Brakes
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Who makes the best kind?
>>14892055
for stock applications I like EBC brakes and use CRC brake lube on the caliper parts
For all other applications I would say Wilwood and again nothing beats good old CRC brake grease/lubes.
Da ones who make da ones when you slam on your breaks all you hear is SCREEEEEEEE
Those be some real powerful fuckers to stop them rims like that but the car be still going forward
>>14892055
the red ones
Anyone have experience with Akebono? That is probably the way I will go
Dont upgrade your brakes unless you find theyre actually fading during high intensity driving. Even then, some cheap slotted rotors and upgraded fluid would be the first place to start. If you wanna stop faster get better tires.
>>14892305
350/370z used akebono brake pads and they fade really quickly and lose braking efficiency to an extreme level when tracked hard
Basically under repeated hard braking situations
But that's also because no brake vents teehee
Be wary though, check what material the pads are made of
If you live in subaru world, the 4-pot front, and 2-pot rear caliper setup from either 2007 WRX's or almost any JDM wrx is a really nice upgrade. Everyone goes crazy for brembo's, but they require 17" wheels, which some people don't like.
But yeah, even most stock applications with Dot-4 brake fluid, some upgraded pads, and stainless steel brake lines will be a nice upgrade. I'm not a fan of slotted/drilled rotors.
Stopping is more about traction through the tires and brake fade. Unless you're on the track for many laps at a time, you don't really need a big brake kit.
I always stick to OEM disks. Bigger volume means money gets spent on fancy machines to do balancing and generally better quality control.
Also anecdotally I let a car I was doing an engine swap on sit outside for 10 weeks while I waited for the engine to arrive and got it installed. By the time I finished the rear disks were in perfect working order, with a bit of surface rust. The front disks, which had been changed by a previous owner for cheap $20 chinese disks from rockauto or some shit, were so rotten on the inside they were unusable and dangerous. Lucky I checked them, on the outside they looked just fine but there were actual big chunks missing.
>>14892418
There are lots of optional pads, I know quite a few local z32s run the Akebonos and like it I am just seeing if anyone on here has used them. Pic related just some of the different rotor choices.
>>14892055
Wilwood
i
l
w
o
o
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thinking about slapping StopTechs on my toyota for shits and giggles but only after getting nicer summer tires
thought?
>>14892334
>meme slotted rotors
>mattering
pick one
No alcon?
wtf they are the only top tier racing brake company that actually sells brakes they make
>tfw my car came with 4 pot Brembos and requires DOT4 fluid from the factory
>>14892531
thosr are some gutter tier akebonos. decent ones are usually 4-5k
>>14892913
shit, mistook the brand for
>>14892906
this guys got it best money can buy
>>14892913
I have heard good things about that kit, that's coming from a shop that installs those, stoptech and brembos. I'm just not sure if the difference in price between that Akebono kit and the stoptech kits are worth it.
>>14892288
Their faster at slowing down.
Apparently I brake a lot in my 2016 ecobox camry, will I benefit from aftermarket brakes over OEM ones??
>>14892305
It leaves no dust and stops well for street use
I have them I think they are great
>>14892979
Red ones are faster at overheating as well, I prefer blue brakes to keep temps down
>>14893033
Not unless you're commuting down a mountain every day
>>14893052
Thank you sir
>>14892055
Brembo & Alcon
>>14892908
Are any cars sold now that don't use DOT4?
>>14893135
No idea, but we're talking 1998
>>14893120
Neither of which make kits for my car but I know there are brackets that make the SRT 8 calipers fit.
>>14892055
ENDLESS, my personal favorite
>>14892531
Discs are most likely good, the pad issue most likely was a one-off or a particular line of products.
>not getting the most expensive fancy discs you can find
>>14893213
I plan on getting the lightweight 2 piece, pic related is the pad options that come with the kit but there are others to choose from outside of the kit.
>>14893070
North of Atlanta; not that mountainous, but gentle slopes galore.
Also, which type of brake is good for non-track, city driving?? I know my car is new, but Im paranoid that my brakes would fail at the worst time.
>>14893287
Your brakes aren't going to fail on a new car unless they were faulty
Hell, back when I drove a newish Accord I beat on the brakes all the time and they stooped the car just fine. Turns out there was a recall on them for wearing out prematurely
>>14893240
>anything that comes with Hawk HPS
>good
dude, don't waste your money. OEM rotors and aftermarket pads or go alcon. If you have never experienced fade then you have no worries. If you regularly experience excessive fade you are not going to be super impressed with the amount of money you've spent. Those brakes are what a decent car comes with OEM, not a great upgrade for track use IMO.
I have Alcon brakes on my car (rebranded as Stasis), I really like them, enough power to trigger ABS or lock the tires and no real fade even with heavy canyon driving or track use. Plus they look great and fill out my wheels well.
>>14893361
>enough power to trigger ABS
Shouldn't OEM brakes be able to do that?
>>14893287
If you're really paranoid look into new pads before you spend a few thousand dollars on a complete brake kit. OEM pads are generally designed to minimize noise and brake dust and maximize life; you can get better braking performance and fade resistance by switching to higher performance or track pads.
>>14893370
They better be, yes.
>>14892902
How are you going to call slotted rotors a meme ?
They do actually help with the heat on the rotor...
>>14893401
Slots are for clearing glazed material. They're not meme though. Neither are delicious J hooks.
Drilled are meme. The holes are stress risers, plug up with brake dust anyways, and are only for shitty pads that put off a lot of gas when they degrade under high heat.
And presumably, nobody here is making slotted for ventilated rotors.
>>14893407
I agree that drilled rotors are a meme. People buy them without thinking through their purchase thoroughly...
I have 4 slotted rotors on all 4 corners of my car (not drilled obviously) and i absolutely noticed a difference in the way my brakes felt during hard driving, especially going downhill when all the weight is on the front wheels.
Just to make sure we are on the same page here though... Slotted rotors=good, drilled rotors=bad
>>14893370
I guess it really all depends on the temperature. I have a v8 audi S5 which is a pretty heavy car and going hard through the canyons I definitely could feel a loss of braking force on the stock brakes after just a few minutes. S5 brakes are essentially the same thing as A5 brakes and heat up pretty fast with the extra power and weigh
I switched to stainless lines and better fluid at the same time I did the brake upgrade which doubtless helped but I do think the calipers/rotors were worth it for me.
>>14893407
>>14893423
>slotted isn't a meme
>drilled is
amazing that no race cars have slotted rotors but they do have (weight saving+venting) drilled holes. The holes go all the way to the center of the vented rotor you dipshits. Are you two actually retarded?
>>14893501
Carbon based rotors and normal street car rotors have extremely different attributes.
How fucking stupid can you be ?
>>14893501
Also it comes down to what kind of braking application is even needed for whatever race cars you're referring to.
>>14893557
which aren't slotted, are they? high performance steel rotors ARE drilled to allow ventilation to the vented slots in the center, to increase surface area for heat transfer, and in non meme applications like the image posted above, to wipe the rotor (no OEM cross drilled for normal cars are mfg this way to the best of my knowledge)
slotted is a meme. fact.
>>14893565
name one with slotted rotors, no matter the material. carbon isn't drilled for obvious reasons.
I personally run RR Racing's stuff. It's a 6/4 Pot Wilwood BBK set up to proper braking bias for the 86/BRZ platform. Stainless lines, XP-20 Pads, Standard DOT fluid, and DBA 3000 rotors.
I really love them, and honestly think they vastly outperformed my stock Brembos that I had on my 485 rwhp 350Z. That being said, I think Wilwood and Brembo are the best all around brands, but other comapnies such as Endless and StopTech are very much applicable for niche needs or for insane stopping power you can't find in some builds.
For most people a good set of pads and stainless lines will be more than enough. I track my car at least once a month so I wanted something with a bit more ability in mind.
Realistically it entirely depends on how you want your setup to perform, but I can comfortably say I'm happy with being to outbrake a new Porsche 991(I tested this with a friend's car and he was a bit mad).
>>14893592
>braking when the rotors/pads aren't heat soaked
>anything mattering but tires and weight/weight distribution
dude. no. bigger brakes don't make you stop faster.
>>14893591
>>14893501
This nigger thinks drilled brakes from eBay will make is shitbox into a race car
>>14893605
Weird assumption you have there.
We tested this on a track day at Laguna after four laps and pulling into the side pit. We were both running Nitto NT05 tires that we put on that day.
>>14893591
You don't seem to understand the differences drilled and slotted offer and how they are used in specific types of braking.
>carbon isn't drilled for obvious reasons
>pic related
>>14893610
No, I know for a fact the highest performing aftermarket non-carbon rotors are all cross drilled with a pattern to ensure full wiping and are not symmetrical. See the 5k alcon set up above. Sorry you can't into heat transfer anon. shit like this is >>14893592 meme as fuck. just look at it.
>>14893621
can your car lock up your wheels? then your brakes aren't the weakest link. its your tires you stupid fuck. you don't stop faster with big brakes/pads/carbon rotors/magnets/whatever. you are a fucking idiot. your car is lighter than his. tires, anon. say it with me. brakes only matter when fade occurs. otherwise if you can lock up your wheels nothing matters but tires and weight/weight distribution. no fucking shit you stopped faster than a heavy ass 911 you idiot. put enough weight in your car to be the same as the 911 and try it again you stupid fucking tripfag. no wonder you drive a toyubaru
>>14893632
oh wow carbon drilled for ventilation, just like I said. thanks for proving me right, slotted is a meme.
>also that is new to me, F1 and other race cars use solid rotors so cool dude.
>>14893638
Were you molested as a child?
>>14893648
No, I just wasn't born a retard. Why I surround myself with them confuses me to this today. Maybe my rage will convince one of you stupid fucks to use google before spending thousands of dollars on meme shit or spewing wives tales about vehicle dynamics.
or not. doesn't make me less right either way.
>>14893656
Must have been the priest at Sunday school
>>14893644
No one ever said slotted was used for ventilation, thats not its purpose...
>>14893662
It was actually a Powerslot Slotted Rotors Salesman driving a BRZ because of muh handling. I tried to reason with him but he just kept spewing memes at me til I gave in so the mouth diarrhea would end.
Don't be like me anon. Learn to think for yourself.
>>14893672
>muh wiping
what do you think properly drilled rotors like the alcon do? notice the non-symmetrical holes? when the rotor does a full rotation the entire pad crosses over one of the holes which are non-symmetrical. so whatever a slotted does+it sucks air into the ventilated center.
slotted is meme tier anon. plus drilled saves weight. its 2016 dude, this shit was solved a decade ago.
>>14893691
My Mercedes has drilled rotors but I still think you have ass-burgers
>>14893706
So does my car. the drilled holes are still located in meme-ish locations. they should be random like the expensive rotors itt to fully wipe the rotor assuming that is actually worthwhle which is the whole basis of slotted rotors, which are still bullshit. that said they still allow air to pass through the center of a ventilated rotor and increase surface are for better cooling while also saving weight. Just look at what super cars and race bikes use and figure out what is a meme and what isn't.
>>14893638
Lmao calm down. You are missing the entire point.
You are also being given partially vague information and making hilarious assumptions.
I didn't even mention he had 8/6 pot or actual race pads. Or anything even close to that.
Just calm down and go for a walk.
So I've never had an issue with overheating brakes, I just want better brake feel. should I just get some braided lines and good fluid and be done with it? what else can help brake feel?
>>14893749
>I didn't even mention he had 8/6 pot or actual race pads. Or anything even close to that.
The point is it wouldn't matter if you had stock brakes or brakes off an F1 car. Brakes only deal with fade. If your can lock up your tires they are sufficient. Your car is lighter, possibly with better weight balance under breaking, and maybe you have a better contact patch.
brakes don't affect stopping distance unless the rotors/pads are head soaked and fading. they matter zero. that is not what big brakes are for dude. you have to be shitting me.
>>14893760
what car doesn't use dot4 since ever?
and replacing your brake lines is what will make a difference with pedal feel. i've done that on all my cars and bikes that didn't have good lines. well worth the money along with better pads.
Had a mechanic i knew talk about using Eibach brakes on stock discs. He said he had to remove the brakes because the disc would get fucked from the force the brakes would be applying
Running 8-Piston K-Sport calipers, stock discs and Yellowstuff pads. Stops my near 2ton barge really intensely. So much fun on track now.
>>14893787
Thats actually a bad thing, that means the brake pads were too hard or abrasive. That isn't a pad problem, that is a cheap cast steel chinese brake disc problem. Any decent rotor wouldn't have such a problem. Thats like saying your clutch disc wore out your flywheel instead of the other one slipping.
>>14893769
That's not actually true. The better bite a brake has, through cold or heat the faster the wheels lock. If you can achieve this and have adequate traction during the entire event, the pattern doesn't matter.
There's a reason you don't jam 8/6 pot or 10/8 on a fucking Miata or even a GTR. Brakes matter because regardless of weight load there is still a point of thermal cleavage that causes seizure of a rotor/wheel. Any form of adequate tire plays into this, but especially when warm and not necessarily heat soaked.
If you can lock your setup with a gentle tap over foot to the floor you will outbrake most things based upon clamping power. There's a reason a GTR with shitty tires and 8/6 can still outstop a Miata with 6/4. Weight only plays so much of a role, as do tires. Repeated soakage or attempt at grip only does so much when paired with forward momemtum and weight distribution.
By the way, the fact that you assume slotted rotors are a meme is insane. They force deglazing of pads and add additional braking friction. Asymmetrical drilled is also incredibly useful, but standard drilled is trash(the one thing we agree on)
>>14893802
Or is it that they are southamerican cheap fags that think buying sports/race-tier pads without replacing their shitty cheap stock discs was a fantastic idea. It doesn't surprise me that it backfired on them.
>>14893501
They're also $10k+ a rotor carbon ceramic, retard
I'm probably going to wind up buying some of these, since they're the only slotted+crossdrilled rotors made for my vehicle.
I need them to stop both the 4,900lb SUV and any trailer I might have behind it.
>>14893804
I agree until the last part, anon. What you said about drilling/slotting its complete bullshit. Look up race-tier cars and their brakes. F1 doesn't even has slots/drilled brakes
>>14893804
My assumption is that time to begin braking is constant as that is a variable of pedal travel/braking system/car/etc and is moot. I also assume both vehicles have ABS and the same tires.
At that point the component that limits how fast you can stop/turn/accelerate is the traction of the tires. Brakes don't affect tires contact with the road. Big brakes are solely for fade resistance. They do not decrease stopping distance as they cannot increase the coeffecient of kinetic friction between the tire and road.
Brakes don't matter for "stopping time or distance" between you and the porsche. Tires/Suspension/Weight balance do.
>>14893822
Actual race cars have an entirely different rotor and braking system usually utilizing carbon composite pieces unlike 90% of street applications.
Actual race cars use drilled rotors because of their design layout and composite structure which doesn't stress or fatigue like stanced applications on street cars.
>>14893836
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-parts/brake-rotors.htm
But there is no sense to it.
>heat management
The holes dont help the brake pad cool down since air wont be coming in faster. It makes the distribution of heat harder. It also reduces overall strenght.
>>14893832
I believe we're starting to approach this at different angles, but also I have a basic example of braking that shovel account for brakes changing stopping distance.
Comparing stock brakes to aftermarket BBK's, stopping distance is dramatically changed by clamping and application power. I feel like that was addressed but overlooked in the comparison.
Either way you do make valid points but we are attacking the situation with different points to make that are somewhat gliding past one another.
>>14893836
Stanced?
Oh god, please tell me why this matters. Don't tell me the camber or something stupid like that.
>>14893849
hahahaha
do you understand what surface area means for convection cooling, especially forced convection like idk, a spinning rotor with veins meant to circulate air between the two disc surfaces?
>It also reduces overall strenght.
which doesn't matter. you cracked a lot of rotors? It also reduces weight. You are not smarter than the engineers who build race cars and sport bikes. Drilled is legit.
>>14893849
No no no, asymmetrical slots are only really useful in race car applications based upon composite structure, but utter trash for standard brakes found on daily use cars.
I see your point but you're looking at the wrong example.
>>14893864
I meant standard, but my phone autocorrected to stanced lmao
>>14893864
What? how the fuck do you actually think that the air goes between the holes and that it somehow cools the brakes down?
You mean, that brakes, which are in an kinda enclosed space inside the car, which makes the air that gets there get at a lower pressure to the air you recieve from the front, somehow gets in between the holes in no particular direction at all and it somehow makes that cool down?
Do you know how air cooling works?
Drilled rotors are a meme
Wtac cars use either blank or slotted rotors. Cry and point to AMGs with cross drilled rotors that cost 2k to replace all you want, it's irrelevant.
>>14893878
do you kne the difference between a solid and vented rotor. i know your car is a shitbox but try google.
>>14893878
i mean seriously? you dont know what a vented rotor is?
>>14893890
You didn't said vented. Vented works. Not drolled or slotted. That doesn't make sense
>>14893501
Hey m8, better call the people who design brakes for GT endurance cars, there is not a single one with drilled rotors and they brake at full power for fucking hours! Your idea is going to revolutionise endurance racing!
>>14893908
(adding to your point)
https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6446_6514
http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/rotors-blank-vs-cross-drilled-vs-slotted-and-warping/
>>14893908
>>14893908
You do have to admit GT cars are vastly different than F1 cars in more than just braking.
GT endurance cars don't function the same way as most F1 pattern vehicles.
Certain performance grades dictate different usages. People believing drilled performance trickles down to standard braking systems were proven wrong a long while ago, but perform best when only used in their exclusive field.
>>14893937
That being said, slotted is better for overall performance while drilled is for a niche field where it barely outperforms slotted.
>>14893932
I was just pointing out that when a car is forced to use steel brakes (as is the case with WEC rules), they all go for slotted instead of drilled.
F1 brakes, or prototype brakes for that matter, are vastly different from steel brakes found on GT race cars so it's not really a good comparison.
Steel brakes compare to other steel brakes, carbon brakes compare to other carbon brakes, but you can't mix the two.
>>14893942
But why is it slotted better.
>>14893952
Meant for >>14893937
a friend of mine works with Endless brakes
and swears by their stopping power
met up with him at the LB Grand Prix last week and a few cars that were in the IMSA were running their brakes I think
I may be remembering wrong; because it was fucking loud as shit out there, but I'm pretty sure the bentleys in the race, one of the red ferraris and one of the GTRs were running them
>>14893983
Yes I heard that about Ferraris too..don't they have asbestos in them?
>>14893953
Additional venting.
>>14894001
How? Changing the shape wont add more venting. It doesn't let air flow better. At best you could argue you are taking some grams off from it.
>>14894007
I'm no brake technician, so uninformed logical reasoning here:
The contact between pad and disc creates, obviously, material that needs to be displaced. The heat makes it gaseous, thus a slot vents it away. It's not much? Probably. It helps? Probably.
>>14893731
>that fucking pic
every goddamn one of them
fuck my life
>>14894015
I would spend an entire rant on bitching about how the fuck you are wrong but let me explain it to you since you are obviously trying to understand.
The material that friction eats away its metal. Metal that becomes very small microscopic particles once friction is used.
Metal doesn't become a gas. Never. At all.
And even if it did, the slot vents dont really make a contact patch between the pads and the discs.
>>14893952
It's interesting to see what happens when they're cross tested. Watching carbon brakes undergo stress or wear tests for steel and vice versa is crazy.
Carbon composites handle steel tests up to a median point and then fail horrifically by usually just being eaten by the brake system. Steel warps into it jams the caliper and either tears it apart or just locks up.
Both were designed up to a similar point and development branched off into two different technical trees. They'll overlap in very small doses, but overall they don't truly compare in any useful way.
>>14894021
So the put slots on rotors for no reason at all then.
P.s. I think the guy was referring to brake pads material being vented rather than rotor material
>>14894021
>The material that friction eats away its metal
The pads are a compound. Surely it's not all metal that doesn't evaporate. It's got to have adhesive things in it, so the friction materials hold together? A pad doesn't LOOK like a solid piece of something, so that's my reasoning.
>>14894027
Also pics of brakes being stress tested are fucking gorgeous
>>14893990
Asbestos hasn't been used for shit for decades. It works well but is fucking bad for lungs.
Maybe if you find a super old car, like a barn find or you're in some shithole country that loves that shit, I guess.
>>14894032
Oh, and, however little, there's still air in between pad and disc. Though if that's of any significance....It's sport brakes, so track use in mind....No idea.
>>14894030
It LOOKS like anything other than solid firm material is added for no reason (other than weight reduction, but with disadvantages).
There were other threads about this other times, in which people reported drilled/slotted rotors to be a fucking meme and someone -SAID- about a porche engineer stating that the drilled and slotted rotors dont do shit. They are just for show.
>>14894039
>not braking so hard your rotors are being friction welded to the pad
>>14894040
I never investigated, but I heard that some endless brake pads have asbestos in them because it's objectively better as a friction material and because it's still legal to produce them wherever it is that they produce them.
It's just a rumour though so I don't know how true it is
>>14894039
"Yeah we're gonna test this thing until is catches fire and then produces metallic flames hotter than a car's chassis can handle"
"Why?"
"For science. And to go fast"
>>14893592
what kinda bodykit is that senpai
>>14894045
>brakes used for extreme racing applications are added vents and slots just for the sake of adding weak points and showing off
Sure m8
>>14894065
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBoMTYZAyJc
>>14894039
>>14894065
That being said, it's absolutely INSANE to watch brake kits being tested to their maximum capacity and beyond to have the literal paint burn and bubble off of them. There's a video of GT Brembos somehwere that shoes the paint literally liquifying and being tossed into the rotor only to instantly be spat back out once circulated in literal flaming flakes.
>>14894068
American TRD RS 1.0, kouhai.
>>14894061
I'll check with my friend soon
but from reading through their catalogs, they don't use asbestos
he told me a long time ago some neat things about them
I could send them my old pads, and they'll put their pad material on them, so you wouldn't have to change out calipers and such
Dont really know if other companies do that
>>14894078
>American TRD RS 1.0,
o interesting im ausfag. just got a stock baseline toyota 86 2014.
have you seen the new ones? dear god they are hideous the front lip and rear tailights they managed to make it look worse.
already 43,000k's on mine I was hoping to sell and buy the new one cos uncle works for toyota so I get discount but I thnik its too late I cant get the old looking one the new ones look like shit I don't want it desu.
How much those brakes set you back?
What other mods you got going.
>>14894085
Aussies actually have a special Blackline edition that came in white with 90% of the American TRD kit, I was little surprised but god damn does it look amazing in white.
The new ones are gross to me as well, and they honestly remind me of catfish. I know it's a facelift but man does it look like an afterthought.
As for yours, I would keep it unless you want more power out of the box with minimal effort. I'm on my second one(not by chocie since my previous was hit in an attempted hit-and-run).
My brakes were from a partial sponsorship, so I paid $1.25k for a $3.8k setup. As for other mods? I have over 50 tossed in(mostly suspension and bolt ons), but true power is coming from a supercharger and built block in the tail end of our summer. Hoping for 360 rwhp and 400 on E85.
>>14892305
I worked for Akebono for a few months and I'll tell you that our policy was that if you ever dropped anything or if there was even a scratch on any of the parts for assembly it went to the scrap pile. American made, japanese company, highly doubt shoddy shit was put on the market.
>>14894105
seen one irl it looks good but too try hard given the performance.
+ shitty wheels just painted looks too tacky
wow nice 50 mods
>>14894113
Interesting, yeah I still think that is the way I will go for an upgrade, I just need to pick pads and oh yeah actually get my fucking car up and running.
>>14894082
I guess they use asbestos for actual racing purposes so it might not be in their catalog for the general public.
Again, it's a rumour so it might be complete bullshit for all I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took advantage of some kind of legal loophole to sell pads that are better than the competition, mechanics' lungs be damned
>>14894113
Did anyone take the parts from the scrap pile that worked?
>>14892979
>>14893063
>not getting the best of both worlds with purple brakes
>>14892305
>>14894113
I worked for Akebono here in Kentucky and I can tell you that this guy is full of shit. They leave pads in crates for so long the entire thing becomes a solid piece of rust and then we throw them inside a blaster to get rid of them. If parts were dropped they would just put them back on the line. Also I knew so many people who stole brakes. I actually quit because I was so disgusted by how poorly they made the products.
>not having flaming breaks
https://youtu.be/M7g0HwLoySc?t=1m43s
I'm quite partial to Brembos. I don't have them on a car, but my Guzzi bike has them all around. Magnificent brakes for a 15 year old bike. Never had a single problem with them, unlike the Nissin shit Honda makes.
>>14893814
then spend the $$$ on front and rear EBC slotted + dimpled rotors and yellow stuff pads
That ebay shit is going to get someone killed
>>14896453
>>14894113
??????????
>>14892908
It's 2016 even shitboxes are available with bimbo brakes btw which is a meaningless name by now
>>14893287
Just make sure you take your car in for scheduled maintenance.
My bloody 1994 commodore never had any issues with breaks, so your new car will be absolutely fine.
>>14897193
see
>>14893152
I don't know many shitboxes that came with Brembos in the 90s
![mono6%20copy[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7PUBXID.jpg "mono6%20copy[1]")
