Post your palace
Looks nice OP, real cozy.
I would probably never do this because I don't have private land or acces to areas in which making such shelters wouldn't be a form of littering.
>>709193
Its googled pic sorry :( i will make my own in about 2 weeks when i will have free time from work just wanna check some 4chan masterpiece designs :D
>>709188
>pic
I really hope that is all dead fall or that the person who chopped all those trees down turned them all into woodworking stuff that isn't going to just rot in the middle of the forest.
I want to build one like this. It seems relatively simple in design and would suit my needs perfectly.
>>709188
If we're talking long term then I'd want something I can get in and close the door. Especially days when it's just to miserable to be outside.
>>709224
go drown you fucking tree hugging faggot. trees grow back and it doesnt look like he clearcut a whole fucking forest
>>709279
>Tragedy of the commons
>>709279
>extremely over reactive angry response
>has never even heard of "leave no trace" or doesn't know what it means, or is "edgy".
Do you know what happens when every little kid goes out into the forest and makes their own pile of sticks out of trees they chopped down because they think it is okay to do that? No more forest.
>>709188
>tfw south american
>tfw can't sleep on the floor like the comfy northern woods
Fuck my life
>tfw no qt slav gf
>>709232
Yesssss thats satisfying
>>709232
but what about brown recluse spiders, anon?
>>709279
>it doesnt look like he clearcut a whole fucking forest
Have you ever been to a real forest, or have you only seen tree farms and managed woodlands?
>>709224
My father once said "Earth doesnt give fuck about pollution... Pollution will kill all people but earth will go on... After 100k years there will be almost no trace of us and earth will be like it was all the time before humans" plus where i live we have tons of forests and trees need to be cut down so there wouldnt grow 10 tiny birch trers in one m2 but one good strong tree in few m2... Just like selection
>>709316
yes i've been to woods that are actually healthy and the distance between the trees is about 1.5-2.5m so the trees have space to grow.
>>709297 yeah edgy was what i was going for, did i do it right? No but seriously i'm not saying every kid should go cut down 50 trees that's dumb but if you are building 1 camp and are cutting dead, sick or trees that are going to die anyway then it's fine so long as it's on your land or you have permission to build it. as far as the leave no trace thing the camp we're talking is a permanent camp that you'll visit regularly so it's worth building a shelter considering if you are cutting the said dead/dying trees they'll grow back again so you're not hurting the land.
>select all images with trees
>>709315
Meh
I've never personally come across one, and I live in the south. Most buildings here get full of all types of bugs but if you do a little housecleaning you can usually keep them out.
I imagine smoking up the place regularly would help, but idk.
>>709304
God damn it 4chan. I read
>fuck my life
As
>fuck my wife
You're turning me into a cuck and I dont like it.
How do you guys sleep on the ground when bushcrafting? I went on a few trips and really loved it but then I woke up one morning with a snake like 2 feet from me and got bit. Thankfully I had a bite kit and wasn't that far from my car and got to the ER which was a ~20 minute drive away. It was a Copperhead which are everywhere around here. I'm now afraid to go backpacking without a tent or hammock.
>>709338
Take pic related... Dig moat around your tent and sleep well... I saw this in some video they were trapping snakes and scorpions with holes in ground so this should work
>>709338
Btw that was the first thing i would do if i were on "the island with bear grylls" ...
>>709342
lol no.
Only a tent or hammock are recommended in snake country.
>>709384
I said dig a moat around the camp ... That is dig around tent or whatever.... Like a 30cm moat with straight up walls and like 50 cm wide i think would be good for most of the pests
>>709230
with the fire that close and a chimney made of rocks that looks like it would be HOT AS FUCK
>>709389
Not the guy you're responding to, but it would be a winter shelter most likely. The fire wouldnt need to be very big to generate the right amount of heat. He may even have a heatshield/door inside that we can't see
>>709297
MUH NEVER EVER EVER LEAVE A TRACE
kill yourself autist
>>709338
>when bushcrafting
You are camping you pretentious shit
>>709414
>>709328
>tree cutting apologist
This mentality is the reason most of Europe doesn't have trees.
>>709433
Looks tasty
>>709188
why? wasted natural place
>>709338
>camping 20 minutes from civilization
>still being dumb enough to get a fairly serious injury
what even the fuck bro
>>709435
I have planted more trees in my life than western europe together i think. Where i live i earn about 410 eur per month... Yes im kinda bum working as a shop manager... But do we have forests and rivers and shit? Fuck yes... Now i live in a city but grew up in country side and to get to good fishing/camping spots that was a few minute walk. Now i live 5 minute walk from Baltic sea still cool and 5 min from lake... Only the city annoys me because of all the fags that live here not knowing shit about things... Every day see guys who dont know how tu even sharpen a fucking knife or use chainsaw... I work in garden tech shop so i see them city fags showing their girly side not knowong they put gas in gas tank and oil in oil tank
>>709440
Implying you can't be bitten by a snake in your front yard and have to go out into the wild to be injured.
>>709224
There are more trees on earth now than there has ever been. Calm down Nancy
>>709453
This desu senpai.
I live in the suburbs and havent seen snakes in my neighborhood probably ever, but one day my dog was growling at something behind my TV stand and I had to kill a fucking snake back there. Must have came through the dog door.
>>709457
>>709460
I would have screamed like a bitch.
>>709445
>not knowing they put gas in gas tank and oil in oil tank
In freedom land you can put both into the same tank.
>>709457
>>709254
That looks like an orc camp.
>>709529
Tfw meat's back on the menu boys
>>709529
Thank you!
>>709328
>yes i've been to woods
So you haven't been to a forest?
A real forest that has never been logged? Where there are standing dead trees and snags?
Where you see trees that are hundreds or thousands of years old?
It's not about the distance between the trees, it's the age and lack of logging
>>709328
>woods are full of trees you moron
>we will never run out of them
>>709519
>posting facts is "bait"
holy shit you're autistic
>>709676
This
Even Ireland and Iceland used to have lots of forest
It is the doom of men that they forget
What is there, one forest left in Europe? The rest is tree farms or secondary growth.
I'm privileged to be from the Americas
>>709691
>a fact
>>709435
>This mentality is the reason most of Europe doesn't have trees
>pretending fabulous galleons isn't the reason
Okay all you fags complaining about the cut timbers...
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF WOOD THAT IS?
Where i live your allowed to cut invasive trees all you fucking want. Because their invasive for a reason! So when you see a wood structure dont sperg out. Ive built bigger than ops picture for multiple people with nothing but invasive woods.
Tho I will always encourage learning to wattle and dab for walls. And make proper roofs with few timbers and grasses/large fronds.
>>709753
Same reason.
Lack of proper management.
>>709765
>invasive woods.
Nature doesn't give a shit about boundaries dude. 90% of your "native" flora was invasive to that area at one time. That's how nature rolls.
>>709791
with a little research you can know what the native flora is and reckt the rest.. no reason to be ignorant. non native shit kills native shit, native shit that might feed native animals.
like stupid asian trees people breed, then we get gay ass beetles that live in these bullshit asian trees and eat all the native plants and breed like a cancer they are. so I'm all for killing non natives.
>>709457
>baiting this hard
>>709254
That's pretty kick ass. What's up with the "spears" around the entrance ?
>>709839
>I'm all for killing non-natives
As a white man living in north America I'm not sure how this makes me feel.
>>709925
after I wrote that, and being of Dutch and British decent going back to "Pre" America, America. I read it the same way, but I already had posted it so it makes it that much more funny. and very 4chan-esk.
but seriously. if everyone once a week, removed 1 non native plant, in like a year we could bring back our environments and local flora. but stupid house wives rather just slap a bumper sticker on their minivans that says "Stay green" and 'say' they support the eco system.
>>709925
>As a white man living in north America I'm not sure how this makes me feel.
Yeah because white men are not native Muricans - they are pests
>>709315
You shouldn't be outdoors if you're scared of spiders anon
Just so you guys know in north America we didn't have as much forest as we do now, indigenous people on both coasts and inland set the woods on fire to create more open spaces for understory growth that deer and other wild life would eat.
Closed canopy forests are nearly as biodiverse in north America as they are in warmer regions where solar energy is much more intense.
Creating climax systems by thinning trees and maintaining biodiversity is key to human and nonhuman communities.
>>709230
using cement for an /out/ shelter is fucking heresy
>>709980
Not true. We have less than ever before thanks to industrial monocrop farming and more recently to logging being allowed in national parks. The midwestern Corn Belt utterly destroyed the forest there.
These charts for tree density speak for themselves.
>>710070
>These charts for tree density speak for themselves.
Why the hell is 4chan tripping out so much when posting images? Here's the image.
>>710071
As someone who grew up on the west coast and has spent a lot of time in that "green" area up and down the midwest, I don't believe that map for one second. The western side of Oregon and washington objectively have more trees than anywhere in the midwest.
>>710071
>posts a chloropleth with no key
Thanks for all the information, bud!
>>709857
Perhaps to keep wildlife at bay?
>>710070
> the great plains are man made
>>710110
this board is all idiots anon look in any thread
there are 0 intelligent things going on here
>>710226
>Native Americans do not exist
>>710071
Where's the legend on the second map? Is that map showing that the entirity of Olympic national park has the same tree density as Sacramento?
>>710218
*tips divacup*
Upvoted and gifted reddit gold, m'lady
>>710071
Anon, why do you post a tree species diversity density chart for your bottom image?
http://www.bonap.org/diversity/treediversity20070906.png
Here's a recent woodland biomass density map.
>>710266
>Buffalo came into existence once the indians cleared all the trees to create the Great Plains.
>>710311
Still shows decline, senpai.
>>710380
You are unaware of Native American history are you not? The entire continent was turned into a big farm prior to white man ever arriving. This is why when 90% of the population died due to disease when the Spanish landed it was so easy for colonists to spread across the entire continent.
>>709342
Mate you do realize a snake can crawl up a tree right? what makes you think it won't do the same to your "moat"?
>>709435
Yup that's why the country which i live in has 60% forests because of my apologist methods, i don't think you understand why i want to cut down trees and the quantity vs the industries that use wood
>>709457
not a good thing, forests 100 years ago had 100 trees/acre now it's around 160 trees/acre which is bad and unhealthy for the forest
>>709317
Your dad is right if it's in the right context. It's not just about the Earth but everything living in it. Sure all our plastic and trash won't hurt the earth itself especially in the long run, but the animals around us and the future humans will suffer for it
>>709656
>a real forrest that has never been logged
>never been logged
m8 u fokin wot? I am willing to bet my left ball that anyone won't be able to find a forest that has NEVER been logged because every area has had trees cut down and replanted
>>709676 not what i said but ok i'll reiterate my point, i think it's okay to cut down DEAD or DYING trees i.e deadfall, sick trees, trees that are growing too close together etc but if you do cut down a live tree which shouldn't be a regular occurence but it's acceptable as a once-in-a-while thing you should replant said live tree you cut down.
>>709713 i know you're exaggerating but there are actually plenty of people who own forests for their personal enjoyment and don't sell those trees or just cut down very few trees because of forest management
Any more questions my children?
>>710000
Quads confirm.
>>710266
Give it another 50 years or so and keep your fingers crossed :^)
>>709317
Earth does give a shit, at least temporarily. I'm sure we can fuck it up pretty good but given time earth well shrug it off.
It's shrugged off plenty of other worldwide calamitous events.
>>709518
Only if you drive a rotary.
>>710787
>he doesn't premix
BRRRAAAPPPP!
>>710307
>tips divacup
I internally kek'd
>>710798
I forgot you came here. I haven't been to /out/ in awhile.
mfw I want to know the feel of braaps regardless of its negatives
mfw I sold my face for apex seals
>>709232
pass fire code?
>>709342
>be a snake
>liked in the forest for my entire snake life
>slithering about
>encounter 6" trench
>stuck here now
>at least i have wifi
>>710787
is that
is that a fucking dorito
god damn it
>>710000
fucking checked
>>710471
>m8 u fokin wot? I am willing to bet my left ball that anyone won't be able to find a forest that has NEVER been logged because every area has had trees cut down and replanted
>I've never experienced it, so it must not exist
We have uncut forests in the Americas. I know it's hard for Europeans to understand, but it exists here
You should visit. It's awesome seeing living things that are thousands of years old
>>709254
Spooky! Would not dare to steal your shit.
>>709925
Continent-squatter..
>>709188
I recorded this a few months ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqLUT8f-xkA
>>710066
Here on Brazil pine trees are invasive and are literally the only one you can cut without theoretically going to jail
![75589244[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uJf8UOg.jpg "75589244[1].jpg")
>>710993
This is the native pine tree with retarded inverse umbrella and eadible fruits.
>>709188
Hey /out/ I want to build something like the pic in the OP with eucalyptus, do I need to do something to the wood before building the shelter or will it last on its own without any kind of waxes or other products. It will be a semi-permanent shelter, if it last 2 or 3 years it's good enough, I don't really need it, I'm only building to test my skills.
>>709188
>cuts gown 30 trees
>LOOK AT MY "SURVIVAL" SHELTER!!!!
KYS
![captain-obvious-meme[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ylGkSoD.jpg "captain-obvious-meme[1].jpg")
>>711086
Thank you retard I coudn't figure that myself. It's no excuse for a fatass to cut 20 trees to make his
Survival™ Tatical™Stealth™Emergency™ Bushcraft™Shelter. And a shit one that looks like a pig pen and probably took a a couple days to be built. Just make a shed in the middle of nowhere instead of this dumb shit if you want to feel special.
>>710978
There is no such thing as an "uncut" forest because trees were most likely cut down by our ancestors and new ones grown back, maybe they weren't all clearcut at once but most forests were cut at one point or another. Also i live 20 minutes from a national forest with trees thousands of years old.
>>711183
>There is no such thing as an "uncut" forest
>i live 20 minutes from a national forest with trees thousands of years old.
Who lets these mouth breathers on /out/?
>>711195
damn, that's amazing actually
>>709966
Ah yes, the ol American borders going way back to old indian times
>>711084
Bushcraft is not the same as survival.
>>711390
I used to have some 6 feet in diameter oak trees on my property. Then a massive wind storm totally wrecked all of them. Turns out, most were actually hollow inside.
>>711421
Indeed, it is a worse excuse to cut shit down and waste it.
>>711420
Not to mention the faggot that put "one nation on people" on it like they are the most white bread educated John Smith fucker around. The lack of correct Native American history is a testament to the longevity of government propaganda.
>>709224
All these other angry arguments aside, dead/rotting wood is very good for the forest. This includes amphibians, invertebrates, birds and even the trees themselves. The majority of nitrogen absorbed by trees comes from bacteria which live in dead wood. For those who do not believe me I encourage you to Google "coarse woody debris."
>>709457
> Only 31% forested.
> More than ever.
Wut?
>>709980
Having a climax or late seral stage forest does not mean less forest. You have to understand that fire was always an integral part of ecosystems, and it is true that some natives encouraged that process. But they didn't by any means destroy and clear large swaths of land like we're doing today.
Also, tropical forests have marginally higher biodiversity and productivity due to the generally large and diverse number of species. Having more dense regen-stage forest than old growth forest is a really bad thing. Not to mention that having areas uncovered by trees causes the soil to release ungodly amounts of co2. We need to manage better right now.
sorry for blog post
>>711473
>rain forests
>marginally biodiverse
I seriously hope you don't know what marginally means.
>>711480
Meant to quote
>>711473
and
>>709980
>40-300 diferent TREES species/hec - Amazon
>4-25 " " "" - North american forest
What the fuck you people smoke before posting on the internet? I've seen more diferent plant life in a short hike through the cerrado than I've seen in my 4 month stay in USA.
>>711480
Whoopsie. Meant majorly.
>>711484
I don't know if you people count the atlantic forest as rainforest but it's awfully bio-diverse and hard to hike because >muddy huge hills .
Pic has a bonus palm sized spoider
>>711483
Yep. It's sad cause where the majority of management is occurring (North America/Europe) is not where the majority of biodiversity can be found (South America/south east Asia). Our demand for materials is what is causing a great deal of deforestation so don't go all /pol/ on me.
>>711492
Those forests are just teeming with life. The number of invertebrates is staggering.
>>711428
Why? If you have the resources why not use them? I have about 100 ha with eucalyptus where I regularly camp and I loved building a watchtower, I'm thinking of building something like the pic in the OP now.
>>711495
>staggering
More like disgusting. I got tired of slipping thorugh 5 meter mud slopes with rocks to face-slam on those nigger spiders yesterday. I made a thread with pics. >>>710292
When I buy a kayak I'll go to the mangrooves. Deforestation is old here, portuguese started cutting brazil wood for dye (that's why we are brazil, it means "of brazen color". Then we did ourselves and then americans did with Farquhar's Southern Brazil Lumber & Colonization that got 15km on both sides of a 1,403 Km railroad to de-forestate, then we did ourselves again with the disctatorship giving land in the rainforest because >fear of other nations stealing our de-populated far away lands in the 80s. Now we have the lumber->cattle->soy triumvirate burning everything and bullshit mineral reserves like the Carajas that are bigger than some nations.
>>709304
>Tfw Slav
>Can't sleep on the pampas
>tfw no South American gf
>>709713
Go to Eastern Europe and you'll wish you never said that
>>711527
Pampas are clean, no Ants. up the 25 º there are 30 species of ants on every shrub and thermites and fucking spider. But I got you back slavbro.
>I'll never protest in the martan with a pretty blonde slav gf and make loving sex in a tent
>>711496
>If you have the resources why not use them?
And, this is the the mentality that got humanity into the boat we are in.
Fuck you.
>>710867
Yes, it's a nickname of the rotary engine.
>>711463
But it's best to spread out the rotting material, not to have it all piled in one place.
>>709188
I got a few photos of some of my shelters. Let me look.
>>711685
>>711687
>>711693
>>711694
>>711695
>>711676
You mean wankel engine.
>>711183
so old growth is not a thing??
>not just laying under the stars
>not even making something to insulate you from the ground
this should be called /in/
>>709254
Hey I remember this thread, I came to /out/ thinking about it
Fuck the bears man
>>711681
For sure. But I was just trying to illustrate that CWD is beneficial. A little shelter won't make much of a difference, but it's better to leave the wood there. In my program, we're told one of the easiest ways to get a quiet forest is to remove CWD.
>>711500
That must be so sad to watch. It's kind of like all the fucking palm oil plantations taking over in south east Asia, what a waste.
>>711567
Are you just mad that you're not a property owner and can't do the things I do? The entire forest is cut down every 9 years, I planted those trees and I get to do whatever I want with them. Anyway since this already felt like bait I doubt I'll be replying to you anymore.
>>711836
He probably thought you were an aussie and the eucalyptus were native trees
![brazil-cerrado-jpg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LBrRsMi.jpg "brazil-cerrado-jpg[1].jpg")
>>711786
Yep. But I find watching the Cerrado die sadder. It's just a huge plain of savannah with acid soil (but very fertile, three harvests a year kek) and now it's our new (not so new but you get it) agricultural frontier (coupled with the amazon) because EMBRAPA (a research corporation, they are good guys unlie monsanto etc, discovered how to make those soils usable). Now it's soy everywhere
![PAULOcerr9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/x4eyfPR.jpg "PAULOcerr9[1].jpg")
>>711900
It looks like this but there are several other biomes such as
>tall woods that grow in the hills
>just grass
>marsh palms
It has frequent natural (now artificially more frequent because of humans) fires. Even though the trees int eh pic are short (5 m max) their roots are huge.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KPm1GtL.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
These palms give fruits that are edible and used in industry for everything from creams to micro-chips.
![produtos_mumbuca[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VZeYMDF.jpg "produtos_mumbuca[1].jpg")
>>711907
And there are several thousand of endemic species. Things from living fossil wolfs, to fruits filled with thorns and a miniature cashew and this autistic golden grass that makes pretty ultra-chiq jewlery and acessories.
>>709315
I prefer outdoor spiders to urban roaches, personally.
I mean, is there a rule about bringing long-lasting insecticide?
>>709232
>sneeze near fire pit
>everything combusts
>die
>>709230
I don't know, if you're gonna put that much effort into the shelter might as well make a cabin
this is like a half completed cabin
>>711900
Man, the shit western corporations get away with in your country is beyond criminal. Activism seems so frightening there too. You hear stories about the USDA and other shady groups killing off environmental advocates. All the while some of the most unique ecosystems are destroyed in the name of cheap, singular commodities.
>>711951
I never heard about USDA killing anyone here. But local farmers, large farmers (more land than small nations that is "theirs") falsify historical records to win more land, kill anyone who tries anything to stop them, kill indians defending their land (and they kill farmers too because you need the pope and the president of the galaxy signature to let a policeman in their reserves).
The farmers are really shit, they outright send armed thugs to kill people in the amazon. Like Chico mendes, the american nun Dorothy Stang and a bunch of other people we don't even hear about. It's a region without law, roads or government even in these days, there are imense regions of forest and farms with only 5 IBAMA (enviroment bureau) with no cars to fiscalize or with not enough federal police officers to enforce law in deforestated zones found with satelites. In the cerrado it's another bussiness, it's well.. Legal business, southern farmers buy large swaths of land to plant soy and sugar, COSAN and RAIZEN make fuck huge sugar/ethanol mills and rent farms to plant sugarcane until the soil turns to sand and employ(ed) semi-slave labor coming from the desertified regions of the north-east, fix ethanol prices.
The problem is that since the 1500s the Ruralist bench in power is very strong, they oposed industrialization in the years of Viscount of Mauá, oposed the end of slavery (we were the last nation to abolish it, there were even CSA migrants coming here because of it) and now are and will be a major power in the senate and chamber for quite a while. Senators and their families run entire states for decades throwing them into misery (like the sarney family with maranhao etc..)
>>711710
Technically yes, I was using the colloquial term. I'm aware of the rotary piston engine, not toto be confused with the radial engine.
>>712048
The rumors I heard were those where killings like Mrs. Stang would have been in the best interest of the USDA, due to demand for resources. But there's no way to prove anything.
Jesus, it's rotten on every possible layer. Are there any efforts to create protected zones in the Cerrado? Are there any kind of democratic processes to kick the senators out? Is it at least possible to make a decent living?
>>712230
Well, they are unrooting a corruption scandal involving Construction conglomerates (brazilian ones that branch in every sector including defense) if you turn on the TV there is something about yesterday protests. Decent living? Yes, even with 50% tax on everything and crazy bureocracy and people stuck between governments sindicates and everything else it is possible. I'm shielded from it a bit as both mother and father have degrees and post-graduation and I speak english, but for uneducated people life is and always was hard.
Yes there are reserves in the cerrado but they are insuficient. In brazil, rivers, mountain/hill sides and tops and automatically protected zones but due to lack of fiscalization in most places this isn't respected. We beat and kill our rivers and yet they haven't failed us . Farmers are legally forced to have about 20% of their lands untouched but again fiscalization and loopholes (keeping unfertile, land that was destroyed in previous ownerships untouched or leaving vegetation islands).
Yes there are elegations and voting is mandatory and ballots secret, but some senators (and lineages, sarney again as prime example) have so much power for so much power in places where education is so poor that with enough propaganda and not-quite-but-yet-buying of votes they are guaranteed to win. We are talking about a place that has elected the president that suffered impeachment as a senator years later. (Collor).
Now with faith lost in all institutions and parties, feding up of bureocracy, climate and economical crises (last year the whole south and south-east had no rain in the rain season and massive heat, são paulo a city of 20mi almost ran out of water, and authorities denied) and enviromental issues such the mariana dam breach things are reaching a point where people realize that change is necessary.
>>712315
>elegations
Brain fart. I meant elections.
td;dr is shit is hitting the fan on every corner, political, economical, cultural and ecological and that is the best thing that could happen to a nation stuck in a status quo. Things are going to change.
Pic is Pequi (Pe-kii) a fruit that can't be biten, you need to use your teeth to scrape it's meat for it has thorns INSIDE the pulp. People in the cerrado love it with chicken but even being a native I think it tastes and smell like sweaty feet.
>>712230
>Jesus, it's rotten on every possible layer.
It really sucks having knowledge about the practices of those who run the world or their own small world. It is like, that fact they even exist in that job means they must be that way.
>>709457
>being this dumb
>>712315
It's all happening so fast. I feel somewhat unlucky to live in an era where we will witness the next mass extinction (human induced mind you). I suppose even the most corrupt leeches on the people will have no choice to wake up once it comes to a crescendo. By then, I wonder what's going to be left to salvage.
>>712389
Yeah. I'm on my way to a resource management degree, and everywhere it's one step foreward and two steps back all in the name of 'THE GLORIOUS ECONOMY.' God forbid we do anything that might fuck with the great and powerful markets. Abstract nonsense based on financial speculation and back door bureaucracy.
>>712586
I'm starting Electrical engineering. When freshmen (and most vets) start talking about this subjects my ears bleed. And it hurts to know they will also play a role in all that. Here people legitimately want to be a civil servant and leech of the government forever. (They can't be fired, EVER). It's the same kind of people that call strikes before opening negotiations and stop cancer treatment of dying people because they didn't get a raise when the whole economy (specially government) is on the shitter.
>>712586
>I suppose even the most corrupt leeches on the people will have no choice to wake up once it comes to a crescendo.
That's not how it works. They merely shift from one thing to another, leaving the first a husk. Those types of people do not see the world the same way you do, not even in the slightest.
FUCK MY BIG ARYAN ASS BABE I WANT YOUR JEW SPERM INSIDE ME
-Adolf Hitler
>>712789
It's really disheartening to hear the majority of opinions on the subject. My program's at a trade school, so there's a lot of welders/carpenters/pipe fitters etc. and man it boils my blood hearing some of the ignorance regarding the environment. We had to write a class report and talk to the whole campus just to get those mouth breathers to recycle. We'll see if we've made any difference after the next waste audit, but I doubt it.
>>712846
I suppose sociopaths just don't change.
Sorry about derailing the tread. I recommend checking out pic related. It covers basic to advanced shelters, and a great deal of them are pretty easy to construct.
>>709315
Spiders aren't going to hunt you down. Even if/when spiders come inside, they are just going to eat other bugs that want to eat your comfy home. Just don't stick your bare foot in his business.
>>709338
Clear the leaf litter away from where you sleep and have a fire. You need to advertise your presence to the animals. Copperhead probably though hey what a comfy hole, o fuck a human
>>709791
Biodiversity is good for the environment. Invasives destroy biodiversity. Therefore you are doing the environment a favor by destroying invasive species.
>>713209
The problem occurs if/when the spider decides to take refuge inside your sleeping bag, glove, socks, etc.
>>713215
>Invasives destroy biodiversity
No, it changes the biodiversity and things eventually level off.
>>713215
Well, it depends on weather or not it's a native invasive species. Native invasives have cycles which are beneficial. For example, the Spruce Bud Worm will show up in it's native range when there are a large number of overmature conifers, clearing the way for climax species nursing in the understory.
Non native invasive species are a different story altogether.
>>709615
>>709224
It's the circle
the circle of life
>>709282
Soon there will be no bush
Only bushcraft shelters
ITT: People who know nothing about silviculture, climate change, pre settlement vegetation, and not knowing the difference between virgin timber stands and old growth forests. Also retards thinking managed forest land in the US isn't sustainable.
>>713250
In ecology, there is no such distinction between non native invasives and native invasives. Invasive species are exotic species that have naturalized outside their native range due to human activity. Also the fallacy that everything should constantly be at a climax stage is outrageous and not in tune with natural disturbance regimes.
>>713953
Where have you been studying? What about the natural cycles with the Mountain Pine Beetle in British Colombia? It's considered a natural frequent stand initiating disturbance regime. Human activities such as disallowing all forest fires may have made these disturbances more intense due to the expanse of over-mature pines, but the Mountain Pine Beetle is still considered native and within its range.
I didn't say by any means that all forests should be in their climax stage at all times. I simply said how the Spruce Bud Worm is an aid to natural succession leading to a late seral stage forest; the natural step after over-mature regeneration species have died off.
>>713946
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting, anon.
>>711761
What i mean is if there was a forest with all the uncut trees they would be thousands of years old but the most i see is maybe 3-4k though i'm not sure feel free to correct me.
But i still think cutting too many live trees is bad same with dead standing ESPECIALLY deciduous trees because they are a host for tons of animals but if you cut a couple (4-6 depending on the woods) then it's fine so long as the forest actually has a lot of trees.
>>714096
I think all of this boils down to managing within LC or "land capability." Data collection within forest stands can determine the volume (chords or meters squared) of wood fibre one can harvest per hectare per year. Using appropriate harvesting techniques (selective cutting, patch cutting etc.) combined with not exceeding an area's LC means the woodlot will remain biologically productive, good habitat for native species and be able to follow the trends of natural succession.
>>714100
i agree we do have that here but there was an exception in 2014 where people were allowed to cut down all the dead pines and spruce because bark beetles were killing our evergreens so we had to cut down the dead trees to avoid more damage but other than that i don't touch live trees except for the occasional sappling for a tripod
>>714165
My professor did some of that work in BC before he started teaching, it was a real mess. And I agree with your practice, it's certainly a good thing to avoid felling live trees in general; the forest will do just fine if we don't interfere.
All i'm saying is that the demand for wood products will never go away, so we have to do our best to be responsible stewards. And this concept is achievable provided the guidelines of the experts are followed.
As far as shelter building goes, there are plenty of ways to do so with minimal impact to the forest.
Take my region for example, the Acadian forest has plenty of trembling aspen trees pretty much everywhere. Taking live trees for a shelter is fine because when stressed, trembling aspens "sucker out" and develop many more offspring from their roots.
You can also prune lower branches off trees for shelters. I prefer white spruce b/c they're abundant and don't self prune as well. The way you can do this without harming a tree is to cut to the "branch collar." This way, the tree will form a callus and heal properly. Pruning too far out will effectively turn whats left of the branch into a rotten wick, eventually killing the tree.
Pic related, a proper pruning job.
>>714293
>Offspring from there roots
Root suckers aren't considered offspring, rather clonal stems. Also it has nothing to do with stress they just sucker as the root system develops.
>I prefer white spruce b/c they're abundant and don't self prune as well.
That may be so, but they are pretty apically dominant and often grow in stand dense enough to only provide spindly little axilary branches.
>>711183
I guarantee the few relic stands of 1000+ y/o are merely relics of what was once present on the land. Also our ancestors did not harvest these trees they had no incentive as there wasn't a timber market back then in N.A. plus they didn't have the hardware to do it.
>>714293
i never considered cutting aspen very problematic because it grows incredibly quickly especially where i live it grows almost a meter per year and its a very cheap wood but there is one close to my house that is very beautiful that i would never touch
>>714372
http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4dmg/Trees/aspencan.htm
They're certainly considered offspring where i'm being taught. This article even refers to them as "mother trees." They will sucker out regardless, but this process will speed up in the event of stress events (heat, lack of water and cutting) as an attempt to pass on genetics. There was a meeting last year where a local tree nursery owner was talking with woodlot owners. He discouraged cutting aspen to avoid creating many more young.
As far as white spruce goes, it depends on the specific tree. A whole stand will provide a diverse number of options, particularly along edges where they are exposed to sunlight. There one can find larger, more useful branches. The interior branches are great for firewood, as they are often dead.
>>714867
They can be great looking trees. I really like the smell they make when flowering.
>>714950
forgot pic
>>709414
Goddamn, you don't have to be Captain Planet everywhere you go but if you're acting like a child and pulling this shit then you don't deserve to experience wonderful places like this.
>>714950
i ever only used the wood for spoon making never really bothered smelling it but it looks great with the bright bark
>>715041
I'll have to try that. I find the wood itself doesn't smell all that hot. Sometimes, the heartwood of the trunk will look sort of stained and emit a foul odor. I find this happens to aspens near water, don't ask me why though.
>>715063
i once found a vein of blood-red heartwood in an aspen which didn't really emit any special smell but the wood had a very strong woody scent
>>715730
Interesting. Maybe it's a personal preference thing but I never liked the smell of aspen heartwood.
people that bury their shit in plastic bags are hilariously hurting the environment more than shitting in a hole. its like your whole life youve been trained to never return anything to the ground, and even when presented with the opportunity to make the decision for yourself and not have the sewer system do it for you, you still fuck up horrendously. you know feces is like, a fucking major part of the biome
shitting in a plastic bag is literally the most autistic thing you can ever achieve in life
>>715830
people legit shit in plastic bags?
>>715860
I can testify. I've seen people do it.
I normally find a flat stone, dig a hole, crap, fill it back in, and put the stone over it. The stone allows me to know not to dig in the same spot twice.
>>710433
>no metalworking
>continous war
>no permanent structure
Sure... I believe you.
Did you know that the pyramids were for hermetically sealing grain as offerings to aliens?
>>716155
>no metalworking
Pic related, plus tons of other stuff.
>continous war
Sadly, part of the human condition it seems.
>no permanent structure
Acoma Pueblo and Taos Pueblo to name a couple; around 1,000-2,000 years old, among others. Some pueblo cities housed thousands of people. Not much left of the Greeks either I suppose.
They even build viking-esque earth mound houses and long houses. Some built wooden plank houses that were sturdier than the modern pine stud, drywall, and siding houses.
You should probably not get your information from old western, propaganda movies, kid.
>>716183
If the Native Americans were so great, how come there aren't any great Amerindian landfills?
Checkmate, atheists.
>>714950
I guess you can call them offspring but usually the term is applied to an organism genetically diverse from its parent.
>>713968
Well I studied in E. North America so I'm used to forest pathogens of the east and have only heard of the Mountain Pine beetle but I have been told that an effective treatment in stands of lodgepole and ponderosa pine is to thin the stand to a "parkland" like setting that was more common prior to fire suppression.
>>710995
>pine
>fruits
pick one m8.
>>716184
But...there are.
>>716211
technically the seeds within the pinecones are fruits but they are edible.
>>716184
Nigger there are shell/refuse deposits all over south america. I don't know about north america.
>>713212
This, have you never heard of a snake ring?
My home for 3 days during my Rescue Tracker course.
>>709230
just don't stoke the fire before you go to sleep
>>710071
Fuck that first map looks so nice
>>709966
Well, I'm sure they appreciate being taught the same language as us so they can bitch about it more.
Been working on this babe for a while. The entire thing is built on a old giant redwood stump.
The pampas grass I'm using for the roof is a fucking BITCH and keeps slicing the shit out of my arms.
>>717652
Fuck yeah looks good man
I want to find a natural granitic rock hollow and make a shelter like the one from The VVitch.
>>717623
Who? The 5% left alive?
>>709615
Good lord, I laughed so hard at this my dog left the room.
>>711195
not that other guy, but damn dude. learn your /out/ history. heres a whole collection of men cutting down sequoias.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sequoia+tree+logging&safe=off&biw=1920&bih=945&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU8cLqoNPLAhUSwWMKHZ9NCP8Q_AUIBygB
>>709317
>implying humans will die first
>>717696
That was basically the only good part of that entire movie.
>>709188
This is so damn cool. I wish I had land.
>>718789
what movie is that?
>>709254
First time on /out. Not disappointed lol
>>711900
but evergreenpines in the south is best brazil region
>>709700
Survival in the Section 8 Housing jungle?
