![2000px-Logo_of_General_Motors.svg[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/WRbwWMF.png "2000px-Logo_of_General_Motors.svg[1].png")
So what actually was the point of Saturn and Oldsmobile? I guess I could ask the same about new Buick given Cadillac stopped being shit.
It's better to create competition and compete with yourself than it is to allow somebody else to create competition and compete with them.
>>14785435
Saturn was supposed to compete against the Japanese and Koreans, Oldsmobile was a pre-GM marque with HISTORY that died way sooner.
The better question is what's the point of keeping the Chevrolet badge around when none of the cars made are Chevrolets.
>>14785490
I assumed they wanted to keep Chebby as their flagship brand which is why I was confused about the existence of the other two.
>>14785490
That they killed Oldsmobile pisses me off to no end
One of the oldest car companies out there and GM just fucking kills it
Is nothing sacred anymore? 12 years and I'm still salty
>>14785490
>>14785499
I also meant Oldsmobile as a GM marque
>>14785548
In that case, the luxury equivalent of Pontiac. Except for when that was Buick, but Buick was more the luxury version of Chevrolet, since Chevrolet made the people's stuff and Pontiac made the sporting stuff. Except for when that wasn't the case.
>>14785499
But their flagship brand is Cadillac. I'm pretty sure the only reason Chevrolet is around any more is so they can continue doing me-too Ford answers and/or avoid renaming the Corvette.
No wait, I'm wrong. Corvette is GM's flagship brand.
What if they just got rid of Chevrolet and put the GM square badge like in pic related?
Honestly i wouldn't mind that and it would make more sense too since some of GMs cars come from their many branches throughout the world.
It would be like Honda selling the Acura NSX as an Acura in japan instead of just a Honda since even though it was designed and developed by the Acura branch here (or so i'm told) its still just Honda so why not just put "GM" on everything? (but buick since the Chinese have a fetish for the buick badge for some reason and Caddy because that's their premium luxury brand)
>>14785661
>In that case, the luxury equivalent of Pontiac. Except for when that was Buick, but Buick was more the luxury version of Chevrolet, since Chevrolet made the people's stuff and Pontiac made the sporting stuff. Except for when that wasn't the case.
And this is why I made this thread
>>14785698
Keeping a few different marques is okay as Cadillac does serve an entirely different purpose from say, Chevy. That said those two could be enough
>>14785541
who the fuck would buy a car with "old" in its name
>>14785705
>>14785698
That would make too much sense. Especially since Ford figured that out and dumped Mercury like the turd they were.
I'm sure it has much more to do with how the dealer networks are structured. Chevy dealers are usually exclusively Chevy, but Buick, Pontiac, Olds, and GMC were usually mixed.
>>14785435
Saturn was more or less part of Roger Smith's plan to un-GM GM. They weren't supposed to platform share with any other GM branch while adopting manufacturing techniques learned at NUMMI. Also, they were a wholly owned subsidiary, all the other brands were divisions (this gave them more autonomy).
>>14785808
I actually liked Mercury; the cars were half-decent and solid throughout whereas Lincoln is just a fucking mess and always has been. Their only car anybody gives a shit about is a half-assed luxury version of a Ford sedan (because lmao leather seats and retarded suspension technology = luxury)
>>14785705
Hell, if you want to be even more confused, try wrapping your head around why they thought they could do better with Saab than Scania was doing.
I'm just trying to figure out why GMC is still a thing.
Literally the exact same shit as Chevy, but with a $2,000 markup.
>>14785906
The GM executives were trying to keep as much as they could, but they had to convince the beancounters at the fed. They somehow convinced them to keep GMC by invoking a poll that suggested most GMC buyers would defect to Ford before buying a Chevy.
Here's back when the different marquees actually meant something
![14059_Quadrajet-Carb[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rxQ1MH6.jpg "14059_Quadrajet-Carb[1].jpg")
Saturn was GM's import fighter division that they ended up making too good and had to kill.
Oldsmobile was where you went when you wanted to make something cool and Chevy wouldn't let you, then when you went and made your cool thing GM said you don't get to make it after all and then put the cool thing into the Corvette instead.
>>14786011
the awful, painful truth
![DrOlds[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BWnSdfB.jpg "DrOlds[1].jpg")
>>14785713
Lots of people! Hell, people liked that Olds had a history to go with it- after the successful Dr. Olds ad campaign of the 70's, the next marketing campaign to go with the advent of Olds losing their own identity and becoming rebadges was the "Not your father's Olds!" campaign- which was a huge flop because to most people reading the ad, their father's Oldsmobile happened to be a pretty fucking cool car.
>>14785987
can someone explain this to me?
what markets/tech did each division go for?
did doctors buy cadillacs or buicks?
did the everyman buy a chevrolet or pontiac?
what about Professor smith at the local college? oldsmobile?
these days every division blends into one...
![hr0571_02[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/c0BGkQg.jpg "hr0571_02[1].jpg")
Oldsmobile existed to make pushrod babygirls angry
they couldn't handle any banter and ended it
>>14786071
Why do people still make pushrod engines? DOHC is superior is every regard.
>>14786071
Why would anyone support such a shitty company like GM with all the great brands they've neutered or shutdown.
I read about all these crazy and innovative things that came out of Oldsmobile or Pontiac for example, only for the executives to be complete buzzkills.
>>14786071
>make pushrod babygirls angry
Don't put it like that, the W43 wound up the quad-cam monstrosity it was because they were forbidden from using Corvette technology. Olds's pushrod Rocket engines were fantastic (and helped make muscle cars as we know it when they stuffed it into a '49 Olds 88) and they kept them updated and in use right up until the 90's, longer than even Pontiac was able to keep making their own proprietary V8s.
There's a conversation in the archives someplace with a whole bunch of information on GM's various drunken shenanigans, I'll see if I can find it.
>>14785978
No bean counter ever had to justify GMC, GMC has a higher profit margin than any other US brand, by a huge amount.
>>14786124
I'm still intensely assmad about SAAB.
That's all the reason I need to dislike GM forever.
>>14786049
The fall of Oldsmobile was quite shocking. The Cutlass was the best selling car in America 5 times in the 1980s.
God the early 90s were an awful time. I wish we had just skipped straight from 88 to 97.
Found the thread:
http://archive.4plebs.org/o/thread/13967457
Not sure where exactly it starts but just scroll down 'till you find it, it's Recaros and a few anons (including me) talking about how shit GM is and if you're a Pontiac or Olds fan, they're directly responsible for shitting on everything you love.
>>14786153
>GMC has a higher profit margin than any other US brand, by a huge amount.
Because they're rebadged chevy's with a mark up
>>14786167
>The Cutlass was the best selling car in America 5 times in the 1980s.
Why..? why was it even a best seller at all? (not shitposting)
>>14786108
GM is the only automaker still producing them on any meaningful level and only in larger displacement engines.
Pushrods have their advantages but there's definitely a reason why the rest have moved on to OHC style valvetrains.
>>14785541
It pisses me off too. It also pisses me off that they killed Pontiac
>>14786300
It was stylish, comfortable, reliable, inexpensive to insure, well marketed, and competitively priced.
The cars that came after were clusterfucks of high tech gizmos (HUDs, touch screens, etc) priced accordingly, and hardly marketed at all.
And they cut corners in construction because profit margins were slumping.
Comparatively, the currency situation meant that Japanese automakers had infinite yen to spend on QC and marketing, and they were ferocious in their onslaught.
>>14786167
>early 90s were an awful time
maybe if you were a faggot who actually bought a cutlass
>simple japanese shitboxes
>awesome music on radio
>TV wasn't complete fucking shit
>cheap gas
>no stance
>>14786525
>the currency situation meant that Japanese automakers had infinite yen to spend on QC and marketing
Currency situation..? was this a scenario similar to the Chinese Currency Devaluation?
There was a point to Oldsmobile until GM butchered it and turned it into a rebadge minivan brand like Ford did with Mercury. And Saturn were simply so good that the other divisions got envious.
>>14785435
I miss my Saturn, got that thing back in High-school. It was a 97 with a load of extras.
Saturns where suppose to be the American answer to the Asian econo-box.
>>14786629
This was the lead up to the Yen crisis. The Yen was in the tank, so a Corolla selling for $11 grand was almost 40% profit for Toyota. This is why all the Japanese mfgs were experimenting with luxury cars in this time period.
Then the Yen rebounded, forcing the Japanese mfgs to raise their prices, scrap their wildest concepts, and decontent their cars.
The it is the lack of this back swing that lets us say that China is keeping their currency artificially low.
>>14786011
>>14786019
>saturn
>good
explain
>>14785435
according to what various car salesmen tell me
they are aimed only at stupid old people who dont like to haggle on price
>>14791300
This, they were never available in the UK so I don't know much about them.
>>14791300
>>14791364
see pic related and >>14791155
The S series was developed in-house by Saturn themselves and was very reliable and moldable as you can see by the picture they turned them into Sedans Wagons and even 4 door Coupes with those small backwards opening doors that you see on RX8s
If GM had kept'd Saturn they probably wouldn't even need daewoo as the S series platform could've been built up and modified as time went on filling GMs small car needs and maybe they could've even sold them around the world as a successful small car but they decided to stop them and sale mostly re-badge'd stuff which hurt Saturn in the long run.
Not sure what else they did that was good but that was probably the most noteworthy.
from what I remember, saturns were just really bland.
never was impressed by one
>>14786525
My mom had a Cutlass before her Camry. It was bulky and block-shaped, but had dark red cloth benches front and back and a column shifter. Basically a Cadillac but not as good looking on the outside.
>>14785470
>creat competition
Lolno
>>14785435
All of GMs brands used to be independent companies that GM bought, and kept making in order to retain loyal customers of those brands.
>>14785987
Holy fuck they're all literally the same.
>>14785541
They didn't make a single vehicle on the Oldsmobile nameplate that wasn't a rebadge of something offered on at least 2 other brands. They need to kill GMC because they suffer from the same problem.
Do you guys think Pontiac stands a chance to return? Its the only marque that people get assmad over (including me) regarding the bailout.
Now that GM is making money again and Holden is ded, they could stand to bring a sporty, cool looking brand out to compete with Dodge. Especially if they continue with the lineup that they were planning before they were killed off.
>>14791627
with cafe standards, probably not, chevy already has an internal performance stable with the camaro/corvette/SS so they have little reason to make more performance models that wont sell
>>14791627
i still miss pontiac and oldsmobile..
>>14785435
buick needs to die off...not that i care. GM "luxury" is a joke.
>>14791509
isn't gmc just the buick version of the chebby trucks and suvs?
>>14791627
I like to think GM engineers are in a back room plotting the revival of Pontiac.
>>14791627
Sadly this will never happen anon. I really don't think it will and I'm a huge Pontiac fan.
>>14792434
Basically this is how it works.
The dealer ownership group is a very powerful GM stockholder. The Chevy Dealers won't let non-Chevy Dealers sell Chevy trucks, so they used the GMC name that used to sell fleet and commercial vehicles for give the Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Cadillac dealers a piece of the huge truck profit pie.
>>14792434
Sadly that is the case now but there was a time, back when dinosaurs walked the earth and carburetors were still common, that GMC were built "better" in some ways. Fully boxed frame rails on some models, different engine options, etc
>>14791499
They look the same, but they've got different underpinnings. Ironically the opposite of today where the same car is rebadged thirty different ways and has all the same shit under the hood, the General's marques back then would use 70% of the same sheet metal on the outside but Pontiac, Olds, Buick and Cadillac were making their own engines the whole time (usually V8s- Pontiac V8, Olds Rocket, Buick Nailhead and Cadillac OHV [Cadillac was the first company to use a V8 in a mass production car period]) as well as various other technologies- which would usually show up in the Chevrolet cars the next year or so.
Olds and Pontiac were used as a test bed for a lot of stuff (by which I mean Olds/Pontiac made it and GM gave it to big brother Chevy) so in case something failed horribly or the public hated it, it wouldn't affect the upscale Chevy or Cadillac brands.
>>14792761
This right here is why 1945-1969 is the golden age of automobiles
>>14792663
But GM dealerships are split Chevrolet/Cadillac and GMC/Buick.
Although they want to split Cadillac showrooms from Chevrolet so that the sand niggers that buy BMWs and Audis discriminate less.
>>14792720
GMC still gets some better engine options in certain models just because of the way they make the trim levels.
>>14785698
They actually took the GM badges off of everything a few years ago to try to make the brands more distinct. Chevrolet is a much better sounding and marketable name, which is also why they tried to sell Daewoos to Yurops with it.
>>14786124
The big 3 all killed brands because the loss of market share made having all the redundant brands unsustainable, holding it against GM because their's weren't as shit as Eagle or Merkur isn't fair.
>>14792434
general motors: commercial. it used to be more than $55000 silverados with leather seats
>>14786304
>the rest
you mean japan, europe, and ford? because gm and dodge still use pushrods nigga
>>14785698
GM made one car badged as a "GM" - the EV1
>>14785435
>not knowng about Saturn ION landspeed record
>top kek
>>14785906
If they never introduced the Denali package, GMC would have died in 2007.
Nowadays, if you're buying a luxury full size pickup, you buy the Denali.
>>14785822
GM realized it would be easier and cheaper to buy a company that knew how to make small engines and engine management systems than try to develop it on its own.
>>14793365
I used to have a GM refrigerator. That thing was a tank.
I've owned so many GM cars, it's crazy.
1990 Chev Lumina
>still runs, 220,000+ miles. Just sits, 'cause pretty junky.
1998 GMC Jimmy
>lemon from a dealer when I was young
1996 Pontiac Grand Am
>traded in critical condition for my first 5-speed pick up
1994 GMC Sonoma
>sold to good friend, still doing fine after alternator went out
1993 Chevy S10
>current beater truck
1984 Buick Le Sabre
>current daily
>>14792852
>which is also why they tried to sell Daewoos to Yurops with it
Except that no one fell for it and now they've ruined Chevy's reputation in Europe for decades to come.
>>14792439
>I like to think GM engineers are in a back room plotting the revival of Pontiac.
I like to not think this because it involves GM. The time when Pontiac were at their best was the time when they tried to find alternatives for GM headquarters orders, or straight up ignored them, otherwise the GTO and first gen Tempest would've never come to be. And the Tempest had independent suspension 2 years before the Corvette, an all aluminum engine 8 years before the Corvette and a transaxle 36 years before the Corvette.
>>14796993
>transaxle
>notably good
>>14786162
same
>>14791155
is that you
>>14796969
This.
What were they thinking while placing Opel above fucking Chevy? Opel should have been the budget brand, whereas Chevy could have taken the position of the luxury brand, but noooooooooo
>>14797051
>50-50 weight distribution and independent suspension in a family car
>not good
Calling it the four door Corvette of its time isn't completely unreasonable.
>>14797108
>Opel should have been the budget brand
But Opels are sold in the US as Buicks.
>>14796965
ayyy lesabrebro
>99 here
>>14795895
>tfw don't have the redline edition
>>14785906
>Literally the exact same shit as Chevy, but with a $2,000 markup.
That plus the fact that it fucking sells. The better question is, why do people buy them? Can't say I blame GM for keeping GMC around since it's probably fucking cheap to run the brand and they make gobs of cash with it.
>>14799699
so sorry senpai no whine for you
>>14785435
All of there are meme brands except Cadillac. It was part of the plan.
>>14786162
>>14797058
super same and super mad.
>>14785490
those saturns lasted almost as long as the accords and civics, my dad and I couldn't believe it
