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You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
Are you aware of the latest cuckening in the "Land of the Free™"?
https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicles-into-racecars
>EPA has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars.
>The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal
>The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs
Where were you when the american car scene died because they will take everything the government throws at them, as long as the media tells them its ok?
Won't go anywhere
I'm OK with requiring a catalytic converter and a emissions test on race cars. Idgaf about 5-15 hp
That's fucking dumb
There are far worse thing pumping out a thousand times more greenhouse gasses than the handful of project cars
Do you honestly believe this will go anywhere
Do you honestly think anyone will listen to the EPA
>>14417164
>requiring a catalytic converter and a emissions test on race cars.
Race tracks are private property. It's up to the owner what goes on the track aside from local regulations that apply to all businesses, like sound levels. Outside of making some law that requires track operators to only allow street legal vehicles there isn't going to be any law that requires race cars to pass emissions, nor would it make any sense whatsoever. The average race car probably runs about 20 hours a year, on tracks in the middle of nowhere, it's emissions aren't significant.
>Live in Idaho
Fuck the Fed. No emissions testing here.
What are they going to do about the literally thousand of cars that already violate this?
Couldn't you just say "oh I had it installed waaay before this regulation, Mr officer"?
>>14417139
Nice rebuttal, I agree with all of your points.
>>14417133
>proposed
dont care
wont go anywhere
>>14417133
>meanwhile motorcycles dump 800-3000% more pollutants in the air from the factory
>The proposed standards are expected to lower CO2 emissions by approximately 1 billion metric tons, cut fuel costs by about $170 billion, and reduce oil consumption by up to 1.8 billion barrels over the lifetime of the vehicles sold under the program. These reductions are nearly equal to the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions associated with energy use by all U.S. residences in one year. The total oil savings under the program would be greater than a year’s worth of U.S. imports from the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) each year.
Sounds pretty good to me desu. Human progress is more important than your manchild hobbies.
>>14417280
America is fucked guys...
What the actual shit?
>>14417164
>>14417280
found the retards
>>14417280
You have to be either a yuropean or from commiefornia.
Only places that could have spawned this cuckery.
>having cats and emissions testing
seems fine to me, every car should have that tbqh
restricting anything else is completely fucking retarded though
this whole 'anti-street racing' trend is just boomers being scared that young fuckers are having fun in their childhood classic cars instead of buying 30s hot rods like they do
Wow, it's fucking nothing.
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=EPA-HQ-OAR-2014-0827-0002
>Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines; anyone modifying a certified motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine for any reason is subject to the tampering and defeat device prohibitions of 40 CFR 1068.101(b) and 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3).
>Note that a new vehicle that will be used solely for competition may be excluded from the requirements of this part based on a determination that the vehicle is not a motor vehicle under 40 CFR 85.1703.
>Note that a new engine that will be installed in a vehicle that will be used solely for competition may be excluded from the requirements of this part based on a determination that the vehicle is not a motor vehicle under 40 CFR 85.1703.
>Excluded engines/equipment means engines/equipment that are not subject to emission standards or other requirements because they do not meet the definitions or other regulatory provisions that define applicability. For example, a non-stationary engine that is used solely for off-highway competition is excluded from the requirements of this part because it meets neither the definition of “motor vehicle engine” nor “nonroad engine” under section 216 of the Clean Air Act.
>Competition engines/equipment. (i) For uncertified engines/equipment that are excluded or exempted as new engines/equipment from any requirements of this chapter because they are to be used solely for competition, you may not use any of them in a manner that is inconsistent with use solely for competition. Anyone violating this paragraph (b)(4)(i) is deemed to be a manufacturer in violation of paragraph (a)(1) of this section. We may assess a civil penalty up to $37,500 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.
>>14417324
non yankfag here so what their talking about is compulsory cats and emissions testing for racecars right? ok that isnt that bad...
Emissions testing on the other hand sounds disasterous as alot of tunes and engines would go the way of the dodo
>>14417333
could someone explain?
>>14417324
Having cats and emission testing for what? Race cars aren't titled, it's impossible to regulate them as long as they don't use public roads.
>this whole 'anti-street racing' trend is just boomers being scared that young fuckers are having fun in their childhood classic cars instead of buying 30s hot rods like they do
What? Not sure what you are getting at but it has nothing to do with this thread
>>14417339
>tripfags in charge of reading and comprehending anything more complicated than fox news headlines
they cant even make my state enforce emissions laws on road vehicles, how are they planning to push this?
>>14417339
If the vehicle was originally emissions certified, you have to keep all the emissions equipment even if the vehicle is a dedicated racecar.
This doesn't apply for new vehicles built solely for competition, or a new engine that will be installed in a vehicle that will be used solely for competition.
>“This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles,” said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. “Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion.”
do you fags honestly believe this would have slid under the radar?
also
>>The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars
>sports car can't have sports parts
lmao at your life
>>14417199
1995 Mazda Miata
Pre-ban Assault Car, fully transferrable, $50,000.
>>14417354
im aussie you stupid fuck your laws make no sense because in every different state shits different and theres like 50 states
>>14417366
thats fucking retarded
>>14417280
Move to Europe then suck some sharia cock
>>14417246
only non carbon oxides
CO and CO2 emissions are well below cars.
I would seriously fucking snap if this happened. I'd lose my entire fucking business.
Fucking environmentalist and statist assholes absolutely don't care about their own people.
Regulation of vehicles used off-road on private property is ridiculous and impossible to regulate.
Meanwhile I managed to get my off-road motorcycle registered and licensed for road use.
>>14417662
What do you do for a living anon?
Are you living the dream?
>>14417333
Uh, no, it is something and I will explain, issue by issue:
>>Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines; anyone modifying a certified motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine for any reason is subject to the tampering and defeat device prohibitions of 40 CFR 1068.101(b) and 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3).
This means that you are violating emissions equipment laws intended for vehicles to be used upon a highway for vehicles that have been declared to never to be used upon said highway. IE: That time attack car that is not a street vehicle, towed to the track, and used solely for competition is illegal if you remove any emissions equipment.
>>14417686
>>14417333
>>Note that a new vehicle that will be used solely for competition may be excluded from the requirements of this part based on a determination that the vehicle is not a motor vehicle under 40 CFR 85.1703.
This means that only body-in-white vehicles and vehicles that were not originally registered as a motor vehicle. IE: CoPo Camaro not your street Camaro that you've caged and turned into a race car.
>>Note that a new engine that will be installed in a vehicle that will be used solely for competition may be excluded from the requirements of this part based on a determination that the vehicle is not a motor vehicle under 40 CFR 85.1703.
This means that only that body-in-white or non-regulated manufactured vehicle (like a Lola chassis), can have an engine swapped in from a street car without emissions.
>>14417333
This effectively makes it illegal to build a road car for anything other than showroom stock classes.
So you can either build a showroom stock car or drop $300k on a GT3. This basically kills all entry-level motorsport in the US.
>>14417696
>>Excluded engines/equipment means engines/equipment that are not subject to emission standards or other requirements because they do not meet the definitions or other regulatory provisions that define applicability. For example, a non-stationary engine that is used solely for off-highway competition is excluded from the requirements of this part because it meets neither the definition of “motor vehicle engine” nor “nonroad engine” under section 216 of the Clean Air Act.
This states that an engine or equipment that do not meet these regulations is alright so long as it is intended for a non-highway motor vehicle.
>>Competition engines/equipment. (i) For uncertified engines/equipment that are excluded or exempted as new engines/equipment from any requirements of this chapter because they are to be used solely for competition, you may not use any of them in a manner that is inconsistent with use solely for competition. Anyone violating this paragraph (b)(4)(i) is deemed to be a manufacturer in violation of paragraph (a)(1) of this section. We may assess a civil penalty up to $37,500 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.
This means that if you do use this equipment on your street car, you may face a penalty for each and every single piece of equipment up to $37,500.
>>14417525
you're saying our laws make no sense?
>chirp tires
>car impounded, possibly crushed
>blow off valve too loud
>car impounded
>rev engine too loud
>car impounded
>learner caught driving a car with a tiny ass turbo
>severely ticketed
>car inspections out the ass
>illegal mods
>car crushed
>>14417671
I make aftermarket parts for vehicles, mostly street cars. We do deal with making airboat and heavy machinery parts as well, but they encompass a lot less than the car market.
>inb4 some autist cager goes full-McVeigh on an EPA office/MADD office/Ralph Nader
Carfags cucked again
>>14417280
The race car thing is hidden on a Bill about heavy duty vehicle emissions
>>14417662
Remember the last time the state fucked with a Meer muffler repair shop owner.
>>14417739
Mutha. Fuckin. Killdozer.
Anon... you give me an idea.
>>14417711
i thought cali was like that and texas?
Only the shittest states do that here
Victoria and Queensland
>>14417714
That sounds rad as fuck and it´d be my dream.
Too bad I choose faggy Industrial Design instead of Mechanical Engineer. I mean I love my career, but my ideal would be an in-between application of those 2.
I really hope it turns out alright for you anon, contact your representative or whatever else you americans do when faced with situations like these.
>>14417280
Ah yes! The tyranny of the group. It's better for most of you, thus FUCK the individual. Racing gives us interesting new materials, innovative systems and more durable parts for our street cars. Environmentalism brings us higher prices, slower and heavier cars and duller lives. Guess we should all take up non manchild hobbies like whatever you enjoy. Guess we should all be environmentally responsible like you and go plant trees on the weekend out of the back of our prius.
See, I can use that fallacy too. The one where you assert that whatever you're doing is the mature thing to do and whatever I'm doing is childish without actually presenting evidence.
Furthermore China gives no shits about the environment so all your whinging is in vain.
there isn't anything on the actual epa website about this, so it could just be bullshit clickbait
>>14417198
Yes there is. I live in boise.
ADA and Canyon have emissions testing.
Its the only reason i dont own an Rx7
>>14417783
>http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=EPA-HQ-OAR-2014-0827-0002
No, sadly, not clickbait.
>>14417776
Fortunately for you your degree means next to nothing, if not 100% nothing, as to where you will land in the field if you really want to work on race cars
>>14417811
My country differs vastly from USA, but I will stay positive and start looking what to do/where to work to reach my goals. If everything goes smoothly, I should graduate by this december. Yikes.
>>14417449
No lowballers I know what I got
>>14417796
seems kind of superfluous, CAFE standard is going to massively slash carbon emissions by orders of magnitude more than chasing enthusiasts around.
>>14417280
>CAR EMISSIONS ARE BAAAAAAADDDDD!!!!
>NUCLEAR FUSION AND COAL POWER IS GOOOOOOOOD!!!!
>>>/cuckland/
>>14417872
Well, we all hope that this will fall flat, but it won't if we don't speak up and tell the EPA that this overreach won't be tolerated.
>>14417559
>only the important things
>>14417916
>NUCLEAR FUSION
actually that's correct as fuck
nuclear power is the single best form of power along with solar, it's just that the simpsons singlehandedly scared us out of using it
HAHAHAHAHAH NO FUCKING FUN ALLOWED
1984 WHEN
>>14417711
>chirp tires
>fined*
>blow of valve
>youre a faggot, defect*
>rev engine too loud
>car impouned (potentially)
CORRECT
>learner caught driving a car with a tiny ass turbo
>perfectly legal*
>car inspections out the ass
wrong
>illegal mods
>youre a faggot, defect*
>>14417916
It's fission dumbass.
>>14417984
Dumb ass*
>>14417996
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Dumbass
>>14417984
>fission
This isn't the 1950s anymore. Fusion is the next big thing.
>>14417772
>Texas
>like that
KEK, and KEK some more.
>>14417197
Car emissions arent significant either way they make up 3% of all that polution bullshit, its coal plants and shit but the government prefer to make someone else the enemy that they dont profit from
>>14417164
>>14417280
kill yourselves
>>14417333
Sounds like this is aimed at diesel fags desu
>>14417772
>texas and cali like that
the fuck are you snorting you fuck face
>>14418242
>yanks not handling bantz
>>14417916
Thorium reactors or some shit like that are supposedly the ideal energy, actually.
>>14417280
>over the lifetime of the vehicle
>us residents in one year
So it would make zero difference is what the EPA is saying?
>>14417280
Wait, how the fuck is a cat supposed to save on fuel?
>>14417916
Nuclear is the GOAT power plant type, especially when you have plenty of land to put them on.
>>14417955
I think Chernobyl and 3 mile island had more to do with it m8.
>>14418298
>Thorium
>ITT: /o/ overreacts at another meaningless proposal
>>14417701
lol, look at this pleeb, he thinks he is people. Nobody cares that you can't afford a GT3. Work harder, be yourself or do whatever crap we are telling your class to do in order to believe you have some chance to enjoy your life.
Protip: you are never going to make it. The system is built so that whenever you make an inch of progress towards my wealth I move a mile father ahead.
>>14418457
>acting rich online
Kek
>>14417333
so a tune is now illegal
>>14418457
>pleeb
>he is people
>"we"
are you autistic
>>14417246
I seriously doubt that. Even from air cooled bikes.
sema posted a comment on this, looks like they will be fighting it
>American Bureaucracy
Kek
>>14418567
6/13
>>14418568
>aussiecunt tripfag making fun of another country
>>14418574
>>aussiecunt tripfag making fun of another country
yes and?
>>14418583
8/13
>>14418586
stones and glass houses m8
>>14418592
at least we're not canadacucks
>>14418596
10/13
>>14418602
11/13
>>14418609
12/13
>>14418613
13/13
I hope this shit doesn't pass as pretty much any performance modding will become illegal
>>14418596
>Last paragraph
>"I would say to the gentleman they would not come under the provisions of this act, because the act deals only with automobiles used on our roads in everyday use."
>>14417198
>live in Tennessee
Only 6 or so counties have emissions. God bless this poor ass state
>>14418711
It means this doesn't affect cars that aren't driven on the public roads, you dunce.
>>14418775
Wrong
he's quoting the clarification on the clean air act, signed into law in 1970, to further his argument. If you had read it the author was trying to show that the bill wasn't meant for vehicles manufactured or MODIFIED to be race cars. This whole thing is about taking a stock street car and modding it to become a race car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rcmeMxxGYw
>tfw an american talks to you about freedom
>>14418830
>watch the full clips of all these
>they all deserve a proper beating
kek.
So this is a thing.
"(5) Importation. You may not import an uncertified engine or piece of equipment if it is defined to be new in the standard-setting part with a model year for which emission standards applied. Anyone violating this paragraph (b)(5) is deemed to be a manufacturer in violation of paragraph (a)(1) of this section. We may assess a civil penalty up to $37,500 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.
Note the following: The definition of new is broad for imported engines/equipment; uncertified engines and equipment (including used engines and equipment) are generally considered to be new when imported."
Say goodbye to your imported engines of any year.
On the part about banning certain parts for road cars, think about it, it could be good. Stance and kids in it just for the scene or cool points would die out, and all that would be left are the few willing to risk jail time or pay triple on the black market for those new forged pistols. We'll be the new outlaws.
>>14420209
Stance guys just want suspension parts, I don't think they would be affected. They can just bullshit their internals and hp levels because the cars all move at the speed of scrape anyway.
>>14417811
I have a question for you. Right now i'm doing a bachelor's in computer science. it's okay but it's not something i really like. Now I got an offer to work with a race team that participates in a few series (wtcc, dakar etc) to handle their media stuff.
I always wanted to work in motorsports so do you think it's worth a shot?
>>14417342
Yeah. It's like trying to force gokarts and off-road dune buggies into emissions testing.
>>14420224
Try explaining that to cops once they've seized your car and hold it for a year and a half before they deem your modifications legal, then mistakenly crush it before you get it back.
The govt don't give a shit if its legal or your either gonna pay or they'll make your life a living hell even if they're in the wrong
Sign the Petition
===============
https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-prevent-the-epa-from-banning-vehicle-modification
===============
>>14420538
I was just saying this wouldn't deter stancefags.
So a shitty cai and exhaust is illegal now?
so let me get this straight.
I can't change the emissions of a certified engine or car.
i can only put non certified engines in non certified cars.
>>14418089
It's much higher than 3%.
>>14417133
>proposed
>>14417133
>Epa
>Proposed
>Would
Not worried.
Feels like /k/ in here.
Enjoy your executive branch shitting on you and most of your fellow hobbyists being scumbag collaborators.
>>14423187
>Feels like /k/ in here
Feels like everywhere now.
I'm an RC and sUAS ("drone") hobbyist, and after decades of safe operation the FAA went and made a national registry for hobbyists 13 and up. As in, if you're a teenager and want to fly a model plane at the park, you need to register with the government now.
We have to be running out of things to regulate by now.
>>14423421
Fucking christ, really? Why? Just why?
>>14418089
Citation needed.
>>14423472
Idiots kept flying drones into forest fires, stadiums, government buildings, etc. Also, drones under half a pound, which is the size most toy drones 13 year olds have, don't have to be registered.
>Literally killing homologation
>>14423623
>Idiots kept flying drones into forest fires, stadiums, government buildings, etc
Except almost all of that is media hype. There have only been a couple of incidents between full-size aircraft and model aircraft in the decades the hobby has been around. Birds are much heavier and far more dangerous.
>forest fires
Slope gliders, not drones. They did not know fire fighting aircraft were operating until after the complaint was called in.
>government buildings
If you mean the incident in DC, that was a government employee.
And then there are the thousands of "drone sightings" that turn out to be things such as balloons, full-size aircraft, and birds. It's the new UFO, every unknown gets reported as a drone now.
>which is the size most toy drones 13 year olds have
RC plane. Everyone seems to think drone=quadcopter, but this applies to model aircraft of all sorts. Many trainers weigh more than a half pound. The weight limit only exempts micros and small park fliers. And good luck trying to explain to local law enforcement how your "drone" is under the weight limit when they demand your papers (no exaggeration, the FAA requires you to carry your registration and have it ready to present to law enforcement whenever you fly).
I can't even begin to explain how upset I am government regulation is taking away a hobby that has taught me so much and existed safely for so long.
>>14423712
I hope it doesn't ever happen to R/C cars, I'd like to own a 1/5 scale gas-powered to futz around with in the future.
>>14423737
ayy
fucking top kek
ameribubblers BTFO
I hope it passes, the shitposting will be incredible
>>14417280
just look at all that triggering
fantastic job anon
>>14417787
>he doesn't pay off the emissions tester with a 6 pack
lel, I know multiple people there who do crazy stuff and just slip a 20 to the test facility bros
>>14423966
>living in a state with emissions checks
>>14417280
>all that shit from stopping fast cars
Sheeit, whats next? Banning all golf because the courses consume a shitload of water?
>>14418437
If you don't fight they eventually will get this passed
It's like gays and trannies. At first it's all no matter and laugh, but then before you realize they can get married, they will force your children to learn how to act like a weirdo cross dressing faggot
>>14427340
You were doing so well until the second paragraph.
>>14427313
No, because that would actually make sense.
>>14427365
>tranny detected
>>14427365
There is literately nothing wrong with what I said. I don't hate gays and trans at all. I'm just pointing out that certain people you just cannot give in.
You give them an inch they'd take a mile
And again ironically, gays rights at least is a form of "freeing". Car restriction is the complete opposite of freedom.
>>14427390
I'm just saying I don't think they're going to be forcing or imposing their mentality on others.
>>14427621
Different anon, but the whole "transphobia" thing and pronoun sperging and "stop gendering genitals" is completely faggotrocious. I'll never be used to the idea that there's people who want to call a dude with tits a "she" and claim that a guy can fuck him and still be straight.
>>14427645
Yeah, pronoun sperging is going too far, but it's not like they're saying "you should be dressing like a chick"
SIGN IT
==================================================================================================
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/tell-epa-withdraw-its-proposal-prohibit-conversion-vehicles-racecars-0
==================================================================================================
>>14427670
These don't do anything you fucking morons
>>14417772
No in California you can drive 100 on the freeway and no one cares because everyone, even the cops are doing 100 too
>>14427817
We have places to go and people to see yesterday here, well any coast is like that kinda though
>>14418089
>they make up 3% of all that polution
Yeah, because car emissions are regulated, dumbass.
>>14417235
Complacency kills anon
>>14427817
>everyone drives 100
The cruising speed in the slow lane can get up to 75 or 80 but anyone going 100+ is going to stand out like a sore thumb, especially with any sort of traffic. Also in traffic court here 100+ speeding ticket is mandatory license suspension, no ifs ands or buts about it.
>>14427817
I've rarely ever seen anyone go that fast in California. There's too much fucking traffic and the drivers are too shitty to handle that kind of speed. I usually keep it around 85 there and I past 90% of traffic.
>>14417733
I cannot comment on wither I support this our not
>>14418755
>Tennessee
>poor
you probably live in Memphis and not Nashville faggot
>>14417662
Make sure you let to your representatives know that fact
>>14423829
Shut up or we'll bomb your country
Catalytic converters don't hurt horsepower.
Ban Assault Cars.
All these rules are ridiculous as long as car makers are still allowed to sell practically anything as a 'light truck' with no penalties to the owners of unnecessarily heavy vehicles.
How about a Kei car style regulatory group?
The real reason this is happening is because car enthusiasts are practically defensless against the EPA compared to something like the coal industry. The EPA tries to go after the major polluters but gets btfo by all the politicians in Congress that get their palms greased by big business (aka "campaign contributions") so the EPA turns around and goes after the little guy.
>>14417133
>EPA has proposed a regulation
I seriously don't see this passing
>>14417772
cali has smog, thats it. and texas doesnt gve a fuck about cars, ive seen full on drag cars, parachutes and all on the road here lol
>>14430866
But the chilluns will surely be smooshed by the neighborhood full of f350 diesel grocery getters.
>>14417164
The problem isn't catalytic converters, it's ECUs. You can't build a decent racecar if you can't tune it.
>>14417197
Catalytic converters don't hurt powa. They are required for some rally caraa and they make no difference at all.
>>14417955
In terms of deaths per kWh, nuclear is far and away the best (this includes Chernobyl but not Fukushima, but I doubt that's enough to change it) and solar is the most dangerous by an order of magnitude.
>>14432897
How the fuck does solar hurt somebody? A guy falls off the roof installing the panels?
>>14430543
enjoy your mexican refigees after that
>>14432908
Presumably, yes. There's also quite a bit of maintenance required to keep photovoltaic working at optimal efficiency.
>>14417280
I bet you posted that from your damn phone that uses rare earth elements coming from heaving poluting mines. The irony is baffling.
>>14427670
>>14427707
could you not tell he was a moron by the retarded equal sign formatting
Tbh if all they are banning are catless downpipes and/or straight pipes, something shitty like that, I don't think I really care.
Though, I could see a dangerous give-a-mouse-a-cookie situation going forward.
Well there's still Kit cars like
Lotus 7 replicas
AC Cobra replicas
Porsche 356 replicas
and more
>>14433655
yeah well no real race car builder would care about that either if that's all it did, but the problem is it's a gateway into a fucking shit storm of regulation.
and because know-nothing politicians are writing it you can believe it's going to be full of holes and retarded open ended laws that can be taken any number of ways and expanded on in the future
not to mention it's just an incredible infringement on the freedom to do what you want with that which you own.
it's a blatant over reach of government.
>>14432888
>Catalytic converters don't hurt powa
keep dreaming retard
