>go into desert
>discarded targets, shells and litter everywhere
Why are gun owners so selfish and lazy?
>>783506
>fastest/least-effort way to kill people
gun
>i need a way to have more leverage and dominance than everyone else
gun
that's why
truuuuu
Because they are pieces of shit who get all tingly when they shoot a gun because it is the only way to make them superior to everyone else.
How about you suck a dick OP
>>783526
Triggered gun owner?
/k/ommando here, go fuck yourselves /out/ists
>>783506
>gun owners
If they feel so afraid that they need to own a gun that also means that they're intellectually inferior. i.e. they're not smart enough o learn to respect nature.
>>783506
>>783517
Whoa there anons, no need to make sweeping generalizations. While I recognize that there are many irresponsible "gun owners" out there, there are many others that do not stand by this kind of fuckery. I pick up and pack out every shell I find while in my local /out/ spots and I'll be damned if I get lumped in with those pieces of shit.
>>783560
do i need to post the pics from your pos nuggetfests? you guys are fucking captain autismos. go dress up in girl clothes and jack off to GuP you fucking fairy.
Didn't know /out/ had bait threads
>>783562
well good anon you probably aren't the kind of person who buys/own/shoots a gun because of these reasons >>783517
however, people with those kinds of personality traits are the kinds of people who do whatever the fuck they want and don't accord respect to others (littering, road rage, etc).
that type of person with a gun is even more brash
>>783568
this board is super fucking spergy
disagree with someone and they'll tell you how they will kill you if they encounter you on the trail. this is tough guy central my friend, tread lightly.
>>783574
s/k/out/s more like it. fuck both a them boards.
>>783560
OP is not telling you to disarm, he is telling you to pick your shit up after you end larping as an operator you fat fuck
How much is brass per pound?
>>783506
>how dare people litter on BLM land, meanwhile BLM allows uranium miners to dump tailings directly into rivers.
You idiots need to pick better battles.
>>783585
Depends on the round, pistol ammo not much but some of the strange wildcats can sell for 80 dollars or more for one piece of unprimed brass.
>>783588
did your mother not tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?
>>783592
Did your parents ever teach you how to prioritize problems? Because left over brass and shells are not more damaging to the environment than uranium mines or tailings being dumped into rivers which is very common.
>>783588
Fuck /k/omrade, tag your porn.
>>783591
I'm talking about melting it down, not reloading. Firing reloads is playing Russian roulette with your fingers.
>>783601
>Firing reloads is playing Russian roulette with your fingers.
Are you retarded?
>>783598
Most people dont like my seven thousand dollar AR, in fact most people bitch and moan.
So thank you for not being most people
>>783571
Agreed. The kind of people who do this shit are usually the first ones to cry out about muh liberties whilst incessantly uploading pictures of their firearms online.
>>783597
but that's not the point of the OP. you shouldn't go out and litter just because worse things are happening elsewhere. just pick up your shit i have no idea how this is worth defending.
>>783579
Also, this...
>>783618
>but that's not the point of the OP. you shouldn't go out and litter just because worse things are happening elsewhere. just pick up your shit i have no idea how this is worth defending.
I never said I was defending it, I was pointing out that there is much worse things going on on the same BLM land, but /out/ has had a multitude of threads in the past about dem ebil gun owners yet comparatively little about an issue that is larger and more damaging to the environment people here profess to love so.
>>783615
I'm a noguns yuropoorfag so it's all pretty dank to me. One day, one day.
>>783506
>show a picture
>anecdotal story about something i saw one time
>generalization of an entire subset of society
A+ trolling, OP. You suck dicks.
>>783662
Have you never driven along a dirt road in the desert?
>>783579
Fucking kek
>>783702
this
if you don't litter you're denying future generations of archaeological knowledge of their ancestors.
what kind of heartless fuck would do that?
To their own grandkids?
>>783597
>killing kids is worse then molesting them, so lets not worry about the kiddie diddlers until we catch all the child murderers
this is how you sound. just because one problem is more sever does not negate the fact that the other is still a problem
>>783748
technically shells and brass aren't an environmental problem, so he has a point.
>>783506
>Why are gun owners so selfish and lazy?
its not just gun owners.
redencks and white trash people are generally selfish, ignorant, childish, careless and lazy
>>783758
if your car contains nothing more than brass and plastic it should be fine from an environmental standpoint.
metal is already found all over in nature and plastic is essentially inert.
>>783762
And plastic?
>>783761
its not gun owners, its lazy trashy gun owners. i go /out/ shooting, but i always lay down a tarp to catch my brass, and have a empty cardboard box i dump that shit in, i hate when people shit up a nice looking area because they are too lazy to pick up their shit
>>783764
oh, you didn't get the part where I mentioned plastic twice and pointed out that it doesn't cause environmental damage?
are you high?
>>783767
we're fine if you leave your brass.
that stuff is worth money. Someone will pick it up.
>>783517
>force stabilizer for weak and feeble who cannot simply gain strength because of medical issues
>weapon used in war
>weapon used by criminals that are likely to break into your home
Yeah, I'm allowed to have a gun. Biggest reason to carry while /out/ isn't because of animals, it's because of other people. Criminals try all sorts of fuckery to campers in the woods.
>>783775
>Criminals try all sorts of fuckery to campers in the woods.
kek
if criminals can find you you're not really in the woods.
>>783788
>you're not really in the woods
This where you camp? Because if it isn't, you are not really in the woods, car camper.
>>783775
/out/ is fearmonger af
>>783838
1: carry a tool you'll never use
2: don't carry the tool and need it 1 time
I know which one I'll choose. This isn't the difference between carrying and not carrying hairspray on a camping trip.
Gun owners like to pretend that going outdoors and/or hunting makes them "close to nature" when in reality they are the biggest threats against nature. 99% of them are hypocritical pieces of shit that would rather kill something by accident than take simple steps to protect it.
That said, people who live in a desert tend to see it as useless land. When I lived in New Mexico it was not uncommon to see trash piles, people dump whatever they don't want in the desert. The sad part is there are no consequences.
>>783597
Litter exists so it doesn't matter if we kill rhinos and snort their horns. Nature is dying anyway, might as well kill it faster.
>Same logic.
>>783753
Technically, yes they are.
>>783762
>plastic is essentially inert.
LOL
>>783866
>baseless nonsense
Why do some people here act like shitting on gun owners is okay just because they have a hobby that offends morons?
>>783859
and that has what to do with what i said? you pussies around here are afraid of every fucking thing. hence the "oh no im going camping for two days what do i bring what do i eat" and similar threads
>how do i get over being afraid of being innawoods
>how do i stop nasty criminals from taking things while i car camp
>no you cant sleep overnight at walmart tweakers will get you
>omg a spider in my tent
>nasty rapists fill all national forests
>i want to go /out/ but i'm too anxious and scared
etc
>>783506
Mine are degradable but anyway I pick up mine and I own a firearm I have dropped some here and there like anyone else but thats normal. Sometimes I drop them by accident but never leave them like this.
>>783506
I clean mine up. Not everyone does that.
>>783611
Are you?
>>783925
Not as retarded as you evidently if you think that reloading is unsafe.
>>783931
Some people don't reload to SAAMI specs though.
>Hurrrr check muh +P+P+P++++ loads here Cletus
>>783943
>what someone else does impacts your reloads
Thats some real retarded logic.
>>783878
Not shitting on gun owners, just the ones that pretend to be outdoors-men that care about nature. The opposite is usually more accurate.
>>783906
Oh look how inert this plastic is. Obviously not a problem.
Also nothing is truly completely inert. But regardless, plastic causes lots of problems with the environment that are well documented. Aside from anything with a round shape massively fucking with animal life all the time, most plastic is photo-degradable, meaning sunlight causes it to break into smaller pieces. These small pieces still take centuries to disappear, and when consumed by animals (as they often are because they can be brightly colored) they can cause lots of intestinal blockages and health problems that can only be fixed with medical treatment, which usually isn't available to wild animals that eventually die a slow and painful death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_pollution
>plastic is inert
>>783973
not ert
>>783976
Never never ert
>>783966
>>783970
you're going to need more than that pitiful handful of animals harmed by plastic.
even if it killed billions of animals that would be no effect.
It could kill trillions of animals without having any measurable effect. You have no idea how many animals there are out there dying from all kinds of other things. No clue whatsoever.
and "a slow and painful death" isn't an ecological problem, all animals die, and they all die painfully.
>generalizing
Slash your throat
>>783563
L M A O
M
A
O
>>783943
>Some people
Well, no shit hot loads are more dangerous to your hands. You dumb fuck. I've been reloading brass since I was eight, casting lead since 13. Still got all my digits. God damn goalpost mover.
>>783947
>he doesn't know that averages mean a responsible person is in just as much danger as an irresponsible one
baka
>>783943
You're so absolutely stupid you must be a Eurocunt.
>>783517
God did not make everybody equal, guns do.
Firearms are force multipliers that allow women, the weak, the disabled, the young and the old to be on the same playing field.
>>783523
>get all tingly
Have you shot guns before?
More than once?
It's entertaining but not orgasmic, unfortunately.
>>783568
While it should be goven that /out/doors axtivitoes attract some hippies, lately hipsters have started getting into hiking, vlimbing and camping since the 90's.
I'm more of tge old fashioned 1970's amwrican fisherman/hunter going /out/ on the weekends and holiday to get deer or trout, maybe just get away from the city, work or family life to relax.
>>783601
Have some confidense in your skills, just practice reloading plinking ammo a swat up on some books...if you are really unconfident, take a class.
>>783838
>fear monger
>remember to tie your family's cooler to a hanging rope or lock it in the bear box!
>uhg fucking Park Ranger fear monger
A rational preparedness for worst-case scenarios is not paranoia, it's a tradition of human logic and planning that allowed us to domesticate animals and invent tools.
You are the one that is paranoid. You are surrounded by people everyday that can make fatal mistakes or cause intentional harm and yet what you fear most are essentially hobbyists.
>>783758
You are right, we should ban cars, they do more to harm the environment than guns and kill more people every year than guns.
>>783758
Over a short period of time, your car will be over taken by nature being covered by overgrown grass, vines and othe plants.
Maybe it will become a burrow or home to small animals.
You know, just like how they sink ships and it becomes part of a coral reef.
>>783761
So are mexicans and chinese, and before you talk shit and call me racist, I live in L.A. and I 'm chinese and work at a chinese resturant. You know all the grease from the kitchen? That goes in the storm drain. Also The whole plaza is dirty as fuck chinese people litterings spitting and smoking, we do not give a fuck about you white people's environment, and te beaners we have washing dishes are not any cleaner.
So your opinion invalid.
>>783838
/out/ used to be cool, but we got taken over by /pol/ liberals and they use our board as a home base to launch raids into /k/
>>783873
Well glass breaks down and become like pebbles somebody broke a green beer bottle in my corn fueld and every year I find glass pieces every time I retill the soil and tbe shards become smaller and smoother.
Steel cans will rust up and wither apart with ye currents.
>>783958
You do realize that many famous "manly man outdoorsmen" types of Hunters and Fishermen over the years have promoted animal conservation and wilderness environment protection because tge spend mire time /out/ than anyone else and want to protect the place they love to practise their outdoor hobbies so that future generations can enjoy them as well?
>>783506
>have designated areas along back roads in the desert to target shoot
>literally less than ten of these informal "ranges" in any given vicinity
>shooting litter stays in these areas, doesn't blow away or pollute the Earth with toxic chemicals, just stays where it's dropped
I see nothing wrong with this. Is it just me? As long as the garbage is staying in designated areas, and it's shooting garbage, and the people using the area are target shooters, then who is it hurting?? If you object to these...let's call them "shell middens," but you don't object to landfills, then you are a hypocrite and probably an idiot too. All that's going to happen when shooters clean these areas up is that people are going to dump it into another big pile of trash elsewhere. What's the difference?
Guilt-tripping gun owners for leaving "trigger trash" in remote and designated, high-use by shooters, sections of the desert serves one and only one function: to leverage the government and brainwash the public to close that public land to shooting for the purpose of expanding suburbia into these sections of desert. It's not a good thing, folks. And by repeating this propaganda without understanding the ultimate purpose, you are, what Stalin referred to as, useful idiots.
>>784125
Women like the vibration from shooting guns just like with riding motor cycles.
>>784097
>he doesnt even know how reloading works.
>>784145
>Is it just me?
no.
Most of the informal ranges near me are on old mine dumps.
1. it's private property, but the owner doesn't care what people do on it.
2. It's already as polluted as a piece of land can get. No harm in adding a little brass and lead to the pile.
Regarding shooting on public land, that's perfectly legal many places. It's the litter that's the problem. But I'm with you, if they're going to litter I'd rather they picked a spot and stuck with it. Safer that way. Also easier to clean up. And easier to catch the offenders since we know where to set up the cameras.
>>783506
>Why are gun owners so selfish and lazy?
>lazy
honestly they're so lazy they almost always shoot someplace they can drive to.
apparently you're lazy enough to like hanging out next to roads as well.
>>784006
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/09/15092-plastic-seabirds-albatross-australia/
>So much plastic trash is flowing into the oceans that 90 percent of seabirds eat it now and virtually every one will be consuming it by 2050. That finding, revealed in a new study published this week, tracks for the first time how widespread plastics have become inside seabirds around the world.
...
>A recent study found a 67 percent decline in seabird populations between 1950 and 2010.
“Essentially seabirds are going extinct,” says Wilcox. “Maybe not tomorrow. But they’re headed down sharply. Plastic is one of the threats they face.”
>>784170
an ecologist understands the bird populations double and then drop by half every year.
Sometimes they disappear entirely because the birds migrate.
>Plastic is one of the threats they face
not a real one or they'd have actual numbers of birds killed by plastics
well, they do, but 200 birds killed out of 70,000,000,000 alive just doesn't have any meaning.
>>784157
These are parts of the desert that NO ONE would visit if not to shoot there. How big of a boot licking statist do you have to be to lick your lips ar extracting punitive damages for a victimless crime? Do you also support speeding tickets?
>>784170
>deserts
>washing trash into the oceans
That's not how it works.
>>784181
>How big of a boot licking statist do you have to be
I throw parties when would-be occupiers of federal buildings are arrested or shot.
I think it's funny when you break the law and get in trouble for it. And yes, I support speeding tickets.
you're not a special snowflake, you don't get to run around doing whatever you want.
>>784171
I am always amazed with the quantity of excuses ppl can throw to justify littering. It literally makes no sens to me, are these ppl from pol?
Aslo if it is right to leave pieces of plastic and metal around, I guess I can just throw most of my trash out there...is this what you support?
>>784188
Do you protest outside of landfills too? You're a nutty fucking leftist, you know that?
>don't litter in that patch of barren land where nobody ever visits except to litter
>litter in this other patch of barren land instead
why?
>because the state says so
so what?
>the state's mandates are absolute because i'm an """"""atheist"""""" and the state is my god
>>784191
Yeah, landfills are a disgrace, and we should stop it.
>nobody ever visits except to litter
Oh now you know the future.
>the state's mandates are absolute
About this particular issue, I don't see how making it worse is justified in any case.
Protip: Neither leftist nor atheist, get your muhrica shit together
>>784191
How about you fucking clean up after yourself?
<but muh statist oppression
>>783836
fuck even on that pic you can clearly see the damage humans do to the landscape.
you can go fucking nowhere to find untouched land anymore.
>>784191
landfills are designed to stop leeching of chemicals into water courses, as well as harvest useable byproducts such as methane gas produced from decomposition which can then be used as a fuel source.
As well as this it's not an eyesore like random littering, and provides a more sustainable manageable method of dealing with trash.
tl;dr you're either uneducated or a troll
>>784191
>being an atheist makes you a statist
Are you trolling or do you really think this?
>>783734
Every human being born litters. Thinking you are some special snowflake just means you are as deluded as fuck all.
>>784213
That's been the way for 1000s of years. There's no a spot of land on Earth that doesn't have generations of humans fucking with it.
Had our ancient ancestors had plastic tools, we'd be digging them up from every square mile of land on the planet.
>>783506
Because fucking casuals ruin everything
Holy shit, it's like river shitters taken to new extremes of autism.
>>783506
they oprobably thought it to be their own private spot and you come tramping through only to complain
>>783523
That never happens
>>783563
>implying that 50 or so people represent all of /k/
>>783579
I pick up my brass
>>784224
>landfills are designed to stop leeching of chemicals into water courses,
Shooting trash doesn't have any battery acid, which is what landfills mainly try to keep from leeching into the water supply.
>as well as harvest useable byproducts such as methane gas produced from decomposition which can then be used as a fuel source.
Doesn't apply to anything contained in shooting trash.
>As well as this it's not an eyesore like random littering,
I think we're talking about different subjects or probably you've never seen a real informal shooting range. It's true that sometimes informal target shooting takes place in beautiful parts of national forests, and I'd agree that these spots should really be picked up on a regular basis, but the thread is about shooting in the desert, specifically on BLM land, since that's the most common type of land where dispersed shooting is legal. I guarantee you that the only people visiting these areas are going there to either a) ride ATVs, which is destructive in itself but over a wider area, or b) shooting, which they're only doing in cleared parts of the desert with a backstop.
Literally the only people going to these desert areas where people go shooting are the people who don't mind leaving a little destruction in their wake, so I'd ask "an eyesore TO WHOM???"
>and provides a more sustainable manageable method of dealing with trash.
Define "sustainable" and "manageable." I think you are, like a typical brainwashed liberal, just repeating these as buzzwords. Shell middens in secluded parts of the desert aren't any less sustainable than your typical landfill. And how are they unmanageable? Despite what you'd like to believe, most shooters do pick up their brass shell casings, and there are quite a few shooters willing to pick up larger pieces of trash that others have left.
So, in other words, you don't have any arguments?
>>784255
If you are an atheist, describe your political beliefs and why you voted Democrat in the last election.
>>784405
Have you ever seen pics from Nuggetfest? It actually is a pretty representative sample of the kinds of Americans who post on /k/, and not in a flattering way.
>>784479
Not statist which is the main point. I am not an American and you are an idiot if you think the Republican party is not just as full of authoritarians.
>>784535
>he thinks just the republican party is made up of authoritarians
It is both parties you dumb euro.
>>784475
Maybe you should just go shoot at the landfill.
>>784538
oh anon, why would he want to shoot his grandmother's vagina?
>>784536
>not just as full
That is what I was saying, pay attention.
>>784555
It likely isnt, as people who identify as libertarians also are in the republican party.
From a philosophical perspective the republican part should have less than the democrats if they actually stuck to their parties ideals instead of going full technocrat globalist.
>don't leave your shooting trash in an area where the only other people who visit there are just going to be dropping their own shooting trash on the ground
why?
>because it's illegal!!
The outdoors community used to be about individual freedom and sovereignty. Now it's full of authoritarians who think you should go to jail if you don't enjoy the outdoors in the "correct" way. What the fuck happened???
>>783601
Dude...
>>784577
the problem is it's human nature to do whatever the fuck someone wants and not give a fuck and be selfish. so the potential is there for one or a small number of people to ruin shit for everone else. littering is an example, but things like fishermen blowing up coral reefs with dynamite and people driving 60mph in 20mph zones. so for the "better good" (i.e. pisses off a couple self-entitled people for the overall benefit of civilized society) we are forced to make regulations, laws, and punishments to stop people from being selfish. without this the world would be a gigantic piece of uninhabitable shit. in ancient times mythology and religion kept people in line. in the modern age of science nobody's afraid of god or pharoah anymore so we have law enforcement and regulations.
piss and whine all you want, people can't be trusted. we'll burn the barn down with us inside if we could get our hands on the gas.
>>784577
>What the fuck happened???
the neo-anarchists scared enough people and killed enough people that now nobody wants them around.
You don't think the law applies to you just because you're in the woods? We're going to laugh when the cops shoot you down. Those are our woods. If you want to be a jackass in the woods go buy your own.
>>784587
>it's human nature to do whatever the fuck someone wants and not give a fuck and be selfish.
That's an aspect of human nature. It's not how everyone acts all the time. And laws aren't the only things keeping people from doing bad things.
>>784587
Are you an atheist, though? Answer seriously.
>>784588
>using "neo-anarchist" as a pejorative
So, I'm right?
Also, nobody is talking about "the woods." There are a lot of people who use the woods for outdoor activities. Almost nobody uses remote areas in the desert. If you actually read the OP instead of just launching into a tirade about your feelings, then maybe you would understand what people are talking about instead of having a messy communication breakdown.
>>784593
if it was OK to cut trees down in your local state park most poeple wouldn't, but a couple people would and ruin the park. it doesn't take lots of people behaving a certain way all the time, it takes one person being a dick once. that's the whole point. if every fisherman in the pacific decided to use dynamite just ONCE out of a lifetime of fishing trips that'd be like a million dynomitings and the ecosystem would not recover. that's the whole point. people can't be trusted to just do the right thing.
>>784598
That's fine. I don't have an issue with that point. I know I jumped into an ongoing discussion. I'd like to politely bow out now because I'm frankly not super interested. Here's some flowers.
>>784598
>comparing a state park to BLM land out in the desert
Not the same thing AT ALL. Do you even understand the difference or am I just wasting my time talking to someone who is going to remain willfully ignorant about the topic?
>>783506
Navy Vet here. We throw all casings into the ocean when we do live fire exercises at sea. Just about everything is thrown overboard with exception of plastics and fuel/oil.
>>784601
those are beautiful
>>784604
What about your oil based anal lubricant?
>>784597
>So, I'm right?
about what?
you asked why usership shifted from libertarians to statists. I answered. Because radical libertarians are assholes and people are happy to see them arrested.
>Also, nobody is talking about "the woods."
Ah, you don't speak my brand of American.
What if I say "in the weeds" instead?
"the wilderness," "the wild," or "the bush?"
let me know what you prefer, o autistic rambler.
>>784608
Equating libertarians with "neo-anarchists" just tells me how much time you've actually put into understanding non-socialist viewpoints that aren't taught to you in government schools. Why should I pursue a conversation where one of the parties isn't competent to discuss the topic that has been brought up?
But to answer your question of about what: about the outdoors community being full of authoritarians. Can you not read >>784577?
As for "in the woods" vs. "in the weeds," if government land agencies don't believe that forests, parks, wilderness areas, and desert BLM land should be administered and managed in the same way, then why do you think that?
As an example, in my state, there is a wilderness area that sees a lot of use in the western part of it. The forest service charges people parking their cars along a certain road a fee to even park there for a few hours, but people using the central and eastern parts of the wilderness aren't charged any fees. There are different rules for camping and travel in the wilderness area than there are in the surrounding national forests. When you go to state parks or national parks, there are different fees and still different rules. BLM land in the desert, likewise, has its own, unique rules, allowing certain activities that are prohibited in any of the above types of areas.
What you seem to be saying is that none of these administrative distinctions and management discrepancies should exist because "it's all the wild to me," and if people recognize the above-mentioned legal distinctions, then they don't actually have a valid point because they're probably just "autistic." Is that an accurate representation of your opinion?
>>784606
Not sure, maybe you should ask your mum m8.
>>784619
>But to answer your question
Oh, of course you're right.
Authoritarians have always grossly outnumbered anarchists in the US, and they always will. Anarchists used to hide in the woods but even that isn't working anymore.
>Is that an accurate representation of your opinion?
no. I don't care about different rules in different wildernesses. I care about people that are breaking any rule in any wilderness.
It's not the activity that's the problem, it's 'your' disregard for society's rules.
we can still reach out and touch you, there is no safe haven. Going to the end of the road doesn't give you permission to do whatever you want. It's funny when people think it does. It's even funnier when those people get lit on fire and shot full of holes.
>>784619
>Why should I pursue a conversation where one of the parties isn't competent to discuss the topic that has been brought up?
you asked a question in your first post, you didn't make a statement.
a question cannot be right.
so of course when you ask a question and then ask if you're right I get confused.
but what you meant was "was the premise behind my question correct?"
you're just not smart enough to say what you mean and I'm bored enough to overlook your failings.
>>784628
>>is it accurate to say that [you don't care about different rules in different wildernesses]
>no. I don't care about different rules in different wildernesses.
U wot, m8?
>I care about people that are breaking any rule in any wilderness.
That's not a meaningful distinction. Rules exist for the sole purpose of dictating human behavior. Without people that might break the rule, the rule would be pointless.
>It's not the activity that's the problem, it's 'your' disregard for society's rules.
Oh, so you want to regulate my thoughts too? Make it illegal for right wing people to disagree with socialism? Thanks for confirming what I'd already suspected about your extreme leftist views.
>we can still reach out and touch you, there is no safe haven. Going to the end of the road doesn't give you permission to do whatever you want. It's funny when people think it does. It's even funnier when those people get lit on fire and shot full of holes.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that it's funny when agents of the state kill peaceful citizens?
>>784633
>you asked a question in your first post, you didn't make a statement.
I said "The outdoors community used to be about individual freedom and sovereignty. Now it's full of authoritarians who think you should go to jail if you don't enjoy the outdoors in the "correct" way," which was a statement.
>a question cannot be right.
I don't follow. Care to elaborate as to where you're going with this?
>and then ask if you're right
I asked "What the fuck happened???" Not if I was right or not. Linguistically, it's called a "wh-question," whereas asking for confirmation would be a "yes/no" question.
>but what you meant was "was the premise behind my question correct?"
No, I didn't.
>you're just not smart enough to say what you mean and I'm bored enough to overlook your failings.
If you're so much smarter than everybody else, then feel free to explain why you can read my thoughts and how I don't actually know what I mean.
TOP KEK, /out/ going nuts about a misunderstanding around wilderness:
for the ppl littering it's ''muh freedom to shit all other the place", like going in the woods puts you in anarchy mode and laws dont apply to you cuz there isn't anybody watching.
Like, great job out, I love this thread cuz ya know there are not so many countries with lax laws about guns, with a decent amount of english speaking bigots posting here.
Very informative about where all the trash comes from.
>>784636
>Like, great job out, I love this thread cuz ya know there are not so many countries with lax laws about guns, with a decent amount of english speaking bigots posting here.
What does this even mean? Can you reword this so that it makes sense?
>>784635
>That's not a meaningful distinction.
sure it is.
the libertarian refuses to follow rules they think are immoral, potentially negating any rule.
the statist says all rules are moral, thus denying personal agency.
the difference between the two is quite meaningful. You're an anarchist, I'm a fascist. Completely opposite ends of a spectrum.
and as you've noted, the public is agreeing more with me than you and it appears to be a growing trend.
>>784636
I also kek'd anon. I'm Merkan too but your point about this thread is spot on.
>>784636
Nice strawman. Nobody is talking about littering "all over the place" or going "anarchy mode" in the woods except those trying to misrepresent their opponents' opinions.
What I'm saying is that what actually happens is the following: there is a limited amount of land in most states where dispersed shooting is allowed. Shooters tend to self-designate specific gullies or hills as shooting areas. In my area, you can technically shoot anywhere on BLM land as long as you're far enough from a highway or a building, but that's not actually what happens. In reality, there are only ever going to be a small number of shooting areas in the vicinity, and almost no one shoots outside of these specific spots. It's not "everywhere" and it's not a big loss to the cause of parks and recreation if the area looks like a shooting range because NO ONE ELSE besides shooters even wants to go to these barren wastelands to recreate.
Here's a screenshot of a nearby desert area where I go shooting. I blocked out the place names and road number so as not to "hotspot" the area. This area is a wasteland. There are no hiking trails. There is no water. There are very few trees. The only other people besides shooters who use the area are ATV riders, and they have their own backroads that they ride on a few miles away, which don't overlap, where shooting is not allowed. You'll notice that even though it's a pretty large area of desert, you'll only ever find shooting trash in a small number of designated shooting ranges - there are five visible in this image, and only three others that are not visible.
The concept is no different than the way a landfill works. Yes, you leave some of your trash there in this area only. You do the same thing at a landfill. It's out of the way of the general public, so you won't see it unless you go looking for it. It's not hurting you that a few shotgun shells are laying around on the ground. There is no reason to get so emotional about this.
>>784640
You are all the fuck over the place, m8. The only thing I can conclude from all of this is that you aren't really thinking about what you're saying, and are instead just trying to say the edgiest and most provocative thing you can think of. I don't think you really respect my intelligence at all, or else you would have made more of an effort to be internally consistent.
>>784588
1) "The law applies to you no matter where you are and you should die if you break the law."
>>784608
2) "Laws should be uniform across all wild areas, and there should be no considerations given to specificity of administration or the needs of the locality."
>>784628
3) "I care about anybody who breaks laws in wild areas, but don't care about the law itself."
>>784640
4) "All laws are moral and should be enforced."
>>784198
>Yeah, landfills are a disgrace, and we should stop it.
Do you have a solution, or did you just come here to complain and be contrary?
>>784605
Looks like a good place to drop my garbage.
>>784640
>and as you've noted, the public is agreeing more with me than you and it appears to be a growing trend.
Antifa here. Not if I have anything to say about it.
>>784659
I am very sorry too that we don't know how to deal with our trash another way. That doesn't mean we should go rampage mode and jump to the conclusion "let's trash our land a little more, just because we are trashing it so much already right".
I don't know about you but I am a gun owner and I still always take a trash bag on hikes so I can pick up trash left by other people, both gun shells and general trash from whoever. in fact where I live there's less gun shells then general soda bottles and beer cans left by campers, why are campers so selfish and lazy? this is the amount of sense you make.
>>783615
How did you end up paying $7k for a GAP-10?
>>783506
>Why does /out/ consist of fat neckbeards who just collect shiny gear and do nothing with it?
Pretty fucking dumb generalization, right?
OP stop being a faggot. The people that leave their shells, cartridges, etc everywhere are the same fuckers that leave their campsite trash laying around.
It has nothing to do with being a gun owner. It has to do with being an asshole.
Find a new problem to bitch about.
>>784696
>That doesn't mean we should go rampage mode and jump to the conclusion "let's trash our land a little more, just because we are trashing it so much already right".
This is called a strawman argument. You are misrepresenting something that was said about a very specific set of conditions, and acting as if what was said applies to every set of conditions in the most broad way possible. It's a very intellectually dishonest way of having a conversation, and I think that I've explained my position clearly enough in past posts that all you would have to do is go back and read those posts if you actually wanted to have a decent conversation.
>>783958
www.ducks.org
www.rmef.org
www.nwtf.org
www.pheasantsforever.org
www.tu.org
www.ussportsman.org
www.qu.org
www.muledeer.org
www.goatalliance.org
>>784636
>Le 2 levels of text mee may
>barely literate epick twitter words
Speak english, mouthbreather.
>>784687
>antifa
Not even him, but you should probably go /out/ off a cliff.
Being on the opposite side of the political spectrum doesn't make you better.
>>783561
I like to shoot guns, especially with my dad and brother.
>If they feel so afraid that they need to own a gun that also means that they're intellectually inferior. i.e. they're not smart enough o learn to respect nature.
No, Brady. Just no. I pick up my casings and throw my targets out in the designated trash bins.
Lazy gun shooter =/= all gun shooters are lazy.
>>784657
>Laws should be uniform across all wild areas, and there should be no considerations given to specificity of administration or the needs of the locality."
I never said that, I just said I use the same term for any wilderness no matter what it looks like.
I'm not sure why you'd think I want uniform laws across all wilderness. That's silly.
I want uniform enforcement of laws, not uniform laws.
>>784687
>Not if I have anything to say about it.
you can say whatever you want.
you're powerless to change anything though.
>>784806
>I never said that, I just said I use the same term for any wilderness no matter what it looks like.
I don't think you understand what it means to say that. What you are strongly implying is that all wild areas are, on some level, the same. Otherwise, why use the same word for many different types of wild land? Since the distinction I pointed out in my post had to do with differences in administration between different types of public land, the natural conclusion, assuming that you were trying to be on-topic when you said that, is that your odd terminology is applicable here as well. In other words, you didn't believe that there are any meaningful differences between a state park and an area in the desert that's administered by the BLM.
>I'm not sure why you'd think I want uniform laws across all wilderness. That's silly.
>
>I want uniform enforcement of laws, not uniform laws.
This is just further illustration of how a person can draw conclusions using inaccurate or incomplete information. Just because you can't target shoot in state parks but you can target shoot on BLM land isn't because there are cops in the state parks but no cops out in the desert. It's because the laws actually vary depending on the type of area. It's legal to target shoot on BLM land, not in state parks (in general). You fundamentally don't understand this.
>>784818
>What you are strongly implying is that all wild areas are, on some level, the same.
yes, they're all wild areas.
I call wild areas the woods.
or the weeds
or the wilderness.
>why use the same word for many different types of wild land?
you just used one word to cover all wild land.
why?
it must mean that you think all wild land is the same and because you like to piss on some wild land you must want to piss on ALL wild land. Including up cliffs because that's a type of wild land.
why do you want to piss up cliffs, anon?
don't you know you'll get piss in your face?
that's sarcasm by the way, I'm copying your argument so you can hear how stupid you sound
>You fundamentally don't understand this.
so because I use one word for different types of wild land (just like you do) I don't know that laws vary on different types of land?
Keep hugging your straw man, buddy.
>>783973
They don't.
>>784850
>you just used one word to cover all wild land.
>why?
You don't get to play that card when you're arguing to call very different ecosystems, such as the desert, where there are hardly any trees, "the woods."
>I'm copying your argument so you can hear how stupid you sound
No, you're not. What you're doing is misrepresenting my argument in the form of a strawman, so as to make it easier for you to reply to, as so many other people in the thread have already done. It's pretty sad that you haven't been paying attention as these other people have been called out repeatedly. Did you expect to just slip it past me? Or are you unable to formulate an objective response that replies to my actual argument?
>so because I use one word for different types of wild land (just like you do) I don't know that laws vary on different types of land?
No, because you call the desert "the woods."
Really, all it comes down to is that you were wrong, and now you've gotten in over your head with damage control overdrive.
>Keep hugging your straw man, buddy.
What strawman? When have I misrepresented your argument? You explicitly went out of your way to point out that you call the desert "the woods." Did you not mean what you said? Do you actually find value in drawing a distinction between BLM land in the desert and a state park in the forest? If not, then shut up!
>>784855
>When have I misrepresented your argument?
you invented 'my' argument.
you're saying that since I call all wilderness the woods even if it's not actually wooded then I must not understand that you're allowed to shoot some places and not others.
despite the fact that I've told you repeatedly I'm aware of the fact. Also the fact has nothing to do with anything I've argued at all, it's just some random tangent you've gone off on by yourself.
because you have more fun inventing straw men than actually discussing what I came here to talk about- the fact that anarchists are no longer welcome in our wilderness.
a complaint you brought up, by the way.
>>784855
>You explicitly went out of your way to point out that you call the desert "the woods."
>explicitly
you'll have to show me where I explicitly said that. I may have implicitly said it but I never explicitly said it.
you're making shit up again.
>>784866
>you'll have to show me where I explicitly said that.
Here you go: >>784608
>>Also, nobody is talking about "the woods."
>Ah, you don't speak my brand of American.
>What if I say "in the weeds" instead?
>"the wilderness," "the wild," or "the bush?"
>
>let me know what you prefer, o autistic rambler.
>>784861
>you invented 'my' argument.
No. I'm inferring things about your beliefs, true. In the post you quoted, >>784657, I was trying to understand what you believe and rectify the different things you seem to be saying with each other. It may be the case that I was wrong, but it's still not a strawman fallacy.
What makes a strawman is the deliberate misrepresentation what the other person is saying FOR THE PURPOSE OF disproving it. I wasn't doing that in >>784657.
>>784877
>Here you go
hey look, I didn't explicitly say that.
>I'm inferring things about your beliefs, true
your ability to infer seems all fucked up to me.
I'm not sure how you got from "he uses one word for all wilderness" to "he doesn't know the laws vary in different parts of the wilderness."
especially when you use one word for all wilderness as well.
>What makes a strawman is the deliberate misrepresentation
fair enough. I suppose you're actually confused rather than malicious. Especially since whatever you're talking about has nothing to do with any argument I made in the first place.
>>784900
>>Here you go
>hey look, I didn't explicitly say that.
This is such a childish tactic. You called the desert "the woods" and then you went into damage control to explain why you called it that.
>b-but I never said the exact sentence "i call the desert 'the woods!'"
It doesn't matter. You showed this through your actions.
>I'm not sure how you got from "he uses one word for all wilderness" to "he doesn't know the laws vary in different parts of the wilderness."
What's the point of calling the desert "the woods," then? Is there any meaning to this or do you just not care about the meanings of the words you use?
>Especially since whatever you're talking about has nothing to do with any argument I made in the first place.
You have been so incoherent that I honestly have no idea which of your claims you're referring to.
>>784907
>You called the desert "the woods"
I called all wilderness the woods and for some reason you thought I was only talking about the desert.
which is silly, if I meant only the desert I would've said "the desert."
>What's the point of calling the desert "the woods," then?
I called all wilderness the woods, not just the desert.
>You have been so incoherent that I honestly have no idea which of your claims you're referring to
I don't actually remember making any claims, but I figured you must know of some if you think we're arguing about something.
as far as I can tell I said anarchists aren't safe in the woods and you went off for a hundred posts about how you think I don't know that laws vary in different places- like that had anything to do with what I said.
>>784912
>I called all wilderness the woods and for some reason you thought I was only talking about the desert.
>
>which is silly, if I meant only the desert I would've said "the desert."
Stop with the damage control. Nobody is buying it.
>>784907
>This is such a childish tactic
you should probably look up the word, "explicitly."
just saying.
>>784915
>Nobody is buying it.
nobody is reading it.
the only one here that cares is you.
I guess you want to feel that you're more intelligent than the people that think differently from you so you scramble their words up in your head and pretend it's their heads that are scrambled?
I don't know. I don't really care. You might just be drunk. It's hard to say.
>>784715
I slapped a scope that was worth more than it on it. That being said after I'm done building a different bolt gun it will be out on that.
>>783506
>Drive down the road
>Empty bottles, cans, fast food wrappers
Why are car owners so selfish and lazy?
You really are a special kind of stupid.
You people are all liberal, cocksucking, faggots. Drive through any place on the planet and you're going to see trash. Just because you eat vegan food and jerk off with organic lotion doesn't mean that you are the fucking almighty himself. Why don't you go /out/ and jump off a fucking cliff.
>>784964
Heh. Don't take it so personal, kiddo.
>>784948
Ah, so not so much a $7k AR as a $7k AR and scope. Fair enough.
How'd you end up with the Steiner? Does your have like 20 mils or internal travel?
>>784979
>How'd you end up with the Steiner?
Bought it used actually. As far as tracking it has 20 something mils of internal tracking and 20 on the rings.
>>784587
>we'll burn the barn down with us inside if we could get our hands on the gas.
It can't happen soon enough.
>>783753
>going through these lengths to defend littering
are you really just that fucking lazy or what man?
>>785104
I don't litter, I'm just saying that's not hazardous waste or anything.
The shot bullets actually are hazardous waste, but nobody sees those so we won't be having a thread about that.
>>783523
FOUND THE BERNIE SUPPORTER!!!!!1
(you're a pacifist coward piece of shit that could barely save your own life, nevermind another. sit in the back with the rest of the weak).
>>785133
protip: they feed you lead and patriotism so you'll volunteer to die to protect their decadence and pacifism.
you're the fool here, but they'll let you think you're the hero.
>>783906
I went on a river cruise through the aquarium when I was in Chattanooga, TN, and the aquarium biologist talked about how the police training grounds caused problems and leeched into the river. I know that's a large scale firearms example, but limited firearm use isn't as dismissable as you're making it, either.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2014/oct/10/bullets-on-the-bendlead-from-police-firing-range/269237/
/insert cry baby faggot story of when I took my rifle camping in the woods and found tons of garbage from lazy selfish hippies
This thread is a proof we sould not let muhricans /out/ of pol.
>>785140
yeah, that's kinda what I meant when I said the lead is hazardous waste but the shells aren't. But OP isn't complaining about the lead, he's complaining about the part that isn't a problem. The shells.
Not to say brass is never a problem- if you dump it in the ocean it causes all kinds of problems. But in the middle of a desert it isn't any kind of ecological disaster. It has essentially no effect on the environment there.
the same can be said for plastic shot shells. They don't produce any ecological harm out in the desert. It's clear that OP is concerned with how things look, not actual environmental problems.
>>785058
True
>>785152
Don't most ranges get mad if you police your brass?
that shit's worth $$$ they love it when you leave it.
>>785154
Depends on the range. OP is talking about shooting on BLM/National Forest land so there's no real supervision on what you do or don't do. So the libs get uppity (sometimes rightly so) about what an absolute dump a lot of people leave popular shooting areas and get them blocked off. Here in CO I don't think you're allowed to go target shooting up near Boulder anymore because all the Cali transplants bitched about loud noises on their hikes.
>>785156
up in the mountains we shoot wherever we want.
You won't just hear liberals bitching if you leave a bunch of trash around though.
I got family in Brighton, they live right by a gun range.
>>785158
I usually go out just north of Canon.
>>785161
Nice.
I usually just drive a mile or two from my house in any direction and start blasting.
>>783506
Just go on /k/ and fiend a gearqueer thread, then you'll realize what kind of people you are dealing with.
They are the type of people who will bash mainstream Seals, any woman in the military, etc. When most of them have barely served.
They dress up as some of the most autistic cheap "soldiers" ever. Even airsofters known how to dress less autistic than them.
Also
>muh ak
>muh condor
>muh ar15
>>783506
Young shooters are too fucking poor to reload them, and too fucking stupid to try and sell the hulls to someone else.
You do not need a fucking $400 bench to reload 12-Gauge, guys...
>>783506
>Go to campsite
>trash everywhere
Why are outdoors people so selfish and lazy?
This is you right now, OP.
Get a couple of these if it bothers you so much.
Kinda newfag here.
Is this bait or is /out/ really this autistic about people liking guns?
>>785279
>Go check out the worst possible general on /k/ to get a good idea of what /k/ is like
Yeah totally unbiased
>>785415
nope, people just dislike autists like /k/
and people who generally does not clean up after them, while out
>>785415
The problem is litter, and a certain type of gun owner who does this shit. It's not about everyone, every gun owner, or even guns themselves. It would be exactly the same thing if you saw a landscape littered with ciggabutts. Who the fuck do they think they are being that lazy and self-centered to just shit the place up for everyone else to look at
Also, welcome to /out/ friend. There are much more enriching threads than this one.
>>785419
I think everyone would agree with that, but the sweeping generalization in OP's post just seemed less of a genuine complaint and more of an attack.
>>785416
>go check out one of the most popular generals on /k/, to see what /k/ is like
Also, what other "quality" threads better represent /k/?
The [insert SOF] is better than this [SOF], threads?
The ar vs ak threads?
The Chris Kyle/Marcus Lutrell/etc. is a fraud threads?
>>785423
You've browsed /k/ long enough to cherry pick shit but not long enough to actually know the board.
Good luck with that.
>>785421
Yeah but he's also right.
>>785425
browsed it long enough to see that the majority of people there are just as bad as airsofters pretending to be operators. It's almost like /fit/, where a small percentage actually look decent, while the others are still falling for workout memes.
Gunfag here. I agree with op, littering is a nigger-tier habit. A rake does the job when it comes to gathering my empty shells, but it sucks that nobody else does it.
>>785432
I dunno man, I get kinda stoked when I see brass left over.
More reloading for me.
>>784687
You're the fascist now.
>go into trail
>discarded orange peels everywhere
Why are hikers so selfish and lazy?
>>784687
>Antifa here.
So you're literal fascist.
>>784790
>it-it doesnnt represent us at all !
>i swear, only the fat, lazy and autistic ones got there while the glorious /k/ommandos were home !
Keking at the delusion
>>783761
You also left out black people, native americans, indians and people from the middle east.
All of them selfish, ignorant, childish, careless and lazy.
If you're going to generalize, at least don't cherrypick.
>>784687
>antifa here
Get the fuck off my board, you corporation-funded cryptofascist globalist scum
>>784188
>are these ppl from pol?
Oh, great, an argumentum ad /pol/.
What next, calling everyone who disagrees a nazi?
Fuck off.
>>785147
Another fucking retard brings up /pol/.
No, you faggot, /pol/ has nothing to do with /out/. You're seeing a boogeyman just because someone disagrees with your viewpoint.
Go back to /b/ if you dont like that.
>>784687
Kys brah
>>785986
pretty sure orange peels turn into compost quickly, unlike brass
>>786215
I can't tell if you're trying to be ironic or not.
>>784098
Sorry, faggot; did I trigger you?
I go hunting in the Superior National Forest (Minnesota) every year. The area is logged so there are old gravel logging trails everywhere. To make the trails, logging companies used gravel pits that are dispersed throughout the forest. It's common to go shooting at gravel pits. As for shotgun shells we pick all of ours up because we reload.
>>786524
>stop leaving lead everywhere you crusty cunt
So you are so autistic you expect people to go dig up shot bullets?
Given this board that actually doesnt surprise me at all.
>>783506
Honestly, it's a bad Apple situation. There are limited places to shoot, so many people go shoot there. Every do often you get a group of ignorant hicks that shoot a shit ton of ammo and leave(same types that leave the washer and dryer there because they don't want to pay to discard it). If most shooters following them will pick up shells around them, then hicks come back. Don't judge the whole by the assholes.
Just clean it up lol. Leave a sign saying pick up your brass faggots, or pick it up yourself, it's free brass. It's worth something, and if not it means you have an excuse to get into reloading whilst cleaning up the environment. What is wrong?
