http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-ev-oil-crisis/
Bloomberg seems to think that between Tesla, Ford and Chevrolet bringing out all these new, cheap electric cars, and projections for cheaper batteries and wider adoption of "clean" power in the grid to feed the increased demand, oil prices will crash in 2028.
That seem at all right to you guys? Or are OPEC right in thinking that people won't shift to EVs en-masse, and yhat they'll always be a niche item in the auto market?
Pic unrelated.
I don't think they'll go beyond being 2nd cars for anyone other early adopters, at least in the immediate future.
>bloomberg
>have to wait 30 minutes to an hour before car is charged to use it
>car is worthless if there is no power
It will never get bigger.
>>14952112
>Or are OPEC right in thinking that people won't shift to EVs en-masse, and yhat they'll always be a niche item in the auto market?
Do you think OPEC would ever admit that the source of all of their riches would ever disappear?
>>14952341
>using car for daily commute or errands
>car is plugged into house
>leave car with full "tank"
>difficult to burn through 200+ miles of range on minor shit like that
>especially when the motor "idles" at 0 RPM
>get home
>put car on charge again
>ready to go next morning
Or:
>going on roadtrip
>travel about 150 miles
>Battery's looking s little low
>Pull into the charge station
>Plug car in
>Go get a coffee or light meal
>take a dump
>get back to car
>It's now 80% charged or so
Not seeing an issue here.
>>14952420
>have to stop every 100 miles for 15-30 minutes
Sure is efficient
>>14952448
>having to spend 50 dollars every stop to fill up
>having to do oil changes
>having to go to a mechanic to replace part #30924839052360928
sure is efficient
>>14952460
>He thinks he won't have to get his gearing serviced
>50 dollars
paying more than 15 dollars to fill up kek
>replacepart
Enjoy paying 45,000 USD for your battery replacement at 30,000 miles.
>>14952460
>going to a mechanic
Found the cuck
>>14952465
>45000k for battery replacement
Top top kek, m8.
The entire Tesla 3 costs 35k before subsidies, and the batteries are one-third of that. But batteries are becoming cheaper and more reliable by the day. By the time the Tesla 3 hits the market, the batteries will be doing way longer distances before dying, and be way cheaper to replace if they do.
I think Elon said a little while back that they plan on delivering cars with million mile service lives before too long.
>>14952507
>he thinks it will be cheap and easy
>entire interior has to be pulled out
>welding removed
>battery packs have to be unseated safely
>require B pillar to be removed
>takes 3 people + lift to remove battery
It's not like replacing the AAs in your remote.
>>14952508
yes because you have to be able to take it out quickly since it dies in a day right?
>>14952460
>thinks charge ups will be free
>thinks evs are service free
>>14952512
>30k mile life
half the cars weight and it lasts less than a timing belt.
>>14952528
Well, Tesla's supercharger network is free, and Tesla's boss has said it'll remain free for the Model 3.
>>14952512
Do you know what labor costs?
I have no idea if thats necessary to charge battery but that amount work, is an ENTIRE fucking total. a new bumper for a 2016 truck costs about 1 grand. that is with/o labor do you have any conceptual idea of the amount of hours of work that goes into things. buying a battery at a 1/3 of the price of car starting and 8k of labor at least +/- skilled labor and whether or not the mechanic could work on that car so 40 dollars an hour at best labor wise since how many shops will have credited people to work on a tesla.
also implying I couldn't make a semi race engine ground up for 8 grand, that will last forever from rebuilds that cost little to nothing.
Also enjoy record high prices of lithium, you think batteries will be cheaper, yeah okay pal.
lithium is double the price it was start of 2015 now.
>>14952571
Sure it will, sure it will.
>natural gas
>ethanol
I don't know why you all hate EVs so much. As an enthusiast, I don't think I would ever enjoy driving one but if normies all adopt them we can continue to drive our shitboxes indefinitely.
Opec shits there pants about this on a daily basis. The only thing that will put off adoption by a couple years will be the technological advances in fracking that will allow for a good decade of cheap plentiful oil before cheap EV wipes it out.
Do you guys really think Rockefeller et al divested themselves of their petro assets for any other reason?
>>14952683
>implying
Gasoline and hybrids are still the future for performance vehicles.
batteries will eventually get good enough that range will be comparable to a gas car (300 miles)
electric charging stations will eventually become as ubiquitous as gas stations
opec are idiots, EVs are the ultimate normie cars
>can't kill them
>dirt cheap to run
>quiet
>nothing to maintain
>dead simple to use
>>14952592
>don't know why you all hate EVs so much.
As with any car it isn't the car, it's the annoying as fuck fan base.
>>14952710
>full tank of gas on average car (14 gal)
>116 lbs
>Tesla Model S Battery pack
>1200 lbs
Yea no, It'll be another 100 years before it's on par.
>>14952705
No argument here, big trucks too and heavy equipment. But the passenger vehicle will go electric and oil be like coal, slowly shunted off to the side until it only serves as a segment of the industrial economy, not the main fuel source. And that is huge from an investment standpoint. Oil = sunset industry.
>>14952725
Stop being a twat.
Compare the weight of the entire drivetrain
>>14952734
Add another 600lbs at most
>>14952725
>not realizing gas tank + engine + exhaust system + fuel system + air system is a lotta weight
the difference is something around 500lbs at the moment for gas vs electric but that's currently dropping
this is also assuming something doesn't come along to replace lipo entirely, which will probably happen
>>14952730
You think we only drill to produce gasoline?
>>14952734
How about we go with car
>Model S
>4,608 to 4,936 lbs
>Focus RS
>3365 lbs
>>14952744
You do know that all the Teslas are nearly 1200lbs heavier than any the cars they compete with.
>458
>3,450 lbs
>>14952744
>500 lb difference
No, the Tesla cars are litteraly 1500+ lbs heavier than the cars they combustion cars they compete against.
>>14952592
>2075
>Demand for gas drops off for consumers
>"finally, cheap gas!" - gearhead
>Oil companies see that the only individuals who still want it are "enthusiasts"
>high octane only, no fuel stations
>you buy it by the tank
>its insanely expensive
>government also taxes the fuck out of it to try and kill gas because "muh carbon dioxide", uses tax money to fund welfare instead of carbon capture and processing
>>14952112
No oil? What's going to power the electric cars? Algae? Wind?
Laugh my ass off.
Nah, nigga, we're going back to bicycles if oil crisis is within next decade.
>>14952757
>>14952752
>model s curb weight; 4600 to 4900 lbs
>bmw 5 series weight 3800 to 5000lbs
so, 800lb difference on the low end, but 100lbs lighter on the high end
>>14952112
anything a finacial magazine publishes is to either try to surge incvesting to make money or tank prices to make money its all about somoones money
>>14952769
Whoops, didn't read OP properly. Anyways, now you know what I think about electric "green energy" cars and the shills that are saying electric cars will save humanity.
>>14952773
>look mom I googled numbers that are wrong.
The heaviest 5 series is 3,714 lb.
>>14952773
>bmw
>>14952112
>>14952769
>>14952779
Oil will generate electricity needed to fuel the electric cars; oil prices remain stable.
>>14952773
7 Series weighs in at 4600
>>14952769
Naw, we're just going to level a few forests and grow oil-rich crops for biodiesel to blend with restaurant recycle and compensate for the smaller supply with higher efficiency vehicles. Meanwhile, nuclear and hydro will fulfill our electric needs. Fuck fish. 'Murica.
People without a demonstrable mass transport need will be limited to cycles, scooters, and very small cars on public roads. RIP, pigfat SUVs.
Most large cities have power distribution issues as it is. I don't see how their going to deal with the additional loads from all the "supercharger" stations. It's going to take a lot of upgrades to the power grids.
It's not as easy as "just killing the ICE"
>>14952791
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan/2013/showroom/technical_data/
I do like how you think "max capacity" is the cars weight.
>>14952790
the f10 m5 is around 4200, the 550i is 4300.
so, between 300 and 600 lbs heavier than the heaviest 5 series
which is a shame because bmw is making fucking boats right now
>>14952812
Model S weighs the same as an X5.
>>14952803
Even if we grew oil crops on a plot larger than the Great Plains, it can't replace even half of the world's oil demand.
I agree; we should cut on needless oil consumption first, then try to see what we can do.
>>14952812
>F10 m5
>575 hp
>502 mile range
>Tesla model S
>259 hp
>294 mile range
>>14952112
I think ev will stall when rare earth metals become contended
either that or not enough power plant will built in time
>>14952448
at least you can take a nap while the self driving car pulls in to charge
>sort of like a roomba
>>14952872
>needs a nap every 40 minutes
Are you an infant?
>>14952881
>free trial
Wait, you don't actually have to pay for it, do you?
>>14952112
I don't think so.
We still have 3 more billion people to come to this world by 2050
All these 3rd world countries are developing fast they keep buying new cars. While yes combustion engine cars will lose a lot of customers they will gain new ones too. Oil is safe until we run out of it.
>>14952896
Yup, $134,200 and you still have to pay to use autopilot.
>>14952890
not just sleeping though the entire journey
>>14952907
I guess being 12 seconds slower to 150 mph just wasn't enough for Tesla.
>>14952922
>resorting to illegal activities because you can't travel as far as ICE
>>14952922
Pretty sure that's what people do right now.
>>14952725
Is that why the model s has a range of 305 miles? You're an idiot
>>14952950
>model S has a range of 305 miles
None of the Model S have that range you sake of shit.
https://www.teslamotors.com/models
>>14952751
No, but gasoline is a big portion of oil's demand.
Remove a significant fraction of gasoline demand, and you get an oil glut. And then the oil-drilling countries have two options:
1) reduce output and have a giant hole in the petroleum-dominated budget
2) maintain output and cause an oil price collapse, leaving a giant hole in the petroleum-dominated budget the next year
3) diversify the economy 15 years in advance.
>>14952112
Nah. If oil prices go down, OPEC will turn off the taps until they go back up. Just like they always have done. Also, as price goes down, usage of oil goes up.
The power grid doesn't rely on oil. It's either coal and gas or green stuff like nuclear and wind and hydro.
>>14952341
Tesla's model 3 is being marketed as 250 mile range minimum, and a large hatchback pricetag. That will put them in the hands of a lot of people in a few years, who'll want a full charge in the 10-15 minutes it takes to fill a car's fuel tank from nearly empty.
I'd happily take 30 minutes for a 450 mile range if I don't have to stand around trying not to make eye contact with people while my car's plugged in. The only issue is making sure some shitdick doesn't unplug it to plug theirs in.
And don't the superchargers give ultra-fast charging anyway?
Electric vehicles are very close to being viable. Unless internal combustion engines become way cheaper to run and own, they're going to be relegated to enthusiasts like horses have been.
>>14952508
Batteries will become a lifetime-determining item, much like the engine, clutch, and gearbox are with old cars today. If your 15 year old shitbox's clutch finally gives out, you don't pay a mechanic to tear the car apart to replace it. You just sell it off cheap to a mechanic who'll either tear it apart and fix it to sell at a profit because his labour's free, or tear it apart and use the parts to fix other cars.
When the batteries on your electric car start to lose charge to the point where you can't take road trips, you get rid of it and buy another.
And, frankly, most people with money buy a new or at least newer car every few years anyway.
Also, if batteries aren't super reliable, either electric cars won't take off, or they'll need to be replaced like head gaskets.
>>14953122
>takes 15 minutes to fuel a car from empty
It takes maybe 3 minutes.
>he thinks he is going to get 450 mile range
>1200lb battery can't even get 300 mile range
>>14953122
>don't replace it in your 15 year old shit box
>clutch/flywheel/pressure plate costs less 300-500 dollars
>battery pack will never cost less than 8-15k and you won't ever be able to do it yourself
>>14953122
>10-15 minutes it takes to fill a car's fuel tank from nearly empty
How fucking big is your tank, I can fill a 20 gallon one in like 2 minutes.
Oil is mostly used for things other than transportation.
The reduced demand for gasoline engine will make it cheap.cheap enough that chemists and the oil companies will find some other use for it.
>>14953122
The only thing in your post that isn't pure fucking retardation is your reply to OP.
Why the fuck do people hate on Tesla so much?
>beforehand
>hybrid cars are these underpowered jokes, fuel efficient but no one wants them except obnoxious faggots
>full electric cars are an even bigger joke
>Tesla starts up and in one fell swoop electric cars become feasible, luxurious, high tech and fast cars
>still in the early adopter phase, but in under 5 years a usuable electric car is in production
I still can't wrap my head around it, from a technological standpoint I think it's insane, and yet people get butthurt and post hurrdurring lap times and faster 0-60's like it negates the achievement of the car.
It's the same fucking people who hate on shit like the apple watch, and while it may not be worth buying for most people, the fact that a piece of wearable tech so advanced and streamlined exists is amazing.
It's like what people say about the technology from luxury cars trickling down into shitboxes over time. Fuck
[/rant]
>>14953308
Because they've been hyped through the roof.
The only thing the Tesla is good at is being electric, for everything else an ICE is better.
>>14952112
yiff in hell furfaggot
>>14952769
its called nuclear
>>14953497
Nukelar, it's pronounced, nukelar.
>>14953308
Apple and nearly everything they make is unoriginal trash that is completely worthless. The Model S is innovative, original and is somewhat impressive for an electric car. Most people hate the Model S for its autistic fanbase that says "only 0-60 matters" not because it's electric. Tesla is not the apple of cars, stop comparing them.
Low oil prices reduces the incentive for electric cars to even exist.
Remember, Tesla's creation was out of the mindset of peak oil in the late 00s and early 10s where the price of oil was $100-$150 per barrel. The same can't be said today when it is $45 per barrel.
Hell, a few months ago it was $26 per barrel. You seriously can't compete with that.
>>14953565
>Tesla is not the apple of cars, stop comparing them.
The average Tesla owner couldn't tell you jack shit about the technical details of the car other than the screen size. Just like the average Apple owner couldn't tell you the specs of their macbook or iwhatever.
Most Tesla fanboys still don't even know the battery chemistry or type of motor it uses.
>>14952960
Real world testing for 305
>acting like 294 is bad
Fuck off retard
>>14953308
mostly because they're sick of hearing about tesla from hippie liberal shits and want to take them down a peg
it being a car makes that convenient
>>14953638
>The average Tesla owner couldn't tell you jack shit about the technical details of the car other than the screen size
just like how the average driver of <almost any car> couldn't tell you anything beyond maybe horsepower numbers if even that?
>>14954219
True, but at least they don't go around claiming their shit is the second coming of Christ. Except maybe Prius drivers, some of them are in the same class of faggatory.
>>14952112
the entire automotive industry will crash
tesla + uber will dominate with an automated self driving electric car taxi service fleet. No one will own cars anymore, transportation will be entirely subscription based.
>>14953308
I give you a clue
even now most of the cars mass is the battery
the only way forward for them was to make a battery a structural member
and make it a luxury gt rather than anything pretending to be light or small
no real progress has been made
its just an expensive car is all
>>149521
These clowns are the ones saying the economy will tank next year for the last 3 years and that gun control would absolutely pass
>>14952465
had my phone battery for 5 years now, the phone still works fine.
Batteries in smartphone are the same than Tesla batteries, all batteries work the same anyway. I don't get scared about my phone battery dying on me.
5 minutes to fill up a tank of oil
40 minutes to recharge the battery
But it's free and doesn't kill you, your children and the climate.
>>14953308
They don't like change. /o/ is retarded and they only like their V6 (they never drove one).
For them electricty is gay. Yes, they are that retarded.
>>14955170
I had a phone for 5 years.
Screen finally shit the bucket and prevented me from unlocking it.
It would lose 50% of its charge overnight for literally no reason.
Also
> 40 minutes
So basically pointless to road trip in. And don't say you can do touristy stuff while it charges, who the fuck wants to be a tourist in Nebraska
>>14952341
battery technology is getting better. lipo/limno/shit tier lithium will be supplanted by lifepo4 which doesnt explode and can be recharged at 10x the AH between 20 and 80%
>sit for five minutes at a gas station to half fill the tank
not too unreasonable.
that said, we have unlimitted oil for the next few lifetimes. only thing driving prices up is artificially restricted supply.
>>14952574
lrn2filler
it only costs so much because for an afternoon you can fix it for 20 bux.
nobody buys spare bumpers. if they have, they've completely fucked their car anyway and insurance is paying for it.
>>14955211
rent a moto then if you like doing road trips. Tesla cars aren't really made for road trips, most people wake up in the morning (after the car is charged, the 40 minutes or 8 hours do not matter anymore) they drive to go to work, they work, and then come back home which is 95% of the time a 10 to 50 minutes drive.
If I had a Tesla and wanted to go skying in the mountains I'd make a 45 minutes stop to lunch at a restaurant with my family, on the road to out skying place.
Have you ever drive 5 hours straight without stopping ? it is fucking boring and painful. I hate it.
Getting lunch in restaurant while the car is charging, is the best kind of pause you can make on your trip.
>>14952112
>and projections for cheaper batteries and wider adoption of "clean" power in the grid to feed the increased demand
whoever said this needs to fucking read a book. it hurts.
I'd rather have a proper hybrid car
>electric drivetrain
>microturboshaft engine for extra range and power
>>14955272
Hybrid is the best solution if you want a really big car (otherwise you will not have any trunck) AND you will have to pay for two motors, so this is the most expensive solution.
Big car + 2 motors
it will be fucking expensive.
>>14955266
>rent a moto then if you like doing road trips. Tesla cars aren't really made for road trips, most people wake up in the morning (after the car is charged, the 40 minutes or 8 hours do not matter anymore) they drive to go to work, they work, and then come back home which is 95% of the time a 10 to 50 minutes drive.
At that point you may as well take the bus and have a petrol car for weekends.
>>14952508
Swapping the battery on the model S takes 90 seconds
https://youtu.be/H5V0vL3nnHY
We should just make a comparision chart Tesla vs BMW or something, and count the points.
0-60 : point Tesla
5 minutes fill up tank vs 40 minute charging but it's free and doesn't kill you : point Tesla
etc
>>14955170
Batteries can forget how much capacity they have when people don't charge then properly, normies will do the same with Teslas
The automaking industry has robbed everybody for the last century now. They deliberatly didn't explored and put their R&D fundings into improving electric cars because it isn't beneficial for them at all.
You all fell for the oil and car makers intensive lobbying.
>>14953135
Battery technology improves all the time.
>>14953147
The time includes waiting for a spot, and time spent queuing to pay for the fuel.
>>14953143
So, you're able to pull literally everything out of your engine bay, swap a clutch, and then put everything back in, in your spare time, and without anyone trying to thieve it?
Fuck that. Easier to just dump the car on someone who believes their time is free and replace it with a newer one.
>>14953168
>>14953147
>>14953143
>>14953135
Found the samefag.
>>14952796
I don't understand that gif
>>14955376
And how do you charge them properly?
>>14952420
>2016
>going on road trip
>finding a car plug in station
>shig dig
Whats your definition of a road trip, traveling around your own town? Casual.
The latter being
>plotting route to intercept electric car stations
>considering cross country plug in stations a road trip
>shiggy
>>14956369
By not unplugging before 100%
>>14955376
>memory effect
>li-ion
retard
>>14955497
i don't know about you but gas stations rarely are full where i live
>>14956440
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
>>14956466
>http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
>Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life. The exception may be a periodic calibration of the fuel gauge on a smart battery or intelligent device.
What are you trying to tell me?
>>14952592
The next generation of cars won't only be EV
They'll also be self driving
Goodbye driving experience
>>14952411
>>14952112
Do you follow the news? Go look at what Saudi Arabia is currently doing with their economy. They know the game is over.
>>14954269
>True, but at least they don't go around claiming their shit is the second coming of Christ
What are
>mustang
>camaro
>miata
>BMW
>mercedes
>civic
drivers
>>14954322
That will be true but not for everyone. Only people who live or work in inner cities.
The automotive industry will separate, the differences and gaps will become wider and wider. Cars will be more specialized and segmented. Generalist motorists who can't or won't adapt will suffer from this.
>>14955618
she found a guy she liked and stopped smiling
china is industrializing Africa and selling them cars and things made from oil.
reduced gasoline and diesel consumption in the West, China, Japan, Skorea; will just free up those fuels to be sold in Africa.
There will never be another oil crisis like we had in the 70s.
>>14959027
>There will never be another oil crisis like we had in the 70s.
That was the oil price going UP because of OPEC shenanigans, wasn't it?
Increased demand in africa would make that more likely.
Otherwise, there'll never be another oil crisis like that because we're no longer 100% reliant on arab oil for everything. Every time the price goes up, America suddenly discovers 'marginal' oil sources, exploits the shit out of them because MUH FREE MARKET, drives the price down, and then the arabs panic and open the taps again to try and stop the americans from being self-sufficient or buying efficient cars.
Isn't it wonderful how capitalism solves supply and demand problems?
There's also the fact that the gulf war and the afghanistan and iraq wars showed that it's perfectly possible for NATO to demolish a middle eastern state in pretty short order, and that the arabs love buying expensive crap from western countries just to lord it over each other.
