four Wheel steering
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![integral-steering-system-explained-20848_5[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vE4NaKJ.jpg "integral-steering-system-explained-20848_5[1].jpg")
Why has this never become main stream like awd?
Adds lots of complexity and potential failure points for (relatively) little gain.
>>15407463
It morphed into something else, awd being part of that. For the Prelude, it went something like:
Mechanical 4WS -> Electric 4WS -> ATTS (SH)
Which led to SH-AWD
>>15407488
>prelude
CAN'T COMPETE
FF A SHIT
Well with in phase you stop turning after a certain point of time and you are not pointed at where you are heading, you are looking outside the curve, which is the opposite of what you want to do.
In other words, it is pointless.
>>15407463
extremely complex and expensive with little gain. It was offered as an option on GMT800 SIlverados and Sierras as an option known as "Quadrasteer". Wasn't popular given it was like a $5k option.
Probably too complex for the average driver to handle, plus it's not needed since front-steering cars are maneuverable enough as-is
That being said, that 4-wheel steering would be cool as fuck, and in-phase steering would be cool for lane changing and pulling hektik maneuvers
>>15407517
>front-steering cars are maneuverable enough as-is
But they can be even more maneuverable!
>In 1987, Road & Track published a test summary that shows the 1988 Honda Prelude 2.0Si 4WS outperforming every car of that year on the slalom, with a speed of 65.5 mph (105.4 km/h), even besting exotics such as Porsche and Ferrari. For reference, the 1988 Chevrolet Corvette C4 took the same course at 64.9 mph (104.4 km/h).
It's pretty common on heavy duty construction or large-sized specialty work vehicles.
The Japanese equipped it on a lot of their cars during the late 80's and 90's. Nissan for example with their HICAS system.
Recently Porsche has developed their own version dubbed 'active rear steering' and is available on some models from what I know.
>>15407514
My friend works at a Chevy dealership.
According to him, if someone comes in with a quadrasteer that needs repair, they're basically told to fuck off.
I bet you could do sick donuts in one though.
>>15407463
It's really expensive to put into cars. The 997 GT3 RS does it.
>>15407463
Thanks for pointing out which is front. Im sure no one wouldnhave figured
>>15407488
>led to AWD
Wow Honda I guess FWD is shit after all huh
They might make a comeback when we go full steer by wire
>>15407463
There are clear benefits with 4WS the 2 main problems are:
-No one knows how to exploit it/feels weird
-costs more
try driving a monstertruck. the rear wheels are controlled by a switch.
4WS with FWD would be a neat combo, counter-acting the bad traits with front driven wheels.
>>15407626
STOP
SHITTING
ON
FWD
>>15407488
FWD can compete... nothing could defeat Honda's engineering skills, not even the improper drive wheels
>>15407636
And yet they made their flagship RWD
>>15407642
RWD is better, but doesnt mean FWD can't compete
Nissan still uses HICAS
>>15407634
assmad civic owner detected, go back to your 'wraps and wheels' build.
What if they made a drivetrain that slowed certain wheels down as you made a turn?
>>15407674
that's called torque vectoring.
>>15407657
Stop making Prelude owners feel like shit
>>15407689
Prelude a best FWD desu
>>15407695
Can a Prelude compete?
Can a Prelude join the mid night club?
>>15407695
Too bad 4WS wasn't offered in 5th gen American market Prelude
>>15407636
>vintage willow springs
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG
makes me miss the old days of Riverside
>>15407702
True and the 4th gen ones were electric 4WS and pretty shit.
>>15407642
They put engine in the middle, of course it's not gonna be FWD. Besides, it's technically AWD, and front wheels have some borderline magic torque vectoring gubbins.
nissan has hicas I think subaru has something similar to in-phase steering, but both cars have a lot of pointless shit I think r33 has a diff that is controlled by ecu which usually just doesn't work apparently hicas is shit though
>>15407463
My brother owns an 89 prelude 4WS. Thing has amazing handling, and its got over a 1/4 million miles on the motor and it still gets 33 mpg... That being said i would never trade it for my Fox Body... His car is PATHETIC in a straight line. Plus every interior feature has gone out...
>>15407514
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMyeAyBqzzk
>turn the wheel all the way one way
>ebic donutz
also
>it can't skidz
>>15407558
>some models
all 911s
>>15407502
>I know better than literally every automotive engineer who designed every 4WS ever
>>15407463
Porsche is doing 4WS, but the rear wheels are not mechanically linked and are steered independently of each other for dynamic toe adjustment.
>>15407463
That's a option on the new renault megane, talisman and the laguna coupé
And it's on the porsche gt3 also
>>15407463
> trying either of those options at 35+ MPH
> the car rolls immediately
>>15410227
>reading the thread
There are a number of real cars that do exactly that, and they've been around for decades now.
>>15407970
I remember this
>>15410150
The 928 had a form of that.
>>15407463
I can see counter-phase steering being a problem for people not used to it. Pull out of a tight parking space and turn. Your back end swings the other way and if you are not watching for it, you scrape the car next to you.
>>15407463
Probably due to costs, both to design and implement, as well as maintenance/reliability, because you have more pieces that eventually fail.
I hear more stories of people opting to disable 4WS on 90's cars then leaving it on.
If anyone is interested, Jeep concepted a dual engine 4WS, that used the twin driveshafts to balance or some shit
>>15407502
the rear wheels have a slower turn speed as well as reduced angle, in-phase is only useful for highway speed overtaking, in my opinion, unless its high enough to go offroad, then its ok for going over rocks and shit
>>15407463
> BUT WHAT IF IT GOES WRONG
> IT REQUIRES ELECTRONICS, AND ELECTRONICS FAIL
> WAT DO IF IT FAILS
Otherwise, it's a great idea but you can't trust normies with anything.
No one mentioned here the dodge stealth somehow
Shit had 4wheel steering, awd, manual and twin turbo 6 cylinder what a legend
>>15410596
they are amazing cars when everything is working properly. problem is having everything working properly.
>>15407463
If it was mechanical, it was similar to figuring out issues with a front rack and pinion except now you have two. If it was electrical, well then you were fucked.
>>15410596
3000GT or Dodge Stealth?
Chicken or egg?
>>15410596
back in the late 80s when throwing as much technology into a sports car as possible was japan's game
Renault 4-Control :
Renault Laguna III
Renault Megane IV
Renault Espace V
Renault Talisman
I keep thinking of chopping up two FWD shitboxes, linking and reversing the steering to the "rear", reversing the gears on the "rear".
It wouldn't be able to run without blasting eurobeat.
>>15410982
? The Stealth is just a 3000GT that Mitsubishi put different sheetmetal on for Dodge. It wasn't even built in America.
>>15410967
It's not hard if you aren't retarded. All the fancy gizmos are actually very simply implemented.
>>15407463
i did not know this when i bought it but my 04 denali truck has this
its weird
>>15412816
I think a Lemons team did this already.
>>15412836
How did that go?
I don't know shit about cars I just pop my head in here once in a while when I'm bored.
Honestly I thought I'd get laughed at for posting what I assumed was the equivalent of "y can't u use grease to make boolit go faster in regular guns"on /k/ or something
> owned 3g 4ws prelude
> during the time they were weirdly popular on o
> sick turning radius
> reduced understeer on corner exit
I remember squealing the tires on the corners of a mountain road with my friends and letting a sheriff pass and then going back to 9/10 mode a few seconds later.
>Ff eh shit
Well I did keep up with or pass with my own merit Miatas and 240sxs and single can vtack civics
>>15412849
Found it, behold the actual 4WD MR2:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/03/two-engines-equals-twice-as-good-toyota-mr2olla/
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=8787&p=1
They dont need 4ws when torque vectoring exhists
>>15412836
Some guy made a 400 hp awd prelude by putting another engine in the rear. No reversing required and both engines synchronized as much as possible. Weighs a lot though but he can probably put all 400 hp down
>>15412885
Doesn't change turn radius of boats in parking lots or negate understeer without the aid of suspension. It just kills the fun before it happens.
> what is a lsd
>>15412895
>>15412878
Ha awesome
any videos of these things?
The idea of putting two FWD and reversing one was more to give it firetruck steering.
>>15410315
The 928 literally had a spring to change toe under load.
It's not magical, and it's not 4WS. All it did was "stabilize" the car under cornering.
>>15407558
also get ready for it to proliferate at cadillac and gm from CT6 on down (and up)
>>15413132
samefag here
not actually op, that was a mistake
sorry op
>>15407642
>And yet they made their flagship RWD
and they charged 4-5 times more $ for it
>>15407463
Because it's adding more parts that will eventually fail/need replacement for something that is not a problem and doesn't need solving.
AKA it's a waste of money.
>>15407463
A lot of people pointed out technical reasons but I don't think it's technical at all. It doesn't benefit you much on highways and in daily use the only thing it helps is probably parallel parking which is something you don't have to do in North America unless you live in NYC or SF and only the North American market matters in automotive industry.
>>15413195
The majority of living humans parallel park fairly regularly.
>>15413225
> majority of living humans
>>15413195
>something you don't have to do in North America
And maybe where you live, but I almost never need to parallel park. It's rare I ever need to even park on a street.
>>15413225
But they're "don't care" for automotive industry. Seriously, car usage rate in US is about 100%, while in Europe it's at max 60 or something. Why would they care what they want? They can learn to do their mystic rituals with whatever tool they have.
>>15413195
what is china? it's not like it's the hottest market right now or anything
>>15413225
I haven't parallel parked since I took my driving test and I live outside LA.
>>15413240
Do they even allow American or other cars to be imported? I think they only allow them to set up their factories in China and design a car specific to Chinese. So they're not that relevant either when considering the whole market.
>>15407463
torque vectoring
>>15412906
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZ2RICntUE&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YKrc3Pkes
>>15413255
they do but there is a tax on them. you can pretty much buy whatever you want
>>15413248
That just means you're a neet.
>>15413687
Ok nigga
>>15407463
Acura kinda has something like this now. It's called P-AWS it angles the rear wheels to decrease the turning radius and brake quicker.
>>15410596
So did some versions of the 300z
>>15407463
There were quite a few mid 2000's SUV's that it was optioned on.
