Dear sc/out/s,
I'm an /out/ newb who has been lurking for a while with the desire to get back out into the wilderness and I've finally decided to begin taking those steps. It is for that reason I'm coming here to ask you about a topic I've yet to learn about here while lurking: the specific uses of axes & folding saws.
At a first glance ( I know I'm missing something, sorry if I ruffle some feathers ) it seems like they both do many of the same things. An example of this would be a small axe or folding saw being able to fell/process a small tree or log to help you build fire or shelter but I get the feeling the uses of these items are not always interchangeable. How do you determine when to use what for the tasks you encounter in the field and who makes good product? I know Opinel and Bahco are /out/ approved along with SOG who makes both axes and saws.
On an unrelated note can anybody tell me how SOG's backpack's are?
saws can't split, axes can.
saws can fell a tree but so can axes or even a knife if you attach a substantial lanyard and use that as a handle while swinging the knife (but keep a finger or two on the bottom of the knife handle).
>>745269
Fair enough. Any decent brands I should be looking at?
Don't listen to this lanyard cuck, and
don't buy everything at once. Get a knife and go have fun. when you need a bigger fire, get an axe. Spend less time here and more time there.
>>745323
Wranglercuck recommends this $20 axe, which is actually pretty solid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_EoTTcdJE
Hipsters will recommend the GB cuck axes: http://www.amazon.com/Gransfors-Bruks-Small-Forest-Axe/dp/B000WIROX6
You should ignore both and go to a flea market and buy a Plumb, Keen Cutter, Council Tool, or any other old American axe company at a fraction of the price for the same if not better quality.
Just buy an old axe somewhere for nothing, sand down the wood and soak the head in vinegar and it's as good as new.
You only want a sharp axe if you're felling a tree. If you're just splitting logs then a blunt axe is actually going to work better than a sharp axe as a sharp axe will constantly get stuck and not fully tear the log in two.
Honestly, you're just gonna be walking around finding dead trees, so just take a folding saw and then baton the dead logs with a cheap knife. Axes are kinda useless for light camping.
>>745485
This
Don't fall for the memes OP
>>745255
Personally, I've got an estwing hatchet. Model ebdba double bit. I changed up the edges, I recommend anyone getting this axe for camping do the same. One bit is ground keen and sharp, for hewing. The other bit has a fatter grind, for splitting. The whole thing weighs 38 ounces, comes with a sheath so you can put it on your belt, attach it to molle, whatever. I got the tacticool black finish because I'm a faggot like that. The rubber grip is nice, and I like the fact that the whole thing is one solid forged piece of steel. 8/10, would buy again. The only shortcoming I've found is that the handle reverberates a bit more than I like on hard woods.
>>745496
Yeah I guess that's the trade off for a handle that lasts almost indefinitely.
>>745485
>You only want a sharp axe if you're felling a tree. If you're just splitting logs then a blunt axe is actually going to work better than a sharp axe as a sharp axe will constantly get stuck and not fully tear the log in two.
This is a meme perpetuated by people that are too lazy or ignorant to maintain their tools.
>>745602
No, he's right, a splitting axe doesn't need a sharp apex to split effectively, the work is done by the cheeks of the bit not the edge.
Can anyone recommend a good tomahawk.
Preferably one that is as good at splitting wood as it is scalping railroad workers?
>>745625
>No, he's right, a splitting axe doesn't need a sharp apex to split effectively, the work is done by the cheeks of the bit not the edge.
Before an axe can split by wedging apart the wood you have to initially penetrate it. A sharp axe does this better as it cuts in between the grain instead of crushing an area the width of the apex as with a blunt axe. Once you reach the depth where the profile of the axe takes over the edge is irrelevant, however a sharp edge will of wasted less energy leaving more left to split the wood. All I can say is take a blunt splitting axe, sharpen it and see if it goes any easier.
>>745356
Where would you get an axe at the flea market?
>>745269
stay in wilderness school nigger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOXU0rrqOM
>>745356
Got an amazon link on the wrangler axe?
>>745651
Shit. I just got gud.
>>745638
If you're splitting dry hardwood you can initiate cracks with a sledgehammer if you want, the axes purpose is to leverage weak points in the natural grain of the wood not to try to cut it, that's asking for more work. Once you've split enough dry, hard wood this becomes abundantly clear, if you're talking green wood I would agree but I never split green wood if I can avoid it, better off leaving it to dry.
>>745690
>the axes purpose is to leverage weak points in the natural grain of the wood not to try to cut it, that's asking for more work.
The only way an axe is is going to cut the wood is if you don't hit it straight with the grain. A splitting axe by design will straight splitting immediately, you can see by the fact that the edges of the wood are rough and uneven, if the axe had cut instead of split they would be smooth.
A blunt axe on the other hand will show crushed wood where the axe hit which is wasted kinetic energy that could of been used to carry the axe deeper had the axe been sharp.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/sharp-maul-vs-dull-maul.215441/
![185[3].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2K56cKp.jpg "185[3].jpg")
>>745752
A splitting maul is a very different animal to an axe, the heads are super heavy in relation to their bit width and they're generally reserved for knotty wood you wouldn't tackle with an axe, and they're designed to be buried into the block you're trying to split, which is exactly what you try to avoid with an axe, alternatively you'd use wedges but honestly if you're cutting firewood any bit of wood which needs wedges to split isn't worth the time taken to split it.
I've been splitting wood for near 20 years, the apex of the axe gets dressed at the start of wood cutting season if it needs it and re-dressed if it gets damaged other than that I never touch it, if you sharped the edge of your axe regularly you're going to be re-grinding your convex and cheeks regularly too to maintain your grind pattern and your axe bit is in for a much shortened life.
I'm not trying to convince you to run your axe dull, I'm saying other anon is correct, a dull axe is not outperformed by a sharp axe in dry hardwood splitting, unless the wood is knotty where a dull axe is more likely to bounce(IMO preferable) and a sharp axe will bite and stick, if you bounced then you need to re-think your block and attack it from another point and work at the cracks which always form in dry hardwood. Splitting in this manner isn't an effort in brute force, it's application of force in the right place and expending minimal energy to finish the job.
If you ever come to Western Australia post a thread on /out/ and I'll take you out and show you a dull axe splitting some of the hardest wood in the world(Wandoo, Salmon Gum, Rasperry Jam and Tuart are some of the local woods I cut) They're murder on your chainsaw but absolutely amazing to burn, cleaning your flue is a non issue burning woods like this.
The bit on the right is an example of what I look for in an axe grind, I would run it slightly sharper than that but not a whole lot.
>>745646
What? They're all over the place
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=666276
>>745652
https://www.smkw.com/marble-s-camp-axe
>>745646
It's mainly rusty heads with beyond salvageable handles being sold, you'll need to give it a good soak in vinegar, regeind and resharpen and rehaft but you can find very good deals if you know what to look for.
>>746158
Plus old American steel will be generally superior to everything but the most expensive of modern steels since most stuff nowdays is mass produced cheap shit. You'd have to get into the $300+ range to buy comparable product.
>>746171
Is there any modern steel that isn't either hipster swede premium or lead-laced Chinashit?
>>746174
Not really.
I bought a Plumb boyscout hatchet similar to this at a flea market a few months ago for $12. The handle is kinda short compared to modern hatchets so I might put a longer one on it.
>>746174
Craftman sells decent American made heads but the QC is non existent, I dug through a bin of axes and the edges were either non existant, chipped or poorly ground at best, the handles were also complete garbage with wood putty filling gaps sometimes. This was a while ago so they might have upped it but I somewhat doubt it if the recent reviews are any indication. Marbles also sells decent ones. See >>746149 A good resource is http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/search/label/Axes you might not agree with everything he says but he gives decently unbiased reviews of axes and hatchets and goes into detail of what he likes and doesn't. Also lists price at the moment of publication so that's nice to tell where about to buy.
Where to get good whetstones/waterstones for axe sharpening?
>>745255
If you're not going to be felling trees, then just get a folding saw. If you're looking at a balance of weight vs utility, you'll find folding saws a better choice. When you're camping you're not going to be cutting up entire trees to use for a fire designed to last just for one evening.
>>747074
800 grit - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005OL3N/
1200 grit - http://www.amazon.com/King-Deluxe-Medium-Grain-Sharpening/dp/B0016VE6D4/
6000 grit - http://www.amazon.com/King-6000-Grit-Whetstone-S-1/
or
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Y75WZUW?psc=1
Hey /out/
Was looking for a hatchet for a bug-out bag and found pic related ( spiked ) being used by an entertaining mall ninja ( see below ) to decent effect. Would this actually be a decent choice for a bug-out bag or would I be better with a traditional wooden-handled axe/hatchet?
Vid related; Mall Ninja w/ Kangee T-hawk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62vvxDNnL10
>>748028
Get a traditional hatchet.
For something to play around with for shits and giggles maybe but it doesn't have a place in a bag you actually plan to use, I got one as a gift and I only use it on the rare occasion the person goes camping with me to spare their feelings. Balance is off becasue of the full tang and there isn't enough weight at the head to bite into wood properly and there isn't enough thickness to be at all decent for splitting and it tends to drive all the vibration from the wood into your arm like a tuning fork, it works but not particularity well or comfortably.
If you feel the burning need for something tactical and stabby get a trench knife.
I bought a pair of Silky blades for dirt cheap but realize I have no idea how to make a handle set, any ideas or tips? I have a dremel and a file set.
>>745356
>Council Tool
>old American axe company
>legit they still make fucking axes the same god damn way they always have, though the newer ones use even BETTER steel.
>2016 bro. lrn2google
>>748172
Forgot to mention that the saw itself is no longer being made, hence the dirt cheapness of the replacement blades
>>748185
do you care if it needs to fold or not? it looks pretty easy to build just a handle for it, if you don't care about it folding.. lol
>>748192
I thought about just getting a chunk of maple, bolting/ epoxying the blade on and making a sheath though I want the option of folding but beggers can't be choosers, I guess
>>748194
imo. I just googled it, it didn't even fold to begin with, the blade just came off. so yeah just make a handle.
>>748198
Huh, I saw the latch illustration and assumed...
Off to scrounge up bolts and maple, thanks!
>>745496
>mfw the leather washers on my estwing started rotting off
I ended up molding a new handle on it in polyurethane. I thought about doing what Jimmy DiResta did, and make a handle out of wood, but decided it was too much work for a $30 hatchet.
>>747074
All you need is a mill bastard file. No point making it shaving sharp, since it'll bend the edge over on the first strike.
>>748231
>leather washers on my estwing started rotting off
Yup, I was afraid of that happening; that's the main reason I went with the blackticool one. Rubber handle grip.
>>745255
My vote would be for a hatchet over handsaw. You can process wood with it which is handy. Handsaw would be a useful tool for getting tree limbs cut down to make a shelter.
Are you really gonna be cutting down trees when you're out?
Start with a knife and when you start to develop new bush skills buy the tools to necessitate those skills.
>>745752
Have you ever split wood for extended periods of time? Cause using a sharp axe would be a cunt. Also; all of the splitting wedges we use are pretty dull and they were bought that way.
>>745255
Also do you really plan on cutting trees down when you're out? Carrying a full size axe is a lot of extra weight and space. A small hatchet and a good handsaw will do good. Though I've never used a folding saw I'd say spend the money and get a silky. If you treat that thing well the blade will last a long time as long as you're using it properly. On a side note wear gloves until you're pretty competent with a handsaw. I use those fuckers daily and it sucks repelling out of a tree after working an hour with a bloody hand for an hour. I've cut myself just putting them back in their sheaths and it is not fun.
>>748172
>Silky ginga
>>745638
I think a splitting axe should be just sharp enough because if it has a super keen razor sharp edge you run the risk of chipping it while splitting through hard or knotty wood
>>745808
Is Rasperry Jam an actual name for a tree?
>>747560
From what i hear King brand stones are a bit too soft and will wear too quickly because the weight of the head etc and that Chosera are preferable for axe sharpening.
>>748493
>Chosera
they are butthole expensive. I would just get norton.
>>748556
Shit i meant Naniwa abrasive not chosera but yeah they are expensive but they do have some more "basic/simple" models that aren't too expensive but i can't speak for their quality as the only stone i have is a $3 combo stone, a fallkniven DC4 and 2000 grit sandpaper and that takes care of everything
>>748566
Do you mean these?
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Naniwa-Sharpening-Stone-New-Super-Stone-P551C4.aspx
>>748570
This will be the best option, while not breakign the bank.
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/3-Stone-Naniwa-Traditional-Set-with-6000-Grit-P566.aspx
>>748238
Well, the thing's at least 30 years old, and has spent a lot of that time sitting in the back of my truck. Add in the times it's been left out in the rain, the time I dropped it in a lake while canoeing, and the fact that I never resealed or oiled the leather, and it's surprising it's lasted as long as it did.
>>748570
I think these are the same as one's i was looking at though i found a 3k grit for 27eur
>>746195
Is that a good axe head? I don't know nothing bout no steel.
>>748491
It's the common name, generally just called a Jam, it's a species of Acacia and the name comes from when you cut/turn it.
Anyone ever sharpen their folding saw with a three corner file?
Would you mind sharing your technique?
>>748172
You literally have the diagram to make the handle right there in the pic, like literally.
>>750484
I literally don't have metal forming tools or experience. Like literally.
I also didn't understand why there was a honkin' hole in the blade, I thought it was a folder becasue of that. Going to just make a sheath and epoxy a handle, 4 inches of space isn't worth trying to make a removable handle for me.
>>748299
I found one in my gramps shed, does any one know what brand it is? google let me down, there seems to be an C.H 500 inside the metal.
>>751746
I had a look about and would wager it has something to do with Collins, since they produce axes and the crown is their insignia.
>>751775
I live in The Netherlands so that could be a sign?
Its a small hatchet.
>>751782
its definatley a Carl Helsper, based on makers mark, and not a collins company like the oldfactory just a few miles from my house used to make
>>751788
Thanks anon.
>>745255
Is dat opinel good?
>>745269
>attach a substantial lanyard and use that as a handle while swinging the knife (but keep a finger or two on the bottom of the knife handle).
r u kiddin me
>>745485
wrong ,a dull axe will shear off if you hit too close to the side while a sharp axe will bite,dull tools are dangerous tools.
>>748937
What is stabil?
>>754336
Thanks for the information. I think i have enough information about this axe for now and its an old axe as far as i know.
Anyone carry a 26" axe while out?
I've been looking at the Wetterlings Outdoor axe (#118) But for a few ounces more, I could just carry a Scandanavian Forest Axe (#121) that is more capable.
I've also heard that longer axe handles have a tendency to break more. What does /out/ think? Is the 20" axe good to go?
>>755101
If I'm using an axe seriously then it's always a 650-700mm handle, depending on head weight, which equates to about 25-27"
Sup, I'm done with axes. Most of my /out/ buddies have axes but no one carries a saw.
My Bahco is on it's last legs so am buying pic related. Fold down 21'' bow saw. Yas.
>>755110
Just ordered it. 60£ but got 15% off with forum discount.
>>755101
I carry the Husqvarna forest axe and i've carried both a 34cm hatchet and a 50cm axe before and i always go to the axe unless i'm going to carve a lot then i'll take a hatchet in addition to my axe. 26" is a great length and you can't go wrong with it, i've had mine for a year and even after hitting the shoulder on ash accidentaly 3 times a few days ago there's little damage and the handle is still going strong
>>746313
>>746149
>>745356
>>745652
Wranglestar did that video a long time ago. After that, the axe was perennially sold out. Now it's back.
So two things to keep in mind. First the price is much higher than it was due to increased demand. Second, and much worse, is that at least on Amazon, all the newest customer reviews talk about terrible quality control. Handles not matching the grain of the wood, breaking, misalignments, not properly seated in the axehead, etc.
It seems to me that after Wranglestar's review, demand shot up, and they lowered quality in an effort to ramp up production enough.
