Christ proved the existence of God through his word and his miracles.
Christ is proven by the Bible.
The Bible is authenticated by the prophecies it has written in it that have been fulfilled and continue to be fulfilled to this day.
What more evidence do you need?
This IS proof of God.
Jesus died and took upon himself the wrath of God so that you may inherit eternal life!
He loves you and wants to save you!
>>44415674
Didn't we just have this thread?
Never forget that the command of Jesus is to LOVE!
Jesus is at the door knocking!
All you need to do is let him in!
He loves you and wants to save you!
Don't let these people stop you from reaching the truth.
>>44418784
> tfw you can't hear the knock
>>44415674
rofl, literally believing in a thousand yeard old book. you are literally retarded
>>44415674
aww yesss
>>44415674
your jesus seems like a pussy
>pic very related
>>44418784
>will sup with him
sup jesus?
sup dawg
>>44419128
>The Imperium! How mighty its aspect! How far-reaching its boundaries! As one world dies ten more are brought into the fold. Fear us, for we count the lives of planets, not men!
>>44419227
>When the people forget their duty they are no longer human and become something less than beasts. They have no place in the bosom of humanity nor in the heart of the Emperor. Let them die and be forgotten
>>44419293
>Men united in the purpose of the Emperor are blessed in his sight and shall live forever in his memory.
>>44415674
Save me from what?
Here is the jesus of 4chan
>>44419353
>No army is big enough to conquer the galaxy. But faith alone can overturn the universe
>>44419379
>Prayer may cleanse the soul, but pain cleanses the body. Both are necessary for the survival of humanity.
>>44419359
Death. You've sinned and deserve to die. Punishment is torture in the lake of fire.
It's a very big deal.
>Death in service to the Emperor is its own reward. Life in failure to Him is its own condemnation.
>>44419471
>The Emperor of Mankind is the Light and the Way, and all his actions are for the benefit of mankind, which is his people. The Emperor is God and God is the Emperor, so it is taught in the Lectio Divinitatus, and above all things, the Emperor will protect...
>>44419516
>When it was over, when the blood had dried and the fires had died down, then we found we were the same as we had always been - small and terrified human beings, with only the light of the Emperor to see by in this dark galaxy of sin.
>>44419443
I'm going to die irregardless in about 70 years from now.
Why would I be tortured if I deserve to die?
Why not just let me die?
>>44419542
>Seek not escape from misery in death for He That Is Most Mighty gathers not the Selfish Dead to his side.
>>44419571
Because sin has no place in the future, it has to go somewhere, the lake of fire. Along with evil, and anyone who wants to go there who didn't choose life and believe in the Lord Jesus. It's all going to be burned up together and then forgotten.
>>44419624
>Across the void of space men live as they have lived for millennia upon the sand, rock and soil of worlds bathed in the light of alien suns. So is Humanity's seed cast far and wide beyond the knowledge of Man, to thrive bitterly in the darkness, to take root and cling with robust and savage determination.
we imperium now
>>44415674
>2015
>believing some dude was born to a virgin mother that did all kinds of magic but once he died all the magic suddenly went with him and every answer to every question is vague as fuck and left to interpretation
Seriously...
>>44415674
>>44419651
I'll be forgotten after I die anyway, why would that matter to me?
Wouldn't the lake of fire be just as good as God if it gets rid of sin? Why doesn't God just get rid of the sin by himself? Besides I thought Jesus died to forgive everybody's sin anyway.
>>44419825
>why would that matter to me?
Your spirit will burn. I don't want you to go through intense pain for rejecting life. I want you to be welcome in the Lord's kingdom.
>>44415674
OP is a faggot confirmed
>>44419731
>>44419817
Hark! The True Believers have come to help make war upon the false religions of our past
AVE ][
>>44419825
>Burn the Heretic! Kill the Mutant! Purge the Unclean!
>>44420016
>>44419886
But I'll be dead. I won't feel pain anyway.
>>44419941
I would follow Him to the Eye of Terror and back I would
>>44415674
Wow could you be more of a fucking scrub?
>>44415732
the spam is because 8....chan's /christian/ is raiding us.
Thread ids:
64064
75103
>>44415674
>The Bible is authenticated by the prophecies it has written in it that have been fulfilled and continue to be fulfilled to this day.
orly
>>44420792
>>44420789
This spam now belongs to the Imperium.
>>44415674
>Christ proved the existence of God through his word and his miracles.
Too bad documented history doesn't agree...
>>44415674
Which prophecies have come true then?
>>44419715
>>44419731
Autists have arrived.
>>44415674
The bible is a sad joke
>>44415674
>proved
convincing
>>44415674
>Christians jump though hoops to justify a poorly written metaphor as if it actually happened
mfw after a year of constant Bible study and mentoring I'm beginning to understand the Trinity, the all-inclusive Christ, and the kingdom of God
mfw Christianity is the most beautiful thing I could ever take part in
mfw God is as much as a reality to me as my own being
>>44422838
>>44422838
iktf. just makes these threads worse, look at the responses. total despair.
>>44415674
Let's say that the events depicted in the bible actually happened. How do you even know that the devil didn't disguise himself as the son of god to corrupt his followers with false tenets? Why does jesus seem to want to cancel a bunch of the old testament's tenets and overwrite them with other ones that are more comfortable to the average person?
>>44415674
threads like this are the cancer that is killing /pol/
>>44421962
Your emperor was never a god.
>>44415674
>Christ is the truth
>Doesn't even real
Kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Lmmy2jfeo
>>44423329
>Why does jesus seem to want to cancel a bunch of the old testament's tenets and overwrite them with other ones that are more comfortable to the average person?
Matthew 5:17
That said I have often wondered the same thing as a thought experiment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504
>>44423329
Lets say
>>44422838
>>44415732
Yes and christfags got BTFO
>>44424355
>>44422992
>>44422970
this is amazing. i was an avowed atheist until i met my mentor but wow it feels good to be truly alive. why do liberals and secularists want to destroy this
>>44425645
They are too consumed with the things of this world.
>>44425857
>idolizing the creature subject to vanity
Wisdom 13 would like a word with them
>>44415674
Amen, Yehoshua is our King. Redemption is through Him!
>>44425645
Read the Book of Jasher!
>>44425645
some people value reality over muh feelings
even if that reality isn't pretty
>>44415674
What is truth?
>>44423464
Yep
>>44430844
Christ is the Truth.
And the Way.
And the Life.
>>44430972
Matthew 22:36-40
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
>>44418952
This means you're normal. If you hear the knocking and voices in your head, you're not normal.
I've started Christtrolling in real life it's absolutely hilarious to me.
>>44420569
>Horus was born on December 25
False. Stopped reading.
Check your sources Brit.
Shit on Christianity as you please, but don't use bullshit.
>>44422838
>le indoctrination faec
>>44415674
Circular Reasoning Alert!!
>>44434228
That last bit about Dionysus is horseshit though. Dionysus is the god of fucking wine. He can make it out of horsepiss if he likes and the claim that he wasn't referenced as a holy child is a blatant lie. Read the fucking Bacchae.
>>44415674
There is no God but God
He does not beget nor is he begotten
He has no start and no end
If Christians didnt believe in 3 Gods, and had a book that was written while Jesus was still alive, I would be Christian
>>44415674
>Jesus died and took upon himself the wrath of God so that you may inherit eternal life!
Jesus died to usurp Satan, the sovereign of this world. God is not a petty being who needs to take his anger out on someone.
I love Jesus
>>44434547
That's Penal Substitutionary Atonement for you.
>>44415674
>its true because I said so.
>proof
Pick one and only one.
>>44418889
Currently doing a read-through of the Gospel According to Matthew.
>>44420178
Those better be Jews burning.
>>44434581
The prodigal son.
>>44421813
So basically the end won't come until everyone on earth is christian?
>>44434428
"Three gods"
See that is where you are incorrect.
One God, three manifestations.
>>44434426
>Info on Dionysus was wrong
>Thus everything else is.
Well it didn't specify it just being water, as for the child thing...well yeah, divine child could be applied to alot of the Greek gods, so whats your point?
>>44435095
So three Gods?
If Jesus is God then God was born to a human? His own creation?
If Jesus is God then why did he say "alai alai lamma sabaqtani" on the cross
Why is it that this concept of "Manifestation" isnt even mentioned in the Bible?
Why did King James insist on changing "Son of God" to "begotten Son of God"
If we are all Children of God, and Jesus is the Son of God, I have no problem
However if you say that Jesus is the literal son of God, then Im sorry but I just have to disagree.
Id rather believe in a singular God, one who does not "manifest" in humans, one who has no mother or son, one whos very being cannot be explained by human means, one who cannot be killed so on and so forth
>>44434428
Muhammad died and rotted in the ground. He left a book and a bloodied middle east behind him.
Christ died, was buried, and resurrected. He left behind a church that triumphed despite every persecution thrown its way.
>>44435095
I find it funny how Muslims always drone on about how the trinity "makes no sense" and that it implies polytheism and thus isn't true, yet at the same time claim God is incomprehensible to mortal men. Even if the trinity were incomprehensible (it isn't) or suggested polytheism (it doesn't), it wouldn't "invalidate" God as a monotheistic being, as he is incomprehensibly complex and impossible for a mortal man to interpret.
To imply that the one, almighty God is incapable of having three manifestations without dividing himself into three separate essences is pure nonsense.
>>44435355
Give me a moment. I can actually answer every one of these.
>>44435362
Same with the remnants of Paganism, Zoroastrianism, Yazidism and le Jews.
Your point is?
>>44435296
My point is the image was bullshit. If you're going to talk about Dionysus and you're not even aware of something that incredibly basic about his mythology, holy shit. The Bacchae is literally a story about Dionysus' appearance as a new holy child. Of course, he's a totally degenerate one, but come the fuck on. This is like claiming Osiris never died. It's such a basic mistake it's retarded.
>>44422838
"Some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." -NIV
Death in the bible does not mean organs stop and your soul moves on.
Death, by the biblical sense, means separation with God. This means that some of his disciples will not sin until their mortal bodies fail them, however some of them will and will need to ask for forgiveness.
>>44435517
It could also be crappy Greek translation. Luke is known for having a terrible translation into Western languages, along with other books.
In KJV the 10 Commandments say "Thou Shalt Not Kill", however the Hebrew word from the originals was "Murder", not "Kill".
>>44435362
I respect Jesus for the great man he was and do my best to follow his example, unlike Christians who think its okay to abandon his teachings and practices.
Tell me, why Christian women dont cover their bodies and hair?
Why do many Christians not have their children circumcised? Surely if Jesus, or God "Manifest" was circumcised, we should follow suit.
Why dont Christians pray with their head to the floor like Jesus and many other prophets mentioned in the bible did?
Why dont Christians refuse pork, even though Jesus upheld its ban?
Really I could go on and on but you get the point. In practice, Muslims love Jesus more than Christians since they do more do emulate his beliefs and way of life
>>44435355
>If Jesus is God then God was born to a human?
Yes, of his own parentage.
>If Jesus is God then why did he say "alai alai lamma sabaqtani" on the cross
He was quoting a psalm that prophesied the crucifixion.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/psalms/22:8
>Why is it that this concept of "Manifestation" isnt even mentioned in the Bible?
John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.
It's a lot of reading between the lines and realizing Christ left a church behind,not a book, and the bible doesn't necessarily contain every small detail of the faith.
>Why did King James insist on changing "Son of God" to "begotten Son of God"
The King James version is a very beautiful, widely read, but ultimately flawed translation. I wouldn't use it as a basis for any argument you make for this reason.
>>44435355
>So three Gods?
No, not three Gods. 1 God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all fully God.
Just like with RGB, if each value is 255 (assuming it's 8 bits of course), the result is black. The 1 colour is black, the three parts are red, green and blue.
>If Jesus is God then God was born to a human? His own creation?
Jesus was both fully God and fully human, this is the hypostatic union.
>Why did King James insist on changing "Son of God" to "begotten Son of God"
Because he more or less disagreed with other translations around, the KJV is a pretty awful translation really compared to other more modern versions.
>However if you say that Jesus is the literal son of God, then Im sorry but I just have to disagree.
Jesus is not the son of God. Jesus IS God. Jesus is the son of the Father.
The ones I haven't addressed I don't really understand what you mean or are asking.
>>44435517
>Death, by the biblical sense, means separation with God.
Is that the lie that your preacher helped perpetuate? Actually, that quote was to be taken literally. Early christianity was an apocalyptic cult, and it is abundantly clear that the early christians expected the end of the world in their lifetimes.
>>44435355
God (The Father) chose to manifest in human form by impregnating Mary and having her give birth to Jesus.
Jesus asks why the Father has forsaken Him because this is the apex of his human suffering, which was neccessary for Him to complete Satan's defeat.
>>44435658
>Actually, that quote was to be taken literally.
I guess you're just a genius whose personal opinion overrides that of 2000 years worth of scholars.
>>44435658
:^)
>Your PASTOR is wrong, but I, the mighty keyboard warrior, am infallible in any way!
>>44435731
>I guess you're just a genius whose personal opinion overrides that of 2000 years worth of scholars.
You mean 2000 years of apologetics? Yeah, I do actually. See: >>44423553
If even one of you jewcuck failures did even the most basic research into biblical history that wasn't written by a christian, you'd know half this shit already.
>HURR WHY DUS NONCHRISTIANS ALWAYS FINK DEY KNOW OUR RELIBIOIN BETTER?
Because literally everyone knows more about christianity than christians because christians are specifically taught NOT to do their fucking research.
>>44435628
>Tell me, why Christian women dont cover their bodies and hair?
Real Christian women do. In church. See pic.
>Why do many Christians not have their children circumcised? Surely if Jesus, or God "Manifest" was circumcised, we should follow suit.
Because circumcision was the sign of the Old Covenant. God made a new covenant that involves a spiritual circumcision rather than a physical one. I can dig out verses showing this if you like.
>Why dont Christians pray with their head to the floor like Jesus and many other prophets mentioned in the bible did?
Again, real Christians (read Catholics) do this when in the presence of Christ in the eucharist. You must also realize that the only instructions Christ gave us for prayer were to pray earnestly. He didn't set a specific form for how we pray. Even the "Our Father" is an amalgamation of the types of prayers we should pray.
>Why dont Christians refuse pork, even though Jesus upheld its ban?
Because Matthew 15:11 - "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
>I could go on
You're caught up in the law. Christ came to fulfill the law and free us from sin. The entirety of the commandments, he says, are summed up in "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your mind, and all of your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself."
>>44435737
Keep running your mouth, while refuting nothing. You're only proving how weak your position is. Sass isn't truth.
>>44415674
we have toilet cleaning problem. send christ here. we need a cleaner.
>>44435961
>Mocking tones through text
>Pointing out a handful that is supposed to represent the lot of us
Let me tell you, thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain. He shalt not forgive you of it.
(Which means in common tongue, if you use Christianity as a false reason to validate something, you have committed an unforgivable sin).
This covers those bad apples who think they're being holy but will burn for eternity in fire and sulfur.
>>44435424
I would hardly call pagans, zoroastrians, yazidis and jews triumphant.
>>44435961
>all defenses of Christianity are biased
>all attacks on Christianity are not
Hot opinions there, kiddo.
There were plenty of brilliant men who converted to Christianity entirely of their own free will (pic related), becoming religious doesn't immediately invalidate their opinion.
>>44436094
Why? They pretty much still exist today despite heavy persecution.
>>44436046
>Indians
>toilets
Good one m8 10/10
>>44436062
Why should anyone be afraid of mystical threats from a religion that's already been proven to be blatant falsehood based on previous jewish falsehood?
>>44436103
>all attacks on Christianity are not
The greatest part of all of this is that it doesn't matter how you feel about this information, because you're sitting on lies and your opponents aren't. And if you think you're right, go ahead, try to support your claim with something more than "muh fedora".
>There were plenty of brilliant men who converted to Christianity entirely of their own free will (pic related), becoming religious doesn't immediately invalidate their opinion.
It invalidates their opinion because christians lie for the faith. We have a word and an entire practice named for it: Christian Apologetics.
>>44435643
>Yes, of his own parentage
So God is on a lower level than a woman?
>He was quoting a psalm that prophesied the crucifixion
And yet he meant every word of it. How is it possible for God to forsake himself?
>John 10:30
One what? Because in that context hes talking about the granting of eternal life to his flock
>I wouldn't use it as a basis for any argument you make for this reason
My point was that he changed it for a reason. What was he compensating for
>>44435647
> if each value is 255 (assuming it's 8 bits of course), the result is black. The 1 colour is black, the three parts are red, green and blue
That implies that black cannot be black without the three colors. That would mean that God was not God before the existence of Jesus and the Holy Ghost
>Because he more or less disagreed with other translations around
Obviously he disagreed with it, but he was the only one to add "begotten" whereas previously and even now, most Christian scholars considered the act of begetting to be low and dirty, only fit for animals such as ourselves.
>>44435671
So god sired himself through his creation?
Do you not see how contradictory that is
>>44435989
>Real Christian women do
So why do most christians say that the laws that refer to it are no longer needed, when clearly its the word of God
>Because circumcision was the sign of the Old Covenant
What happened to the whole "I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it"
>real Christians (read Catholics) do this when in the presence of Christ in the eucharist
Fair enough
>"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
That in no way nullifies the law of God, it simply outlines the importance of ones words and how speaking badly defiles oneself
>You're caught up in the law
How can there be order without law. Without law, how can one follow the teachings of God
>>44436169
your mom's mouth is our toilet.
>>44436191
>Why should anyone be afraid of mystical threats from a religion that's already been proven to be blatant falsehood based on previous jewish falsehood?
Because it's not a mystical religion but a revealed truth and by ignoring it, you're endangering yourself.
>>44436162
Pagans are gone. There may be a few left out in the boons of northern europe, but the pagan religion as a whole is dead. Wicca, Asatru, etc. are all atheism and magic dressed up with a new name.
Zoroastrians? You can't even convert into the faith. The numbers are so few that a dedicated regime could wipe it out forever.
Yazidi? Yeah, they still exist, but I wouldn't call them relevant or triumphant in any way. I mean ISIS could easily scatter them so much there'd be no real coming back.
Jews? Their religion is their race. They're a special case, and I'm not sure I'd describe their history or current situation as one of triumph.
Existence =/= triumph
>>44436202
>That implies that black cannot be black without the three colors.
In RGB colourspace black only exists as a combination of the three colours. If my attempt to explain it fails because of your lack of basic computer/graphic knowledge, that's on you not on me I'm afraid.
>>44436202
>So god sired himself through his creation?
>Do you not see how contradictory that is
No, because you're intentionally misreading what I wrote.
God (The Father) is not human. In order to accomplish the task of redeeming mankind and liberating us from the authority of satan, He needed to use a being that was both human and God. The only way to do this was to create Jesus.
This is not contradictory in any way.
>>44436273
But there's nothing true about it, faganon. The entire religion is false, and it's already been shown why. Here ya go: >>44435011
Judaism is a bullshit religion of parasites who cobbled together and plagiarised Mesopotamian, Egyptian and Canaanite beliefs and we know this with 100% certainty. Nobody even disputes it except the most ignorant of christians. On top of that christianity is based on something totally other than what christians think it is. It's nothing but a jewish hit in a local trend of personal savior gods. Jesus never existed as an actual person and any christian claiming there is evidence to the contrary is just flat ignorant or lying.
>>44436348
I took two years of Java and learned basic graphics, my bad im not enlightened as you apparently are.
>In RGB colourspace black only exists as a combination of the three colours
Which is exactly my point, if you took the 10 seconds to read my post. Without even one of those three colors, the black would cease to exist, am I not correct?
>>44435078
until there are believers of every ethnicity at least
>>44436408
>No, because you're intentionally misreading what I wrote.
Youre the one that said he impregnated our mother Mary and that he was born to her
>God (The Father) chose to manifest in human form by impregnating Mary and having her give birth to Jesus
>Impregnating Mary
>Give birth to Jesus
Which I did not misrepresent or mislead in my post in any way.
> He needed to use a being that was both human and God.
I dont remember reading that in the bible.
>>44436306
The Jews suffered and were persecuted. Same with the Yadizis and Zoroastrians. But they survive. Christianity was able to gain power thanks to Constantine the Great who decides to tolerate and support Christians.
Ok, granted, the Pagans are gone and it's all New Age bullshit now but just because Christianity triumphed over every persecution does it make it unique or the true religion. The Jews, Yadizis and Zoroastrians had all went through it all.
>>44436593
The surface meaning of what's written in the bible offers a very general understanding. I'm referring to the Christus Victor theory - if you're not familiar with it, I can give you a brief summary.
>>44436202
>So God is on a lower level than a woman?
God gave a woman the highest honor anyone could conceive of. A woman has been closer to God than any of us ever will. If that is low, then I don't know what your definition of high is.
>And yet he meant every word of it.
Did you read the psalm? It ends on a triumphant note. We must remember that Christ had a human nature alongside his divine nature, and was prone to every failing we have except sin.
>One what?
Read the surrounding verses as well. 10:33 - For a good work we stone thee not; replied the Jews, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
John 1:1: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God
John 1:14: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”
I can keep this up.
>My point was that he changed it for a reason. What was he compensating for
Not having valid apostolic succession. His was a schismatic church, not part of the true vine. Nothing protestants do is really any sort of argument against Christianity, as they aren't "real" Christians.
>So why do most christians say that the laws that refer to it are no longer needed, when clearly its the word of God
See above. Protestants.
>I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it
He did. The law was fulfilled in him. He upheld it perfectly, and it is still perfectly fulfilled in him at this moment.
>Fair enough
You're coming around.
>your last two posts
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment.” (CCC 2053).
Jesus perfects the dietary law, so important in Jewish daily life, by revealing its pedagogical meaning through a divine interpretation: -snipped verse we're talking about lolpostlimit- (CCC 533)
>>44436612
>Christianity was able to gain power thanks to Constantine the Great who decides to tolerate and support Christians.
Well, my point exactly. God allowed his church to flourish.
And, aside from the other flourishing religion, Islam, that is a major reason I choose Christianity.
>>44436763
>Nothing protestants do is really any sort of argument against Christianity, as they aren't "real" Christians.
I'm curious as to why you lump protestants in this category when there are more nominal catholics.
What is the condition to follow Jesus? To be a Christian I mean. Do you have to ascribe to the teachings of the catholic church?
Believe Jesus is the only way to be redeemed before God, repent, follow. Right?
"If you love me you will keep my commandments."
Anyway, I bring this up because I agree with all of your posts thus far and they seem well articulated. Yet I would identify much more so with protestantism and maybe, maybe lean more so towards the calvinist side of things. Actually I should say what some refer to as "reformed."
>>44436843
What about Buddhism, Shintoism and Hinduism? They seem to be doing fine despite having to bear with Islam's mad rampage.
>>44437009
>Shintoism
>doing fine
Maybe in Tohoku. Maybe.
>>44436669
Im not interested in theories, im interested in the word of God
>>44436763
>God gave a woman the highest honor anyone could conceive of
When a child is born it is helpless. It owes the entirety of its survival and nourishment to its mother.
God doesnt need anyone, he never did and never will. We need God, not the other way around.
>We must remember that Christ had a human nature alongside his divine nature, and was prone to every failing we have except sin.
I dont believe in a God thats prone to every failing
>John 1:14
So essentially Jesus was the word made flesh, meaning the message of God? If so, I have no issues with that.
>His was a schismatic church, not part of the true vine
That explains it, ill be using that against the next protestant that tries to convince me an adulterated book is the word of God.
>He did. The law was fulfilled in him.
Surely that means the law was also established? The law being fulfilled doesnt exactly give us the choice of discarding very blatantly stated laws
>The Law has not been abolished
Makes sense, It just makes my brain hurt when someone says they can defy the law of God because "hurr we dont need to anymore"
>>44437064
>I dont believe in a God thats prone to every failing
Maybe other anon meant he was "tempted" in every way we are. But never sinned.
>>44437009
Did any of them have witnesses to a man coming back from the dead?
>>44437007
>I'm curious as to why you lump protestants in this category when there are more nominal catholics.
Because despite the state of so-called "believers," Catholic theology is the correct theology, and the Catholic Church is the church of the apostles. Christ left a church. Not a book.
>What is the condition to follow Jesus? To be a Christian I mean. Do you have to ascribe to the teachings of the catholic church?
"If you love me, follow my commandments"
"Go to all nations, converting and baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit"
We must obey his commandments. Those are embodied in the church he left behind. We must also be baptized so that we can be "born from above."
>Anyway, I bring this up because I agree with all of your posts thus far and they seem well articulated. Yet I would identify much more so with protestantism and maybe, maybe lean more so towards the calvinist side of things. Actually I should say what some refer to as "reformed."
Well, have you ever sat down and taken a serious look at the church, or are you just relying on hearsay as to what we actually believe? Protip: We don't believe good works get you into heaven.
You didn't immediately jump into shouting "whore of babylon" and I thank you for that. That's why I'm not shitposting at you.
>>44437112
Either way, God is not supposed to feel any type of temptation, the human emotions that we have were created by him, our desires and so on, those are not attributes of God, they are attributes of a human.
God simply cannot be a human and God simultaneously, its just a plain contradiction
>>44437192
>Did any of them have witnesses to a man coming back from the dead?
Well, they have relics at best. Plus how would you even know the Resurrection is historical and actually happened anyway.
>>44437192
>Did any of them have witnesses to a man coming back from the dead?
Did christianity?
Answer: Nope.
>>44437192
>Because despite the state of so-called "believers," Catholic theology is the correct theology, and the Catholic Church is the church of the apostles. Christ left a church. Not a book.
I understand this line of reasoning. But was not the reason for the split because of non-Christian practices and abuse of indulgences which became used for unoriginal purposes? You may have to help me, I'm trying to recall. But please, if I'm wrong give me a source to check, I don't just take peoples word for it.
>We must obey his commandments. Those are embodied in the church he left behind. We must also be baptized so that we can be "born from above."
Agreed. And it breaks my heart to know so many professing protestants blatantly ignore Jesus's commands.
>Well, have you ever sat down and taken a serious look at the church, or are you just relying on hearsay as to what we actually believe? Protip: We don't believe good works get you into heaven.
I have but it's rare I get to hear from a catholic perspective directly, that's why I'm asking. But I also admit it has been some time since I have done so, so my memory and which questions I need to ask may come out poorly.
>>44437064
>God doesnt need anyone, he never did and never will. We need God, not the other way around.
Agreed. But he chose to redeem his creation by becoming human. He chose to do this through Mary. It seems foolish, but it's what happened. Who are we to judge God?
>I dont believe in a God thats prone to every failing
It wasn't his nature as God that was prone to failing, it was his human nature. His divine nature remained perfectly divine throughout his incarnation.
>So essentially Jesus was the word made flesh, meaning the message of God? If so, I have no issues with that.
Yes, Jesus was the word made flesh. He existed with God in the beginning, and without him nothing was made. He is literally an aspect of God. A coin has two sides, but we don't argue that each side is an individual coin, rather, the same.
>That explains it, ill be using that against the next protestant that tries to convince me an adulterated book is the word of God.
You like that? They also REMOVED books from the bible. The Catholic canon has 72, the protestant only 66.
>Surely that means the law was also established? The law being fulfilled doesnt exactly give us the choice of discarding very blatantly stated laws
>skipping quoting your next post as the answer is also here
We are called to live the spirit of the law. Love god, love your neighbor. Anyone who does this cannot violate the law, because they are the spirit of the law. I can find the verse where Christ says this if you want.
>>44437112
Right. The bible goes into detail on this when he spends 40 days in the desert.
>>44437312
Don't limit God. By saying "God can't" you are telling God what he can do.
>>44437312
>God simply cannot be a human and God simultaneously, its just a plain contradiction
Why?
>>44437312
He came to Earth as his Son, so that he would experience human lusts and desires.
>>44437321
>>44437343
Martyrs who chose death by torture rather than saying they lied. Would you die for a falsehood?
>>44437398
>I understand this line of reasoning. But was not the reason for the split because of non-Christian practices and abuse of indulgences which became used for unoriginal purposes?
Sure. The church has experienced corruption. It's only natural, it is administered by a bunch of humans. Every problem Luther had was taken care of in the counter-reformation and the Council of Trent (IIRC).
>Agreed. And it breaks my heart to know so many professing protestants blatantly ignore Jesus's commands.
Same. Even Catholics, what with the "spirit of vatican 2" I keep hearing about. There's only one spirit I care about -- the holy spirit.
>I have but it's rare I get to hear from a catholic perspective directly, that's why I'm asking. But I also admit it has been some time since I have done so, so my memory and which questions I need to ask may come out poorly.
Sure, ask away, I'm not nearly as big a prick as I come across as.
>>44437556
>Martyrs who chose death by torture rather than saying they lied. Would you die for a falsehood?
This doesn't seem like a strong argument to be honest. There's a Buddhist monk in Vietnam that burnt himself alive. We don't even know if Buddhism is true just as we don't know if Christianity is true.
>>44437556
>Martyrs who chose death by torture rather than saying they lied. Would you die for a falsehood?
Why do you idiots actually use this as a common argument? Are you all literally so fucking stupid you don't know how you sound?
>Hey, why would fictitious people that there are no actual records of lie about something equally fictitious? Checkmate, atheshits!
Literally. Fucking. Retarded.
>>44437740
But he died for what he believed was true. You've inadvertently made my point for me. People who were alive with Christ, and supposedly witnessed a living Christ after he was buried, chose to die under torture than recant their belief.
Because they believed it.
>>44437782
>the apostles didn't exist
Do you realize how retarded you sound right now? I'm giving you one warning that I'll drop this line of conversation faster than you can tip your fedora at me if you keep acting like a sperg.
>>44437901
>the apostles didn't exist
They didn't, you literal retard. Provide proof that they did. And before you attempt another all too common and retarded christian argument, yes YOU need to provide proof of the claim that these people existed.
I believe in Jesus. But I remember something along the lines of "if you change the word of God you Damn everyone to hell" and I begin to wonder, especially after browsing /pol/, how much may have been added by corrupt dudes. Like all that stuff about always supporting the Jews? It legitimately scares me
>>44437901
>But he died for what he believed was true. You've inadvertently made my point for me. People who were alive with Christ, and supposedly witnessed a living Christ after he was buried, chose to die under torture than recant their belief.
Hell same with the Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims...etc Not really convincing.
>Because they believed it.
Plenty of people believe plenty of different things.
>>44437556
>Sure. The church has experienced corruption. It's only natural, it is administered by a bunch of humans. Every problem Luther had was taken care of in the counter-reformation and the Council of Trent (IIRC).
Gracias, I have read some of this before, but thanks for the reminder. I will review it.
>... There's only one spirit I care about -- the holy spirit.
What are some specific roles of the Holy Spirit? I ask only because within protestant circles there is a lot of disagreement and opinions about what the Holy Spirit does and does not do as of late. You can check out some information surrounding the "charismatic movement" if you're interested.
I think it's because people don't read their Bibles. But, I was just wondering if in the Catholic sphere there is much disagreement amongst Catholic leaders/lay-persons,etc.
>Sure, ask away, I'm not nearly as big a prick as I come across as.
Nah, yous alright homie. I know the typical stereotype protestants have about catholics as well is that they aren't "real Christians." But like I said, I've agreed with your theology almost 100% thus far (I say almost just incase I missed something). It's probably because we read the same book and have the same Lord or something. I dunno, crazy.
Can you explain to me why protestants often have the idea that catholics believe in works-salvation. Or rather, grace + works. Not grace only AND works are what you do out of love for God and you WILL do them because if you are following God you will want to. I hope that came out sensibly, I'm a little bit tired.
Are there things nominal catholics do that misrepresent catholics or is there some doctrine catholics believe that protestants disagree with or possibly misinterpret?
I can assume likewise there are many reasons catholics don't believe protestants to be christians, as I read from your posts. I can think of many things nominal protestants do and believe that make us look no different than the nonbeliever.
>>44437951
>written about in multiple historical writings and accounts
>durrr they didn't exist!!111!
Prove that socrates, pythagoras, aristotle, euclid, eratosthenes, homer, caesar, nero, archimedes, hippocrates, etc. existed. Prove that any of them existed.
Also if you are going to use "durr, their works!1!!!" as an argument, bear in mind that the original texts of the bible and the early greek writings number into the thousands and tens of thousands, whereas the original texts of these made up fake people number in the 1's and even 0 in some cases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5lJ3y4ihd8
>>44437997
I believe his point was that they were primary witnesses of the fact. It's easier to die for a lie you've believed based on faith (I know that sounds weird but stick with me) than for a lie you've fabricated yourself. Because if it is a lie you have 100% proof it is a lie, because you made it up. That's the difference between some of these cases.
It's not a completely flawless argument, but it certainly adds to the likelihood of it being true. Especially as they had nothing physical to gain from it if they were threatened with death.
Also, kinda unrelated but it reminds me of Thomas who was all like "nuh uh, I don't believe Jesus was here. " And they were like "yeah dude, he totally was." And so Jesus had to show up to Thomas and let Thomas see his wounds before he would believe it was really Jesus. (John 20)
>>44438084
>written about in multiple historical writings and accounts
No. They're not. You're ignorant of the facts. There are only two sources for the historicity of Jesus. Christian myth and counterfeiting, which are basically one source: lies.
>Prove that socrates, pythagoras, aristotle, euclid, eratosthenes, homer, caesar, nero, archimedes, hippocrates, etc. existed. Prove that any of them existed.
You're completely retarded. There is ample proof that these people existed. There is ZERO that Jesus did outside of the gospels. Literally zero.
>Also if you are going to use "durr, their works!1!!!" as an argument, bear in mind that the original texts of the bible and the early greek writings number into the thousands and tens of thousands, whereas the original texts of these made up fake people number in the 1's and even 0 in some cases.
Literally everything you've said in your post has been false. See: >>44423553 39:08
>>44438084
got em
I'd give you a fist bump catholic bro, but you're across the pond.
>>44438255
I love how you have addressed literally zero and of my points and have just put your fingers in your ears, thrown insults out, and gone 'lalalalala'.
Thanks for being an ample reminder that science is a cult now.
>>44437997
But they died because they believed he really came back from the dead. It's not an issue of what different martyrs may or may not believe because they ALL believe they're dying for what is true.
These particular ones died because they believed they saw the risen Christ. They believed it enough to die for. Might not be proof enough in itself, but it's something that you have to keep in mind.
>>44437951
see>>44438084
There are plenty of documents, not even necessarily the bible; Clement wrote of Paul and Peter going to Rome, showing that yes the apostles were real people.
>>44438023
>gracias
Happy to help.
>specific roles of the holy spirit.
I'll do you one better than a truncated answer and link you here.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c3a8.htm
Start at paragraph 731
>yous alright
I'll get to the rest of your post after this. The character limit seems to be my enemy in this thread.
>>44438219
This, thank you.
>>44438255
You and I are specifically talking about the apostles. Clement of Alexandria specifically names two of the apostles, and this is not a biblical book. So there you go. Proof of their existence.
>>44438219
That's cute but,
a)Just because one has faith in something doesn't automatically entail that that something is true. It could be the case that one is mistaken and that something is false
b)Ok, sure maybe the Apostles and martyrs didn't think that their beliefs are false and are really into it but it must be remembered, we are willing to die for our ideologies.
c)I think I heard this before. Thomas is basically doubting until Jesus shows up and proves him wrong. Well, still waiting for something to show up and change my mind I guess.
Jesus:
> So called virgin girl gets pregnant while her husband didn't stick it in her yet.
1: She enjoyed some sandnig cock and got pregnant, decided to lie about it and pretend it was god's doing to avoid being beaten to death
2: God stick it inside her for no reason. I mean, if some entity created the universe, surely same entity could just create one human rather than cucks some poor guy.
> yfw jesus was just a bastard child and people where so dumb they actually believed his mother's lie.
>>44438354
Yeah I get that. But I really don't know. Especially when other religions seem to also have it right.
>>44438255
>There is ample proof that these people existed.
source, actually interested I promise
>>44438311
>I love how you have addressed literally zero and of my points
I've addressed them all. You are mistaken in your belief that any of your arguments are based in fact, when they are not.
>have just put your fingers in your ears, thrown insults out, and gone 'lalalalala'
Ironically, that's precisely what you have done.
Also: >bear in mind that the original texts of the bible and the early greek writings number into the thousands and tens of thousands, whereas the original texts of these made up fake people number in the 1's and even 0 in some cases.
THIS is an outright lie, and it's such a big one I think even you know it is.
>>44438354
>Clement of Alexandria
"In 1973, Morton Smith, a professor of ancient history at Columbia University, reported having found a previously unknown letter of Clement of Alexandria in the monastery of Mar Saba on the West Bank transcribed into the endpapers of a 17th-century printed edition of the works of Ignatius of Antioch. The original manuscript was subsequently transferred to another monastery, and the manuscript is believed to be lost. Further research has relied upon photographs and copies, including those made by Smith himself.
The revelation of the letter caused a sensation at the time, but was soon met with accusations of forgery and misrepresentation. Subsequent study, including handwriting analysis of higher quality color photographs of the document, first published in 2000, revealed more possible evidence of forgery, scholars such as Craig A. Evans and Emanuel Tov to conclude the work is a hoax, with Smith being the most likely perpetrator.[1] However, while an increasing number of scholars have been convinced by this view, many still maintain that the Mar Saba letter itself is genuine, and debate continues about the authenticity of the letter and the Secret Gospel it describes.[2]"
Oh yeah, buddy is that ever convincing. So literally all christians have are lies and forgeries. Like I said.
>>44438023
>Can you explain to me why protestants often have the idea that catholics believe in works-salvation
It's a misunderstanding of the sacraments. The sacraments are visible signs of God's invisible grace. Confession for example, it isn't the priest forgiving you, it is Christ forgiving you, the priest is just there to give you confirmation since Christ isn't just standing around.
We also believe you can lose your salvation, and must not backslide into sin. Our works must be good if we are to be called Christians -- otherwise we are whitewashed tombs, dead in sin.
>there things nominal catholics do that misrepresent catholics or is there some doctrine catholics believe that protestants disagree with or possibly misinterpret?
Oh man where to start.
>nominal Catholics
I actually met a lady who believed it was Mary filling her prayers. The biggest enemy to the church right now is the fact that we don't educate as well as we should.
>misinterpret
See above re: sacraments
>I can assume likewise there are many reasons catholics don't believe protestants to be christians, as I read from your posts.
Well, I'm a bit of a prick about it tbh. Protestants are Christians in that they profess to follow Christ, but they are not members of his church. They'll do backflips about an "invisible church" but every word Christ spoke in the gospels that we can apply here was all about "You don't light a candle and put it under a bucket," we're called to be "a shining city on a hill." Both of those imply unity. And then there's Christ's prayer in the garden "Let them be unified as you and I are unified." (IIRC I don't have the verses memorized exactly.)
Fucking Christians. Nepal is in need of tents, food, rescue teams and what they receive is thousands of copies of The Bible.
http://www.opindia.com/2015/04/when-nepal-was-groaning-in-earthquake-christian-missionaries-were-shamelessly-selling-jesus/
>>44438506
Hey man, I'm not even trying to convert you right now, I'm just giving you the reason for my hope. You're alright. You ask good questions.
>>44438546
One possibly forged letter doesn't devalue the entirety of the man's writings. You're reaching.
>>44438550
Well that's Evangelicalism for you
>>44438354
>I'll do you one better than a truncated answer and link you here.
Thanks. As a follow up, I guess I would ask what the Holy Spirit does practically to help believers. For instance, do people still get the gift of tongues, prophecy, healings, etc. after Pentecost.
>a)Just because one has faith in something doesn't automatically entail that that something is true. It could be the case that one is mistaken and that something is false
Right, I mentioned that. The difference does exist though between doing something out of your belief (what you have seen and who you have talked with, resurrected Jesus) and hearing about a resurrected Jesus. The people who believed because they claimed the former were willing to die. Again, not a lot of incentive to do it either unless they talked with a resurrected Jesus.
>b)
I'll be honest I didn't quite follow what you were trying to say. Could you rephrase that?
>c)
Yeah, well. Jesus was like "dude, stop doubting already it's me, here touch my side and see the hole where they stabbed me." He also recognized the difficulty of believing without seeing and promised greater blessings to those who do.
Of course you can argue that was just "added in" for others to have more incentive to believe. I couldn't prove you right or wrong, but him saying that fits the character of Jesus. Jesus is a pretty merciful guy, I'll buy it.
>>44438663
Relax, I ain't offended. In fact I find some of the arguments here to be quite good, better than the stuff you get out of the Fundie's mouth.
>>44438663
>One possibly forged letter doesn't devalue the entirety of the man's writings. You're reaching.
But I don't have to reach. Again, watch the god damned video, you willfully ignorant fuckwad.
14:12
"We know of over 40 different gospels that were written" - but I'm sure they were all genuine, even though only 4 are used now.
"When you look at the 2nd century of christianity, it's just a flurry of forgery. In fact, when you do the adding up of all the documents that the christians nowadays think are authentic compared to all the other documents written...overwhelmingly by like a 5:1 or 10:1 ratio forgery to authentic. So forgery was actually the norm. It wasn't an exception, actually. Making shit up is what the christians were doing almost all the time."
>"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law."
>>44438873
Yeah guess so. But I still have some issues with the conflicting accounts in the Gospels and that from what I heard, the authors of the Gospels are kinda anonymous so it could be that it is a forgery. Who knows?
>I'll be honest I didn't quite follow what you were trying to say. Could you rephrase that?
Well I'm just saying that we are willing to die for our ideologies so it may not be a stretch to think that the martyrs would also die willingly for them though it may not be true.
>Of course you can argue that was just "added in" for others to have more incentive to believe. I couldn't prove you right or wrong, but him saying that fits the character of Jesus. Jesus is a pretty merciful guy, I'll buy it.
I can see your point. But the anonymity of the Gospel authors kinda make things a bit more complicated.
>>44438873
>Thanks. As a follow up, I guess I would ask what the Holy Spirit does practically to help believers. For instance, do people still get the gift of tongues, prophecy, healings, etc. after Pentecost.
Yep. Look into "charismatic catholics."
Prophecy is unique in that people misunderstand it. It's not necessarily about telling the future. What did the prophets do for God? They told Israel how badly they were fucking up. We're called to do that to the modern world.
>>44438906
Yeah it's 4chan, people can be a bit touchy here. It's like walking on eggshells, especially in these threads. I'm trying to walk a fine line where I'm firm about my beliefs without drawing people into a flame war.
>>44438980
I'm not inclined to just up and believe someone yelling "forgery," especially in the anti-Christian society we live in today. You can link me as many videos as you like, but without seeing the scientific data proving it I remain unconvinced. What I can do is reference you to a book that neatly cites all extrabiblical evidence for the existence of the apostles, if you like, since I haven't taken the time to actually go through and make a copypaste catalog of things I need often.
>>44438550
Are you demanding people give you stuff? Then getting mad at the ones who do?
What an asshole.
>>44438801
You're an asshole, too.
>>44439238
The thing about the bible in general is when people try to treat it as an infallible history text. It is infallible, but not in that regard. It teaches infallible moral theology.
The gospels get bits of things mixed up -- to be expected, since they're relaying different stories they heard from different apostles. But the church, under the guidance of those who were themselves taught by the apostles, were able to take the texts that most accurately portrayed Christ's message and ministry during his life on Earth. With an emphasis on the "message" part.
>>44439262
Well you can't satisfy the Fedora Atheists though.
>>44439350
Dude why are you doing this.
I'm explicitly referring to what the Evangelicals do. Not the Mainline Christians
>>44439374
You never can. I play to the back room when I discuss things with them. I know nothing I say will convince them, but there are usually people lurking that may see the truth in my words.
>>44438255
>There are only two sources for the historicity of Jesus
Bill O'Reilly's book gives sources. If you care, check it out.
>>44438548
>It's a misunderstanding of the sacraments.
>confession
Thanks, I had known about this one. Just curious, does this have any relation to John 20: 23?
I believe confession needs to play a much bigger role in protestant theology. It is there, certainly. But it is not widely practiced and I believe it's the reason why there are so many protestants trapped in sin and other stuff. James 5:16 and so forth
>Our works must be good if we are to be called Christians -- otherwise we are whitewashed tombs, dead in sin.
Agreed, a tree is known by its fruit. However, I suppose that is a point I disagree on. I believe you can't lose your salvation that is. Reformed protestantism (reformed times two baybeee) holds a belief that people are saved by God's will as He holds ultimate sovereignty. So if you are a "christian" but there is no fruit, it's likely you never were. What are your thoughts? (Protestants frequently get into debates amongst themselves about the concept of predestination)
>I actually met a lady who believed it was Mary filling her prayers. The biggest enemy to the church right now is the fact that we don't educate as well as we should.
This is the kind of thing that we point at, it's true. People who pray to Mary as though she is a divine goddess who can grant wishes.
>They'll do backflips about an "invisible church" but every word Christ spoke in the gospels that we can apply here was all about "You don't light a candle and put it under a bucket," we're called to be "a shining city on a hill." Both of those imply unity.
I agree in a universal church. However with cultural and language differences it is inevitable that Christians become different in some ways, especially in tradition. I disagree with protestants who don't think they need to be in community with other believers and of course keep his commandments. The church is the bride of Christ after all. What would acceptable Unity look like to you?
>17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
>>44439373
Hmm...alright fair enough here. It could be differing POVs that cause these differences. Well only from a literalist approach perhaps would this be a problem.
>>44415674
I remember when I had my agnosticism murdered. It was the day I became a born again atheist.
Read this book.
Watch these videos: https://youtu.be/MlnnWbkMlbg?list=PLA0C3C1D163BE880A
>>44438550
Meanwhile there are still Christians who are dropping everything to do actual relief work and are donating tons of money as well.
Why not some Bibles too?
>>44420789
Why do they care so much about getting people from here to go over there? If they had a lively community like they claim they wouldn't be doing this.
>>44439547
>>44439547
>>44439547
that's weird. That book is actually right next to me right now. It seems kinda dry, I'm having a hard time starting it. I think I got through the first chapter once. So you're saying it's worth starting again? It was kinda cool learning about the early faiths and shit.
>>44439658
It is dry, but good. The videos are a summary of the content. The book contains the details and can provide a fuller understanding.
>>44439262
>Prophecy is unique in that people misunderstand it. It's not necessarily about telling the future. What did the prophets do for God? They told Israel how badly they were fucking up. We're called to do that to the modern world.
We usually call this "being salt and light." I'm sure you use that phrase too. A popular protestant preacher recently spoke about the responsibility of the Christian to do this in American culture. His name is David Platt, I think the book is called "counter cultural" or something. Dude is pretty solid but I haven't read the book, so it's not necessarily a recommendation, just something I recalled.
I think the way protestants think of "prophecy" in the recent days is like "receiving a word from God." Meaning like, "oh, I believe the Holy Spirit has prompted me to share this with you." Or prompted prayer. Or something like that.
>>44439501
>Just curious, does this have any relation to John 20: 23?
Yep. That was the insitution of the sacrament. Handed down to every priest since.
>I believe...protestant theology
Never gonna happen. It's like herding cats. And the ones who do get it usually wind up back home in Rome.
>Agreed, a tree is known by its fruit. However, I suppose that is a point I disagree on
Hate to just keep linking you, but this goes into more depth.
http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/09/can-you-lose-your-salvation/
I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize” (1 Cor 9:27)
How can he be disqualified for the prize if everyone who calls on the name of God is given the prize? (The prize, in context, is salvation)
>This is the kind of thing that we point at, it's true. People who pray to Mary as though she is a divine goddess who can grant wishes.
And not at all in line with Catholic teaching. When a finger points at the moon, the fool looks only at the finger.
>I agree in a universal church. However with cultural and language differences it is inevitable that Christians become different in some ways, especially in tradition.
That was why the mass was held in Latin for so long. It gave us all a common ground to come to. We could go off on tangents here about the Maronites, Melkites, etc. but the fact is that the church isn't unified by the form of the mass, but by obedience to the See of Peter and by extension Christ himself.
>What would acceptable Unity look like to you?
The same thing going on with the Anglicans coming back to the church right now. They get to keep their married priests, most of their liturgy (the words of consecration are always the same, which is why I said most), just so long as they come into line with the church and accept her as the bride of christ.
>>44439532
Yep. And that's why the Catholic Church has never taught the bible is a literal history book.
>>44439517
>20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Thanks Jesus for giving us your righteousness which surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law.
I sold my surfboard today because I wanted to give the money to poor people.
The only trouble is, I have no idea where to find poor people.
>>44439752
>We usually call this "being salt and light."
Sure. I can dig it.
>David Platt
Never heard of him, but may I recommend you to Father Larry Richards? He's a leading figure in the New Evangelization and has a vast amount of videos up on youtube.
>I think the way protestants think of "prophecy" in the recent days is like "receiving a word from God." Meaning like, "oh, I believe the Holy Spirit has prompted me to share this with you." Or prompted prayer. Or something like that.
Pretty much. And that's not entirely innacurate, we should do that when we feel the holy spirit prompting us, but it isn't the whole of what prophecy is. Basically, the Holy Spirit gives us spiritual balls.
>>44415674
>Christ Is The Truth
>implying there a single truth to the universe
>not oscillating between the narratives laid out before you and finding what is the most truthful
Subjectivism can only go so far, I know; but you need to lighten up, bub. Read more into metamodernism.
>>44440123
What if 1+1=2=truth=Jesus?
>>44440248
the fuck are you on about?
>>44440248
No no, it's stating that without the truth of Christ, mathematics wouldn't exist at all.
>>44430698
Exactly. I'd rather be objective about this world. Look at it from the outside and see all the people with their beliefs. I put my focus on humanity and the things we should be working toward.
An apocalyptic view of the world can be dangerous as well. If the end is near, big fucking deal, just focus on your own damn Christianity. I'll burn in your hell for all I care. You're already gonna burn in everybody else's. Let's focus on space exploration and advancing and maintaining our species.
>>44439811
>Never gonna happen. It's like herding cats. And the ones who do get it usually wind up back home in Rome.
Not sure I agree, I've actually seen a large movement of protestants begin to adopt confessing to one another as a regular practice. It's done for two reasons, primarily so that there is transparency within the community and so that through help and prayers of the brothers and sisters that they will find freedom from this through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
>How can he be disqualified for the prize if everyone who calls on the name of God is given the prize?
I guess the answer would be that they aren't. God draws to himself those He wishes to save. I don't think our views are incompatible. It's a bit complex for me to explain though. Perhaps when I say I view "saved once always saved" if you do fall from grace you never were saved... because ultimately you fell. That is, in the big picture sense. That is why I think I agree with the concept of predestination. I apologize, I think I need to accurately arrange my thoughts but I'm a little tired. Bear with me.
>That was why the mass was held in Latin for so long. It gave us all a common ground to come to.
I can see the benefit of this. But if a person is unable to read and understand surely there is a problem which is greater than difference in tradition.
Anyway, I've really enjoyed the discussion. Like talking with other Christians and non. Iron and iron, and stuff. But I need to get some rest. I'll read your responses but likely won't respond back.
oyasumi
>>44439855
Yes, the Law is not abolished as most Christians teach, but fulfilled; even if we never failed at keeping the Law we are only saved through Jesus. We shouldn't be driven to follow the law simply because we are commanded, but through our love of G-d and His Son.
>Romans 2
>13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
The Law cannot save you and there is no NEED to keep the Law, but if you keep the Law in your heart and not simply as tradition as an outward show of righteousness, then how can other Christians be against that?
...
>>44439915
>Basically, the Holy Spirit gives us spiritual balls.
okay i lied, one last comment.
I just wanted to say I like that phrasing.
>>44440364
We'll pick this up another time. It's legitimately the only reason I trip.
Pax Christi.
>>44440382
>Romans 7
>7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
I don't look down upon Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant or any other denomination, I have learned and kept a lot by researching them, but I've decided to at least observe Shabbat and all of the Old Testament holy days. Christianity began as a sect of Judaism and it has been forced too far from its roots by both Christians and Jews.
>>44420225
High five. Also, blasphemy.
>>44440390
Thanks. You can keep it. Have a rare pepe, too.
>>44439722
>>44439722
Oh is this by evidence?
I forgot about those videos, that's why I bought the book in the first place.
>>44440302
if by "truth" you mean unbridled certainty in the wake of the harsh, unforgiving landscape that was Classical antiquity, then sure; mathematics wouldn't exist at all.
>>44440354
>I'd rather be objective about this world.
Porque no los dos? Are we not capable of quantifying what type of perspective is necessary given certain situations and events across the world? It's always amazed me to see the fascination some anons here have with modernist and pre-modernist thought. https://ensorcel.org/metamodernism-a-primer/
>>44440571
>>44440571
Yes, same series. I think looking at the historical reasons people have come to their conclusions provides a good argument to the concept of a god itself. It is a cultural phenomenon we have seen in many cultures. We live in a culture surrounded by Christians, and that is why we hear about it more. Yet the beliefs for Christians, Jews, and Muslims can be traced to a common culture and many factors had influenced how these systems of belief exist today.
Read that book when you can, Anon. You'll like it when you finish.
>>44415674
Christ was merely a man who managed to purge the vast majority of his reactive mind, and thought that the resulting powers came from god rather than natural ability
bump for Christ
wouldn't jesus be in hell if he died for the sins of humanity?
if he died sinless, those that killed him just sinned, and there's no saving mankind
how does this salvation shit work?
Did god send himself to hell?
>>44439262
>I'm not inclined to just up and believe someone yelling "forgery,"
Yet you're more than willing to believe some dumb, obviously lying asshole trying to sell the Book of Mormon: Part II because it supports your views. You're a waste of space.
>You can link me as many videos as you like, but I'll just cover my eyes and stick my fingers in my ears and never learn anything
>What I can do is reference you to a book that neatly cites all extrabiblical evidence for the existence of the apostles
Which will, no doubt, be constructed of objectively verifiable lies, misattributed quotes and little else. There is no actual proof for 12 apostles following a mythical Jesus. There are apostles like Paul who are historical though.
>without seeing the scientific data proving it I remain unconvinced
Go read his sources then, you cowardly faggot. We both know you won't though.
>>44439451
You mean the man who claimed on national telivision that nobody knows how tides work and that's proof of Jesus? You mean him? And there is nothing peaceful or tolerant about jewish religion. There has scarcely been peace from any form of jew for the entirety of that abominable family of religion's history. Your image is bullshit. We know what happens when ignorant batshit crazy fucks like him control society because it's happened already.
>>44439811
>Yep. And that's why the Catholic Church has never taught the bible is a literal history book.
I find this humorous, since you're trying to argue that mythological figures from the bible are honest-to-god real historical people, when they're not. That's literally using the bible as a history book. Your whining to the contrary, all your claims are derived from the works of early christians, not actual historical fact. You're just too biased and stupid to know it.
>>44440615
Excellent idea. I will ponder this on my summer. I'm 20 years old and taking in all the ideas I can to ponder but never pounce on.
Wikipedia was no help at explaining metamodernism as I was not well informed on what modernism and postmodernism were. Thank you for your source. Perhaps there is something out there that can explain the world, but for now I remain as analytical and objective as I can.
Do you have any recommended reading?
>>44440928
>how does this salvation shit work?
Christ assumed responsibility for YOUR sins, and for everyone else past, present and future. He never sinned, yet He allowed Himself to be beaten, humiliated, and killed without complaint because He loved YOU and so that YOU would not have to answer to G-d for your sins so long as you acknowledge His sacrifice. That's how I view it anyway.
>wouldn't jesus be in hell if he died for the sins of humanity?
no, Jesus is G-d
>if he died sinless, those that killed him just sinned, and there's no saving mankind
what
>Did god send himself to hell?
According to the Apostles' Creed "He descended to the dead/He descended into death/He descended into hell" maybe? Christianity is more open-ended than many would have you believe. We don't even know what heaven/hell are.
http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html
>>44441392
>Do you have any recommended reading?
Unforutantely no, metamodernism is a pretty recent phenomenon in post-post-modernist thought. There was a recent anthology entitled, The YOLO Pages" that came out recently; it's not so much a coverage of metamodernist life philosophy but rather provides examples of it in action.
These are the links I always give to those interested in it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/metamodernism-the-basics_b_5973184.html
http://timotheusvermeulen.com/post/21091370383/what-is-metamodernism
http://www.aestheticsandculture.net/index.php/jac/article/view/5677/6304 There's also this: http://www.metamodernism.com/2012/05/29/to-engage-in-literature/
Avoid anything pertaining to Shia Labeouf and James Franco; they don't know what they're talking about.
>>44441735
Thank you. You are a very prudent individual.
How did you come to have an interest in metamodernism?
>>44441392
>>44441735
Metamodernism is very much ingrained in the idea of absurdism; a layman's explanation can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI25easQs2k If you'd like to read more about it then I suggest reading Soren Kierkegaard's journals and Albert Camus' "The Myth of Sisyphus"
>>44441969
>You are a very prudent individual.
You're too kind; I'm the same age as you are.
>>44441969
>How did you come to have an interest in metamodernism?
I want to revolt against the constant state of deconstruction, the irony and general existential dread that is postmodernist thought while still retaining my cognitive security. I'm a staunch agnostic atheist, you see; I wanted the same sincerity that the modernists had while also having the the subversive qualities of that postmodernists. We live in the information age, why are people still hung up on being as authentic as humanly possible? Look up "New Sincerity" sometime and accuse me of being some sort of deranged hipster. :P
If there's anything the postmodernists got right though it's that certainty can quite often become the biggest mistake one can make (especially in terms of religion). An alternative form of post-post-modernist thought that you might be interested in is actually called "remodernism" which as you can guess, seeks to reinstall more modernist "traditional" and "spiritual" values within our culture. It and metamodernism are p much toe-to-toe in an effort to describe today's cultural era.
>>44441969
oh, Situationist media is often considered early metamodernist; I recently finished reading Guy Debord's "The Society of the Spectacle"; highly recommend.
