Alright /o/, we need a new family bus. Something that'll fit two babby seats and a rather large dog in the back which our current CL9 Accord Euro comes up short (otherwise we'd simply keep driving that).
I've narrowed the potentials down to these pictured with the KJ Jeep as an outside chance, although if the right 3.2 TDi NP, NS or NT Pajero came along at the right price, that'd trump the lot. It has to be a diesel (gas V6s in these models are either too thirsty or don't exist in my market) and her rules are it has to be a manual (which I'm more than happy to oblige).
Admittedly, a mid to large crossover faggotmobile would fit out purpose perfectly as I already have the go to 4x4 in the form of an NL Pajero, but then resale is somewhat of a consideration (higher mileage 4x4s are more sought after than higher mileage faggotmobiles) and the diesel 4x4 wagons I mentioned are better on fuel than even 2-2.5 litre four cylinder lifted shitboxes. I may consider a Series 3 Forrester XT, but that's just about the only acceptable crossover I could think of.
For what it's worth, I'd be doing the wrenching and deleting any of the emissions shit that potentially shortens engine life (no testing here).
Any vehicles I've missed? Any anecdotal horror stories based on my inclusions? In Upside down convict land with a budget of around $15k Ausfaggot bucks. I'd happily rock a station wagon, but options that include a three pedal operated gearbox are limited... Apparently Holden decided the only way into a manual VE-VF sportwagon is going with an SS. Shame, as an SV6 wagon would've fitted the bill nicely.
>>15299997
what coutry ya poof
Ford Flex awd v6
>>15300001
was going to recommend this as well
>>15300001
>what coutry ya poof
>>15299997
>In Upside down convict land with a budget of around $15k Ausfaggot bucks.
Helps if you read the post you're responding to.
1. Ford Flex aint available here (Ford are still selling the Falcon based Territory)
2. Ford Flex doesn't have a proper gearbox anyway AFAIK.
Just buy the crossover cuckbox.
You're forever cucked to your kids now, so you might as well get over yourself.
Lower resale will work itself out with lower purchase price and cost of ownership
>>15299997
Get two miatas
>>15300068
Gut one miata and tow it behind the first miata
>>15300065
>You're forever cucked to your kids now
...You either don't understand the term "cuck", or you have a very interestingly perverted view on your own children (which I prsume you don't have).
Lower cost of ownership of said faggot mobile has been put into considered.
>>15300075
That still leaves the pooch without a seat. Maybe if one of the Miatas is a shooting-brake.
>>15300090
>put into considered
into consideration*
Now I'm a cuck who can't spell.
either the prado 120 or a 4th gen pajero
>>15300579
Out of the "midsize" 4x4 SUVs, the 120 Prado has the engine of choice (1KD verses the belt drive of the Challenger's 4D56 and the peaky Nissan YD25 of questionable longevity), although the Challenger has a bigger drivetrain and standard rear difflock (although is quite agricultural inside) and the Nissan has what I presume better road compliance (never driven an R51 Pathy, although I'd imagine a D40 Navara with double wishbone all round).
At the expense of marginally larger external dimensions, the Large size Pajero has the best of all the previously mentioned examples, and I could simply stock up on bulk oil filters between this and my car. Although finding a reasonable milage 3rd or 4th gen in our price range is the challenge.
>pic unrelated, but interesting none the less
>>15299997
Toyota will give you the least problems. Stay away from Jeep, they're POS
>>15299997
I've got a pathfinder, it's decent. Have done centre muffler delete, snorkel, chip, egr delete, provent, 32" muddies. Gets 10l/100 mixed driving. Comfy, decent power, nice manual box, 6 speeder. I bought it with a blown head gasket (blocked radiator) and put a new head on, this is fairly common for them.
>>15300648
I'm still toey with the idea of buying a 10 year old Chrysler, although everything I've read so far points to the VM Motori built 2.8 CDI being brilliant in terms of performance, economy and longevity. It's just the rest of the car that deteriorates around it.
That, and the boot space is pretty small. It's fit the pooch, but not much else.
If the KJ "Heep" is a goer, it'd cop a GDE Eco tune that deletes the EGR function ASAP.
>>15300651
Sounds like it hits all our objectives. And while I've heard horror stories about the YD25, most, if not all were routed back to emissions systems failures which it sounds as though you've sorted. Did you find it laggy before and/or after the chip or did the chip help sort that?
The R51 Pathys look shithot too IMO.
>>15300675
I'm actually a mechanic, the amount of issues we have with jeeps is insane, mostly electrical stuff on that era.
I did find the pathy laggy and peaky before the chip, it is much better after. Torque builds a lot earlier, will pull from just over 1k.
Most of the issues with the yd25 were as you say, plus overheating, as they commonly block radiators, and snap the plastic fitting off at the firewall, and idiots continue to drive them until they stop. I agree, they do look good, heaps of room too. Suspension is probably a little too soft in the rear.
get the pajero
turbo diesel
it's bad ass
>>15300684
the path is kinda laggy because the intake has a pipe that is in rubber or something and when boost come it just inflate on the 2.2 diesel at least
>>15300675
they look fine plus the gen after has no offroad abilities
>>15300684
Good stuff. Apart from the tyres, sounds as though your wagon is just the thing we're looking for.
Another silly question, do you know if yours is one of the early Spanish or later Thailand built wagons?
>>15300700
No argument here, I love the 4M4x engines.
>>15300706
>they look fine plus the gen after has no offroad abilities
The exact reason I wouldn't consider one, even if they were in our price range.
I like my Pathfinders based on Navaras, not Altimas.
>file name
>>15299997
A ford Excursion is the only correct answer.
>>15300730
this or a land cruiser
>>15299997
>Jeep Liberty
Ever sat in one of these? The mother of a girl I used to date bought one and loved it, because she's almost a midget, but it is bizarrely cramped inside. My knees hit the glove box in the front seats.
Plus there's the whole Chrysler thing.
>>15300730
Not an option.
>>15300892
The problem with a Landcruiser is we wouldn't get much for our budget. To find a factory turbo diesel we'd be looking at something over 20 years old.
That, and I already drive something agricultural enough (which is the biggest hurdle for the Mitsu Challenger mentioned in OP).
>>15300958
Noted. I haven't sat in one yet, but the cargo space seems as though it'd be too small anyway.
>>15300645
if you're getting the prado get it with the 4.0l v6. Best petrol engine out there. Runs on cheap gas, chain driven, dohc, lots of hp and sufficient torque, extremely reliable.
The pajero engines are pretty solid as well. The 3.2 diesel is one of the best diesels out there. The 6g75 mivec is a badass but it's not as good as the 1gr, although it gets better mpg it requires premium fuel.
The pajeros angles are far better than that of the prado. The prado has a solid rear axle. The pajero has an integrated frame. The prado has a bof. Only difference is the pajero's frame is welded to the body. They weigh about the same.
First picture: prado 150 angles and wheel travel
>>15300645
>>15301384
pajero nx angles, clearance and wheel travel on sea level.
c1 - front axle
c2 - rear axle
d1 - minimal clearance under base
d2 - minimal clearance under frame
>>15300645
>>15301402
pajero nm/np chassis
>>15300645
>>15301417
Nissan pathfinder angles, clearance and wheel travel.
>>15300711
Spain built. Apparently there is a big difference in fuel consumption between year models. Very early 05/06, and late 2010 onward have good economy, the few years in between have poor economy.
>>15302490
I have noticed the engine upgrade came around 2010, where the YD25 went from around 130 up to 140kW, and about 10-15% better economy to boot. Not sure sure if it was a hardware change or simply tuning.
Similar with Pajeros, when changing from the NS to NT model going from 125 to 147kW with the 4M41 with similar economy benefits.
Though budget will be the deciding factor in what we have access to.
>>15301384
Thanks for the informative posts.
Outright angles and off-road performance isn't priority, as the NL Pajero I already own is on hand for the rough stuff. Think of this as the runabout that doubles as the comfortable long distance tourer that doesn't limit us to the black top.
Fuel economy is of huge concern, which is why gas engines are out of the question. And higher mileage diesel 4x4s maintain resale better. In Ausfaggot land diesels aren't as expensive to own as they may be in other global markets.
Out of curiosity, source on your clearance/travel pictures?
Landcruiser
>cl9 accord
pics pls
>>15302737
Yeah, the new engine actually has a completely different head, intake manifold, electronically actuated turbo, injectors etc. I don't think you'll get a 2010+ within your budget though.
The did pajeros are a nice bus as well. Prado's you won't get anything halfway decent in your budget. The Challenger 2.5 isn't my idea of a good time, plus they are a bit more agricultural and I don't personally like the interior.
>>15302737
source is a russian offroad car website called offroaddrive.su
why would you need a body on frame vehicle for that purpose? A subaru outback perfectly suits the description of what you need.
Also second gen pajeros look fucking beast. They met widespread use as russian mob cars in the 90s and are nicknamed terminators here. Keep that monster running, friend.
>>15299997
Stop trying to be cool with your kids and dogs. Get a minivan, you'll thank me later. Trust me, packing and unpacking all that shit into a truck/suv sucks.
>>15303717
Outbacks have shit fuel economy, resale isn't as good, and petrol is more expensive than diesel here.
GET
A
WAGON
UNLESS YOU WANT TO OFF ROAD WHY GET A SUV YOU DUMB MOTHER FUCKER
WHY WOULD YOU NEED MORE THAN A SEDAN ANYWAY
IT'S LIKE THE ONLY SIZE CLASSES THAT EXIST FOR THESE PEOPLE ARE COMPACT AND KEKUV
JESUS CHRIST
>>15303989
outbacks will have much better fuel econony than those two ton 4x4s, and op can get a relatively new diesel ouback for the price of a used prado or paj. I honestly don't see the big fuss between going diesel or petrol.
>>15304289
His budget is $15k Australian. You will not in your wildest dreams get a diesel outback for that money. The petrol outbacks actual drink more than these 2ton diesel 4wds. Diesel is also cheaper than petrol. Diesel 4x4s also have crazy resale value here. I literally just told you the reasons why. Outbacks are also gutless.
>>15304479
I had both a 1gr j120 and currently drive a 6g75 nx and they average at about 17-18l/100km. 12-14l/100km on the highway and about 22-24 in the city. I wouldnt call the numbers abyssmal, but the 1gr would run on 87, 89, 91 and 92 octane no problems; although the pajeros mivec does require premium it makes up with a bit better fuel economy, basically same numbers as a 6g72.
I don't get the fix on diesels. What's wrong with running a perfectly good, powerful, torquey and reliable petrol? Op already said he has an nl, which I'm going to guess is a 4m40.Why does he need a diesel for city driving?
Name a better wagon than the outback.
>>15304730
Those are fucking terrible figures. I get approx 10.5l/100 from my lifted dual cab 4x4 4jh1 rodeo with a canopy on. 10l/100 from my yd25 pathfinder with 32s. Also noone wants to buy petrol 4x4s.
>>15304817
And you talk about gutless? diesels are as gutless as they get redlining at 3k rpm.
Y62s dont even get diesels anymore.
>>15303717
The outbacks are too short in the cargo space for pooch, floor is too high (I gather the clear the diff and a spare wheel) and the roof is too low in the last couple generations.
Fuel economy isn't that crash hot for something as under performing as the petrol and I'm not convinced of Subaru diesel longevity... And finding one with a proper gearbox isn't happening. Even a Forester only just has enough space for pooch, and nothing else which is difficult when you new to take a pram. I wouldn't mind a 5 speed series 3 Forester XT though. I could justify the extra fuel consumption for a reasonable amount of performance. We'd still be limited in where we could take a Subaru too.
Fuel figures for the petrol 4x4 wagons you mentioned are abismal, and discounted purely based on that. I'd happily take another turbo diesel as the runabout provided it has proven longevity.
>>15304054
Find me a wagon that's not too old and has a three pedal operated gearbox available in my market. As I said in OP, I'm open to that option if there is one.
>>15304289
They get about the same, if not worse fuel economy. For similar economy if take the more serviceable and capable 4x4 option.
>>15304730
I have no issue with owning more than one diesel daily driver. I'd be able to stock up on bulk 20 litre drums of Diesel engine oil whenever it's on sale to boot.
And yep, the NL is indeed a 4M40-T. I'd love a 4M41 Paj to park along side it.
>>15304942
I don't think you know what gutless means. Also they don't redline at 3k. I'd hate to be towing anything decent with a petrol, would have to rev it's box off and get even worse economy.
At the current price of petrol around here, you would be paying $26 to go 100km in the petrol, $11.90 to do it in my pathy. I know what I'd prefer.
>>15305041
>The outbacks are too short in the cargo space for pooch, floor is too high (I gather the clear the diff and a spare wheel) and the roof is too low in the last couple generations.
Unless you have the biggest dog alive, no. There is more than enough room in the back of an Outback for a dog.
>>15299997
The Toyota. his shouldn't even be a question. Not even a major Toyo fanboy but the Jeep is a joke and the other two Japanese vehicles aren't as refined nor as reliable as the Toyota.
>>15305092
For "a" dog maybe, but not a 50kg Mastif. Not the "biggest dog alive", but still too tall for the space of an Outback. As I said, a S3 Forester is only just big enough.
And why would I bother with a troublesome diesel or a petrol that uses more fuel than a diesel 4x4 that actually has something in the realm of capability and space, and still slow? If the Subaru Forester has any redeeming factors, I'm all ears.
>>15305082
My train of thought exactly. If it was smaller, like the Grand Vitara we were originally considering before we realised compact SUVs weren't going to cut it, I'd be happy with the ~10L/100km the 2.4 4 cylinder petrol uses as opposed to the Renault diesel powered option.
>>15305041
Nissan Stagea.
>>15305082
A n/a non-vvti 1gr has around 240-250hp and 370-380nm of torque. Extremely reliable no bullshit engines: no turbos, no fuel pumps, no intercooler bullshit, no freezing up at -20. A bit of petrol guzzler.
The latest yd25 probably has something like 170hp and 400nm of torque.
>>15305209
Believe it or not, we've considered it. There was recently an immaculate original looking Autech version in South Australia that was close to our budget, and if it was in the same state as us, I would've pushed my case for it even if it was a 17 year old car now and still a bit thirstier than we'd like.
Otherwise manual versions of Stagea are hard to come by.
>>15305244
Still too thirsty for us, and -20 degree starting isn't an issue in West Aus. I can see why someone would prefer a petrol six cylinder 4x4, as they have plenty of legs and love being unwound up the beach and climbing long dunes. But I'm more into controlled pace tractor like grunt, with a turbo that provides torque as you need at what ever RPM you're at.
>>15305363
>pushed my case for it
Or you could stop being a fucking vagina and buy a car with your money without having to ask permission.
>>15305386
Don't know if you actually read the post you responded to Mr Shitlord, but the biggest thing stopping us is it's located and registered in another state.
>your money
It's "our" money in which we both earn. I only earn the majority as my boobs don't work, so she she's limited in the hours he can work. She more than pays her way by looking after bub.
Worth noting she's into her turbo performance cars, and her previous vehicle to the CL Accord was actually a 5 speed JZX100 Chaser, so she wouldn't take much, if any convincing if it was in our favour.
>>15305456
>shitlord
>our money
Jesus christ just fuck off you faggot cuck.
>>15305456
i don't have a joint account with my wife because she earns her money and i earn my money
>>15305244
1gr has less torque than that, and it's peak is at 4000rpm. Yd25 peak is at 2000. If I wanted something I have to rev and that guzzles fuel, I'll just buy another rotary. When I want to toe a fuel tanker everywhere, and pay $20k a year in fuel, I'll buy a petrol 4wd.
>>15305607
Output is 236 hp (176 kW) at 5200 rpm with 266 lb·ft (361 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm on 87 octane, and 239 hp (178 kW) at 5200 rpm with 278 lb·ft (377 N·m) at 3700 rpm on 91 octane
straight from wikipedia. My tech passport had it registered at 240hp.
Why does op need two cars for towing? OP get a petrol, rev up that engine, cut people off in traffic.
>>15305656
So not only does it guzzle fuel, you bow have to run it on 95 to get the rated power output. Sounds just swell.
More than doubling your yearly fuel bill sounds like great fun!
>>15305567
K.
>>15305656
Don't necessarily need two cars for towing, although given some thought they would actually both pull a trailer regularly.
That's not what's stopping me from getting a petrol V6 as they tow just fine anyway. It's economics, and I can get away with a diesel cheaper than I can a petrol for the size wagon we're looking at whilst having something still worth something after piling on 400+ thousand kilometres.
>>15305682
no. I used to use mostly 91, 92 octane.
>>15305690
toyotas have the best resale value here. especially prados. get a j120.
>>15305734
No arguement against the Prado's resale. That's the main reason we're considering one.
I'd be specifically looking at later 1KD powered examples as I feel the 1KZ leaves a little to be desired.
>>15305734
>no. I used to use mostly 91, 92 octane
Then you aren't getting the rated power, as it states in the wiki you pasted. 91 in yank land is our 95.
>>15305807
Is it even possible to get a 1kd Prado for $15k?
>>15305923
our 98, 95 is premium. 92 is american 91. 70c per litre
>>15305931
Are you not ausfag? Yank 89 is our 91/92.
>>15305941
russian
>>15305923
>Is it even possible to get a 1kd Prado for $15k?
Doesn't look like it. Didn't realise until just now, but it seems as though the 1KD wasn't available in the J120 until 2007 which pushes them out of our price range. On that note, I think we can safely strike the Prado from the list.
>>15305952
That explains it then. I and OP are ausfags, if filled up on the weekend with premium diesel for $1.19, while 91 was $1.30, 95 would be approx $1.42, 98 $1.55. So when you have a car that uses twice the fuel, it gets bloody expensive to run a petrol 4wd
>>15306062
Yeah thought they were a fair bit later.
>>15306147
diesel is cheaper here too. But the problems and cost of a diesel engine negate the lower consumption. Alot depends on the quality of the diesel fuel itself, but there are just so much more things that can go wrong in a diesel compared to a petrol engine, especially when comparing it something like the 1kd to the 1gr. And when a diesel goes wrong fixing it is gonna cost you.
>>15306418
Diesels are fine, servicing cost is the same or less than a petrol. No spark plugs to replace. I've replaced more 1gr engines than I have yd25s. People get complacent because "lol Toyota", extend the services by 5000kms, and the GR engines sludge up like there is no tomorrow. The big ends then get no oil, and they throw rods. 1grs are actually very expensive to buy here for that reason. Swings and roundabouts. Here it makes more sense to get the diesels.
>>15299997
Get a wagon normalfag
>>15306418
The "problems and cost of a diesel" aren't an issue. I'll be servicing and wrenching myself, and removing, bypassing or fixing any of the potential lifespan shortening emissions related components. Fixing a "wronged" diesel to me is no more a daunting task than fixing a wronged V6, although I have more faith in whatever diesel option I choose staying out of the wrong longer than a petrol equivalent would.
>>15306436
I'll direct you to >>15305041
"Find me a wagon that's not too old and has a three pedal operated gearbox available in my market. As I said in OP, I'm open to that option if there is one".
Make a suggestion that hasn't been mentioned and I'll tell you whether it'll work for us or not.
>>15299997
Land cruiser
>>15306798
Given the only turbo diesel example you can find for that money is an early nineties 150hp single cam HDJ80 with almost half a million kilometers, Landcruisers have already been discounted.
Seriously, second hand Landcruisers in Aus seem to have developed their own economy in the last 5 years.
