>serious question
I get that there are far more effective defenses against bears than a knife, but if it comes down to you being mauled and a knife is within reach, what would be effective? What if you were unable to strike the face: how large of a knife would you need to effectively puncture the skin and into the rib cage?
>>762440
> what kind of knife?
A fucking big one.
If you are ever in the situation where you need to stab a bear with a knife you are fucked, but you'd need something at least 6 inches long, preferably 8 or 9. The blade shape would need to be designed for stabbing/penetration- a fairly narrow blade shape or at least one that tapers down significantly toward the point. To make penetration easier it would be better to have a sharpened false edge on the top of the blade as well. I guess i just described a traditional bowie.
>>762452
So a dagger
>>762490
A dagger wouldn't be as good as a bowie because they usually have a pretty narrow blade, and you want to be doing as much damage as possible, and a bowie would beat a dagger in this.
Yeah you'd want a Bowie. Point can get in between the rib and blade is large enough to cause damage once it's inside. Hopefully it never gets to that point though.
Bowie has my vote as well. It's made for killing at arm's reach. It's just the right size and design to be wielded dangerously by an average size/strength man and is designed to inflict deep punctures with minimal effort.
>See Also: Vidalia Sandbar Fight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbar_Fight
>>762440
>defenses against bears
>posts pic of black bear
Harsh language and small stones will scare off a black bear
Most people wouldn't survive a fight with a coyote and here you are discussing knife fights with bears. Jesus /out/ never change.
>>762532
>fighting
>coyote
>implying you don't just grab the front legs and yank in opposite directions
Anglo Saxon Seax is the only option.
>>762549
gladius is far superior.
>>762549
>Using inferior shape and steel
>>762440
Once, many years ago, I visited a place called the Ulster American folk park.
The park is not in America, it's actually located in northern Ireland, and is dedicated to the history of Ireland and early Irish settlers in America.
I recall our guide telling us about life on the frontier, mountain men and all that little house on the prairie stuff. Fascinating to my young Irish ears.
The part that really stuck with me was when he said the reason why people carried big, long bladed knives was in the event of a bear attack, they would hold the knife in both hands, point out, with the pommel against their breastbone, and when a bear attacked and 'bear hugged' the knife would pierce it's chest. The bear itself would provide the force to drive the knife deep.
He said the knives were always big because a large knife was needed to reach the heart, small knives were not enough to kill.
I believed this unreservedly as a child, now that I am older I am somewhat skeptical of this working exactly like that since bears are such massive and powerful animals, but if the bear hug is a bear's main attack, it's at least plausible.
I have never actually seen a bear attack anything so I can't be sure if bear hugging is really a thing or if they swipe with paws or bite first, can anyone clarify? How does a bear usually attack?
>>762521
Can confirm, once yelled "FUCK OFF BEAR" at one and it just looked at me like "y-you too..." and ran off.
>>762532
A fit adult man will win a fight with a single Rottweiler 9/10 times. Dogs pretty much have to be drugged to fight to the death, and they really only have one weapon and one way to apply it.
A small pack of determined coyotes would be bad news though, and two rottweilers would be game over.
>>762521
this. black bears are fucking nothing.
A knife vs grizzly bear is instant death.
>>762573
>A fit adult man will win a fight with a single Rottweiler 9/10 times
Yeah nope.
>>762579
yeah but we're not discussing the likelihood of a bear attack or the propensity of bears to attack in general. it's just a hypothetical.
also, black bears attack people much more frequently that grizzlies, but with a much lower death rate, even though attacks are super rare anyway
>>762580
Yeah, you will. They're big, but you're bigger. I have a rottweiler, and while they're tough, they're not terminators. Anybody fighting one is going to get SEVERELY fucked up but you stand a good chance of surviving without one of your hands.
>>762589
>They're big, but you're bigger
Me on the right.
>>762497
a dagger is exactly the best tool to kill anything you dumb shit. it was literally made for killing things. even armored things. your pussy little knives don't have shit on the dagger when it comes to killing shit.
>>762590
Okay, a 6' man who lifts 1/2/3/4 will survive a fight with a single rottweiler.
>>762596
nah a simple suburban dad who went biking with his son killed a rottie because it attacked his son he didn't had nothing he choked the dog to death.
that's what happens when animals are too dumb to know their place.
>>762561
>pommel against breast bone
That shit will impale you just as it will the bear
>>762589
This. Dog may be able to do damage to limbs during the initial confrontation, but a human is stronger and capable of killing a dog long before the dog can do lethal damage. All a dog can really do is bite. You can bite and also grab, you can wrestle, you can kick, literally pick it up and throw it. Even 'giant' dog breeds like Irish wolfhounds or st bernards are not as large and strong as an adult man.
You can choke it to death like Wool Smoth does in I am legend, or you can gouge it's eyes out with dem opposable digits, then deliver your badass quip:
>top of the food chain, bitch
>>762600
I would imagine the hands holding the knife would apply outward force to try and prevent this, rather than letting the breastbone take it all. I think the breastbone was more the recommended location to hold the knife rather than being an active part of this maneuver.
>>762440
>what would be effective
cheap alternative to rare expensive collectibles would be a combat knife.
they are not made for bear especially but have the blade length to reach vitals if you know where they are. bears without fur aren't all that big. the heart and lung is very close to rib-cage from the front. learn where the heart is located it will quickly stop an attack.
>>762610
Without pushing back and just letting the bear fall on you, it would probably be in upwards of 1-2k psi on your sternum with a somewhat blunt metal object. I dunno, man, shit wouldn't be good in my opinion.
>>762603
>the real world
also stop jacking it to hideous skanks
>>762628
so basiccally on a bear the heart is almost on top of the lungs not in the middle like at a human.
aim for just a few inchunder the armpits int the middle. stab multiple times if you can or twist the blade around.
you can puncture the lungs fairly easily and cause fatal bleeding that takes it in a minute if you stab the sides above the belly.
>>762630
>being this mad
The average adult male human would kill any dog in a 1 on 1 fight. This is not negotiable.
The real question is, why does this upset you so?
>>762629
We can assume pushing back would be part of it, but thats still working under the assumption a bear will try to bear hug as the primary attack.
Do bears attack in that way most of the time?
>>762440
What you want is a knife with a 7-9 inch blade, preferably on a 7 foot or longer pole.
Also known as a spear.
Just buy bear spray it does the trick.
>>762783
No because that's no fun. Manlets here are discussing how to kill a bear with just a knife and courage.
Ever see a couple of cats fight? They scratch and claw with their paws and feet at a million miles an hour while biting. That's how black bears fight and just as fast. You will die.
>>762573
>A fit adult man will win a fight with a single Rottweiler 9/10 times
No. This is so wrong.
>>763165
I seen a documentary where two rotties were viciously attacking a mother and child (IIRC) and by the time a cop got on scene a neighbor was smashing the dogs with a steel crowbar and it was having zero effect so the cop shot the dogs and he said even after 4-5 rounds the dogs didn't respond to the bullet wounds. The dogs weren't sick, they were just whipped into an attack frenzy and riding on adrenaline.
I would not fuck with a blodthirsty dog. I'll take my chances running or climbing a tree or hopping into a shopping cart or something.
>>763165
You lay on your back with feet towards dog while kicking.
>paperboy when kid
>>762589
>>762603
Listen to yourselves -
>can do damage to limbs during initial confrontation
>may lose a hand
But then you can grab and wrestle this dog, with your progressively more and more damaged limbs. Right.
Your two best weapons against a dog are kicks and throws if it's got a collar on. If you can "throw" it it's probably because it's already chomped down on your hand or arm. If you did manage to toss it off you, that dog is going to be back on you in absolutely no time. Once you're on the ground, you're in serious trouble, period.
>>763178
Just don't bother. He was actually answering to one of my posts. When he wrote "can do damage to limbs", I just didn't care anymore
These kids don't even know where arteries are and run, nor the importance of blood preassure.
>>763184
That's what anime and lack of outdoors activities has done to them. Millenials believe we are ikea furniture
>>763184
>>763190
i wrestled with many dogs.
sometimes we try to catch strays if we can trap them i often go for it with my bare hands (well gloves). not that they can't bite right through the gloves i had near misses a few times. punctured the glove but missed the finger.
the thing is the dog has usually about zero chance to bite you. they are fighting for their lives because they don't know we want good for them. so i know how strong they can get and where i can leverage them nevertheless.
if i meet a very feisty dog i throw a cloth/blanket on it before wrestling it to the ground and collar it. some of them are better fighters than others.
but still a dog has about zero chance in hell against a grown man. sure there are exception.
>>763316
>sure there are exception.
and i mean here the guy not the dog. some men are just too much of a pussy.
>>762827
>That's how black bears fight and just as fast.
no you retard bears don't fight like cats, but they are very very good at wrestling. i was surprised to see how much technique they put into it and how quickly they regain balance.
they are good. cats are way better tho in the same weight range i would fight a bear a hundred times before a big cat.
>>762452
>not carrying a gladius and scutum with you on every hike just in case a bear attacks
>not reenacting a great Roman battle by fighting the bear off after it ambushes you like the filthy gauls
Do you niggas even hike?
>>763170
yeah well the difference between 1 dog and 2 dogs is like off the scale. a single dog is doable more of them is fucking lethal. rotties are hard ass but they are not the most dangerous breed by far. too bad they have this bad reputation they are excellent work dogs that can really multitask: herd, protect, haul a sled or cart.
many work dogs are prone to mental issues when kept as a pet and not exercised properly.
>>763178
If you think you're too weak to fight a single dog with your bare hands that's something you need to fix, maybe start lifting. Or wait a few years, when you're an adult you'll be stronger and bigger unless you have shit genes.
Meanwhile, for the grown up people, any man of average strength and size would be more than a match for a single dog.
This is a fact.
Glock 20 in 10mm, loaded with buffalo bore or Underwood or extreme perpetrator rounds is what I carry in bear country. Fuck trying to knife fight a bear.
>>762440
>far more effective defenses against bears than a knife
All you should ever need.
>>763316
So you're wrestling a dog that's trying to get away, not trying to kill you, after you've thrown a blanket over you.
Totally the same thing as a predatory attack.
>>763823
It's great that you wrestled someone's hyperactive pet once and now you think you can go toe to toe with police dogs and timber wolves. Really, it's cute.
I bet you also watched a kung fu instructional video on trapping techniques and now you're ready for a title shot in the UFC. You're just as strong as those guys, if not, maybe you should start lifting or something.
>>763823
You are retarded.
>>764714
A police dog isn't trying to kill you, and if its handler doesn't back it up and you fight hard enough, yeah, you have good odds of running it off. They do well at keeping people from running off or causing chaos in mobs because nobody wants to get bitten, but if you make peace with getting bitten and don't freeze up when the dog comes at you it's good odds you can put a beating on it.
>>764714
>making wild extensions of initial claim
>comparing the difficulties of fighting one's own species to the difficulties of fighting a smaller weaker anatomically different animal
>implying you can't overpower an animal half your weight despite advantages of opposable digits, 4 limb grappling ability, superior strength and intelligence
Seemingly not intelligence or strength in your case, but that's something for you to work on. Meanwhile for the average and above person, single doge is no problemo.
Why this upsets you so much I haven't the foggiest. Maybe try self improvement rather than trying to convince others they're as weak as you?
>>764730
>can't refute fact
>ad hominem
It's amazing that this is even a debate. Man > dog by virtue of almost everything that counts in a fight. It's nothing to get so butthurt over.
>>764879
You are retarded.
>>764897
I'm right friend. Don't fight it, embrace it.
>>764708
dogs don't predatory attack humans.
frankly 90% of the dog "attacks" happen because the dog is scared and feels cornered or otherwise threatened.
so if you think a dog only tries to get away and not rip you apart if you catch it you don't know shit about dogs.
>>764879
it seems to me that people who are lethally afraid of dogs and think of them as some bad ass killing machines get awfully butt-frustrated when you implicate they are fukken pussies.
>>765309
I used to be a Fedex driver and was bit/attacked more times than I can remember. I'm well aware of what a dog can do to you and it happens in an instant.
If you think you are some badass who is impervious to a dog attack I seriously doubt you have ever been truly attacked by a strangers dog.
>>765308
Kid you srs? Dogs attack people all the time, even in predatory ways. Do you even google available?
>>765322
>If you think you are some badass who is impervious to a dog attack
noone is, but the dogs lethality really exponentially increases with their numbers. one dog is not that bad news pretty easy to handle for most humans including children. and i do have more experience with dogs than most they are not that bad they have nothing on cats or bears when it comes to being dangerous to fight.
>>765326
>even in predatory ways
you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. and no. that's rare as fuark. unless you are talking about literal wild dogs.
>>765326
>Predatory acts by dogs upon humans have occurred, but many such incidents were the result of human misconduct. Guards such as Irma Grese often set dogs upon live prisoners in Nazi concentration camps with the dog killing the victim and partially devouring the corpse.[13] Perpetrators of this method of murder were often executed as war criminals.
there you go dogs specifically trained and encouraged to hunt and kill humans might do it under the right circumstance but that's about it.
>>763316
Most dog scuffles aren't going to be when you are deliberately going after a dog and are prepared with equipment. Try it totally unprepared and surprised when it comes at you from behind.
>>762589
lol most rottweilers weigh like the average human male. leave alone a fucking pitbull can ravage you without an affort you dumb fag.
>>765369
>lol most rottweilers weigh like the average human male
you mean the average young nubile jailbait right
50kg is no weight for a man.
>>762440
you can only kill a bear with a knife if you are a) albertan or b) russian
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11/01/fraser-graham-kills-grizzly-bear-knife_n_4194910.html
>>765676
more like you can only kill a big bear with a knife if you are lucky and have balls of steel.
anyone can kill the small and black ones.
>>765309
Thank you. You get it. Bitches think dogs are unstoppable terminators, when in fact individual dogs suck, which is THE REASON THEY NEED TO HUNT IN PACKS. Do these people think dogs are pack animals for fun? Lone dogs in the wild have to scavenge rather than hunt because they won't have enough success hunting to survive.
Even a wolf, arguably the most vicious of canines, will average less than 100lbs, compared to an average man of say 180. When it comes to a shoving/dragging match, that wolf is always going to be second place.
>hurrr once a wolf was found heavier than that
Men are also often found heavier than 180, the biggest man ever would dwarf the biggest ever wolf. Arnie would straight up murder the 195lb world record wolf.
The fact that we have two upper limbs and both operate independently is also a factor when going against a creature that has one mouth and can bite one thing at a time.
>>766571
>Men are also often found heavier than
260lb here i meet bigger guys every day that make me feel small.
>>762440
Black bears probably won't attack you. Just stand up, yell, etc. Throw rocks if necessary
Brown bears, you need bear mace. If they do attack, you might be better off playing dead than fighting. I've heard most severe injuries from bear attacks are where the victim fought back, and if you play dead and cover your head/neck, you'll probably just get minor injuries. Not sure if a knife gives you better odds though
>>762440
jam your arm down his throat and cut his shit all up, fuck trying to stab through the ribs
>>766733
entirely situational.
if it's territorial or defensive attack play dead is your best bet.
if it's predatory then you just served you up as dinner.
>>766733
>Black bears probably won't attack you. Just stand up, yell, etc. Throw rocks if necessary
You don't even need to do that unless they're posturing. Otherwise you just need to talk softly and stand tall. Let them know your'e not food and they won't give a shit and will wonder off.
>>762440
Here, you might find this educational
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6eNK1O-RWw
>>766820
yes and the angry sounding sounds they make is often just a warning for the little ones that it's time to go so don't shit your pants and stand still take a posture like you own the place.
>>762580
Confirmed beta. Lone dog killing a man? Come on son try harder.
>this thread
>implying
Most of you woulf shit their pants right on if too close to a wild bear, and the rest woulf get mauled and teared apart upon ridiculously trying to stab its organs.
I mean fantasy is nice but come on
>>770094
>Most of you woulf shit their pants right on if too close to a wild bear
i would give good money to try it out.
Just run faster than the person with you!
>serious question
I get that you should run away from any man that stands and looks at you suspiciously, but if it comes down to you getting cornered would you be able to kill a man in a 1v1? I hear they are like 10x weaker than us but I also hear a loud *BOOM* and stuff that they look at dies what the fuck?
>eatin clovers
>*BOOM*
>holy shit!
>walk towards it because I'm curious
>some man killed a huge ass buck somehow
>he leaves all the good parts on the ground
>free food
>>771156
Kek
>>771156
git gud
Fucking black bears, I swear.
>>762561
That was the typical thing for spear hunting bears (placing the pole against the ground sans chest) and letting the best fall on it from standing or attacking.
Frontiersmen didn't carry Bowie knives (usually), instead they typically carried a early French knife that we get the modern day "butchers" knife from.
>>771754
bears don't attack standing up like in the movies anon. it's more like a truck hitting you at 45 mph.
bears stand up when they try to determine what threat you pose to them or what the hell are you exactly it's a nervous move right before they turn tail and run.
>>762440
You don't need a knife, boy. Only friendship.
just shoot it in the ass with a lamp
