/out/ medecine
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You are currently reading a thread in /out/ - Outdoors
You are currently reading a thread in /out/ - Outdoors
Hey /out/,
So I thought that it'd be good for us to have a thread on how you've dealt with injuries/illnesses while /out/.
I'll start, so I completely chopped off the top of one of my fingers before, it was pumping blood. I was about 90mins drive from any medical help. I stuck the bit of flesh back on and used a whole pack of butterfly stitches to keep pressure on it and help to stop the bleeding. The bit of flesh stuck on a bit after 2/3 days and I started putting honey on the open wound. It closed up 3 days later and started to use comfrey ointment to help the skin along and keep the moisture in. Looking at it now you can't even tell that it ever happened.
So /out/ what have you done following injury or illness while /out/?
Wait, through the bone and everything? Lucky guy
>>692006
I've never had to deal with anything besides mosquitoes. Treatment involved ignoring the issue.
We need this thread though.
Willow bark makes a decent aspirin substitute.
Mint is good for upset stomachs.
Garlic has antifungal and antiviral properties.
Anybody got more?
>>692006
This may be odd and goes against everything we're taught but I'm 52 and have not once in my life needed a FAK
I've been skiing 3X with injuries requiring cart/sled
knee/knee/collarbone
I've been on boat requiring a butterfly bandaid
kneeboard to the nose
1 fish hook in a bare foot
broken finger playing softball that I set myself and broken collarbone playing hockey that I set myself (see earlier skiing)
So much is made about FAKs but I think they are fucking useless
>>693076
add 1 razor clam to foot playing frisbee on mud flats. No stitches on that one but should have.
>>693061
An easier and less damaging alternative to willow bark is to make either a yarrow tea or some meadow sweet. I've used yarrow for a toothache before and it works great, once you get over the taste.
>>692892
I didn't get the bone, it was at an angle from the middle of the top going downwards so just missed it thank God
I always carry garlic cloves with me. Great for making food tasty, also works as a really great disinfectant (but omg does garlic hurt).
>>692006
I've told this story before but might as well again.
>Me, 3 friends
>First night camping by the parking lot before hiking out in AM
>Friend cut finger on an axe unpacking
>I am an MD, and we had 2 PAs on the trip as well (not inc friend)
>Inspect wound, pretty deep, worthy of closure if possible
>Nearest urgent care is 2ish hours away, it is Friday night, probably not even open
>Have some 3-0 prolene, irrigation fluid, bandages, etc
>Decided to suture it closed
>Close it in the car
>Everything went better than expected
>Good remainder of the trip
Learning to suture is worthwhile imo as long as you know what you should close and shouldn't. It is a complicated decision and can make a big difference. Healing open wounds by secondary intention is a huge pain in the ass and takes forever. On the other hand closing wounds inappropriately can significantly worsen the chances of infection and poor outcomes.
Good article worth reading: "They Had Me In Stitches" - case of failed conservative management of a traumatic wound sustained in a wilderness setting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24418453
>>698316
The two PAs prepping the patient for surgery lol
>>698319
Not enough blood/10
>>698316
>>698319
I'm a construction worker, and I've sustained some pretty serious injuries that were solved pretty quickly with a bandage and piece of gauze. You yuppy types need to stop treating the outdoors like a soul searching journey into the great vast wilderness and more like a trip into the woods.
In the do/k/ument there's a pdf named Where There Is No Doctor. Might be able to find it online somewhere. I gave it a casual look through and it seems alright.
>>698244
Also a great antibiotic. If you have a bit of a cold or chest infection take 1-6 cloves a day. If you need fast relief from sinuses rub a clove on the sole of your foot. You'll smell it on your breath within 5 mins.
Also another thing is onions, both have the same chemical in them that help as an anti-bacterial/viral/fungal. If you have a stuffed up nose, bad sinuses and are dripping like mad chop up some onions and bandage it on to the back of your neck. Will drive it up in no time.
Just learn whats about not necessarily just for being /out/ but for life. People take way too many meds now
At the moment I have a fairly bad abscess in my mouth, I wasn't taking care and it doubled in size and got two heads. Very sore. Last night I put honey on a gauze and put it on top. Changed it after an hour and fell asleep for about 3ish hours. When I got up the abscess was nearly gone. Doing it again today a couple of times just to make sure
>>699687
Thanks for this. I do have a bit of a sinus infection and I've stopped eating garlic daily this month because my mom said she hated the smell. Gonna pick some up.
>>699689
Regular honey or raw honey? I have some organic raw honey and I've never used it for healing.
>>698316
I love evidenced-based wilderness care.
Also, I wish I could just nip down to the store and buy a syringe of xylocaine for my kit like you folks.
If I was to decide to leave a wound open and irrigate, what would you suggest for irrigation? Saline? sterile water? Wound care isn't really in my scope of practice lol
>>699333
>implying I want my cause of death to be an infected cut on my finger that I didn't take care of
>>699381
Would be awesome if you found it!
>>699711
I keep my own bees so it's treatment free, raw and organic
>>701460
desu when I cut the top off my finger I didn't wash it out, sometimes washing out a wound can do more damage. The honey I put on it is antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal so I'd say not washing it is grand if you have something that'll disinfect it, unless it's a really dirty wound with debris.
For a deeper wound I'd use lichens to pack and cover the wound. Old mans beard works better than most antibiotics, loads of iodine and it's absorbent. The proper name is urbata something or other.
>>692006
Dengue fever. Terrible shit and I got the Hemorragic kind. I bleed through every orifice and sometimes through the skin. No treatment. Just drink water and hope you don't die. And guess what? Even though I have imunity know there are other 3, THREE, fucking strains out there and the risk of hemorragic kind gets higher, aswell the risk of death, with the number of infections. Fucking brazil
>>701664
>The proper name is urbata something or other.
Usnea? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usnea
>>699333
>You could of fixed all that with some pressure and super glue.
True, but it was an ideal situation to just suture it. Clean fresh wound, clear edges, all the proper supplies on hand.
>>699326
>I'm a construction worker, and I've sustained some pretty serious injuries that were solved pretty quickly with a bandage and piece of gauze. You yuppy types need to stop treating the outdoors like a soul searching journey into the great vast wilderness and more like a trip into the woods.
Good for you. But nothing wrong with being prepared and taking advantage of it when appropriate. His finger would have been OK eventually whether it was closed or not but the healing time, bandage changes, etc would have been much different. If you've ever had a big finger lac you know how long it can take to heal, and every time you forget about it and hit your finger wrong it breaks open and starts bleeding all over. Had a finger lac last year that I didn't close and went through that for weeks. So yea if you have the capabilities and no access to a professional alternative why not throw a couple sutures?
>>701460
>If I was to decide to leave a wound open and irrigate, what would you suggest for irrigation? Saline? sterile water? Wound care isn't really in my scope of practice lol
The WMS recommends using just potable water in a wilderness setting, and it's a grade 1A recommendation. There is no evidence that it's any less effective than saline or sterile water.
Personally I carry saline for major /out/ trips but mostly because it's convenient and comes in the spray bottles people use for contact lenses. Can re-fill that multiple times with potable water to irrigate higher volumes.
But if I have a wound at home honestly I just stick it under running tap water for a few mins.
>>701808
Yeah Usnea Barbata, dyslxic moment!
http://thenaturopathicherbalist.com/herbs/t-u/usnea-barbata/
>>701879
I went out and googled some peer-reviewed medical studies while I waited. It's fun to see just how much of medical "common sense" is just based on tradition without a basis in evidence.
At this point, depending on circumstance I will probably simply irrigate it with potable water via a clean syringe and then slap a tegaderm on it to hopefully prevent contamination and encourage healing. My kit is less for wilderness trips and more "oh fuck, I'm going to have to walk to safety" in case I am stranded, so it is probably more comprehensive than I will ever need, despite being rather light weight.
Myrrh is good for a lot. I always have some to make coffee sweet. It's a good emergency filling for a tooth. It works well on bleeding, and can be used to treat stomach problems on trail. It can be used as an incense, that IMHO keeps away mosquitos. Rhodiola rosea is good for altitude sickness and sleep deprivation, it also helps you function on lower calories, with an improvement in performance.
>>702413
Where can you get myrrh though. I've only ever seen it as incense.
>>702413
This is the second time this week I've heard of myrrh for medicinal uses
>>702402
>It's fun to see just how much of medical "common sense" is just based on tradition without a basis in evidence.
Bit of an oversimplification there, but yeah, welcome to pre-hospital care!
>>699689
My guess would be osmosis from the high moisture absess to the low moisture honey.
Honey is pretty cool, I keep bees as well.
>>703557
I used to think it was all just old wives tales, but science is just starting to catch up with herbal medicine. Turns out, honey contains H2O2 which is great as a burn or wound dressing, garlic's allicin is anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal and anti-carcinogenic, rose hips have more vitamin C than any other fruit, and poppy's codeine cures all the symptoms of the flu.
Frankly, I'm convinced that the majority of health issues people have today are caused by not eating the way our grandparents did. Offal has loads of different vitamins that you don't get from steak cuts, and arthritis is primarily caused by a lack of chondroitin; when was the last time you had a soup made with real bone broth? Probably never, and that used to be a dietary staple.
These days, most of our food is made from corn, and little else, and kids are dying of cancer at earlier ages every year. Maybe we should eat like our ancestors, rather than like cattle.
>>693061
Ginger is good for upset stomachs and is an anti nauseant or w/e
>>703997
>when was the last time you had a soup made with real bone broth?
Last week. I make a couple batches both chicken stock and beef broth every winter and freeze it in cubes. Requires a ton of bones and meat but it's worth it. Simmer 10 hours until bones crumble. It is so rich in flavor and protein it's like a meal just itself.
/ck
>>703557
Well, I wasn't going to sit here and write a thesis on it. My point is that common practice for things like suturing and irrigation have changed in the last two decades, in some cases rather radically. Examples are the use of non-sterile gloves and regular water instead of saline or other liquids in wound irrigation. So many former practices were based on assumptions, which research has shown to be wrong. Its kinda sad to see that even what is supposed to be the most scientific of professions is not immune to obsession with "how we always did it"
> itt bunch of god damn hippies!
Why can't you just go to a REGULAR Doctor and get a perscription like normal human beings?
>>703997
I want to get into bone broth. Exactly how do you make it? Just boil bones?
Someone I know shattered both her knee caps and didn't go to the hospital. Immediately after it happened she used a compress of her own pee, apparently the first pee after you've been in an accidentally will have all the chemicals that your body needs to help heal, although I wouldn't do it. But after that she used compresses of comfrey, took her own homemade acv 3 times everyday and ate bone broth, along with intermittent fasting. 6 weeks later she was back to doing yoga
My hippy medical kit is as follows
Ginger - gastro intestinal
Apple Cider Vinegar - kidneys, liver and rashes
Turmeric and Cinnamon - anti inflammatory, anti bacterial, etc
Manuka Honey - master of wound coverings
Ethanol - sterilizing and quaterizing
Canabis - sleep aid, pain killer
Clove - pain killer
I'm a qualified lifeguard and first responder so have pretty good first aid, mostly guaze and sling and cpr stuff. Would love to learn sutures and bone setting.
>>704666
Good kit, I gotta sort out a go to herb for everything. I know what's for what but when it's not there or if there's prep to it, I just leave it
>>704465
>supporting the pharmaceutical jew
Why do people still think "/out/ medicine" = herbal remedies and making medicine from bullshit innawoods? This is pretty much 0% of what groups like Wilderness Medical Society cover.
imo it is more about preparing for injuries and illnesses likely to be encountered outdoors or important to handle outdoors. The most you should know about "plant medicine" is which ones are poisonous. None really have any legitimate purpose.
>>692006
i gashed my shin down to bone while 300mi innamountains once. washcloth washed daily plus neosporin and duct tape to seal it all off, it took a very long time to heal completely, over 4 months, but it did eventually heal. after a few weeks it was closed at least so i didn't have to up keep much after that. i had two broken ribs while traveling once that took over half a year to heal completely what with sleeping on the ground every night. that was real shitty but i mostly just got drunk to deal with it. which probably didnt help the whole healing thing, but whatever.
>>707693
Herbals aren't strictly for /out/. It needs to be part of our everyday life. Start of spring I start having nettle soups to give me a boost and as a tonic. 3 cornered leaks have some of the properties of garlic/onions just in lower concentration and can help rid the body of any lingering nasties coming into the spring. I make an elderberry and rosehip syrup come august/september to help fight flus through the winter. /out/ medicine can just be foraging for medicinal foods.
>>708433
Although it's handy to have a bit of know how for sprains, breaks and gashes while out
