Hi /out/, can we get a thread about self sufficiency?
Basically, I hate my life. I hate that we live in a world where it is absolutely necessary that you work to make money for someone else, and collect a small percentage of that so that you can live.
I want to start learning about gardening, construction, general survival.
I mean, were all going to die. Might as well do something great, interesting, etc.
Is such a unique challenge even possible? Especially for someone like me, I'm completely submerged in the technological world. Would it be possible to live "off the grid" so to speak, no technology, and still maintain a life where I can go and see people and do things? I live in Oregon, by the way.
I guess we can discuss various knowledges and experiences having to do with self sufficiency.
>absolutely necessary that you work to make money for someone else, and collect a small percentage of that so that you can live
Do you even have a skill? If you are like most people you produce less at work than you get paid. You are a freeloader in life and you come here wanting us to do work for you, for free. You are a lowly parasite, your plan is unachievable because you can never scrape together $10,000 to get started on your failure. Your life is already over. Happy holidays faggot!
I work for a non-profit. We have a board of directors that are not paid. My boss makes about the same as I do. There's no one getting rich off me, and I help people for a living.
You don't have to work for a corporation that makes other people rich.
>>652515
I do have a skill. I can scrap together 10,000 dollars.
Absolutely necessary was a stretch.
>>652518
That's not really what I'm worried about; there are probably plenty of non profits and volunteering things I could do that would bring me fulfillment. I would like to try Americorp at some point in my life.
I just want to learn all that stuff and realize the dream at some point.
>>652515
>most people
>produce less at work than you get paid
Of course you are aware that this isn't possible, at least under capitalism. Over the long term, under all economic systems.
>>652475
Yes it is possible to live off the grid and be mostly self sufficient. I don't believe a modern person can be fully self sufficient though, so you'd need to plan for some kind of income.
Expect a life of toil and strife. If you get any significant disease or even a routine infection, you'll have to shelve your self sufficiency while you attend to your recovery using modern medicine. Absent that, plan to die young.
>>652475
I'm a farmer, I have 0 debt. I get to shitpost on 4chan most of the day.
The first step is the hardest, getting out of all debt.
>>652570
For the most part, human bodies do pretty well on healing themselves. Especially those from hardy stock like dakotans, scots, norwegians, alaskans.
>>652569
Are you not aware of minimum wage or affirmative action etc. Most workers are a drag, carried by the few
>>652612
Thinking a person who works the land their whole life won't require a doctor at some point.
>>652475
go google 'self sufficicieny' so you can go out to the woods and die faster
>>652618
>Most workers are a drag, carried by the few
Why aren't they replaced by automation then?
>>652778
Cos at this point, theyre cheaper to pay than the machine that would do their job. And of course public outcry that would stem from the wide spread lay offs, its in progress though man, skeleton crews working self serve machines...
Anyway, op, read books about self sufficency, building, welding, cooking, gardening, learn all you can about all the skills you can, you have the internet and its the single greatest resource out there, just google what you want to know and start learning.
Figure out where you want to setup, how much land will cost, what youll need to do to make the land liveable, start researching now, start planning now and maybe in 1 or 2 years you can make a serious leap towards the life you want.
>>652778
Unions
Every shitty worker is in a union.
The unions lobby and harass businesses.
They should be replaced by automation. Thankfully, that is happening more and more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>652789
Man, i shouldnt lose my job because of the unions.
Im not even in the union.
Your an ass if you want people out of their jobs just because, i work fucking hard to do the best i can at my menial job.
>>652778
Because most jobs are not automatable. Let's face it women and minorities cost more and produce less than other workers. Look at the five foot tall female cops who are useless or women furefighters or military or engineering. If you have 5 men and five women doing a job you would have to automate them all to get rid of the women. And you are required to hire people based on skin color and gender or pay a fee to Al Sharpton or a fine or lawsuit will follow
The other aspect I didn't mention was taxes. Our government is spending over $20,000 per year per capita. Unless you pay that much in taxes (90% dont) then you are freeloading off those who do
>>652805
Why make it about gender or skin colour? What does that add to the argument? Don't get me wrong here, i agree that hiring people for the sake of diversity is fucking stupid but don't chalk incompetence up to gender or race, I've worked with plenty of lazy and stupid white guys. Bad workers are bad workers regardless of creed.
Yeah, currently some jobs cant be automated or can only be semi automated, i know, ive seen it in my industry.
Yeah, you've assumed we have the same government, in all likelyhood I'm not in the same country as you are. Also what is your definition of "Our government is spending over $20,000 per year per capita", on what/ in what capacity are they spending this money? (Curious not trying to be a dick here).
>>652475
You still have to pay property taxes, for which you will need income, which will cost you income tax. If you sell your goods to generate an income you will have to get a business license (another tax) and insurance (required for the license).
There really is no way to live off the grid. The government wont allow it.
>>652805
>muh feminist boogeyman
Back to whatever place it is that people use to tell people like you to go back to. (roddit/tumbleweed or something?)
>>652810
>I've worked with plenty of lazy and stupid white guys
This right here. I've seen far more incompetent lazy white guys than women or minorities but that's probably because there is a larger population of white guys in general. Obese black women on the other hand are pretty much guaranteed to always be not only lazy but complete cunts about it.
>>652907
>You still have to pay property taxes
Only if you own the land. You don't pay anything for public land.
> If you sell your goods to generate an income you will have to get a business license
Only if you are taking money and only if it is above a certain amount per year and only if ....well there's a lot of ifs and the long and short of it is you don't need a business license.
There's all kinds of loop holes. And the battle with them goes back and forth all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D73MJcEsFlE
>>652926
>You don't pay anything for public land.
As long as you're never found. If you are then they'll destroy your homestead and jail you for trespassing.
>>653071
Squaters rights dude.
>>652475
I keep seeing this notion of leaving technology behind to do everything manually. It doesn't have to be that way. What if technology could enable you to make it out there more easily? I've kept thinking about this. Bridging the gap between the self-sufficient old style farmer and the more recent life easing technologies is the way of the preferable future, the way I see it. Looking through innovations there's a whole heap of technology that could work for this purpose. Electric generators like wind, solar and hydropower work great. For food there are now vertical farms, cheap growlights in the form of LEDs, hydro and aeroponics which can be combined with biotecture waste management and/or aquaculture. Looking through history using the internet you can also see advancements for technologies which can prove to be very useful to you and you can also look up natural remedies, first aid, water treatment/purification and whatever else you may need.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIsHKrP-66s
>>652810
>Why make it about gender and race?
Because we are required to hire based on gender and race, same with school admission and scholarships even though they are inferior. It's a tax on white and asian men
The $20,000 is the average government spending per person. They spend it on military, social security, welfare, govt bureaucrats, foreign aid, handouts to moderate Muslim terrorists and illegal aliens and solar power companies. That's just the federal government.
>>652919
People who work at mcdonalds, the post office, the military etc are all parasites.
>>652475
OP you can do it. Read a lot, go prepared, and also you should bring a couple books on medicine food skills etc with you. Good luck, and even if you die young, at least you'll die happy.
>>653097
Because for our society to function properly, we need to give minorities a fair chance. If every business is own by whites, then most whites will only hire whites if they could. And where would minorities stand? They would see no need to be civilized if they can't be given a fair chance in their livelihoods.
>>653110
They have no reason to act civilized Because they are handed more every time they chimp out. It's why they are devolving
I love how 85% of this thread has nothing to do with self sufficiency, or outdoors, but is fullblown /pol/ tier race discussion. Get a grip m8eys, not everything in life is about the niggers. Let's talk farms n shit
>>653162
It usually starts off with a shitty op like this one
>>652612
Go ahead and inoculate yourself with Strep, or Aspergillus, and decline all medical treatment. Be sure to sign a DNR and have it notarized, keep it handy for when the EMTs come.
Let us know how it goes!
>>653162
Ok.
Dear anon,
I have this fantasy about some idyllic country life where I don't have to make any money, I just putter around in a garden and commune with nature.
Please assure me I won't die cold, hungry, and diseased. Tell me fantastic bullshit stories you read about someone somewhere who did what I aspire to and how great it was.
>>653255
Don't listen to this asshole you will have a great time relaxing in the sun. Look at how animals live carefree!
You won't shit yourself to death while crying.
The notion of working for someone else is strange to me. even if you have a skill like carpentry or metal working, or mechanic, you are always working or making something for someone else. Why isnt there an option to check out of society?
>>653288
Hermitage is an option, but not a good one for a naturally gregarious species.
>>653278
>Share your knowledge on self sufficiency topics, and cool wilderness survival stuff.
Your three most important tools are your knife, your mattock, and your towel. Your knife is obviously insanely handy, mattocks will both cut down trees and cut rows for a garden, and you can't be a cool frood without your towel.
>>653292
To be more serious on the gardening part, find plants you like to eat that grow well in your area. Use heirloom varieties if you want to save seeds. Experiment with several different varieties of the same plant (3 or 4 different hot peppers, for example) and get fresh seeds from the variety that did best for you to start with the pure heirloom strain the next year. Or keep the mixed seeds and see what you get. I'm into the third year of finding good garden corn for us. I planted several varieties in with each other and have saved the seeds from the best ears each of the last two years. This year's yield was better than last. We'll see what happens next summer.
Also learn which plants to rotate in after which plants to minimize pest problems and maximize yield. Same with companion planting. The three sisters are your friends. So is composted cow poo.
Carpentry, mechanics, masonry, metalworking, pottery, fermentation, and food preservation are useful skills. Get books, read them, then do some.
Learn first aid and medicinal plants.
Beer will be worth its weight in gold after the Russkis attack or the zombies come or whatever doomsday scenario you come up with happens.
Get a flintlock and learn to make black powder and cast bullets.
Don't stick your dick in crazy.
>>653162
Yeah man let's talk farms n shit. Like how can I get a farm and when I do get one what do I do with it. Can I grow stuff or raise animals? I don't have any experience and I've been in poor health the last few years but I need to make this work because my parents are kicking me out next week. They say I should be on my own by 30 and that was last year. Anyway does this sound like a good way to make money?
>>653303
>does this sound like a good way to make money?
Not just no, but hell no. If you haven't got land that's free and clear of encumbrance, you'll have a tough time starting out.
Most importantly, if you have basic questions like that, you don't know enough to give it a good chance of success. Go work as a farmhand for a year and see what you think before you try to buy a farm.
Alright lets get this puppy back on track.
Dont go off grid completely, thats stupid, keep a phone with the internet cos its a handy fucking tool and it can be cheap enough to factor into your expenses. Why? Because its useful, your gonna need a way to sell your wares, to get the money youll need to support your lifestyle, and the internet is a great place for that, or to find out where to do that like farmers markets and things like that.
Also, electricity is pretty handy, if you can have enough to run some lights and some basic tools, guess what, your life just became a lot easier, a drill press? A band saw? A drop/chop saw or a table saw, guess what, now you can make furniture at a semi industrial scale, furniture you can sell for disgusting amounts of cash to hipsters and trendy faggots of you brand it with tags like "handmade" and "artisan" and "ethically sourced reclaimed lumber".
Your gonna have a garden, so make it a good one, when it comes time, know how to save that food for later, learn how to make jams and jellies and preserves, learn how to pickle and dry and can because your going to be much more dependant on the seasons, which means there will be times of the year when you need food stores to make it through. Also, look into building yourself a poly tunell, plastic sheeting is cheap and having something like that gives you an place to grow food in shitty weather, also, look into plants that are perenials, plants that flower for multiple years, if you can plant it once and get 2-3 anual harvests from it then its going to cut back on your labour a bit.
>>653318
Cont.
Đont leave people behind completely, use them to allow you to live the life you want.
Whatever you do, straight up, its going to be hard fucking work for the first few years, the hardest fucking work in your life, breaking your back every day for what seems like no reward, but after a few years if you get your shit straight, if you plant the right plants and raise the right animals, if you setup the right systems itll all fall into place, ther'll be this lightbulb moment where suddenly you realise "holy shit this is the life i was planning for and im living it".
>>652518
>We have a board of directors that are not paid. My boss makes about the same as I do
is what the board of directors tells you
>>653295
>Beer will be worth its weight in gold...
I've always wanted to learn how to make beer, grow magic mushrooms, and grow marijuana.
In addition to that, I love growing carrots, tomatoes, asparagus, potatoes, sometimes flowers. I just like to grow shit. Growing shit is cool.
>>653361
Not the op but...
>using the word nigger in public
>losing your job
>your private life having any affect on your work life
I throw around a lot of casual racist slurs all the time, no one gives a fuck and if they do give a fuck, well i dont care...what? My words offend you...so what, your presence offends me...the fact that you think you have the right to restrict or control what i can and cant say based on your own delicate sensibilities offends me.
>>653384
Beer is neat...but spirits are where its at, also look into hobo and prison wine/hooch, that stuff is designed to be made with highly restrictive ingredients lists and its so disgustingly simple to make.
Growing shit is the bomb man, so satisfying growing stuff from seed...its like, man...i cultivated that, i nurtured that thing into existence, i made that thing live...so this is what god must feel like, planting that seed then seeing that little shoot burst forth is such a awesome feeling.
>>653403
Yes, I love the feeling of nurturing something into existence. I've never thought of it as god like before, but that is cool.
I had a friend that made that ghetto hooch. I never tried it myself, heard it wasn't bad though. That would be a cool thing to know.
>>653404
I planted some seeds like 3 days ago and theyre already sprouting (mustard and sorrel)...its so awesome, just dirt and water and sun and boom...life
There are a few good infographs on homebrew wine and the like, lurk diy, they usually come up there every 3 or so months, i think they have a homebrew general that is a wealth of information, i had a quick look but my files and folders are far to disorganised to find anything on the subject.
From memory its basically get some sort of fruit juice, apple or grape or whatever, some sugar and some yeast, mix it up, put it somewhere warm with a airlock on the top and leave it to ferment away, let it fizz and bubble, when the bubbles stop or slow, filter and bottle. You can do other stuff with secondary fermentation in the bottle to make it fizzy and carbonated but i know next to nothing about that so i wont comment on it.
I cant imagine the homebrew ghetto hooch being like top shelf alchohol but i mean, when it comes down to it id rather have a few bottles of that stuff than nothing. And the fact that you can make gallons of the stuff for a few bucks is allways a plus.
Build a self sufficency library, second hand books are cheap and there are sooooooo many how to books out there, cooking, medicine and first aid, building, home maintainance, gardening, learn all you can regarding practical applyable skills.
>>653079
trolling is a art
>>653361
Yeah, and this is 4chan, not work. The whole point of an anonymous image board is that you can say whatever you want without worrying about your reputation, you soft skinned cunt.
>>653251
Are you honestly saying you've never gotten over a strep infection without medical assistance? Your immune system is fucked man.
>>652475
>you work to make money for someone else,
If you feel that way you're doing it wrong. You work to make money for yourself and your labor is worth the market value of the skills you're bringing to the table.
>>653420
The legal term is, "Adverse Possession".
>A method of gaining legal title to real property by the actual, open, hostile, and continuous possession of it to the exclusion of its true owner for the period prescribed by state law. Personal Property may also be acquired by adverse possession.
Basically, it is a set of laws in the USA that allow you to passively or aggressively keep the real owner the fuck of the land.
>>653508
Adverse possession doesn't apply to government land my soveirgn citizen friend
>>653509
Back to Reddit you gay faggot
>>653425
Of course I have.
But strep kills many people every year, which causes us smart people to wonder why, since it doesn't kill many where we live.
Turns out if you give strep to someone with poor nutrition the odds of it killing them increase significantly. If that person has other non-life threatening afflictions such as parasites; secondary infections; injuries affecting mobility; etc, it increases yet more.
So yeah I guess I should amend my original post: Live on a diet of tree bark and weeds for a month, accumulate mosquito bites on top of mosquito bites, be host to various Rickettsia carrying Trombiculidae....then inoculate yourself with strep.
>>653404
Get a book called "the art of fermentation." He goes not only into beer, but hits pickling and making vinegar and other useful ferments. Get "the complete joy of homebrewing" for good beer information. It's been the gold standard in homebrew books for years. Then get a 5 gallon bottle of water from the grocery store to use as a fermenter, about $30 worth of equipment, $20 worth of ingredients, and start saving empty beer bottles. It's not exactly difficult to make really good beer. Keep a journal of all your ferments, beer and otherwise.
I fermented a bunch of red ripe jalepeno and San Felipe peppers from my garden with some garlic, salt, and just enough water to process them in a blender. God-tier hot sauce, friends.
>>652475
Amish folks live off the grid, it only takes 10 kids or so.
>>653424
This. We need to somehow reintroduce natural selection.
>>653424
>getting a strep infection in the first place
get on my level
>>653402
It is not my right to restrict what you say. But there are blacks that come here too and enjoy the things this board is all about. They didn't ask for you to use a demeaning word like that. The least I could do is ask you not disrespect them because they sure as hell don't deserve to be called that here.
/out/ is suppose to be free from the cancer from other board cultures, so why don't you not use nigger for no good reason?
>>652475
Don't feel down op, /out/ might not be the best place to ask right now. But take a look in the homegrown threads sometimes, people there are nice usually.
I think it would be pretty much impossible to start self suffiency without any knowledge, but there are some great proprams where you can gather some experience and get a feel for what you want to do.
Most places have some kind of voluntary service thing going which might be interesting for you. I don't know about America, but in Europe there are places like Ecovillages or transition towns which are looking for voluntaries and where you can learn really interesting things.
I think best is to start looking in your area, maybe just organic shops or markets or whatever and talk to people that seem nice.
I knew some guy like you who had pretty well paying tech job, but was super unhappy and finally just quit his job and started traveling and learning things to be closer to nature.
Good luck, you're not alone
>>653710
You have to socialize to get strep.
>>653510
They still can't legally toss you....if you have children.
>>652475
ive gone full circle. had office jobs for years, pitched it all and went to go live and work on farms in a beautiful part of the country surrounded by homesteaders for a few years, and now im back in the city getting office job again. two organic farms i worked on went bankrupt. that dream is dead now and i am trying to get plugged back in the matrix for money. being in my older 20's i see friends who stayed the course and now have decent little nest-eggs, are getting married, and are overall in a much better position in life than I am b/c i was a rolling stone. read up on it and chase learning about self sufficiency but be careful about it and be lucky. i wasn't lucky and now my youthful enthusiasm about it is gone
>>653741
Nigger is just an adjective. If they were called canadians you would assume that canadians are all lazy murdering rapists that play basketball. So its you that has a problem because you want to pretend apples are oranges. Why should I get upset that any group whether it be morons or feminists acts upset for being noticed as different?
>>653779
Great. I will bring my kids and squat the Lincoln memorial. Thanks for the tip
>>654170
Or do what 100s of other people do and squat in the back country.
>>653779
I don't know what idiot told you that, but the people who are gonna put your ass in jail and your kids in the foster care system won't agree.
>>653420
>trolling is a art
>a art
"an art" bro, but I see what you did there.
>>654219
>I don't know what idiot told you that,
Child services.
>>654289
No, trolling is defiantly a art.
>>652570
medicine is the modern slave owner, you are a slave to insurance, doctors, pharmacists, and whoever you get said coverage from. Including copay's, and yearly required pays.
Only possible if you are healthy(no medicine needed for health at all) and you have good family history of health.
Self sufficient people get almost all the exercise needed tending to crops/home/canning/etc.
Unfortunately, unless you have dependable financial pot and management of funds, taxes and other factors will return you to society.
Plan it like your retirement, pay off all debts, have money for medical shit, funeral expenses, and various tax increases(will happen one way or another).
>>653295
GOOD ADVICE AND WORDS TO LIVE BY.
P.S. if off grid, 12 volt electronics and anyway to remove brick converters will be necessary. Can EVERYTHING, self recycling, FARM YOUR TREES(those trees will generally die/disappear withing a decade or two), less batteries the better(even the best will last at most 2 decades if VERY underused). Insulation, proper protection of foundation and upwards, learn how to do shit yourself(how to work/bake/prepare/form clay/wood/food/grass(required in most places to be considered a home/cut a certain height))
Like all things, depends where you are doing all of this, local laws, how you are perceived by others, and if you are in a strategic location for oil/fracking/water/transport of goods/pipes,etc.
Treat off-grid living like early working retirement costs and startup wise.
>>652515
> happy holidays faggot
My sides fucking kek
>>652924
Go back to reddit you ass-autist
>>652475
Oh look it's this thread again.
Will people ever realize that gardens like the one pictured represent about 5% of the workload necessary to be nutritionally "self-sufficient?" The real struggle is with livestock, dairy, eggs, chickens, hunting, fishing, etc. Fat, protein, essential amino acids, iron, B12, calories. And finding enough hay/grain/grass/water and protection from the environment for the animals to develop these things in containment. That is how people really survive. No one ever becomes self-sufficient from gardening. It's what the women do at home once sufficiency is already attained by the men out hunting and farming.
>>654401
Only you can eat worms tho.
>>654401
It really isn't a struggle. Oh it might be for you, but it isn't for me. You only need to raise the right animals in the right way and it becomes easy-peasy. Anyone t hat say it is hard is quite ignorant of knowledge needed to do it correctly and easily or is an armchair farmer who knows nothing about it.
>>652805
>Our government is spending over $20,000 per year per capita
>Implying this is equally divided among individuals and the majority is not given to military, welfare, and corporate subsidies.
>>653092
This. This guy has it.
Just because you want to leave the system doesn't mean you have to become a "neo-primitive" or a luddite.
Let modern technology allow you to achieve your dream without the back-breaking shit life that most farmers had until modern times.
>>652618
And I assume you are the few.
>>653361
Look everyone, I've found one of the self-righteous cunts that looks for the green light to join in on publicly shame people on twitter because some reactionary dickhead took things out of context.
Fuck yourself you holier-than-thou piece of shit.
>>653741
Why would you allow a fucking word to have this much power over you.
Weakling.
>>653092
this. this. this.
Modern tech has its place. With it living a self sustaining lifestyle has never been easier. The trick is keeping the tech you have user-friendly, easy to understand, cheap to maintain and eco-friendly. You dont have to have a lot of it either, just where it makes difficult jobs, easier.
>>654474
No I'm a NEET
>>653799
>>652475
The best video I've ever seen on the internet, enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRo4SG8Pv2c
>>654401
We're not going to be totally self sufficient but even a moderate sized garden can still save your life by giving you important and uncontaminated nutrients that you can't get at the grocery store.
>>652907
Let's clarify a few things: In the US, property taxes are based on property value. A moderate amount of acreage with crappy access that hosts a shack with no amenities like running water or electricity isn't gonna cost much. A business license with no business name is $15. And if you're primarily providing for yourself, instead of shopping, sales tax is going to be negligible. So if that's all you're realistically paying in taxes, you don't need to earn more than a couple grand per year, which is under the poverty line and doesn't require income tax.
Totally doable to work part-time seasonally or sell some crafty bullshit or some extra crops. I recommend angora rabbits. They eat garbage and make fertilizer, meat and wool that's worth it's weight in gold.
Seriously. http://m.ebay.com/itm/Angora-Bolero-made-with-100-Angora-Rabbit-Wool-Fluffy-Handspun-Yarn-Size-Small-/161923522557?nav=SEARCH
>>653384
Beer, shrooms and weed were all being done long before civilized society. That's because it's insanely easy to do. Leave anything with sugar out for a few days and it'll start turning into alcohol. There's a reason why it's called weed, cuz it grows like one.
>>653704
Oh, if only.
>>654401
This is actually incorrect.
Sweet potatoes, white potato, taro, cassava and banana can be horticultural rather than agricultural staples. Taking the caloric needs of say pigs; fruit and nut crops from a small orchard plus excess tubers could support the protein and fat needs of a homestead family.
We could even extend this to tree and bush fodder for goats in grain bases systems that utilize corn with stalks at the end of harvest to supply even more fodder.
We haven't even gotten to compost worms and bees or other insect to directly or indirectly feed a gardener.
>>654444
Quads have spoken.
>tell us more
>>655272
So much this.
>>655321
Don't forget about coconuts if you live in the tropics. They literally have every amino acid and can keep you alive by themselves.
>>655265
What do you mean by uncontaminated?
>>655697
If its grown on a farm the nutrients are contaminated, you know, like with contaminants from the growing which contaminates the nutrients, you know from farms
>>655276
There was a thread on /k/ where a guy told how he made hard apple cider by saving apples from the mess hall and putting them in old jars under his bunk. No one ever caught on to him.
>>655272
You seem to have forgotten Obama's "you don't have insurance, so we'll fine the shit out of you and jail you if you don't pay the fine" tax.
Grow and sell dope for a living.
>>655788
You're right. I did forget. That does apply to most people, myself excluded.
Two ways around this: study or skilltrade horticultural medicine, or be a veteran and get your medical insurance covered. I do both, so I'll probably never see the inside of another non-VA hospital again.
>>655694
I hate coconut but yeah, surprisingly though after being on a homestead in the Pacific it occurred to me that really other than coconut water no one really ate them but that could be because everyone was white and mainlander where I lived.
People preferred pork and dairy.
>>655697
Probably ones that don't contain systemic pesticides.
