Why is America so uncompetitive in the highly valued shitbox segment?
Aside from the Focus and Fiesta, it seems like the only other time they even came close to competitive was the Saturn S series.
>>15013708
Because shitboxes are mainly for Europoors who aren't legally allowed to drive engines over a certain size for 30 years of their life . And Japanese who have a "gentlemens" agreement on hp output.
GM's Quad 4's
Chrylser K turbo's
Ford was a bit behind with the Lima turbo, and it wasn't really in shitboxes, and dropped pretty quickly.
>Focus, Fiesta 'American'
Not really
>>15013747
>Europoors who aren't legally allowed to drive engines over a certain size for 30 years of their life .
Is this true?
>>15013747
>And Japanese who have a "gentlemens" agreement on hp output.
>>15013795
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/japan-dumps-276-hp-pact-car-news
That's why most engines were so damn small and stuck with I4, I6, and V6.
Chevy sonic and spark, Doge dart, Ford Fiesta and focus are the ones I can think of that are still being made currently
>>15013804
Wow, interesting.
>in a country where the maximum speed limit is 62 mph
Wow.
>>15013821
>Chevy sonic and spark, Doge dart
>competitive with jap, yuro and korean shitboxes
>>15013821
>Chevy sonic
Daewoo/Opel, Korean/German
>Spark
Daewoo Matiz, Korean
>Doge dart
Fiat Giuletta, Italian
>Ford Fiesta and focus
UK/German
Those are all world cars, not US domestics
>>15013827
Then there was the even more amusing is the legend about the Japanese government sending a letter to all the motorbike companies around the time the Hayabusa came out, politely telling them to stop making retardedly fast bikes because everybody is going to kill themselves riding them.
>>15013832
but the sonic and spark are korean
>>15013832
The Sonic and Fiesta are THE best in their class. They're the best handling, fastest, and most fun to drive cars in their class. They're well built and reliable.
The only European subcompact sold in America is the Mini, which is actually a size class below the Sonic and Fiesta, so is not a direct competitor. Even if it was, it has ALWAYS been the least reliable in its class in America.
America doesn't get any of the French fuckers from Citroen, Peugeot, or Renault. The smallest VW sold here is the Golf, and the A3 competes in a size class above the Sonic/Fiesta.
The only foreign subcompact that cmpeted with them that was in the same league as them was the Mazda 2, which is no longer sold in America unless you want to buy it as a Scion sedan.
>>15013852
Sonic is built in America.
>>15013875
>Sonic is built in America
And all over the world, and designed in Korea with the help of Opel.
It's not an American car. Sold here yes, but not american like OP implied.
At this point I don't really think the US has a shitbox that is homegrown and sold elsewhere that is comparable to foreign shitboxes.
>>15013773
Dodge Neons, non K turbo were pretty good.
>>15013708
They also had the Cavaliers, Sunfires, Neons.
>>15013905
But the thing is we're never going to see American born and raised subcompacts and compacts again. The last of those were the Neon, Cobalt, Ion, Fiero, K-cars. and the Chevette. In this day and age, in order to survive, products need to be global. Designed around the world to meet a variety of regulations and requirements.
And the new Chevy Spark isn't a Daewoo Matiz anymore. That platform is kill. The new Spark is a new Opel Karl/Vauxhall Viva with a different front end. Literally.
>>15014064
Not really trying to start shit/flame but...
>Ion/Cobalt/G5
Eh, the Delta started off as US, but then went world car.
>Chevette
Actually a world car, T platform, Isuzu and Opel.
>But the thing is we're never going to see American born and raised subcompacts and compacts again
It's all world cars from here on out, the last American domestic shitboxes that were competitive were late 80's to mid 90's and have been mentioned ITT already, Chrysler K Turbos/Neons, GM Quad 4, and the SL/SC2 LL0, and eventually the LSJ.
And mentioned already were the displacement taxes which explains why these engines weren't really prominent outside NA, the Quad 4 was 2.4l, the K turbo's were 2.2/2.5l competing against cars that were generally limited to sub 2.0l for tax reasons.
>DSM get's an honorable mention.
In all, I'm not considering world cars for what OP said, just cars designed and built in America that competed in the shitbox segment.
had a Neon, it was a good cheap and reliable shitbox
I was told Neon's kicked ass for a year or two in the SCCA too
>>15013780
Not quite, although insurance costs make driving powerful cars prohibitively expensive under the age of 25
bump with glorious Americana
>>15014536
>I have to work two months out of the year to pay for insurance
>I drive an SUV
How is this any different than 'murica?
>>15014663
We also have road tax and mandatory inspections, not to mention fuel that is 2-3x the cost
Unless you're making great money, it's quite hard to actually fuel something like a 350 cu in ve ate
Suzuki made some good value shitboxes that you can still find for dirt cheap. Just as reliable as the "good" Japanese manufactures without the rice tax and most of the time faster too. Parts are still really cheap considering Suzuki hasn't been in NA for a while now.
Some of their shitboxes used the same engine as the Miata and weighed less. If you can get past the FWD aspect it makes them pretty good value for the money.
>>15014687
So do 'Muricans.
>~2000/year mandatory insurance
>tax and title fees of approx $100/year
>most states have emissions inspections, so mandatory repairs of at least $300 a year, some states won't pass older vehicles so you have to either walk or buy a new one
>totally not corporate shill circlejerking it's bout the environment, so we have to dump your old toxic shitheap in a pile of shitheap next to the water supply
>$2500 doesn't sound like that much but when you're making $20k a year and $3k of that goes away to feed the muhreens it gets a bit ridiculous
>>15014727
>be me
>buy Honda Civic for 500 bucks last friday
>it's going to be about 100-150 bucks to register
>200-300 bucks a month to insure
>no inspections where i live
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>>15014763
>300/month to insure
And that sounds like a good deal to you?
>>15014776
I meant every six months. Oops.
It's really not bad is my point.
Neons were awesome
and thats the only decent one
>>15014822
Mine is pretty bad. I can't afford to do anything, go to school, buy a new car or even rent an apartment because of how ridiculous insurance costs and taxes are.
>mandatory to give 1/4th of my check to some dude
>free world
I know everyone told me when I was younger I would get over it, but so far I haven't.
I've been driving for almost 10 years and never had a wreck. yet insurance is cripplingly expensive.
>>15014543
>CF sticker on gas tank lid
Stage 4 weight reduction, sick brah
American here. Most of our roads are quite flat and straight. Most buyers (as in, NOT teenagers watching Japanese cartoons in their parents' basement) grew up conditioned on these roads. We have no need for double-wishbone suspensions. We have no desire to clip apexes on hairpin turns. An automatic Chevy Cavalier with a 2.4-liter engine making 150 lazy horsepower and 155 lb-ft of torque for highway driving is just fine for us.
>>15015046
>not all of us are flyoverfags
>>15013708
There are a bunch of shitboxes in the segment, but it is dominated by Toyota and Honda because they have a reputation of being reliable, efficient, and cheap, while their American counterparts were...terrible. For a long time. So much so that even when a good car (Fiesta) goes against a meh car (Yaris) we all know who wins. The last two generations of the Civic were shit, but the sold pretty well regardless. Thankfully they made the Civic worth owning again, but it's still going to get killed by the CR-V.
Combine this with the fact that Americans are buying fewer cars in general, with subcompacts being the least popular/profitable segment, they can't be bothered to engineer a competent shitbox. (Notice that even Toyota isn't bothering with a subcompact anymore, outsourcing directly to Mazda)
If American car culture changes to value cheaper, smaller, more efficient cars, they will make better sub/compacts. Until then, don't hold your breath.
>>15014975
I pay 123 dollars a month for 2 cars, one full coverage one just liability, I'm 25 and had a DUI at 21. Never had any speeding tickets. Had a million seat belt tickets, not sure if that affects anything other than they think I'm a hazard to myself not others. Switch to fucking progressive.
>>15015374
Americans bought more cars last year than we had in any year since before the recession. I think we broke records going back to 2005 or 2006.
>>15013827
And you can only do that on toll expressways. Normal major highways top out at 80 km/h (50 burgers per hour). In towns it's 30-50 km/h.
>>15015374
>The last two generations of the Civic were shit
>8th gen
>shit
>>15014280
The acr Neon kicked ass the rest of the shit didn't.
>>15017299
Forgive me, I meant to say that Americans are buying less cars as a percentage of overall vehicle sales. Last year was great for the automotive industry in the US, but it was dominated by trucks/SUV's/CUV's.
