0.001. F-22 has RCS of 0.0001. HARM has a range of 150km.
Stealth is a gimmick right?
>>55194924
The two screws near the chin strap cost $1200 dollars each
>>55195031
They're some nice damn screws though.
>>55195031
Not really. Most of the cost is due to the image projectors/electronics and that the helmets are custom carbon fiber made specifically for each pilot.
They allow a pilot to see targets dozens of miles behind him and fire missiles before the targets even detect the F-35. I think that's worth 600k.
mad chumps who are spewing horse shit everywhere in this thread without even checking their fucking facts first
>>55194486
Yeah, but fucking that contractor doesn't un-fuck your own business. This sort of thing was part of why the early industrialists built vertically integrated monopolies. They needed near complete control of their supply chains to ensure quality.
>>55195175
Remember when everybody was shitting on F-16 for being a piece of shit when it was getting into service? There were documentaries on how horrible it is and how it's going to suck.
You can still find some of them on Youtube.
>>55195175
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0btzIvlScI
Can't wait brit bro.
>>55192437
>You would really feel like an ass
>>55195031
Fuck that, ill sell them screws like that for 1000$.
I had an experience with hillariously overpriced screws myself. 4 nuts and 4 bolts = 700~ eur. A bit more actually. Managed to get the exactly same specs custom made for 200. The only reason it was that expensive was because the company making them used a non regular thread, so noone else had them in store.
>>55195241
I cant say i dont agree with that philosophy.
>>55194349
I would love to know how much they actually cost to make compared to the cost they actually pay. I mean it's fairly obvious the mark up price is always high, but can it really be so expensive to make that, even if you're eyeing minimal profit it's still over half a million dollars per unit? Let's see if we can find out who could possibly be behind such a thing
>F-35 helmet
>Built by Rockwell Collins
>Rockwell Collins CEO: Kelly Ortberg
>Kelly Ortberg, Jewish American
>In partnership with and using technology that was developed by Elbit Systems
>Elbit Systems HQ: Haifa, Israel
>Key people: Chairman, Michael Federmann (Jewish Israeli). President and CEO, Bezhalel Machlis (Jewish Israeli)
Just once I would like to come on /pol/ and be genuinely surprised. Just once.
>>55195440
What if they require titanium screws? And it takes a 10 million dollar machine to be able to produce those screws, and the order is only 1000 screws? What do you charge your client in order to cover the costs of your custom titanium screw machine?
>>55195175
>CAS means the plane is close to the ground
>We should never ever modernize our airplanes
Maintaining the current fleet of aging airframes will be more expensive then replacing them with F-35s
People say the F-35's stated cost is many times higher than any other airframe ever, by huge factors, and they're right. But they're only correct because the F-35 is the first aircraft to have its expenses calculated 100% over the entire estimated lifetime of the aircraft. From Research to training, manufacturing, repairs, upgrades, fuel, maintenance, literally every possible cost has been included in that number.
educate yourselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtZNBkKdO5U
>mfw my airbase is getting these abominations in a few years
People have no idea how much these pieces of crap break down. They are unrealistic to use in any kind of prolonged war.
>>55195708
All fighter planes are high-maintenance bitches. If you signed up for maintenance duty, it's too late to start complaining about it now. Any other plane would be just as bad.
>>55190944
Random observation here but...
Why do the pilots even have to be airborne along with the plane at this point?
A computer somehow interfaces every possible input and output between human and aircraft.
Seems like eliminating the pilot, ejection system, mechanical controls, oxygen and pressure systems and all the issues with human physiology and visibility limitations, would give these jets a new level of performance.
>>55195849
It's a lovely dream but it would be pretty easy to jam those transmissions and then your plane is useless.
>>55194607
>It can't even fly low and slow
You know that 5th gen doesn't mean it's stealthy, rather it means everything is fucking networked and let's the a single infantry unit direct fire directly for the plane, without all the hassle that existing platforms have to deal with to make it happen. It's designed around the concept, instead of being an afterthought, F35 is THE best CAS plane ever designed so far.
Food for thought, F22 wasn't canceled only because of it's price, it was also canceled because it didn't fully embrace the 5th gen networking capabilities.
>>55195849
>A computer somehow interfaces every possible input and output between human and aircraft.
You will get lag if they're at a significant distance.
>>55195505
Just shut the fuck up and keep paying for these totally awesome Macross helmets. They will surely aid your flying brick.
>>55195849
Pilot needs incentive to bring big expensive machine back to base.
>>55193109
>RETARDS
My fucking sides. Post of the day right here.
>>55195511
Thats not how screw making is done. As long as its a screw with a head and a pre determined thread, you can machine them. Sure you will need to buy a harder bit for your threading machine and recalibrate it, and yes it will be more expensive than regular screws you produce in millions, but it will never reach 1000$ a screw. Fuck it would be cheaper to hand carve them. Its just because wherever they were machined has a buddy in the company that ordered them, and neither of them is actually paying for the screws with their own money, but the goverments money, so they know they can add an insane margin on the product.
In the case where i got custom made screws, they hand made each, because of the odd threading we required. And it was still heaps cheaper.
>>55195849
1. All drones have lag. You cannot use drones your jobs where reaction times matter........yet.
2. Drones can be jammed.
3. The satellite time that drones uses is actually really, really expensive. You're not saving as much money as you'd think.
>>55195912
>it didn't fully embrace the 5th gen networking capabilities.
A $5 Billion retrofitting package could have solved that WITHOUT a new variant which people want over the F35.
Faggot.
>>55195849
>jam/hack signal
>you now have a billion dollar flying piece of metal loaded with weapons ready to be repurposed in a combat zone
>sargeant, how did our logistics base get blown to bits?
>shut the fuck up carl, 1 meal a day and no more offensive operations until resupply.
>>55191684
We haven't had a "dogfight" since Vietnam. All air combat is done at engagement ranges of 100s of miles, and often not even using that plane's radar. You see a dot, you target that dot, dot goes away as a 10 million dollar missile fucks it up the ass at mach 4.
>>55193632
R A R E
A
R
E
>>55193640
JUST
FUCK
MY
STEALTH
UP
SENPAI
>>55190944
Nice fucking helmet.
>>55196082
didnt the US have some cases where their drones got jacked?
>>55195820
>any other plane would be just as bad
The F-15 is one of the most reliable planes in world history and still one of the best performing aircraft. No reason not to just modernize our older designs that work.
And god no I'm not in maintenance. 6C for life.
>>55193109
>one of the platoon's RETARDS (Reciprocating Electronic Tactical Advanced Robotic Deployment System)
>>55196081
>A $5 Billion retrofitting package could have solved that WITHOUT a new variant which people want over the F35.
>Faggot.
I'm not arguing against the F22, it's by far the best air supremacy fighter made, but it really blew it's budget
>>55196081
The F-35 wasn't designed to replace the F-22.
Faggot.
>>55196122
And then it's still carrying 2000lb more ordnance than an A-10 with longer range and faster overall speeds.
>>55190944
You're obviously not paying attention. Everyone in the AF except CSAF General Mark Blows-Deborah-Lee-James-On-Tuesdays Welsh hates these stupid things and thinks it's a waste of money.
>>55196185
>Why don't we still use the P-51
You
>>55196219
>F-22 really blew it's budget
>in a conversation about the F-35
wut
>>55196262
The F35A is.
>>55196081
>>55195849
Ultimately, I think that the F-22 was cancelled for the same reason that the F-14 Tomcat was retired in favor of the Hornet.
There just isn't as much need for dedicated interceptors nowadays. Dick Cheney had the Tomcat canned because he said that with the collapse of the Soviet Union, there wasn't any need for a dedicated fleet-defense interceptor anymore. And really, he was right. It's 2015 and no credible threat to the fleet has emerged.
Plus, the Tomcat was very maintenance intensive even by the standards of fighter planes.
>>55196185
Yes, the F-15 is great. The most successful fighter plane of all time with a 105:0 kill ratio. Completely undefeated. But here is the thing: technology marches on.
>>55196185
It will be cheaper long term to build and run the F-35, which is designed to have a lifecycle far longer than any other fighter ever built, than to spend literal trillions reconditioning airframes that weren't designed to last as long as they do.
Unit costs for the F-35 are cheaper than:
>The Dassault Rafaele
>The Eurofighter Typhoon
>The F-22 Raptor
>>55196400
>There just isn't as much need for dedicated interceptors nowadays.
F22 was bombing ground targets in Syria last year. It's literally a multi-role jet.
The only issue is that it has no VTOL (duh) and can't be carrier launched (possible with new variant, they had designs).
F35 is a lie of an economic stimulus program and an excuse to piss away trillions.
>>55196144
Yes. Iran managed to steal one that way.
>>55196400
>Yes, the F-15 is great. The most successful fighter plane of all time with a 105:0 kill ratio.
Going up against Saddam's Iraqi Air Force, which was already running away to Iran, doesn't constitute kills. That's equivalent to 5 cops shooting an unarmed citizen.
Who else did they shoot down? Some Vietnam-era Sukhois from Libya's tired Air Force? Shill harder.
>>55196573
The F-35 program is cheaper long term than:
>maintaining our current fleet
>modifying a fleet of F-22s to fill the roles of the F-35
>>55190944
How much do you think one of these cost the govt over the course of its life?
>>55196794
Correction: was supposed to be cheaper than
>>55194192
A horse doesn't run on a loud petrol engine.
Big dog is a lame concept. It's little brother "spot", tho...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8YjvHYbZ9w
>>55196794
>>modifying a fleet of F-22s to fill the roles of the F-35
Roles that are mostly unnecessary. To justify the Ford carriers they need F35s. It's a load of "stimulus" and trickle down horseshit.
>maintaining our current fleet
Current F-22 fleet would become equivalent to the F18 Hornets (non-Super) once the new planes start coming out of production with the $5 billion software package pre-loaded. Your argument is invalid.
>>55196573
The F-22 can only use GPS guided bombs. It has no IRST, EO-DAS, EOTS, or side-scanning AESA arrays. It does not have the F-35's integrated sniper pod or electronic-warfare system. As far as design goes, the F-35 is much more competent in the air-to-ground role.
>>55196863
>How much do you think one of these cost the govt over the course of its life?
Easy
>18 years x childsupport
>4 years x welfare
>60 years x prison inmate costs
>>55195849
Working on it, our new bombers are being designed with that in mind.
>>55194692
>there is no physical hud
OH THATS A GREAT IDEA
I bet the helmet will NEVER break
>>55196921
>Current F-22 fleet would become equivalent to the F18 Hornets
The F-18 is carrier-capable. The F-22 is not.
>>55190944
>Each one of these helmets costs $600,000 dollars.
and they look cool as SHIT
>>55190944
Now now, if you can afford the helmet then you surely can afford to stock up on JSM. Now that oil prices are tanking, we need to start thinking of out other industries.
>>55196929
Obviously the F35 is a bomber, and the F22 a dogfighter. The F22 has a way higher thrust to weight ratio.
>>55196882
No, current estimates have it all being about 50% cheaper than maintaining all our current planes.
Let me reiterate: The reason the number for the lifecycle for the F-35 is so much higher than other numbers we've seen before is because this is the first time the Pentagon has collected every cost possibly ever associated with the F-35 from the beginning of the JSF program to the end of the F-35's lifecycle in 2065. Overall the F-35 is actually very reasonably priced per unit, being cheaper than the F-22, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Dassault Rafaele. It's also designed to be extremely upgradeable and modifiable because of the new design techniques (concurrency) used in its production.
The idea of the F-35 being a huge boondoggle is a lovely narrative but that's all it is. The F-35 is actually a fucking awesome plane and I'm pretty hyped to see it in action.
>>55193640
>spend $25M on stealth features per plane
Pilot to engineer: Just fuck my shit up!
>>55197040
F18 Advanced Super Hornet is a more REASONABLE fighter for carriers and has stealth capabilities and a modern software suite.
F35 just makes the overpriced Ford carrier a bigger floating bulls-eye.
>The F-22 can only use GPS guided bombs. It has no IRST, EO-DAS, EOTS, or side-scanning AESA arrays. It does not have the F-35's integrated sniper pod or electronic-warfare system. As far as design goes, the F-35 is much more competent in the air-to-ground role.
Could all be retrofit along with the cheaper stealth coating.
>>55197119
>F35 is a bomber
its a strike fighter you shitlord
the F22 isn't even a dogfighter, nobody dogfights anymore
>>55197169
>Could all be retrofit along with the cheaper stealth coating.
F35 doesn't have a coating, it's baked into the very airframe
>>55191595
We space marines now?
>>55197149
You get what you pay for with the Su-50 lmao
An F-35 would shit on it so fast the pilot would be wondering where his plane went before he knew he was locked.
>>55194440
This. The B2 has parts made in every state, so that if it ever gets mentioned as an overpriced piece of crap, senators can stand up in Congress and bleat "muh jobs".
You yanks are completely keked by your M.I.C. and you don't even realize it half the time.
>>55195849
DARPA is retrofitting A10s with AI to do this
>>55196144
It wouldn't be a drone receiving signals, it would be a closed system. Takeoff, go to co-ordinates, hit target, leave, land. All on autopilot.
>>55196653
Really, we ought to be allowed to blow up our own property at any time. If a bunch of Iranians are celebrating around it at the time we choose to do so, it would be their own fault.
fucking party monkeys. Anything from the US is like an aphrodisiac to them.
>>55197169
>Let's retrofit a more expensive airframe instead of using a less expensive airframe that can already do all the stuff we want to retrofit the F-22 for.
>>55197148
Go back to reading Tom Clancy novels or whatever it was you did before you found some badly conceived disaster of a technical project to design a religion around.
>>55191800
Holy shit, are you really this dumb?
>>55197325
>jobs r bad
This is why nobody buys your shitty cars, Ahmed
>>55197363
Fuck. An A10 with AI?
That's some scary shit.
>>55197169
>F18 Advanced Super Hornet is a more REASONABLE fighter for carriers and has stealth capabilities and a modern software suite.
This may be a legitimate point. I have no way to disprove it. I am not familiar with the specifics of the ASH. It could be a superior aircraft in comparison to the F-35C.
>>55190944
>chinese shills still trying to show discontent for US military spending
Go home Chao, and learn English before you shit post next time
>>55197370
His post was interesting and insightful. Can you say the same, Hippie?
Fuck you. Pilots are wizards and somebody needs to develop holographic eye augmentation.
God Bless the USA
>>55197171
I guarantee you that any combat scenario in the future will end with a dog fight. The rules of engagement, with technology on both sides negates the firing of missiles 100's of miles away. I say this as a pilot myself.
>>55197370
would you like to address any part of my post instead of ad hominem-ing me, Tyrone?
That 1.1 trillion lifecycle cost (recently revised to ~850 billion) includes every expense through 2065, which is really not that bad for what we get out of the F-35. Maybe you'd like to watch an informative video and cool the fuck off lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_2796494681&feature=iv&src_vid=ZtZNBkKdO5U&v=LyHlp7tJrxY
