/selfsustain/
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You are currently reading a thread in /out/ - Outdoors
You are currently reading a thread in /out/ - Outdoors
Hey /out/. Does anyone here have the ultimate goal it be totally self sustainable off the grid? I have a pretty good life in society but I'm really getting sick of it. I think I'm going to start saving up my money for it.
Completely independent subsistence farming is actually really, really hard to achieve. Especially for a single person or a small family/group.
>>623852
How small are we talking? What about a group of say 8 people?
For an individual. I believe its be a lot of work, but totally possible. I would think that coming I to town to trade or buy supplies like anyone did for thousands of years.
That idea isn't unsavory. People need things that they can't make themselves. Unless you plan on having one person who specializes in a trade living with you.... Who might want to have their own house.... Who might live next to you... Oh wait, this is starting to sound less off the grid and More like A TOWN
So when you guys say "off the grid" do you mean completely disconnected from any community or do you mean not connected to any kind of centralized infrastructure?
>>623869
Centralized infrastructure.
>>623875
I like to say that eventually we'll see a return to agrarian culture following some big cataclysm (wwiii or asteroids, who knows) but I really think society has "come too far," so to speak. Meaning, "they" (or "it" depending on the scenario) could take out big chunks of infrastructure...But we're so connected and knowledgeable, it won't ever stay "out." Not for any real length of time.
That being said though, yes it's a good idea to practice self sustaining lifestyles. Learn something useful like tanning or carpentry, that way you'll be useful.
>>623917
You should read up on Rudolf Diesel, he was very pro-agrarian and didn't put too much faith in the fossil fuels industrial revolution, which is why the first diesel engines were designed to run on peanut oil. He wanted small farmers and manufacturers to be able to compete with the larger coal and oil powered systems.
But yeah, there's simply too much accumulated knowledge and development for us to ever get knocked back to the stone age, we'd get kicked back to the Victorian age at worst. Even if an EMP knocks out all the electronics in the world, steam engines would still work and there are still plenty of people who know how to build and maintain them.
Personally I think we're getting to a point where individual sustainability is going to be made more possible by new technology. Industrialization was a sort development hump we needed to get over, and doing that required huge, connected infrastructure networks. But now we've got the technology and the experience to start re-localizing things, which will be more resource efficient in the long-run.
>>623852
My mom and step pappie get to self-sustainment in two years.
>>623936
What's their set-up?
>>623843
Depending on where you live, could you just hunt/trap, or even keep livestock?
All that farming looks like a hassle.
My plan is to have an acre maybe to of trees. Blueberry bushes and the like on the understory. They produce in late spring. Figs and the like for a summer crop. Pears and the like for the late summer early fall. Pecans or other nut trees to finish it on out. Also a small annual garden. Chicken or ducks running around the place too. I'm gonna make it happen bruh.
Amerifags (like the continent, not just the US) intersted in small scale farming should look in to Pre-Columbian farming techniques. It usually revolved around small-patch, mixed-culture planting versus mono-culture field-style planting.
The most cited example is the Three Sisters. Planting patches of corn, beans and squash together.
The corn provides a support for the beans to grow own, the the beans replace nitrogen in the soil that the corn uses up and the squash provides soil coverage and helps keep weeds at bay.
Nutritionally, the corn and beans make a complete protein and the squash provides more vitamins and minerals.
>>623929
>implying being a cyber-cowboy isn't the best stage of society
>>623843
yeah but your gonna have to compromise based on your region
a lot of stuff we like to eat doesnt grow well where we live without significant inputs. And you need to be flexible based on changing seasons
You plant a field of cucumbers for pickling, it gets p.capsici, now you cant grow cucumbers. Not maybe i'll try agin, you don't. Thats how you end up with a bum harvest and you go hungry.
Tomatoes, potatoes, apples: all super fickle in the northeast, when years are bad they're real bad and need a lot of pest control.
Native stuff is best, hearty greens are good choices most places
>>623917
doesn't even need to be a cataclysm of the sorts you mentioned. Economies around the world have been pushing exponential growth for decades longer than they should, and we have perhaps 1 or 2 decades left before resource scarcity will bite and bite hard.
Limits to Growth is more than 40 years old but is looking more and more accurate in recent years.
My goal in the future is to have the means of self-sufficiency, even if I don't necessarily exercise it.
I should have space for a sustenance-garden, fruit trees in place, and the tools/equipment needed to hunt and preserve foods.
Since I make shitloads of money, there is no real economic incentive for me to grow my own food. The main benefits are food-security and (hopefully) food-quality.
>>623990
hi
>>623843
Just buy 100 hectars out in the woop woop with a river + not more than an hour to a town so you can buy what you cant make yourself.
http://mainehomestead-out.forumotion.com/
the dead out forum
Monitoring thread vigorously
>>623990
That's an interesting concept
>>624092
Pre-Columbian agriculture is actually a really interesting subject.
The Mayans were particularly good at water management and had very diverse and adaptive farming techniques.
>Start growing corn before summer
>All of them slowly die
>Start growing corn in October
>The corn is already 2 inches long in just a week
What magic is this?
>>623843
wish I could. Idk where to start. so I lurk here to slowly gather information
>>623843
Solar pannels , grow lights, stacks the vegetables upwrds by 3-4 rows. You now need 3-4 times less land and you have a constantly supply of fruits and veg regardless of the time of year.
I calculated this prior. You are gonna need a shit load of solar penels. The most expensive are the grow lamps but I didnt properly look you might find them pretty cheap.
>>624180
Are you talking about vertical farming?
>>623865
What's the backstory on this picture?
>>623843
Convert to being Amish. Done.
Apart from that, it's is a LOT of work and you won't have much in the way of leisure.
>>624462
Backstory is exactly what it looks like. Levee's built around a house to protect against a flood. Flood is Vicksburg, MS 2011.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388660/Mississippi-River-flooding-Residents-build-homemade-dams-saves-houses.html
>>623990
The beans (among other dicots) actually host a bacteria in a synergistic relationship where the bacteria converts atmospheric nitrogen into a plant available form and the plant roots offer a host. If we could get these bacteria to colonize on monocot roots we could grow corn with less nitrogen input. Not choosing your point, just adding to it.
>>624125
Google companion planting, there's lots of info out the on mutually beneficial planting strategies.
Most of it is based on pre-columbian techniques because about 2/3 of the species we grow for consumption were first cultivated in the Americas.
>>623990
I've wanted to do something similar, only I'd dedicate part of my operation to growing a few specialty/gourmet crops, like porcelain garlic or Mexican truffles.
I've had a long interest in wild berry wines, too. There was a big Hutterite population near my college and their strawberry wine was always a big deal at fairs and farmers markets.
I like the idea of the totally independent Jeffersonian Yeoman Farmer, but I also understand the reality of farming and being at the mercy of mother nature, so having something to sell or trade is a good idea.
Not a fully off the grid thing, but if you buy a grinder, you can pick up grain for livestock super cheap compared to human food. You can get 50 pounds of corn/oats/lots of other stuff for $12
>>623843
amen. i wish i was able to afford to do this right now.
>>623852
agreed, i personally know a dozen homesteaders in vermont that are lightyears ahead of 99% of the US population and are only sorta kinda maybe close to independence. i would argue complete independence is impossible today, one will always need to re-up replacement items and tools, engage in barter/trade, etc. the idea of people going and having a setup innawoods and doing it alone is ignorant. the REAL way to do it is embed yourself in an area or community with like-minded ideals and goals, and to contribute to the resilience of that community.
>>623990
in permaculture, that three-some is called a "guild" - there are very few of them
>>624104
I'm not sure if it was the Mayans or the Aztecs, but one of the native american cultures in south america had this huge garden built on top of a mountain that was basically an inverted pyramid.
They would plants strips of vegetables going up the sides of the inverted pyramid so they could learn what plants grow best in which altitudes.
>>625429
Sounds like the Incans, they were big on terracing.
>>624943
I don't get it, what is this picture explaining, how to safely compost human/animal waste?
>>625434
It was probably them, yeah. The funny thing is, I learned about it from that show, Ancient Aliens, the guy with the funny hair kept saying humans aren't capable of inventing stuff like that and the native americans where taught how to do it by aliens.
My mom loves that show, so I watch it on occasion while hanging out with her. I wish they had gone more into detail about the terracing and farming itself, rather than how much more advanced it was compared to the local culture at the time.
>>625439
>humans aren't capable of learning through observation and testing hypotheses
Did aliens do the enlightenment also?
>>623990
True, eating those foods together unlocks very, very healthy nutrients and amino acids. Beans alone are great, maize alone is great, but both together in the digestive system combine to make superfood (or so I read).
Once I get good at a bit of gardening, I'd like to try a 4m x 4m plot with this technique. It made Native Americans much healthier, sturdier, stronger and taller than Europeans for a long, long time. Those that survived the initial smallpox blow, that is.
>>625133
its also not human grade. That shit will have wevals and chemicals and shot and sprung grains everywhere pretty dangerous
I'm thinking about buying a huge property in Alaska when I can so I'll be ready for global warming :^)
>>626293
Dale, you gibblet head....
I wish being self sufficient was more simple, but there is a lot of effort you have to put into research just so you don't die in the first few months of starvation.
>>624008
The whole global warming caused by industry thing seemed suspicious. It looked like the rich trying to convince the poor not to aspire to their levels of consumption. I still think that is part of the reason behind the propaganda assault.
Here's a good idea lets tell the plebs Global Warming is their fault and make them pay even more taxes to fix it.
>Global Warming cannot be fixed
>The real problem will be industrial growth and massive population increases.
>No amount of taxes or liberal environmental laws will change anything
This site sold it for me, the most sobering part is the fact that no matter what type of energy used - fossil fuel, nuclear or 'green' - the problem is still going to be there.
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/
>>624812
doesn't this require any nutrients? how long is this sustainable for?
>>626951
Depends on your balance of fish and plants. Too many plants, and the fish don't produce enough emulsion to feed the garden, too many fish, and there isn't enough plants to filter out the emulsion and the fish literally choke on their own shit.
As far as how long it'll last, indefinitely. But you do have to feed the fish, and maintain the tank and whatnot. Its not free food.
I had a similar design I wanted to do. A food hopper on top, feeding chickens in the coop. Any dropped seed, as well as chicken manure would fall into a worm bin below that I would also use for composting. The well-Fed worms, as the population grew, would hop out of the suspended worm bin, falling into the 550 gallon in-ground tank, feeding the fish. Then the fish emulsion would be used to grow corn, soy and pumpkin which would be used to feed the chickens and fish. The nitrogen surplus provided by the soy helps to feed the corn and pumpkin, plus vegetables get most of their energy from sunlight, so at least in theory, it should be possible to get a few eggs each day and a couple of fish a week as surplus calories without reducing the efficiency of the system as a whole.
>>625436
Sounds like you get it. Composting solids and filtering liquids.
