babby's first diesel
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You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
took my old new truck out for a weekend away.. worked great until yesterday.. it was a bit colder and snowy
wouldn't start
killed the battery trying to come up with ways to trick it into starting
called tow truck, towed to my fave mechanic, got it running (pretty quickly) with boost (in significantly warmer temperature)
ran like shit, spewing white smoke (but i had manually primed it, probably just burning unspent fuel?)
i'm convinced it's the plugs
guy at the shop (who admitted right away he's NOT the diesel guy) begged to differ, said some nonsense about plugs being a non issue in anything but minus kelvin temperatures.. thinks it's a "fuel issue" .. maybe? but could also be the plugs, right?
this is my first diesel, i haven't had it very long
>>14424722
How cold? #1 diesel turns into goop freezing temps
It is probably your fuel injectors
Don't know much about diesels either but most problems are injector related. And they're expensive. Also how did you manually prime it? This should go without saying but don't feed diesels a bunch of starter fluid
-8 c
17.6 f
you think it's the fuel injectors even though i hand primed?
i feel like it's been colder and it worked fine but i might be wrong
>>14424790
there's a manual pump on the filter
>>14424762
>>14424790
wouldn't an injector problem cause it to stall, rather than just not start?
Excessive fuel makes black smoke, coolant leak makes white smoke, check head gaskets
Also year/make/model
>>14424722
I don't know a whole lot about diesels, but I thought they didn't even really need the glow plugs once they got going. Don't they just use the heat of the last combustion and compression to ignite the fuel?
>>14424884
1998 mitsu pajero
>>14424828
Well diesels will get all sorts of problems with bad injectors. But unlike a car the symptoms for injectors are a bit different. Usually they don't fail all together but make it run like shit. But like I said my diesel knowledge is very limited
>>14424722
Sonds like your fuel gelled up from the cold. You need to add some anti-gel additive like power service. Might take a little while to degel the fuel. Make aure you get winter diesel if you can. If not you need to use a anti-gel additive everytime you fill up. You only have to add a few ounces to the tank.
>>14424889
Ecm usually tells the glow plugs to heat up based on temps so you're correct not familiar with engine but possible could have intake heater and no glow plugs. Very possible gelled fuel change fuel filter if suspected
Fucking lol it's your injectors.. Does your truck have a diesel fuel warmer? If not get one. Diesel is far better in a warmer climate hence us aussies nearly exclusively driving diesel 4x4s
Sticky injector. Throw some 5W40 with revX or archoil in. Check your fuel filter/water separator. She'll go.
>>14424931
+1 gummy injectors
>>14424915
>>14424931
>>14424937
>>14424941
thanks guys
i am fully prepared for the call tomorrow about fucked injectors
do they really just work great and then 8 hours later turn to a pile of garbage?
>>14424722
The good thing about gumming up your injectors with jelly diesel is that it does help clear them of particulates, so eh get a DF warmer if your climates that cold and you'll be gold. Ps why the fuck are you driving an old diesel paj? Awful diesel wagon.
Don't go jumping the gun and mess with the injectors and headgasket. Just take the fuel filter out and see if the fuel is gelled up. One bad injector wouldn't cause no start. Bad fuel, timing, or compression would cause no start.
>>14424876
Its normal for a white smoke to come out of the pipe on a cold day after car was standing idle for a while.
Its just condensed water in exhaust system, it should stop soon.
If it keep doesnt then there is a problem.
>>14424964
No no no, they arent necessarily fucked once heated the diesel should flow freely once more
>>14424964
Yes
>>14424722
Am I the only one who noticed he said minus Kelvin?
If it's minus Kelvin, we've got a shit load more problems than your truck not starting...
>>14424966
i quite enjoyed it until this little mishap
>>14424979
Not a lot of diesel 4x4s where you come from?
tired glow plugs do this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udax9Qei1rw
the guy at the shop is clueless
>>14424979
Plus your injectors arent necessarily fucked from the gel, theres a really good chance they'll be fine. With an old af diesel paj like yours id just mix 1/10th 91 octane in. Should clear em right out with no damage. Thats an old mountain truckie trick from way back.
>>14424984
nope. none
>>14424985
he was clueless, but he got it running which was better than i could do.. i've been going to this shop for years tho.. i trust them.. he spewed some bullshit and than said let the diesel guy check it out
>>14424985
yes, this is what was basically happening but i didn't crank it for 1/10th that amount... didn't want to ruin the starter
>>14425003
Ive litteraly ran cooking oil and 91 octane for a full tank in an old FJ cruiser. Injectors came out fine. Test before replacing them. Injectors likely fine.
>>14425003
>>14425015
these make me happy
>>14425005
its the glow plugs mate.
non common rail stuff struggles to start in sub-zeros with weak ones.
simple job unless mitsu mounted a bunch of shit in the way.
>>14425005
Oh okay fair enough then. In Aus we only run diesel.
>>14424964
doesn't take long if it's cold enough brooooo
>>14425030
there's an intercooler turbo but i think it's pretty easy to move
>>14425052
are you doing it yourself?
if so clean you intercooler while you're there
Why on earth do you have an intercooler in temperatures like yours????
>>14425052
Remove your intercooler in freezing temps its working against you
>>14425067
>>14425108
huh
good point
>>14425067
>>14425108
don't troll please lads
>>14425127
What are you on about? Thats not trolling. He'd lose some power from losing some density of the air but it IS working against him in freezing temps
>>14425159
in what way?
>>14425184
Forcing colder than exterior air into an engine battling to create heat. How do you think?
>>14425197
doesn't the intercooler only draw fresh air when the van moves?
>>14425197
haha oh wow
>>14425211
You realize that this is a common thing to do in below freezing, right?
>>14425281
blocking the radiator is. removing the intercooler won't do anything worthwhile. it certainly won't influence cold starting
>>14425211
Think about it. Why would you want cooler air? The below freezing air is already dense enough to not need the intercooler ya fuckin dingbat
>>14425290
The radiator AND the intercooler both cool. What do you think an intercooler does exactly?
>>14425313
Radiator cool engine coolant but it does only when coolant reaches certain temperature, b4 that coolant is being circulated across the engine but is not routed to the radiator.
Even radiator fan wont activate till engine reaches certain temperature, it is made so engine reach operating temperature faster.
Intercooler cools air but again, it needs some air flow to do so, otherwise I doubt the effect is very pronounced.
>>14425108
What country are you from where people disconnect intercoolers in winter?
>>14425354
busriderstan
>>14424722
>minus kelvin
>>14425307
so why would you remove it? an intercooler won't cool below ambient and if the charge air is already at ambient it won't make a difference.
>>14425339
>>14425354
>>14425373
Litteraly just asked 3 diesel mechanics at work and they all agreed that disconnecting a diesel engines intercooler would be beneficial as all it's doing in below freezing is blowing cool air. You guys are retarded, litteraly stop and think about what an intercooler does. Hes in BELOW FREEZING, ya know what doesnt work to keep something warm? Blowing cold air at it ya fuckin idiots. The air is as dense as its going to get at below freezing already.
>>14425394
What in tf are you talking about? An intercoolers job is to below below Ambient.
>>14425409
the intercooler makes fuck all difference to starting performance, it only cools compressed charge air. the charge air temperature makes absolutely no difference to an engine heating up. it can affect the fuel vapourisation but that's it. your friends are dumb as fuck lmao.
>>14425414
lol you don't know what ambient means do you? kek
Do you guys need a diagram? He's correct. Bypassing* not removing the intercooler would blow heated compressed air straight into the engine.
>>14425442
>>14425443
Replying to
>>14425443
I assume that by "heated compressed air" you mean air that's been compressed by turbo.
The problem with that is that turbo kicks in only at certain rpm and when there is exhaust gases flowing.
Turbo does not work at startup, meaning no "heated compressed air"
Or am I wrong?
>>14425442
Op isnt only talking about start up ya slow bastard intercooler bypass would be beneficial at litteraly every other point
>>14425443
>>14425454
go blow an engine block with a hairdryer and see how long it takes to heat it up kek
>>14425451
Original comment about the intercooler wasnt even relating to startup learn to read.
>>14425455
You think a diesel turbo generates the same heat as a hairdryer? Do me a favour. Go 4wding in the cold. Then grab the turbo. Do the same with a hairdryer. See which one will brand you a dumbass for the rest of your life.
>>14425455
Ahahahaha WOT. Turbos blow hot as fuck air hence the need for an intercooler
>>14425474
>>14425482
can you explain what benefit heating the intake manifold up slightly would give in winter
>>14425508
If you think the heat wouldnt radiate further than the intake you should go school yourself upbon turbos. So you think that intercoolers were invented because turbos were warming up intake manifolds. Right. Also, not all of those comments were me, m8.
>>14425539
>So you think that intercoolers were invented because turbos were warming up intake manifolds.
So you think intercoolers were invented to keep the engine cool.
Yeah my dad's 300D Turbodiesel gelled up this winter cause he forgot winter additive.
>>14425760
doesn't that have a heated fuel filter
>>14425766
It does. But those warmers are always leaking and it cold be that it was bypassed or removed altogether.
>>14424898
Even though those Mitsu diesels have glow plugs, they are DI, so they shouldn't have trouble starting if the plugs fail.
Try some "easy start" in the intake and see what happens.
If the injectors are clogged because of gelled diesel, you will see a lot of black smoke until the engine warms properly because they will not spray correctly.
>>14425823
DI shouldn't have trouble starting if the plugs fail.
this isn't true
>>14425825
fuck off
>>14424722
>"
ran like shit, spewing white smoke (but i had manually primed it, probably just burning unspent fuel?)"
Did it continue to run poorly after it warmed up for a minute or two?
If it evened out I'd suspect glow plugs. White smoke is incomplete combustion... can also lead to unspent fuel. Incomplete combustion is exactly what happens when cylinders are very cold.
If the truck continues to run poorly, I'd look at fuel supply (fuel line pressure, look for air in the lines - should be none in main or return fuel line) ) injection timing, injectors, maybe general timing, injection pump. You'd have to do some work to see whats wrong.
If still at a loss I would check compression, test for headgasket fail (there's an easy kit that goes on your coolant reservoir and detects combustion gasses using a reactive liquid).
I've been driving and repairing old diesels for about 7 years
>>14424722
diesel no start check list
(1) battery's/electrical. both have to be in good shape. if one is so so it wont light the glow plugs/grid hot enough. are the glow plugs getting current from the relay? if so are the getting hot?
(2) fuel. make sure you HAVE fuel at the injectors
(3) injectors> are they firing? there are many reasons why they might not. oil level for a HEUI system for instance.
(4) mechanical. is the motor squeezing enough to light
the glow plugs should be low on list of culprits unless it's a very old IDI motor.
>>14424722
It's your glow plugs OP. I have a 94 with the 4m40, the glow plugs seem to fail unusually often on these trucks. On the right side under your intercooler you'll see them all connected together with a snakey piece of metal.
I don't have numbers, but you can test their resistances if you take them out. It is very easy.
>>14424722
if it is older though, glow plug relay is a suspect.
diesels NEED glow plugs for a start in the cold, especially old ones.
.I drive old vw diesels and glow plug/ gp relay failure or issues are common.
need to know if its running bad or just starting bad..
>>14425823
DON'T DO THAT!!! starting fluid in a diesel is one of the best ways to crack a piston! there is a reason every diesel motor built in the last 50 years has a warning against starting fluid on it. it's not just for a runaway.
>>14425895
If you only put a little in, it won't hurt anything. I pinky promise.
>one of the best ways to crack a piston!
Never seen a cracked piston, but I have seen bent valves, cracked heads and bent rods from people who put too much in.
Bent rods are pretty common. And since it drops down the compression even more, it gives reason to the old saying that once you use starting fluid the engine will no longer start without it.
These problems only occur if you use it improperly ie: too much.
Starting fluid is safe to use on occasion. But for long term day in day out use you will eventually ruin your cylinder bores, because starting fluid displaces lubrication oil from the piston rings.
>>14424978
Thats the joke
>>14425823
changing the glow plugs made a massive difference to starting on my peugeot 306.
direct injection, and i don't live anywhere it gets sub zero in winter.
>>14425858
Not all diesels need glowplugs. There is a handful of engines designed to start without glowplugs.
there are other systems to heat the combustion chambers. Some big rigs have a heater in the air intake. ... They all need something though, in this time period and type of vehicle, that thing is glow plugs
Definately the glow plugs. Had this problem on my 4D56. I just took them out and connected them with jumper cables to see if they got hot (they didn't). Changed them and it started quicker than ever.
>>14425197
>colder than exterior air
u wot m8? it's an intercooler not an refrigerator
>>14425932
Starting fluid does not lower the compression. It starts an engine by igniting at a lower temperature then most fuels.
id be willing to bet its the injectors
