Do you need a CAI to get a tune? I heard that tunes are like 85% of the HP increase.
I want a tuner for my 06 GT but I can't afford a tuner + cai at the same time. I'm currently running pypes o/r x pipe and flowmasters outlaws as my only mods
>>14796637
At the very least the tuner will get ride of your CEL from the offroad x-pipe and will make more power from it.
Also, H-pipe>>>>>>>X-pipe sound wise.
short ram intakes are a fucking meme
the only people use them is for when there's literally no space for the air box and factory induction system to fit, eg front mount intercooler and turbo or two in the engine bay top mounted taking up space
>>14796642
Meh, I thought the same thing but x pipes with a great muffler with a small resonater like the outlaws makes a killer combo man.
plus the extra power from x pipes
>>14796645
Or becuase fuck Cai when the air is about to be heated up by the turbo anyway?
>>14796776
>doesn't know what an intercooler is
>hot air + hot air is a good thing
ssssssssssss
>>14796911
I see you couldn't detect the sarcasm in my post. Obviously the intercooler is there, that's why it doesn't fucking matter.
That 3 degrees extra heat from the ram air isnt going to mesn shit once it's all heated to 120
>>14796988
Are you by any chance disrespecting me?
>>14796988
It still helps, intercooler or no intercooler.
>>14796988
It doesn't work that way, friend. Not having an intake that pulls air from outside of the engine bay (like the stock one did!) is just lazy, shitty design work.
Pretty much all of these magical tuning things are fake.
I mean come on. You buy these magical horse dick credits, then you can load them into your tuner and tune your car, but then to use it on another car, you gotta get more horse dick. And if your car is a sporty ish car, it takes 3 horse dicks! Sold in quantity of 2 or 5.
>>14797441
Nop.
There are many tuning companies who offer legitimate ECU software tuning which bumps up power & improves the performance of the car in general.
This works best & provides biggest gains on automatic turbo diesels.
And as for it being one car only, I'm sure they have their reasons, one of which I imagine being so you can't make a profit off a single purchased tune by offering to plug it in to all your friends or what not.
>>14797464
Prove it does anything noticeable on an average n/a car.
Of course some are legitimate, but the whole business is shady as fuck.
>>14797488
It's shady if you don't understand it, which seems to be the issue here.
And yes, handing over your ECU, or flashing it with some random ass software from a small-time tuner can be shady as fuck. But the big guys are reputable enough to know what they're doing and not fuck it up.
>N/A car tunes
The Lexus IS-F gains something like 40-50hp with a SARD tune, but good luck speaking japanese or getting in contact with them.
As for other cars it's generally around 5% gains or so, so no you're unlikely to even feel that on the street.
In most cars there is a bit of headroom from factory in the mapping and in general ECU settings seem very conservative these days.
It doesn't even have to be power gains, if I had a Honda for example, I'd only want the ecu to get flashed for speed limiter removal and VTEC engagement at a lower RPM, etc.
>>14797421
Doesn't work which way?
If u put a stock airbox on a wrx, measure the airbox draw air temp at say 80 degrees. It goes into the hot as fuck turbo at 170 degrees when it comes out, and is cooled in the intercooler back to 120 degrees when it goes in the engine how is that different than this
Ram air intake draws at 100 degrees, hot as fuck turbo heats it to 170 degrees, intercooler yet again cools it to 120 before going into the engine.
I see no issue or performance disadvantages to having one, at least on a modified car
>>14797761
Not quite.
The charge air is not constantly 120 or 170 (!) Celsius aft of the aftercooler or turbocharger. This would be around the maximum discharge temp, though the temperature of the charge air is relative to the volume and pressure ratio of the compressed air and how efficient the compressor wheel is at that particular point in time.
The charge air cooler will then have an ability to lower the air temperature. This is expressed as delta T, change in temperature. If the charge air cooler has an example rated max delta T of 35 Celsius at ambient temperature of 25 Celsius (ignoring volume) then if the charge air input was 120 Celsius, output would be 85 Celsius.
You have suggested that the charge air temperature aft of the turbo would be 170 Celsius (it shouldn't be, that's high) regardless of the temperature of air ingested by the turbocharger. That is not how temperature works.
If there is potential energy in the form of heat before the turbocharger compressor, that energy must either be used by the compressor, change phase or continue through the intake tract. The compressor is not effective in converting heat to mechanical energy (that's the turbine's jam) so most of the heat continues through. If the turbocharger intake temperature was 80 Celsius and output temperature was 120 Celsius then it is fair to assume that if intake temperature was 100 Celsius then output will be greater than 120 Celsius.
The additional heat keeps the charge air temperature high. It will not be exactly proportionate to the additional heat though it will be obviously and measurably higher. The aftercooler reduces the temperature by it's rated delta T of 35 celsius and at the end of it all, you are left with a higher temperature of charge air with the resulting reduction in density, shown by a reduction in power output.
tl;dr hotter air in - hotter air out. Inter/aftercoolers are not a magic device that ensure static temperatures. lurk moar.
>>14798880
>air Temps of 120-170 Celsius
Are you posting from Venus?
>>14798951
No, Earth, where it's pretty obvious that the temperature of air rises when compressed by something..... like the compressor wheel of a turbocharger.....
>charge air
>after the turbo
C'mon now.
>tune bro, get like 50hp by just fucking with the fuel map and getting a 5 dollar Chinese air filter
Yep, some 25 year old vape enthusiast that started a "tuning" company a year ago (rebranding shit from China) knows more about how to program an ECU than the massive team of engineers at the OEMs
>>14799215
>theres definitely never any reason an OEM would detune an engine like EPA restrictions, reliability, economy.
>>14799215
I don't think cars generally come stock with ecu calibrations that are strictly geared towards performance. Isn't it usually a more balanced calibration for fuel economy?
that being said, can't go wrong with a professional tune.
>>14798880
It depends on a lot of factors. There's no such thing as an intercooler that has a constant deltaT of 35 degrees or whatever under all conditions. You'll see a larger deltaT with a higher inlet temperature, given equal ambient temps. Also, remember that most of the heat loss occurs in the first third of the intercooler's length. With a reasonably large intercooler, you're not going to see much if any difference between a CAI and no CAI. Maybe a couple degrees. Not enough to have an effect on power.
If your intercooler is undersized, you'll see a larger difference, but still probably not one particularly worth worrying about. Dyno tests have borne this out; for most cars a CAI makes a difference of essentially jack shit.
>>14799340
I did not say an aftercooler has a set delta T under all conditions. You have fabricated this yourself, read again.
Aftercoolers (a heat exchanger) and cores will come with a rated delta T versus the temperature of the heat exchanging medium. So as written above, an example will be a maximum rating of a reduction of 35 Celsius of the charge temperature at ambient air (or seawater, or glycol, or whatever the heat exchanger medium is) temperature of 25 Celsius.
You most certainly can and will measure a difference of charge air temperature based on a difference of combustion air intake temperature before the turbocharger. If your 'CAI' is ingesting air with enough latent heat that the charge air temperature increases then yes, you will have a measurable loss in power. If it does not ingest hot air, congratulations, the charge air temperature does not increase. Decreasing charge density decreases output power, unfortunately this is rather set in stone.
Auto example, my own super poopra. With the same tract before the turbocharger I lose a repeatable nine to thirteen kilowatt over the average and fifteen to twenty NM at 5200 (peak torque) when I remove the heat shield preventing hot air from the radiator making it's way into the tract. This is without the ECU scaling fuel trim versus IAT. It is rather vicious if I enable fuel correction by IAT.
Toyota 1VD-FTV indicates injector cycle is reduced by 4% when I remove the airbox and instead install an open element filter. Not too bad but you do indeed feel it, Mr Krabs.
You are very right here though; for most cars that are naturally aspirated a CAI that most likely isn't is about as useful as tits on a bull. Scarily enough there are a few furry users here that could find some use for bulltits.
>>14796637
Most tuners/tunes assume you have the best 'breathing setup' and that setup is a CAI that's placed properly, air filter away from the engine. You can slap a CAI on and still see 1-2whp increase, or none at all, worst case scenario you lose HP because of poor placement or the ecu detuned the engine.
But if you look at what a 'tune' really is, it's recognizing the parts that you have installed as far as potential goes. The stock ECU works within it's set parameters and will not deviate from them no matter what diameter piping you have. So you want a large volume of air coming in (note I didn't say FAST air just large volume)
It's like running a port matched intake manifold to say a 70mm throttle body, you might make some power on a stock tune but the differences could potentially be significant when tuned.
Get the CAI, go for the tune after some headers.
>>14798880
>>14800647
>tl;dr hotter air in - hotter air out. Inter/aftercoolers are not a magic device that ensure static temperatures. lurk moar.
>>14800647
fuck this meme is old
Take it to a dyno tune, ya cunt
