If Chebby can make their Camaro lighter, why can't other car manufacters do the same?
BMWs keep getting heavier
Mustang gained 200lbs
Corollas are now 2900lbs
2850lb Civics
3500lb 370z
The last gen Camaro was very fat, lots of room for weight reduction. Other cars, not so much.
Making it lighter, yes
By reducing the amount of windows
>>14752981
The side windows are 1in taller than the 5th gen, according to car and driver.
Camaro and GM's other cars might get even lighter thanks to Cadillac and their development of light platforms made out of some witchcraft alloy which the new CT6 is using.
Imagine what Cadillac could do for the Corvette and as far as even Developing their own one-off super-car (doubtful GM would let them) but even if they don't they would probably just take whatever research and designs Cadillac makes and use it on their other cars.
Huh the m4 is its lighter than the camaro ss
>>14753028
It's also more expensive and not worth the money.
>>14753028
Turn signals add a lot of weight
>>14753020
I'm pretty sure both the corvette and the cadillac are using the same aluminum materials. Our shop had to get a fuckton of shit just to be certified to work on those two cars specifically but the tools required are interchangeable.
>>14752928
BMWs are getting lighter, get your shit straight.
The current gen bimmers are lighter by a margin when compared to the last gen
Let's just say they are nearing their 90's curb weights
>>14753020
>Camaro and GM's other cars might get even lighter thanks to Cadillac and their development of light platforms made out of some witchcraft alloy which the new CT6 is using.
You know the Camaro shares the Alpha platform with the ATS and CTS, right?
>>14753612
Yes, but i don't think they are doing what they are doing here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRFlNCT3ylc
>@4:09
>@11:28
The CT6 weighs around 3,600 lbs despite being physically larger than a 5 series. The Camaro is physically smaller than a CT6 and weighs more.
>>14753708
Well, since Cadillac is already sharing a new platform with the rest of GM, I don't see why the CT6 wouldn't be shared too.
>>14753028
its also faster lel
but don't tell GM fangirls because they get asshurt
>>14753979
Maybe tou should watch the motertrend head2head before posting you memes, the m4 got btfo :^)
>>14754105
maybe you should watch any other review on the internet where the M3/M4 actually btfo's everything.
>>14754105
>m4 is faster
>“ the m4 got btfo :^)“
kek
>>14752928
Because the people want 30 speakers, heated and cooled seats and 20 air bags, this shit's heavy. If you make it lighter people will complain about the lack of features and quality.
Low hanging fruit senpai
Why do you thunk ford started making truck out aloominum
>>14754963
Is it too expensive to produce two trim levels, one with 3.2 million airbags, and another that has minimal accessories and is light?
>>14753979
Starting MSRP:
Camaro 1SS: 38K
Camaro 2SS: 43K
BMW M4: 66K
0.3% faster, 53% more expensive
BMW M2: 51K
0.5% faster, 19% more expensive
Note that both BMW's lack most of the Camaro's standard features, and are exponentially more expensive to option up than the Camaro.
BMW BTFO
>>14754105
>B-but this one review!
Most pathetic thing I have seen today
>>14755000
>faster is not faster
>b-but muh price
loving every tear
>>14755000
>BMW selling more cars despite being more expensive
Everyone else BTFO
>>14755009
They're both not significantly faster. They are, however, significantly more expensive. So much so that the difference in price could net you several performance upgrades that'd BTFO both BMW's.
>>14755012
>implying BMW sells more M cars than GM sells Camaro's
>>14755036
>implying BMW sells more M cars than GM sells Camaro's
>implying Camaros are to GM what M cars are to BMW
Kek
>>14755009
>GM faggot fanboys
It the same argument those shitheads fall back on when bench racing the Corvette against a GTR. If it's not arguing subjectives like "mah feels" (of which they resort to reviews for such indication), the only objective advantage for the Chevy is it's cheap.
>>14755009
Be ready to cry bitch tears when the 1LE puts down times.
>>14755052
>muh GM is so cheap!
>I can fix the overheating with aftermarket parts!
>JUST DON'T PUT HEAVY THINGS ON THE KEYCHAIN!
>W-WHO CARES ABOUT INTERIOR ANYWAY, F-FAGS!
>>14755057
>Be ready to cry bitch tears when the Z06 puts down times
>B-be ready f-for the Hellcat though!
>O-okay, but this time! This time the 1LE will B-BTFO you
>>14755061
>>14755063
I feel like I'm on /a/
>>14755063
>BMW lap times faster than Z06:0
>BMW acceleration times faster than Challenger Hellcat: 0
>BMW M4 vs. Camaro 2SS: nearly identical
>BMW M4 vs. 2SS + 640hp + track package = BMW BTFO
>>14755084
Let's wait and see how GM fucked it up this tiime.
>>14755091
Certainly not by having an MSRP lower than the M4.
>>14755093
Yes, put all your trust in GM. When have they ever done anything wrong?!
>>14755084
All it would need is 1LE and it's the clear winner. Maxed BMW vs not even close to my final form camaro and it even, kek.
>>14752981
Anon that makes it darker.
>>14755084
>BMW M4 vs. 2SS + 640hp + track package = 2SS in limp mode
I think you've confused exactly who's blown the fuck out.
>>14755061
And the same faggot fanboys also fail to acknowledge the Chevy is only cheaper in its own domestic market.
>>14755114
>And the same faggot fanboys also fail to acknowledge the Chevy is only cheaper in its own domestic market.
https://www.autoscout24.com/results?ctf=1&mmvmk0=19&mmvmd0=1683&ctf=2&pricefrom=500&fregfrom=2016&kmto=2500&powertype=hp&powerfrom=294&atype=C&ustate=N,U&ctf=6&cy=D&sort=price
2016 V8 Camaro: between 39 and 61K euros
https://www.autoscout24.com/results?ctf=1&mmvmk0=13&mmvmd0=20393&ctf=2&pricefrom=500&fregfrom=2016&powertype=kw&atype=C&ustate=N,U&ctf=6&cy=D&sort=price
2016 BMW M4 coupé: 63 up to 100K euros.
The Camaro is cheaper in the BMW's domestic market too.
>>14755114
>BMW M4 vs. 2SS + 640hp + track package = 2SS in limp mode
>implying the overheating hasn't been fixed already
>implying the ZL1 doesn't have more frontal (radiator) area to dump the heat into, compared to the Z06
>>14755001
Alright german cucks fine seeing as how the m4 is only.xx seconds faster to identical to the cumarrow, for near twice the price it better be. lets compare it to the 1le or the lz1, both of which will still be cheaper. Even then You brand name cucks will never admit that your supreme gentleman car lost.
>>14755103
Underrated
>>14754989
That's not how you make money. Instead it's going to be labeled the sport GTS pro track pack, limited to only 200 units with an extra surcharge of 50 grand
![76562d1248710275t-bmw-m-dct-double-clutch-transmission-pictures-bmw-m-dct-1-[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3BaFBvk.jpg "76562d1248710275t-bmw-m-dct-double-clutch-transmission-pictures-bmw-m-dct-1-[1].jpg")
Let's be real, if the M4 in that video had the DCT it would have blown the doors off the Camaro in every measurable way. Faster to 60 with launch control, way faster around the track.
For some unfathomable reason the M4 they had was optioned in a completely retarded way: manual, $8.2k carbon brakes, cloth seats, no magnetic dampers, no satnav, etc. I get the idea of a stripped out build, but it honestly makes no sense on a M4 and I think something like 92% of M3/4's sold have the DCT.
>>14753979
Some anon did the math, for every 1 grand extra the BMW costs, you save about 0.000067888 of a second or some shit so LOL
>>14755993
Optioning the BMW would add even more to the sticker price, and it'd gets its doors blown off by an 8L90 equipped Camaro in accelerstion testing, while track times would still be pretty similar. They used manuals because hey wanted to compare both in 'trackday spec' I guess.
It might be optioned by a retard, but even then, if you option the Camaro like a retard, it'll only go up to 59K sticker. The M4 is 66K starting, and you'd be missing those 8.2K brakes MT liked so much.
That DCT would add 3K, while the 8L90 only costs 1.5K on the Camaro. Also, those adaptive dampers? They're 5.5K on the BMW, but 1.6K on the Camaro. You can try to option up thr BMW so it outperforms the Camaro, but when you do so you outprice yourself exponentionally.
I actually think that if Motortrend used an M4 without the ceramic brakes, it would've been a hair slower than the Camaro. Only a DCT/adaptive suspension/CC brakes ewuipped M4 could outrun a similarly equipped Camaro, but it'd be exponentially more expensive - and it might be beaten by a cheaper 1LE or ZL1.
>>14752928
>3500
>370z
Your 300lbs don't count towards the weight
>>14756051
Skip the brakes, get the other options and sticker goes down a lot. The carbon brakes are nice but it's not worth 8 thousand dollars. I really doubt the brakes make any measurable difference for a flying lap around the track; their advantage is in resisting fade/wear, not braking force.
>>14756164
Motortrend said they had the best initial bite, and the best brake feel, literally the only subjective thing they could find in which the BMW was a better driver's car. Remove them, and the Camaro would definitely be the better driver's car (which was hat the test was about), but it'd also close that 0.19 second gap between the two cars, if not completely remove the gap. It's not a flying lap system by the way, they just do several sets of laps, and pick the best one.
If you remove the carbon brakes, it'd be a 67K car. A 59K Camaro 2SS would eat that for breakfast.
>>14756200
But it's true that a DCT equipped M4 is much faster. It literally walks the manual M4 in both track and drag race performance, like a different car.
There would have been a much bigger difference than 0.19 seconds if the M4 had the DCT and in real life there is a very small chance you'll ever see a manual equipped M4.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e02K1pLfMeE
>>14756343
The 8L90 does similarly in acceleration testing. Still, you'd be looking at a 70K M4 if you want the DCT, and that will be ZL1 money.
If the M4 had a DCT, and the SS had a manual, sure, the difference would've been bigger than 0.19. However, it would be unfair not to option the SS with the automatic at that point, which would probably keep the gap in the 0.19-0.25 range - while it'd only create a greater gap in cost. For the price of the BMW's DCT, you can get both an automatic AND adaptive dampers, which'd close the gap even more, probably to within 0.19.
>in real life there is a very small chance you'll ever see a manual equipped M4.
In real life, sure, but it'd still be an extra expenditure that could've gone towards improving the Camaro.
>>14756410
Yeah only the 2014 ZL1 is a pointless machine when compared to the 2014 M4. Drinks almost twice the fuel and has slower 0-100 kph, 0-200 kph and slower 1/4 mile times while costing much more than the M4.
>>14756410
Oh and it is slower on track as well.
>>14756527
Also the Z/28 lap time was set on semislicks which are street illegal. It would be at least 2-3 seconds slower on street tyres.
>>14756020
muh laptimes per dollar
>>14756519
...except that's a Z/28, not a ZL1, and we were comparing 2016 models. Way to change the goalposts.
>fuel consumption
Who cares.
>slower acceleration
The Z/28 is slower because of it's maual gearbox in that test. A 2016 ZL1 will spank an M4, even with the DCT. Because 640hp makes the M4 look slow.
Nevermind the fact that the 2016 2SS is cheaper, has similar fuel economy, and similar laptimes.
To add to this, the ZL1 will be just about the price of an M4, even in Germany. Even in the BMW's home market,riddled with import tariffs and fuel economy tax, it's tremendous value for money.
>>14756540
They're street illegal in Germany, but are approved in a lot of other EU jurisdictions. Stupid TUV just has it's head several feet up it's own ass.
>>14756608
The base M4 costs 72k euros while the Z/28 starts from 98k eur. Even if you option out the BMW it will still be cheaper, faster and more efficient.
Not sure in which European country semi slicks are road legal, got a citation on that?
640hp and lighter weight sounds great on paper for the 2017 zl1, can`t wait to see the first comparison tests.
Mustang gained 200lbs from the rear suspension.
Corollas and Civics are under 3000 lbs Is this a problem?
the 370z is 3500 lbs for the convertible, 3275 lbs for the coupe.
Fully loaded 3 series is over 4000 lbs, fully loaded 4 series is 4270 lbs, most likely due to it being a convertible. The lightest versions are 3300 lbs and 3450 lbs, respectively.
>>14756644
Z/28 is outdated and not available new anymore. 6th gen Camaro's are rolling in for less than 40K euros in Germany, with the M4 starting at 72K. Highly optioned ones with automatic and magneride are still well below 60K.
They're DOT-approved iirc, and for some countries a single outside government approval is enough.
2017 ZL1 will be priced competetively to the M4 in Europe, and if the SS can keep up with the M4, a ZL1 will outrun it.
>>14755103
2 thumbs up
'murrica
god damn, all these analrage kek
>>14755057
lel ok
>>14755084
>z06
cuck piece of shit that overheats after a lap
>hellcat
lel
>>14757757
is 'slower
>>14753074
kek
>>14753020
Cadillac is getting a mid engined Corvette based car in the future.
>>14753612
The CT6 is based on the Omega platform, not the Alpha platform. The CT6 is lighter than the CTS despite being the same size as the 7 series.
