LS THREAD
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Is the LS the best budget engine ever?
>10 grand build can get you over 600hp
>v8, sounds nice
>Pretty fucking easy to put together yourself and easy to wire
>Large turbo
>piping
>intercooler
>a few sensors and whatnot
>larger injectors and fuel pump
>ecu
>larger radiator perhaps
Literally like +$3-4k if you can weld
>>15226409
i like the 2jz mate but where the fuck are you getting a 2jz-gte block and all the parts for under 10k?
they're only getting rarer and rarer
>>15226409
>heavy as balls
>>15226418
Are you high? An imported motor is only 3k
>>15226425
I kinda have to agree with OP.
Say you get the motor for 3k, you're then going to have to buy turbos for 600hp, say you get a good price, another 2k right there.
All the bits and bobs, a ecu, radiator and you're quickly approaching the price of the LS.
You'll make the same power but the LS will make more torque and quicker since it won't have to spool, and sound better.
Oh and it's light as fuck.
>>15226381
A junkyard aluminium block 5.3 will be just as easy to get to 600hp, at an even lower price.
>>15226409
You can't fix the iron block pigfat though, and neither can you fix that straight six weight distribution.
>>15226418
Not to mention you can't find automatic transmissions that aren't weak slushboxes, or manual transmission that are as cheap as a T56. Hell, in some cases, it's cheaper to buy a T56 and an adapter plate if you want a manual 2JZ swap.
![2133616915_fa58ca2cbe[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lOD0orw.jpg "2133616915_fa58ca2cbe[1].jpg")
Modular is better because Ford is GOAT.
>>15226409
>>15226425
Fucking normie's going for a meme 2jz
Not thinking of the god tier all aluminum 4.2 vortec in line 6
>>15226480
>>15226381
>10 grand build can get you over 600hp
If you're really budget-minded, you can get to 600hp with just 4 grand.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1104-594hp-53l-gen-iii-small-block-for-3252/
>no intercooler
>594hp
Add an intercooled or meth injection, and that thing will make 600.
>inb4 iron block
Aluminium 5.3's exists, and go for roughly the same price as iron ones.
>>15226473
Pic related.
Modular are almost the size of a big block - and you have to actively try in order to not make 700hp with a blown big block. Try that on a DOHC 5.0.
>>15226418
I wasn't including the price of it, but it'll still be under 10k otherwise.
Excuse my ignorance but why doesn't toyota make the 2jz anymore? I like straight six and v-8. What's going on?
>>15226512
Because V6's get better weight distribution. Their center of gravity is way less ahead of the front axle line, which moves a lot of weight backwards, removes the tendency to understeer etc.
>>15226512
I don't know why they don't make the engine and sell it to whoever would want to put it in their project car as a swap or whatever.
It would still make them a profit I imagine, and it's better than digging up old 2JZ's only to blow them the fuck up and lower the numbers even further.
Don't have to put them in any new cars, just make them available how Chevy offer the LS7 and perhaps other engines ?
![titanmotorsports_2269_895072067[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Dy2geqK.jpg "titanmotorsports_2269_895072067[1].jpg")
>>15226487
1FZ-FE is gudder
>>15226381
That's not the 302 Windsor
>>15226453
Why use a T56 when the W58 is strong enough and a factory Toyota trans? inb4 MUH SIX SPEDE
>>15226381
if you spend 10k for only 600hp its a shit engine
LS manages to be one of the worst sounding V8s ever
so is literally everything
LS is a shitty meme
>>15226512
>why doesn't toyota make the 2jz anymore
Fuel Economy, weight and size.
L6s are too long for Current Year cars
>>15226567
>if you spend 10k for only 600hp its a shit engine
that includes the engine and mods, most of the 10k is for the base engine.
>>15226381
No, best budget engine would be the 4A-GE silvertop, you can find the fuckers on eBay for 600-800 just for the engine alone
>forged conrods
>forged crank
>20V head
>Revs to the moon and back
>takes boost like your mum takes cock
>>15226573
>4A-GE
Why do you hate reliability and instant torque?
>but muh revs
Irrelevant
>>15226577
>irrelevant
Of course you think it's irrelevant when you can't even rev over 5.5k anyways
>MUH TORKS
That's what twin-scroll turbos are for genius
>>15226565
>302 Windsor
>>15226585
>twin scroll
>on par with N/A response
>out of a 1.6L
>to make 600hp
top lel
>>15226381
>sounds like shit
>looks like shit
>it's the wrong fucking brand unless it's a GM product
>is the no fun plug and play option
>>15226570
but I could get a 302 for a couple hundred and get the same power for less using a blower
>>15226619
Same can be said for an old 350 or a Vortec Block.
>10 grand build can get you over 600hp
A LS376 6.2L Crate engine makes 525hp for $7k. That's a new engine, how you can only get around 600hp for $10k is insane. You can build up a 4.8L and boost it for less than $10k and get 1,200hp.
>>15226597
I know you're shitposting, but they've been built, also the cars they go in aren't pigfat 3500lb pieces of shit either
>>15226634
You won't get the throttle response you're looking for unless you go with a sequential setup.
It's like you think you know shit, but N/A is instant, I would understand if it were for a 2.5L even better a 3L engine which is why it works well for the 2jz, but for anything under 2L making more than 400hp you will get lag with a single turbo.
Go read a book or go to a garage and stop benchracing
>>15226629
yeah
the LS just isnt as great as everyone makes out
a stock 302 with a T5 weighs 70-ish lbs less than a LS1 with a T56 too
>>15226631
crate engines use gross horsepower tho, thats more like 400
agree with the Vortec tho
>>15226648
Do you know what a fucking twin-scroll is? Because it sounds like you don't and you're projecting the fact that you have no clue
>>15226494
goddamn that modular is literal xboxhueg...
so which LSx is best LS?
or all of them are the same because all of them are a good tuning base?
>>15226657
Do you know what compressor spin up lag is?
you can put a small turbine on a big compressor and still get alot of lag because it has to turn an xbox hueg compressor.
Laws of physics still exist and having a smaller turbine signature doesn't mean your huge compressor pushing 450CFM at island efficiency will move fast because your exhaust is pushing 87CFM.
Like I said, it's great for up to 400hp with a 4a-ge but trying to get more even with a twin scroll you're going to need something else to spool it up.
>>15226655
Aren't vortec blocks based on the LS series with an iron block?
>>15226663
Depends on what you want to do.
>>15226692
Twin charged 4A's are a thing mate, been done plenty of times and posted on Club4age forums, except there's no point in using a twin scroll in a twin charged setup
>>15226700
>Aren't vortec blocks based on the LS series with an iron block?
yes
and due to the iron block they are leagues stronger and love boost
>>15226702
>Twin charged 4A's are a thing mate
>implying I do not know this
>not getting the point that even with a twin scroll you'll get lag if you're aiming for anything over 400hp
>you're going to have to use something like a sequential setup to get instant response past that threshold because of how small the engine is and how little exhaust pressure it will be putting out
Twin charged is shit, you lose power turning the supercharger, just go sequential.
>>15226568
>I6 too long for current cars
>what is bmw
>>15226729
>BMW
>Not an exception to the rule
>somehow they're breadbox car makers now
I mean the 1 and 2 series are bread box, but still you get shorter hoods with a V6
>>15226657
>>15226702
You're a retard nobody cares about your 30 year old toyota tin-can engine.
He's also correct in stating that a sub-2 liter engine will have turbo lag no matter what if you make any considerable power.
And twin turbo'ing an engine with one exhaust manifold for the 4 exhaust ports will just add to the lag.
Even the Mine's R34 which is supposedly built for ultra-response, gets peak boost only from around 4k rpm, from a 2.6L, making just over 600hp.
>>15226757
Wasn't talking about twin turboing you mong, twin charging is having boost generated by a supercharger and turbo and what I mentioned earlier was twin scroll otherwise known as twin pulse like in the EVO IX, pay attention
>>15226773
I know what a twin scroll is retard, still good luck avoiding turbo lag on a tin-can prehistoric bottle-sized engine.
>>15226773
you seem to think twin scroll is some magic bullet.
it'll knock about 300rpm-800rpm off your spool up time which is fuck all on an engine spooling at 5.5k
>>15226783
>Turbo lag
The point of a twin-scroll is to eliminate BOOST THRESHOLD, because that's what you're referring to
>>15226773
and the EVO IX still had lag, which is why I'm saying what I'm saying.
Twin scroll does jack shit if the engine is too small to make the power you want.
KERS will be the only way to eliminate it but the setup would make it heavier than an LS engine.
>>15226783
>>15226797
>inb4 he says b-but muh daigumi
>inb4 he says samefagging
>>15226797
Well it's a good thing that 4A's rev quickly then, isn't it?
>>15226802
>meme words
turbo lag bro
>>15226810
Won't rev as quick when your rpms drop below boost :^)
>>15226757
>Doesn't understand the difference between turbo lag and boost threshold.
Boost threshold is the rpm at which the turbo makes full boost. Turbo lag is the delay with regards to changes in throttle provided you stay above the boost threshold.
>>15226822
>meme words
That's what turbo lag is
>won't rev as quick
[Citation Needed]
>>15226802
It does both.
>>15226825
Too bad you get shitty exhaust flow to take advantage of a 600hp twin scroll turbo.
You'll get turbo lag because you won't have sufficient exhaust flow to get instant throttle response.
>>15226418
I can buy plenty of cars for 3k with a 2jz in them. I don't think they're the 2jz that everyone wets their pants for but they can be built
>>15226825
Okay then if you want to move goalposts this much, I'll have some fun.
If you want to make LSx levels of power from a 4AGE:
>put huge turbo on
>boost threshold at 5k rpm to make 500hp because of low volume of exhaust gas from a shitty 1.whatever liter engine
>shift into next gear
>turbo lag of a second or so for the turbo to spool up fully because of low volume of exhaust gas from a shitty 1.whatever liter engine
are you happy my friend? :^)
>>15226852
No, because you're not accounting for the gearing of the transmission which will keep it in the threshold, especially the Silvertop/Blacktop transmissions
>>15226846
I'm not arguing about that. Any 600hp <2l engine is going to have a high boost threshold and turbo lag using current technology.
Problem with a 600hp LS engine is youll need to cam it significantly, wrecking your low rpm performance and if you want to do any sort of track duty with a LS you'll need a dry sump for sure cause shitty oiling (no priority mains).
>>15226863
Holy shit the goalposts are on another pitch this time.
I wonder how those different gearings magically shift a higher volume of air from the engine into the turbine wheel...
>>15226869
Well when they keep the rpms with the threshold it would be pushing out the volume of air required, it's not magic, it's science bitch
>>15226878
>it would be pushing out the volume of air required
A volume of air that is low enough to produce a significant amount of both boost threshold, and turbo lag.
What is your point? Or are you so angry that you forgot? :^)
![6-2l-ls3-engine-results[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0FcHsVj.jpg "6-2l-ls3-engine-results[1].jpg")
>>15226867
>Problem with a 600hp LS engine is youll need to cam it significantly
Not really, pic related is just from putting a top end kit on an LS3.
No stroking, just a cam, intake and head change.
Short-Block: Chevrolet Performance LS3 crate engine, flat-top pistons (no valve reliefs)
Heads: Trick Flow Specialties Gen X 255 LS3 with dual valvesprings (flow 380 cfm)
Cam: Stock BTR/Comp (0.624/0.590 lift, 232/248 duration, 114 LSA) and three-bolt gear
Rockers: Stock Offset LS3
Intake: Speedmaster LS3 Individual Runner
EFI Management: Holley HP
Exhaust: 1 7/8-inch Kooks headers
if they changed the arms it could rev up to 7500 and make even more power.
>>15226882
No, but apparently you forgot because of the gearing keeps the engine speed at the required rpms then it WOULD be pushing the required volume of air, are you dense?
>>15226900
You're ignoring the fact that what you stated as 'turbo lag', still exists, even if you're shifting more often and are generally higher up in the rpm band.
Boost threshold will still be high as fuck, but the effect of shorter gearing would be similar to speeding down-hill and therefore going up in the rpms quicker.
Like the anon earlier said, you won't have the response of an N/A engine from a turbo, especially not a 4AGE. Even if you go with a 5:1 gearing there will still be lag.
>>15226917
That would apply if you're using a huge single scroll, not on a good twin scroll
>>15226922
But you need a huge one to get to those power levels, do you not? :)
>>15226931
Not really, you do need a huge one if you go single scroll
reminder
>>15227633
>>15227639
are you going to ragequit just like you did on the boxer thread after being proved wrong?
>>15226958
You're dumb
I came here after a year hiatus from /o/ to shitpost about lolpushrods but alas, I find OP has a point here.
>>15227666
I like how you quit that one pick up truck thread after I called your stupid ass out that the 2004 nissan frontier only comes with vg v6's and not vq's. Fuck off retard.
>>15227679
Ur a faget
>>15227701
my bad i guess
d40s frontier were released in 2004 and they had a vq
>>15226381
>Pretty fucking easy to put together yourself and easy to wire
What isn't?
>>15227734
will do
>>15227690
pretty hard to bring up points like this when retards shitpost about lol pushrods can't rev or muh DOHC better at everything
>>15227958
Except DOHC is better than lolpushrods
>>15227969
They have advantages in certain areas.
DOHC, SOHC and OHV have different advantages for different things.
>>15227978
Yep, they destroy them both for top end power
>>15227991
Top end yes, Bottom end depends on the tune.
>>15228017
That and what tech is used in the head
>600hp
LS1 owner here
>heads/cam/exhaust/nitrous
a lot less than $10k for 600 hp. N/A
>>15228022
and cam.
Also the main reason DOHC will have better top end advantage is because it has the potential to rev to the moon and back (with the right materials and a really short stroke)
>>15227991
>top end power
OHV is KING of big power
>>15228035
>short stroke
this has nothing to do with the head design you faggot.
OHV can rev too. 6.0l LQ4 with a 4.8l crank making it 334 cubic inch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52pNnE_jN3U
>>15228040
OHV is king of low end torque, top end power, and packaging.
DOHCfags need not apply.
>>15228046
>this has nothing to do with the head design
Which is why I included with a short stroke.
I also know about the destroked LS and Vortec engines.
I'm saying to rev to the moon and back you need a short stroke anyway.
>>15228053
>chokes at higher rpm
>king of top end power and packaging
>>15228064
Just add an improved valvetrain and a shorter stroke. Take the ford 302 and 289 for example.
>>15228056
>DOHC will have better top end advantage is because it has the potential to rev to the moon and back
yeah and OHV " (with the right materials and a really short stroke)" also "has the potential to rev to the moon and back"
b-but pushrods
>>15228382
>b-but bent pushrods
Ftfy
>>15228382
It won't rev past 15,000 (I've tested this shit in sims)
You can get 10,000 rpm reliably with pushrods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtpzA0hd8Kg
You'll need a huge cam core, short rods made out of titanium or a very light stainless steel (aluminum won't cut it) as well as light rockers.
Sometimes I don't get you /o/, I'm not exactly disagreeing with anyone yet everyone has to act agro as fuck.
>>15228601
15k or even 10k is plenty for most people.
>>15228710
I'm well aware, but leave it to someone who will point out DOHC will rev 5k more and they'll take it and run with it
>>15228601
You're right but that's in an all-out racing application like pro-stock. Running 10,000 rpm with a OHV set up requires changing out springs every few passes and using a custom block with a super short deck height (e.g DRCE 2-3).
>>15226848
they're not 2jz-gte's so they will shit themselves going to 600hp
the good one is the 2jz-gte which came on the turbo supra, aka super fucking rare
>>15226453
the junkyard 5.3 you're referring to is iron, they handle stupid amounts of boost BECAUSE they're iron, still very light compared to the 2J though
>>15230331
thats why they had to ban OHC for being better right?
also, BBC a shitty shit
>>15230349
meant to quote
>>15228040
>mfw im retarded
Fuck a junkyard 4.8 with rings and bearings can handle well over 800 crank. Personally, my yard sells all motors for 200$. Aluminum 5.3's rebuilt for 500$ overall is a hell of a fucking deal. Put a fucklarge holset diesel turbo on it, no more than 2k for the whole kit pieced together will make a good 700hp while staying under 3k. The stock internals are fucking solid for 800-900 with meth/water and good fuel.
700-900ho for under 4k sounds like a hell of a fuckin deal to me. Not to forget parts are a dine a dozen and rebuilds are simple as all fuck with a pushrod motor.
>>15230300
and toyota aristo's which are not rare.
>>15226381
>LS
>best budget build
Nah, if gas mileage isn't a concern, you can easily make 450HP out of a ford 460 or chebby big block for $3,000. Or even lower if you really are a true jew.
>>15230320
No, they handle stupid amounts of boost because of their internal design, not their block design. It's 4.8 and 5.3 that can ludicrous amounts of boost, and because those are generally iron block, people think that iron block = good for boost and aluminium block = bad for boost. However, it's just the different internals of the 4.8 and 5.3 that'll take a massive beating (once you open up the rings gaps), regardless of block material. There are some aluminium 5.3 blocks, and they can take boost just fine, since they've got the right internals. It's the top end that needs replacing usually, some good heads, a cam, a valvesprings that don't fail when you screw 25+ PSI of air and high octane fuel into them.
>>15230383
Most of the times you don't even need bearings and studs, although you're running a risk without them. Good gaskets and opening up ring gap on them is must though. The aluminium 5.3's are a steal nowadays.
>900hp
That's nice...for when you detune it. You can make 1200+hp on 4.8 and 5.3 bottom ends once you open up the rings.
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/1213tr-vortec-5-3l-big-bang/
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1109-stock-gm-ls-engine-big-bang-theory/
>>15230740
True, but sometimes gas mileage is a concern - and the LS exceeds at it. 700hp LS motors sometimes get 25MPG highway, which is amazing.
Big blocks are only going to get rarer, carbs will get more expensive, whereas LS motors and their EFI will get cheaper and cheaper, untill they're overtaking by their direct injection cousins.
pic related any american engine
>>15231629
You mean 2JZ, right?
>>15230383
Why the bearings?
>>15231622
>blew up after some pulls
why is this retarded article even used as an argument?
>>15226381
10k can get you 600hp with basically any engine over 2 liters.
>>15230097
"No"
>>15231614
mmmm nope
all things equal aluminum 5.3 will take less boost than the iron 5.3
>>15226573
silvertops have conrods weaker than a twig what are you smoking dude. Also that particular 4age also has wayyyyy too high of a compression ratio for turbo setup. Have you ever tried tuning itb turbos? You never can get a good tune unless you fork out $600 and go to blacktrax or real st.
Go back to watching initial d, kid.
The best budget engine in my mind is hands down an rb20. It revs to the fucking moon. It doesn't blow up when you hold it on the limiter drifting. All you need is a bigger turbo and it can handle 400whp no problem when swapped into a 240. I have a KA-T pushing 400whp aswell but it chews through trans every other track day. You can also get an sr20 up there for cheap too. Thus why I say rb20. You can put a 25 trans on it. You can build it on the cheap using 25/26 crank and conrods then pistons out of a 4agZe. bam. theres your 600whp with a good tune. If you want boost on a 4a get a damn GZE engine kys fgt
>>15233211
Most of that price is for the swap into a non-ls car I'm guessing.
>>15234008
>Silvertop has weak conrods
Confirmed for Bogan who doesn't know shit, Blacktops have the skinnier conrods you fuckwit
No shit the pistons are higher comp, ever thought that it might be possible to swap them out with 9.5:1 comp pistons? No? That's because you're too busy sniffing what you had for dinner last night
>RB20
Good job picking the weakest fucking boat anchor you could, if you wanna talk RBs mate, you could have at least mentioned the RB30 which strokes out to 3.7 and fucking destroys everything but nah, you're a shitcunt that talks before thinking
>ITBs
And? Any aftermarket ECU like AEMs unit can tune them, that's a fucking piss poor excuse, and the plenum will be able to.direct the air into the fucking things or were you just too fucking stupid to remember that?
