>2016
>Cars that still use timing belts
Seriously what the fuck? Why hasn't this shit gone the way of the dodo, how badly do you have to cheap out that you don't have chain for fucks sake.
Welcome to America.
Chains are heavy so they affect performance
This is a good read
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car-maintenance/car-maintenance-archive/car-tuning-belt-drive-versus-timing-chain
>>15017967
I'm willing to bet it affects performance as much as 0.3%
>>15017949
Nothing wrong with a timing belt. They're a lot easier to change than a timing chain and they're out in the open where they can be inspected regularly. I've never looked at the timing chain on my 216k mile Toyota because it's a pita, but I probably should before I eat a chain tensioner or some shit.
>>15017998
The only thing you need to make sure is timing guides are good so it doesn't chew up the chain and that's like 150k miles when you should look. Timing chains are better in every single way.
>>15018003
truthfully, frankly, gear driven single cam pushrod engines are superior.
>>15018009
Disgusting
>>15017968
It's a good read, but doesn't account for any of the drawbacks of a belt like the wearing of plastic guides, belt stretch (which affects chains too but not as severely ir quickly I most cases), dry rot/cracking, etc. These problems are usually not seen with a chain driven cam or gear drive for that matter. That isn't to say that a chain is the holy grail, they can be noisier than a belt, are more prone to shear off cam gear teeth (on cheapo aftermarket gears), and can be harder to time correctly. I still prefer a chain for that little extra strength over the rubber/nylon belt.
>>15017969
probably a little more than that, but I doubt more than 1%. A timing belt will also be more precise, and responsive. I doubt you would feel either, but in a race might mean victory.
>>15018032
I agree completely, was just answering OP's question.
>tfw FA5 timing chain masterrace
Ugh I'mgonna have to change my timing belt in my dream cruiser soon. I don't know how to do it myself so there goes at least 600$.
>>15018321
I'm so glad /o/ is such a car enthusiast board.
>>15018321
gear driven OHC masterrace
There is nothing wrong with belts
fuck off
>>15017949
hey dont knock the timing belt. it's a good design. forces people to do work on their engines every 100000km or so anyway.
also, diesels have a timing belt driven fuel pump that only lasts about 100 000km, the same age as the timing belt usually that needs maintenance. so from that perspective a chain is a waste.
>>15018321
it's going to be a bit more than that.
it's going to need an engine drop to get at that engine bay.
We use FAE forestry heads at work. They spin a half ton metal drum with hammers welded all over it at several thousand rpm and it's entire purpose is to fuck up trees quickly. The transmission from motor to drum is 5 serpentine belts next to each other, and they never break.
The point is just change the fuckers as routine maintenance like you would anything else, it's simpler than a chain system with it's need for more lubrication and more complicated guides.
>>15018417
chains are better though from the perspective of buying a new car. they'll last the life of the car. 400 000km+
>>15018009
>this delusional
lel
>>15018363
>gear driven dohc
Fuck ur shit
>>15018363
What engine is that to the right?
>>15017949
>what is noise, vibration, and harshness
easy to tighten up, easy to tell how when you have to replace it, easy to replace, cheap. god bless the timing belt (and pushrods).
>>15017949
A belt needs no lubrication, and instead of rubbing on guides it can be pressed in with a tensioner, which will keep the correct pressure on. Chain rubs on and wears the guides, while belts don't rub on things. Belts are quieter, chains generally last longer. Belts have less stretch than chains and stay more consistent through their life. On the other hand, if you don't change either when they should be changed, you can see chain progress as it stretches more and more, while the belt will stay the same until the teeth get ripped off.
From the user perspective, there isn't a hell of a lot of difference. Chains may be slightly noisier, but sound deadening and other tricks cut out the noise. Either way, the average person takes their car into the shop to have it done well past the time it should be done, regardless of which they have; assuming it hasn't snapped and the pistons and valves joined in holy matrimony.
i liek timing belts
>>15018647
Christ alive, what is that thing?
>>15017949
>Not using gears
>>15018673
pretty run of the mill Volvo redblock, this one is an LH 2.2 in an 86 245.
kinda dirty in there, huh
>>15018712
It is a stranger set-up than I have usually seen, I must say.
>>15018647
V-belts errywhere
![800px-Replacing_a_timing_belt[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XhSLlw5.jpg "800px-Replacing_a_timing_belt[1].jpg")
>>15018750
>It is a stranger set-up than I have usually seen, I must say.
the fuck are you talking about? it is literally an identical setup to the fucking example picture on the wikipedia "timing belt" entry you fucking walnut.
>>15018811
errywhere
and they're not described in any service manual because they changed accessory layouts a couple times a year. lose any and finding the right size is just guessing
>>15018463
>valve driven engine
Fuck that
it's simple.
Belts for non-interference engines.
Chains for interference engines.
If you design an interference engine and put a belt on it, you should die.
>>15018538
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/02/engine-porn-os-giken-tc24-b1z/
a custom built gear driven cam nissan L28 stroked to 3.2. obscenely expensive compared to the engine its sat next to in that picture
>>15018349
>>15018352
Don't hate. The pt cruiser turbo is a sleeper.
>>15018416
We won't need to drop the engine. It can be done around that price range too.
>>15018699
>all those cogs
Hnng
>>15018538
L series nissan
>>15018952
>If you design an interference engine and put a belt on it, you should die.
subaru engines do this... alot
Volvo master race here... Tool me 2 hrs to replace timing belt, water pump, and all tensioners and pulleys in between on my volvo 850. I only have to do this every 70,000 miles so it's not bad at all
>>15018952
chain non-interference here
where is your god
>>15018952
you do realize that non-interference engines are only feasible for forced induction? that's the difference. high compression ratio:interference.
>>15019329
huh, apparently is possible. I still hate your engine bay.
>>15018712
That is a Volvo engine? It looks exactly the same as old Audi and VW four and five cylinder engines like the NF or NG. Did they cooperate?
>>15018699
I came so fukkin HARD to this.
Hunng
>>15018321
>that angle
Muh dick
>>15017949
Can someone tell me what is in between the timing gears and what exactly it does
>>15019731
Locks them together so it doesn't lose time when you do a belt job, or so you can take the pulleys off without the cams spinning
>>15019763
Kinda what I figured, is there a specific name for one of these? I need one for taking apart my 5MGE
>>15019554
Wut. A race Hemi is a non-interference engine and had 12.5:1 In 1964. What's high comp to you friend?
>>15018647
are you me
>>15018009
>tfw I drive a 2.5 TDS Frontera
Feels good, mang. All gears. 20 years and nothing but oil changes.
>>15019573
Having done them before, its about the same as a Neon or doing a timing set on a Cavalier, Escort, Civic, etc. Usually we just pull the engine as its wayyyy easier in the long run to pull the engine and trans. On a Cruiser, id go ahead and replace the radiator while its taken apart as it will be going sooner rather than later if you are due for a timing belt.
>>15018952
mechanic here. You're retarded.
90% of all belt engines are interference.
>>15019499
Fun Fact: The GT86 is the only new Toyota that runs a timing belt. Because Subaru.
>>15019524
Good + Good = great. Enjoy your motor!
>>15019554
You're stupid.
>>15019838
Just because it's the way it's done doesn't mean that it's the correct way to do it, Cletus.
Also you're not a mechanic if you just fix your own shit in the yard next to your trailer.
>>15019779
You can just use vice grips, no reason to buy a special tool
>>15019867
>hurr non-interference engines are the best way of raising compression in order to facilitate higher combustion temps, more complete burning, more power and more efficiency.
Please, anon. Just stop now before I fucking humiliate you.
>>15019605
I thought exactly the same. Looks very similar to my ABY.
>>15019935
I never said any of that.
I only said interference fit engines should have a chain instead of a belt.
>>15017949
Uhhh because the b6 audi s4 and rs4 scared them away.
>>15020026
This.
>>15019807
lol your cylinder head may be in my dining room
I've actually seen timing belt tensioners fail, these things are like those gas struts that lose strength over time. Never, ever get lazy and not replace these when changing the timing belt!
>>15019935
nobody said non-interference increases compression you mongoloid.
>>15017967
Sorry, try again. Motorcyclist here and we -know- belt drive is heavier for a given gear ratio than chain.
Regarding OP's question, it's simple. It's a difficult point of maintenance and adds planned obsolescence to a car. That way the manufacturer can either get a huge payday when it comes in for a belt change or get a huge payday when the owner buys a new car after they snap it.
Chains look pretty cool tho
>>15021394
Motorcycle=\= car
On snowmobiles, belt drives are usually lighter, and if day they're closer to the application inside a car engine.
>>15021479
> if day
I meant I'd say
>>15017966
lol
>Having valves at all
>>15018699
Why is there a ring clamp around the oil filter?
>>15021539
For easier removal maybe?
>>15018699
>buy a car with a 350 sbc
>previous owner installed a gear drive
>everywhere I go, ill I hear is REEEEEEEEEEE
at least it was a good excuse to upgrade the exhaust
>>15018595
Problems from the last century?
>>15018699
>Run with open headers
>still cant hear the engine over the whine
>People hear what they think is a party whistle from half a mile away
>>15018853
what is this engine its fuckin adorable
>>15021518
>he says this while posting a picture of an engine that's been out of production for over a decade.
>>15018699
If the camshaft gear gets worn out, does that mean you have to replace the whole camshaft?
>using engines when you could use the force
fucking plebians
>>15018596
>easy to replace
Do you even know what a timing belt is?
>>15018321
>Worlds first flattering photo of a PT Cruiser
Now to find a good one of a HHR
>>15018416
God awful. Even the engine bay cries of classless design philosophy.
>>15018463
>Blood-red
>For the Devil's chariot
>>15018699
Holy fuck what idiot made that. Would the top right cog clash the counterclockwise gear ?
>>15020041
>H.R. Geiger design
>Scary af
>>15022705
>>15022705
>>15020041
Y so many chains
>>15022476
>thinks timing belts aren't easy to replace
honda D series here. it could not be easier
>>15019554
>you do realize that non-interference engines are only feasible for forced induction?
300+ hp N/A non-interference engines are literally everywhere.
>select all images with Pickup trucks
>>15022489
To stay on topic. What else besides water pump, tensioner and timing belt should be changed? Cam seals? Is that an important thing to check while in there?
>>15023077
If they are leaking change them, if not leave them be.
>>15023077
>What else besides water pump, tensioner and timing belt should be changed?
in a chrysler ... the brand.
>>15018699
>Just fuck my shit up!
>>15023759
senpai gears will never go wrong
literally will run like clockwork
>>15020041
>chains gliding across plastic on a $60k car
>>15017949
belts are cheaper to make, and easier to replace for your techs.
also they want it to break so they get money from the dealership.
>>15022067
Duno try searching for two-stroke tripple powered cars maybe?
Timing chains only matter for interference engines, this is why all the e30's are gone when you could buy them all day for $600 ten years ago.
Can you do this with a timing chain? No, you cannot.
>#rekt
>>15017966
plz
>>15021394
fuck off to your containment thread
>>15022705
>>15022726
How dumb are you? Obviously not since the top gears are DRIVEN by the lower one.
>>15022476
they are. one of the few parts I don't worry about at all.
>>15017949
Why hasn't the cam disapeared all together.
Rotary valves, air op valves are a two ideas
>>15024176
Poor little doggo :'(
>>15024349
Koenigsegg has a prototype Saab with a free valve engine, but everyone's too busy with hybrid shit
What could go wrong?
LS block superiority
LS6 in my C5Z
>>15024496
That shit is so cool.
>>15018463
>ISX
>ever
probably one of the worst commercial engines i've ever dealt with
>>15022726
Nice, calling the engineers idiots and cant even understand basics of physics.
>>15018699
>not using helical gears
The noise must be like a thousand SJWs whining on tumblr.
Motorcycles had this shit 35 years ago.
Get. On. My. Level.
>>15019779
Just be careful and don't move your cams. Its not necessary. If you want to be safe go ahead and spend the $20 or whatever for a cam lock.
because if you're not challenged it takes like an hour or two to replace every 100k-150k miles and it doesnt matter in any way.
>>15024213
>>15024716
> Fell for the bait
>>15023266
Jelly
>>15025765
>2016
>still using the "I WAS JUST PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED" excuse
It would have been bait if it had made me do anything but think "Man that guy is stupid"
>>15024961
More like over 90 years ago, the indian scout 101 had gears as a primary
>>15025777
Still falling for the bait xDDD
>>15018842
Is it bad that I've never worn gloves when working on my cars?
>2016
>still actuates his valvetrain mechanically insted of pneumatically
>>15026247
>buying new cars
>being cucked this hard
>>15026247
>he fell for the vaorvalve meme
>>15024680
Really? I love the isx. I won't claim it's the most reliable, but it is by far the easiest modern HD engine to service. It's literally the last engine to have the accessories mounted on the front of the engine. Removing the cab of a truck to change the fuel pump or air compressor just seems a little unreasonable to me.
Not only is the engine just better designed, but cummins diagnostic software and support is second to none. Using Insite and EDS a fucking middle schooler could effectively diagnose and repair a modern cummins engine.
>>15025768
Meant for
>>15023734
>>15018321
Well, think about it this way. That's like a weekend or two of overtime money. Would you rather spend those two weekends at your job or under a PT Cruiser? I know I'd be tempted to just kick the jackstand out while I'm under there to end my suffering.
>>15018647
Why are there FOUR fucking V belts? Hell, for two on the alternator, it looks like they're just driving the three same pulleys. What am I missing?
>>15026890
He's missing his AC compressor. If he had one, one of the alt to crank belts would also go to the AC compressor.
>>15026944
The AC compressor is there, lower right accessory.
>>15027435
You are right. Dont know then unless they just really wanted to reduce belt slip to the alternator.
>>15017949
I have both :^)
>>15017967
Yeah that's why Pagani uses timing belts right?
>>15027679
I would sell that car immediately before it becomes a paper weight
>>15027729
the huayra uses a chain.
Unless you mean the belt buckles holding the hood down
>>15027735
>poorfag who hasn't owned an Audi newer than 2005
