heel and toe
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You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
What's up /o/tists,
how many of you here know how to heel and toe properly?
I want to learn and I can sort of pull it off but I have to concentrate really hard and look down at my feet, and even then I end up fucking it up most of the time.
Although it might be a stupid question (and I know you guys love giving people shit for stupid questions), I won't really know until I ask, so here it is - from what I understand, as long as I have the clutch in all the way when I try to heel and toe there really can't be any damage to the car, correct? Would going out to an empty parking lot at night and just practicing heel and toe from 3rd to 2nd at lower speeds be a good way to learn the basics before actually trying it on the road? What's the most important thing to keep in mind while doing it? Right now I just put the ball of my toe on my brakes, then rotate my foot left while braking and tap the accelerator lightly for a 500~ rpm boost, then take my foot off the clutch and brake. It's a bit jerky but it works. Thoughts?
>>14651483
Who's she
how is this a thing. just fucking do what feels natural
>>14651494
ur mum b4 I fugged her
>>14651483
I can do it, no problem. Pretty easy at this point. I did struggle with it for a while, not conceptually but ergonomically.
"Heel and toe" is a bit of a misnomer. I use the left side of my foot on the brake and the right side on the gas. It feels a lot more comfortable for me. The other thing that helped me out was realizing that I do not need to match revs perfectly, you can hit the throttle hard and then "catch" them on the way down by letting out the clutch. Here is my procedure:
> 1. start braking
> 2. clutch in
> 3. downshift
> 4. roll foot over and hit plenty of gas
> 5. wait until revs come down to proper point and "catch" them by letting out the clutch
Works for me every time.
>>14651483
I suspect you aren't giving it enough gas. Give it plenty of gas and just catch them on the way down.
>>14651518
>>14651526
I'll try this next time behind the wheel. Also, you live in portola valley man? I only live 5 minutes away from you, I'm in sunnyvale. Do you go to any of the /o/ meets? Haven't been to one yet but thinking of doing it, I love hitting the twisties but I mostly just do it with a few close mates.
>>14651707
I go to the ramen touge fairly regularly, I'm the guy in the FD. I've always had good fun at the ramen touges.
There is a good group of guys who show up to the ramen meets, having it on weekday nights weeds out a lot of the morons.
>>14651494
>Who's she
>She was given the nickname "No Mercy" for her countless reported atrocities toward other show-business girls she worked with, in her teenage years, especially toward actresses, glamour models, and fashion models from foreign countries, whom she considered to be "fat".
>>14651483
It has a lot to do with pedal positioning. I use the "wrong" way where you keep the left of your foot on the brake and dab at the gas with your toes.
Don't need to heel toe in the 1/4 mile
>>14651808
>Other names
>Butterfly Knife / Icepick
>Black Maiden / Maiden in Black
>>14651755
might see you then if I ever come out to one of the meets. I'll be driving a pigfat n/a 300zx
>>14652940
you should definitely come out.
we've had a couple 300zx's show up (n/a and turbo) but they never made more than one or two meets
>>14651483
I suck at it, mostly cuz I can't get my feet positioned correctly and I end up braking too much to get my feet to give enough gas...
Maybe it's pedal position.. maybe it's maybelline
I started (badly) doing it as a joke when giving my friends a ride because it would piss them off.
these days I do it naturally without thinking when driving around.
I feel like its more of a thing you learn by doing than being taught, you should sit in your car and get a feeling the motions of it and then practice on your daily drive.
>>14651483
>look down at my feet
Riiiight.
I drive a 2013 WRX. If I don't rev match when I downshift, the rear end clunks around and gets pissy at me. I've always done it; it came pretty naturally after years of riding dirt bikes.
>>14653674
rev match != heel toe
>>14653697
Heel toe is a technique used to rev match. Since 95% of my downshifts are under braking, I mostly heel toe.
How fucking pedantic do you need to be?
>>14653713
I rev match for 90% of my downshifts, 0% of those are heel toe, 95% of them are under braking
>>14653737
>I can't drive for shit
Oh, ok.
>>14653538
maybe I will then, my 300zx will be non-op for 4-5 days next week when I'll be jacking it to swap out bushings and do some maintenance, but I'll be good to go to any meet after that
>>14653744
out of everyone I know who has driven or drives stick, only one of them knows how to heel toe, and he doesn't do it under daily driving conditions. BrokenZ32 is right, rev matching and heel toeing are not the same thing at all. When people say rev matching they mean just matching the RPM when you downshift, not heel and toeing. H&T is one way to rev match but when people refer to it they usually just say H&T.
>>14653607
Yeah, I also drive a 300zx and I feel like the pedals are kind of awkwardly spaced for it. The brake and gas pedals feel far apart, and if you brake hard the brake pedal is behind the gas pedal so you can't really reach it. If the last guy who owned the car didn't put an after market pedal on the gas it would feel a lot harder reaching the brakes from the gas
I don't have dagumi sized feet and/or heel flexibility, so I end up heel-toeing the lazy way imo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU
more or less like that, but at more pedestrian speeds. I occasionally downshift without braking, but that's more for coasting toward a light that I assume is going to change soon. Problem is, when people give you steps 1-5 on how to heel toe you can get confused as fuck. Just try rev matching first and get that down. If you cant go from 4th to 3rd at the same speed, don't even bother trying to heel-toe.
Basically under braking, you clutch in, give a tiny blip of gas, select a lower gear and let the clutch out. Problem is, you gotta do the last 4 steps kind of all at once.
Personally I picked it up from initial D and tried it out in my shitbox protégé when I had one. Also keiichi tsuchiya in them best motoring videos.
MFW when I rev too much or not enough and the car clunks/jerks
>>14653737
BrokenZ confirmed for cant drive
Heel to toe should be reserved for the dance floor. It's an archaic method that never applied to non-race cars in the first place. And now it's not even needed in racing anymore.
>>14653834
What are you on?
Its absofuckinglutely needed in racing
Is this even /o/
Before I gave up trying to learn it because it's pretty useless in normal driving situations, I would be way too jerky on the brake pedal. I think maybe the pedal configuration left the gas pedal too far back, so i had to reach too far, idk.
>>14653805
>only one of them knows how to heel toe
What are you, 16?
Do you retards actually take your foot off the brake to down shift and then reapply the brake? Or do you just hold the brake until you're stopped and put it in first? How the fuck do you enter corners under braking?
It isn't magic. You just depress the brake and move your foot into a position where you can press the gas pedal a bit. Most people use the side of their foot, it's very difficult to actually turn your foot to use your heel, and there is no reason to in most cars.
You don't even need to be that accurate with the throttle. Giving it a little too much gas is better than none or too little, since the engine will match the wheel speed a lot easier if it needs to slow down instead of speeding up.
Hell, my WRX even gets fussy about my downshifts if I hold the clutch in too long and let the revs drop.
I feel bad for your cars, you guys drive like fucking faggots. Even my 60 year old mother can heel toe.
>>14653834
While synchros in transmissions allow your to put it into gear without rev matching, it still educes drive train shock.
>>14653851
>I heel to toe my paddle shifter
How exactly?
>>14653857
Naw, no sane person drives a super high reving race engine with a feather weight flywheel on the street.
>>14653851
>implying dog box and paddle-shifted transmissions need to be rev matched
>>14653857
>How the fuck do you enter corners under braking
I double clutch
inb4 shitstorm
>>14653873
It isn't even summer yet.
>>14653883
you should just kill youself.
>>14653890
If you thought that was bait you are one stupid fish poster.
>>14653865
>>14653876
There are different levels of racing where paddle shifters are used. People who race using dog-leg trannys definitely utilize the heel-toe technique for weight transfer and keeping the car in the powerband
>>14653890
>muh lightweight fly wheel mod made my video game car perform better!
Try that on the street.
>>14653917
aren't*
>>14653917
>implying dog leg transmissions are the same as dog boxes
>>14653921
Never mentioned anything about that. All my comments were regarding drive train shock.
I don't think any of you know anything about cars. I also doubt you even own cars.
>>14653929
Yeah, this "drive train shock" you speak of is the indicator of no-cars or no-manual drivers. They literally think all inertia and spinning ceases when the clutch is engaged. If you experience a pronounced unsettling of the car...that means you shifted into the wrong gear.
>>14653929
I didnt say they were the same..at any point...
I was only referring to dog-leg, what 99% of manual drivers are familiar with
>>14653857
I don't heel-toe unless I'm trying to show off or I'm trying to actually push it on the toe-gay.
When decelerating to a stop, I'll either
a) Rev match from 5th to 4th before I start braking (or 4th to 3rd sometimes) and then ride that gear in
or
b) wait until I'm under 1000 rpm and just granny shift it down a gear or two
When I'm taking corners I just brake until the point where I'm ready to put on the gas (ie at the apex of the turn) and then stop braking, rev-match into gear (usually 2nd) and continue on my way.
imo if you rev-match all the time you're just being a try hard. There's no point in doing it at low rpms when the gap between gears is like 400 rpm.
>>14653985
ever considered that you're a lazy manual driver?
I'm >>14653819 and I heel toe all the fucking time. so either I'm a try-hard or you're just a sloppy manual driver.
>>14654004
You are definitely a try hard.
Most cars don't even have pedals set up correctly for heel toe shifting. When I do it I put my heel on the brake and my toes far up on the accelerator because there's no room to turn my foot the other way.
>>14654023
Your manual transmission equipped vehicle does not have 3 pedals?
>>14654023
I couldn't do this in my first manual car because the accelerator pedal had a pivot, and pushing the top of the pedal would just rotate the pedal and not actually PUSH on the pedal.
Ah.. dodge neons..
>>14654030
Holy fuck you suck at reading. I bet when you saw "pedals" you thought "paddles".
lol fucktard
>>14654030
>let me just precisely operate the brake and accelerator with one foot when they're more than a foot's width apart AND the accelerator is 2 inches further back than the brake pedal
You can DO it, it's just not easy, comfortable, or necessary. Heel-toe is a racing technique that is totally unnecessary in street driving, except to make your /o/-peen feel bigger.
>>14654034
That sounds awful. At least the way my pedals are set up I can do it under hard braking.
>>14654039
Do you magically have some sort of shitty amphibious vehicle that requires paddles or oars as a back-up?
Man, I don't even know what the fuck you're going on about.
step 1: take everything an american says with a grain of salt they always have strange ideas when it comes to manual driving
>>14651483
I don't heel-toe because my accelerator doesn't have the right response for it.
>>14653805
I was able to heel-toe fine in the FD with just the normal pedals, but it was a bit of a reach. I got a pedal extender for the accelerator which basically adds a lot of surface area on the left side of the pedal and makes the gap a lot smaller. I'm not sure I like it, actually, but might be something to look into.
>>14651483
I just learned how to the other night. I recommend going to a big empty parking lot or industrial loading dock at night when there will absolutely be no traffic and nobody around. Start accelerating through the gears and be in a higher gear than you would reasonably need to be in a parking lot. The as you make a turn (presumably you would be making an oval shape in the lot) downshift to a gear that will put you in the power band. Staying in the power band while braking is the goal. Make sure you blip the throttle more than just 500 rpms. I have a stock t50 trans in my car and so 3rd gear is much shorter than 4th, meaning that a downshift from 5th to 4th requires significantly less revs than 4th to 3rd. Generally speaking, more revs are better than less revs as it is easier to replace a burnt up clutch than it is to source and rebuild your syncros. Once youve gotten a feel for how to get the revs to catch into the next gear, force yourself to do it while coming to stops on the road and it will soon become natural. Watch a lot of racing footage of people heel toe downshifting. Any of the grip-oriented hot version videos on youtube will do and are usually pretty thorough in their depiction of what the driver is doing.
PS make sure to really flick the shit out of the throttle, you cant pussyfoot it or else you will wear down your syncros over time and also unsettle the balance and therefore tire load of your vehicle as youre thrown forward by the jerkiness of sudden wight transfer.
>>14654047
>let me just precisely operate the brake and accelerator with one foot when they're more than a foot's width apart AND the accelerator is 2 inches further back than the brake pedal
Fucking THIS. Not everyone drives '90s shitboxes where the gas is level with the brake.
I never realized just how AUTISTIC /o/ was. I mean seriously, heel and toe is one of those things that should be learned naturally within 6 months of driving. If you don't get the hang of it within that time then you have a serious problem.
>>14654456
Just curious, how does the gas being level with the brake make a car a shitbox? Seems like it'd be a good thing.
>>14651494
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0X0cmQAdSE
>>14654860
The accelerator should always be a bit lower than the brake because you heel and toe under braking, bringing the two pedals level.
If all the pedals are totally equal it does imply they were designed for someone to only press one at a time
>>14654023
are you even real life what is this.
Please evaluate proper foot placement as follows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU
>>14654456
you might want to check your acelerator pedal for slack.
it's easy to fix, only takes cable ties
>>14651483
how old was this chick when she took that pic? she dont look like that in google images senpai
>>14655120
Photoshop
>>14651526
yeah that's pretty much the same way I do it.
