Unintended Acceleration
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
Do you think vehicles have ever been responsible for accelerating involuntarily or is it always just a frazzled or lying driver? What would be the cause if it were a faulty vehicle?
it's possible that a bad sensor could make you accel, but also dumb people confuse gas pedals with brake pedals. So you have the dumbass who goes to stomp on the brakes and accelerates hard instead.
if it was truly stuck in D accelerating all you need to do is push the car into neutral
In case of Toyota, it's most definitely a software failure: http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-big-bowl-%E2%80%9Cspaghetti%E2%80%9D-code
Other cases may be due to stuck throttle on cars with bad maintenance.
I had my throttle pedal get stuck on the ground before when I floored it in my sable, just shit the car off right away and reached down and pulled it up
>>14567093
Shut*
>>14567089
All those words and yet none of them can deny the simple fact that if you're not a fucking stupid cunt you will put the car into neutral as soon as you detect it accelerating without you wanting it to.
>>14567089
Bullshit. The whole Toyota case was thrown out because basically all the cases turned out to be moronic Americans panicking and confusing the pedals because even driving a fucking automatic is too fucking complicated for their pea brains.
>>14567083
>A sensor could cause you to accelerate
My 57 belhair did that.
Floor mats used to be able to slide up and jam under the pedals or into the linkage. Happened to our late 90's Caprice.
> Your mom does huge burnout in the school parking lot
> While screaming
>>14567132
Still, code quality was apparently horrendous.
One time in my manual Mercury cougar the car just fucking floored it and the revs were jumping from 3k to redline. Managed to drive it a couple miles to autozone where the throttle position sensor was at 97 percent with the pedal untouched. I could imagine if I was an Asian woman in an suv I could crash but any decent driver could at least throw it in neutral and get on the side of the road
I think they have, but a huge majority is human error.
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319952
>Q. Are you also going to tell us about a conclusion that we see on the board related to the failsafes?
>A. Yes. And that conclusion is that the failsafes are inadequate. The failsafes that they have contain defects or gaps. But on the whole, the safety architecture is a house of cards. It is possible for a large percentage of the failsafes to be disabled at the same time that the throttle control is lost.
>Q. And you make that statement, but in practical terms what does that mean?
>A. That means that the random hardware fault that can occur from time to time, the software bug that is latent, lurking, witting to happen can on the right day and the right conditions can get through or knock down the failsafes that are in place.
>Q. All right. And the your last comment here.
>A. So ultimately my conclusion is that this Toyota electronic throttle control system is a cause of UA software malfunction in this electronic throttle module, can cause unintended acceleration.
TL;DR having seen software development, I am sure that in rare cases, the ECM in Toyota vehicles entered a lock state. The ECM code was spaghetti code that was poorly maintained.
>>14567063
No. It's possible but it's always dumb drivers
Toyota had to redesign its floormats because they would get stuck in the accelerator.
>>14567475
This is that they told everyone. They couldn't blame the retarded drivers.
>>14567491
More accurately, they couldn't admit that the ECM was inherently defective as that would have tanked the residual value of vehicles because this couldn't be fixed. New floormats are install and go.
In reality, it's possible for task death and bit flipping to occur on Toyota ECMs, causing a loss of throttle control. If the task dies while the brake is in use at all, the driver must fully remove their foot from the brake to kill unintended acceleration.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/BarrSlides_FINAL_SCRUBBED.pdf
>>14567519
But hey, let's blame those "stupid drivers", even though Toyota acknowledged the code quality was shit internally (referring to it as spaghetti code) AND in a lab it was reproducible to cause bit flips AND Toyota did not follow proper coding standards that other automakers do!
>>14567519
>>14567507
Fags. This doesn't happen with cable throttles.
The throttle on my 95 Neon froze open at 20 below with the cruise set going down the highway. woke me up when I push in the clutch to come to a stop.
>>14567533
>Fags. This doesn't happen with cable throttles.
That's great and all but plenty of cars use throttle-by-wire.
>>14567529
They are stupid for not knowing how a car works and being totally incapable of one small action that can save lives.
Really driverless vehicles are the future because drivers are not held to a high standard of operation.
>>14567533
Cable throttle can stick open. My linkage had gummed enough to get stuck 1/4 way open if I closed it easily and did that reliably until I took it apart and cleaned it. The only way to close it otherwise was to tap the throttle and let it snap shut.
>>14567565
>They are stupid for not knowing how a car works
Cars are supposed to work by pushing the pedal down more = more acceleration and pressing down/pumping the brakes + no foot on pedal or increase in cruise control = Car slows down.
>and being totally incapable of one small action that can save lives.
That's controlled by the ECM in Toyotas with automatic transmissions. Task death not only causes wide open throttle, but when the key tasks die, the ECM doesn't do anything to actually shift the car, even though the driver moves the shifter to neutral.
>The ECM in pink is the circuit board that has the two processors on it. And there is some explanation of kinds of thing that it does, but it does a lot more than this. You can see that it is monitoring the accelerator pedal, it is making sure you car doesn't stall by setting the idle speed, which can be different depending on whether you have the heat and air conditioning on, things of that sort.
>the cruise control, the transmission shifting and various over functions are taking place in there if you have an automatic transmission. Then this is showing the inputs to that. So, for example, the accelerator pedal sensors and other vehicle sensors that are used in that process.
>And the same is true for if the cruise is on, not on. It matters also what happens next. For example, on that prior slide there was one task that was not detected. That task is involved in shifting the transmission. None of the testing to date that I'm aware of from either side has caused a transmission shift after killing that task.
>Well, in an automatic transmission, you know, in a manual you move the gear. In an automatic transmission in Toyota's design software pushes electrons and electrons push something mechanic. And if the task that does that doesn't do that then your transmission is in an indeterminate state, and what if you needed to downshift or upshift in order for proper vehicle behavior.
> owning or driving a car without direct mechanical throttle, brake, and steering linkage
>>14567600 here
And before some smartass says to kill the ignition, then you lose the ability to steer AND you lose power braking.
A number of 2002 to 2010 Toyotas have a seriously defective Electronic Throttle Control System (especially the 2005-2009 Camry). Specifically the really bad ECTS is in the Lexus ES, Tacoma, and others.
Toyota paid millions to settle the few cases while blaming floor mats so people wouldn't want a vehicle buyback.
>a car that you can't instantly disconnect the engine from the wheels with the push of a pedal
>a car that doesn't have a mechanical linkage that puts it in neutral, instead doing it electronically
They were setting themselves up for failure. Autocucks BTFO, this never could have happened with a manual.
>>14567690
pretty much all modern cars use throttle by wire nowadays, including those with a manual transmission
and manuals are approaching shift by wire
http://www.dailytech.com/BMW+Patent+Shows+SevenSpeed+Manual+Transmission+in+the+Works/article24881.htm
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF03225064
>X-by-wire Approaches for Manual Transmissions
>>14567727 here
another example: 2002 Toyota MR2 spyder uses a sequential manual transmission
http://testroete.com/car/Toyota/mr2%20spyder/References/Technical%20Training/02%20-%20Chassis%20and%20Drivetrain/17.pdf
>The sequential manual transmission is based on the C Series five speed manual transaxle, and was introduced on the 2002 MR2 Spyder. The clutch pedal and master cylinder have been replaced with an actuator that is electronically controlled. When the driver presses shift switches on the steering wheel or moves the shift lever forward or rearward to shift gears, the engine speed is electronically controlled, the actuator operates the clutch and shifts gears.
The court testimony from Barr doesn't specifically call out the MR2 spyder as a model with defective ECTS. But if there is any defect in the ECTS/ECM that causes task death, pressing switches on the steering wheel or moving the shift lever would not actually move.
Shift by wire greatly increases flexibility on placing the shifter in the cabin. Eventually direct mechanical linkage will be extremely rare.
>>14567128
I keep hearing that, but I think that in these modern cars where the gear selector is just a oversized button, it wont let you change it into neutral with the accelerator down.
>>14567727
I always wondered why they didn't use something like this for DCT/fast auto transmissions. Would be kinda cool.
you realize there pedals that can get stuck or obstructed?
I have to pull back the aftermarket carpets in my AW11 because if I let it slide too far forward it lips to make the gas pedal stick for another second as it gets stuck. So it could get stuck for more than a few seconds. But you could just slam on the brakes or pull it out of gear.
I need new carpets because one day I'm going to get in and forget to pull it back.
>>14567063
I'd say that 99.9% of 'it just accelerated' is driver error.
And that 100% of it can be avoided by proper reactions.
>>14568106
Maybe you just need to fasten the carpets to the seat, so they only slide so far forwards?
>>14567141
kek'd hard
>>14567299
So? Every case was found to be driver error.
>>14568106
My IS300 has a little hook that holds the driver side floor mat in place.
True story here
>buddy has a shity old ass cavalier
>it had bad motor mounts
>one day one of the motor mounts fails and the engine moves, pulling one of the accelerator wires
>car lurches forward and hit a lamp post
>>14567089
kill yourself, GM shill
Had a runaway incident with my 1993 Honda Civic due to an error in the cruise control.
>I tapped the brakes to disengage the cruise and coast down to a stop.
>Car coasts and slows down
>randomly cruise re-engages and tried to accelerate
>HARD STOP!
>sitting at a stop engine racing
>into park, turn off cruise
>engine still racing
>restart car
>everything back to normal
The cruise control never acted up before or after that incident.
So I would definitely say it's possible but it's the sort of error that is next to impossible to reproduce in a controlled environment so information on it is sparse and from questionable sources.
>>14567063
I had an old Saturn SC that would get stuck in gear and accelerate by itself. Eventually it threw a rod through the block and the piston head through the header.
>>14567647
I've been in a car with this when the throttle stuck down.
Was driving a ski boat with a 302 when the same thing happened.
